The MOST Powerful Sci-Fi Universe?

Silver Paladin · Post by **Silver Paladin** » 2002-08-27 06:13am

LMSx wrote:
Silver Paladin wrote:Who are these Living Tribunal guys?? *snip*
Yet one more reason why I don't read anything DC or Marvel related anymore. Everything just keeps scaling up and up and up and up and up and up and up, until any super-enemy is counter-acted by an even more powerful person who has control over every single aspect of every single universe.......

Yeesh.

True, but TLT is there to maintain balance. He is RARELY used. Personally, I think he's used as a "reset" button in the case the Marvel authors accidentally made a super powerful character that would just completely own everyone else for free (ie. Thanos w/ IG). This gives them a way out, and lets them remove the characters super abilities while remaining in continuity.

Remember, he's a glorified judge; he does not participate unless the balance of the universe is greatly threatened (and sometimes, even then, since he didn't interefere with Thanos kicking the crap out of Eternity because he thought it was Darwinism at work). BUT...when you DO mess with him...expect an ass kicking. =D

Darth_Shinji · Post by **Darth_Shinji** » 2002-08-27 08:13am

[quote="Silver Paladin"][quote="Simon H.Johansen"]

He has absolute control of the 6 aspects of our universe. By absolute, I mean even if someone else has power over that aspect, he could choose to stop that person from using it (ie. what he did to Thanos w/ IG...since IG also granted the user powers over the 6 aspects)

Space (manifests itself in being able to be anywhere at anytime)
Time (manifests itself in Time Travel)
Reality (manifests itself in Immortality, since Death is a reality of life)
Power (Raw power)
Mind (Mind control, psychic powers, etc.)
Soul (Never seen this do anything).

quote] How do you get that? He has the power to stop the ig from working when no one is using it. But when Adam warlock challenged him with it, He said it would result in a war that would destroy this universe. Doesn't sound like absolute control to me.

Silver Paladin · Post by **Silver Paladin** » 2002-08-27 08:46am

If that was true, then when TLT ordered Adam Warlock to break apart the IG, he would not have to comply.

Instead, he does and kept the Soul Gem and gave away the rest of the gems to the Infinity Watch (in fact, Thanos has the Reality Gem).

Plus, when Warlock released the planet busting wave across the galaxy, TLT was able to neutralize it.

How much of that statement was simply an idle threat, and how much of that statement is a limitation of the comic artform would need to be discussed. Because if TLT (or Thanos for that matter), decided to use their full powers, Marvel would be a VERY boring place. Can you imagine a place where the entire premise is to go back in time and kill the mother of your archnemesis before he as born? That would really suck.

Darth_Shinji · Post by **Darth_Shinji** » 2002-08-27 09:03am

Silver Paladin wrote:If that was true, then when TLT ordered Adam Warlock to break apart the IG, he would not have to comply.

Thats right, he didn't have too. He complied because to do otherwise was to start a war with LT, which would of destoried the universe.

Instead, he does and kept the Soul Gem and gave away the rest of the gems to the Infinity Watch (in fact, Thanos has the Reality Gem).

Yes, unlike thanos, he was judged unworthy of being the supreme being. But he could of resisted the verdict, Thats was stated.

Plus, when Warlock released the planet busting wave across the galaxy, TLT was able to neutralize it.

When did this happen? Are you sure you are not mistaking it for Thanos's planetbusting wave? That was nuetilized by Adam warlock using the IG.

How much of that statement was simply an idle threat, and how much of that statement is a limitation of the comic artform would need to be discussed. Because if TLT (or Thanos for that matter), decided to use their full powers, Marvel would be a VERY boring place. Can you imagine a place where the entire premise is to go back in time and kill the mother of your archnemesis before he as born? That would really suck.[/quote] What do you mean? The trail was rather clear on the whole matter. And they are people in the MU that are stated to be complealty out of infinty's and also possibly TLT's control as well. Hell, PIP is outside of there control.

Thats one of the reasons I like the MU, even the Gods are powerless on occasion to stop the badguy.

Silver Paladin · Post by **Silver Paladin** » 2002-08-27 09:39am

Pip the Troll? He's most definitely not immune to their powers as Thanos trapped him in the Soul Gem. Warlock freed him, but he's not immune from their powers.

Also, during the Infinity War versus Magus, the Living Tribunal disabled the Infinity Gauntlet so that not even Adam Warlock could use it. That was the reason why Magus managed to capture the IG.

If Adam Warlock really had the power to challange TLT, then TLT shouldn't have been able to disable the Gauntlet when Warlock needed it the most.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2002-08-27 11:28am

Rathark wrote:It's been a while since I last watched Dr Who. Didn't the Sontarans successfully invade Gallifrey at once stage? Were they tipped off by a traitorous Timelord? This would imply that the Sontarans are almost as advanced as the Timelords themselves, with their main advantages being military experience and opportunism.

Were the Daleks and Cybermen a serious threat to the Timelords, or just to the Doctor?

In "The Pyramids of Mars", the Doctor was totally freaked out by the power of Suhtek. He said that once Suhtek is released, there wouldn't be a speck in the Galaxy that could stop him (or something to that effect). Suhtek's race, the Osirians (basically the Egyptian gods) sound like close rivals or even superiors to the Timelords. Could they have specialised in psionic powers just as the Timelords specialised in time travel?

There seemed to be a handful of other beings more powerful than the Timelords, notably the White and Black Guardians of Time.

I also seem to recall an episode where an ancient society of separatist Timelords reveal that they have been holding the universe together with their mathematical equations. The Master distracts them, and a huge chunk of the universe disappears. These beings (I think they lived in a city called Logopolis) would surely qualify as among TV SF's most powerful races.

Daleks; Yes, Eventually, they did send the doctor back to prevent their creation, but he had an attack of morals.

Cybermen; not really

Suhtek; He's a god, they don't really count do they? besides he is contained, and the rest of his species are nowhere to be found.

Darth_Shinji · Post by **Darth_Shinji** » 2002-08-27 12:27pm

Silver Paladin wrote:Pip the Troll? He's most definitely not immune to their powers as Thanos trapped him in the Soul Gem. Warlock freed him, but he's not immune from their powers.
I never said immune to there powers, I said outside of there control. There is actually a handful of people in the marvel universe where no one (eternity, ect) can predicete there movements. Pip is one such being (All of the Infitity watch are actaully).

Also, during the Infinity War versus Magus, the Living Tribunal disabled the Infinity Gauntlet so that not even Adam Warlock could use it. That was the reason why Magus managed to capture the IG.

If Adam Warlock really had the power to challange TLT, then TLT shouldn't have been able to disable the Gauntlet when Warlock needed it the most.

First off no one had the IG when the tribunal turned it off. However when someone does use it, its been said they can equal (or at least fight) TLT. It's even been stated that if Infinty had the gauntlet he might be more powerful than TLT (might or would be, can't remember which one).

Also if TLT was all-powerful/all-knowing how was he played like a musical instrument by the magus?

Silver Paladin · Post by **Silver Paladin** » 2002-08-27 04:12pm

Wait...can you explain the difference between immune and "outside their power"? It sounds very similar to me. Remember Eternity was getting spanked by Thanos w/ IG, so I wouldn't exactly say that he's outside their power (at the very least, he's not immune to it's effects).

True, Warlock was not actively using the Gauntlet when it was disabled. However, he did put it on again and try to use it and failed. I have no doubt they can fight TLT, but I highly doubt that they could beat him. Remember that the last 2 wielders of the IG bowed before TLT's commands; Thanos (as well as Eternity, arguably the most powerful non-TLT, non-IG entity in Marvel) and Warlock.

Finally, TLT does not just randomly pop in and issue ultimatums. Remember when Thanos was going on his rampage, TLT did nothing until Eternity called him in (because he was getting trounced by Thanos). And even then, he did nothing (he ruled in favor of Thanos). Once again, TLT did nothing until Eternity called him to intervene with Adam Warlock. This time, he DID do something and ordered Adam Warlock to disband the IG.

The fact that there are problems does not mean that TLT will use his powers to stop conflict. Remember in some instances, he feels that the change will be for the betterment of Marvelverse. He didn't save Eternity because he felt that perhaps Thanos would make a better Eternity substitute (or perhaps he already knew Thanos would fail?). He didn't stop Magus, and that didn't matter, because Magus DID fail. Did TLT know that Magus did not have the Reality Gem?

TLT only passes rulings; he is not an activist. In most cases, he waits for people to ask him to mediate on issues; then he uses his powers to pass an edict and uses his powers to enforce the edict. Remember, he restored power to the IG on behalf of Eternity's request; he did not just randomly decide to reactivate the IG.

Silver Paladin · Post by **Silver Paladin** » 2002-08-27 04:16pm

I wish there was an edit button so I can add to this, but since there isn't I'll make another post.

The point I'm trying to make is that the Living Tribunals INACTIONS have not harmed Marvelverse in anyway or form, and neither have his actions. You can attribute this to luck, or to his omniscence. I subscribe to the second belief.

Whose to say that he forsees the future where Warlock goes crazy with power and destroys everything? Whose to say that he forsaw that Magus would have discovered the fake Reality Gem if he wasn't so giddy with power?

We DO know that the inactions he chooses to take do not affect Marvel. After all, Thanos did lose the IG, even without TLT's intervention, so his action was not really needed.

Khan Jackal Moreau · Post by **Khan Jackal Moreau** » 2002-08-28 02:12pm

Easy. The most powerful race is (since it has to be published... or something) is one of those Marvel guys.

But honestly, what good is debating a subject when the winner is whoever has the wonkiest writing?

beyond hope · Post by **beyond hope** » 2002-08-30 06:38pm

Two that deserve mention: the TechnoCore from Dan Simmon's Hyperion novels. I'd think that a lot of sci-fi races would be hard-pressed to stop the Shrike if it was rampaging at will through their worlds. The other would be Jack Chalker's Wellworld novels... all of reality is maintained by one giant super-computer in those books, so you could just cancel out whatever offending race is giving you trouble.

thecreech · Post by **thecreech** » 2002-08-30 07:16pm

I would say Warhammer40k.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-08-30 08:19pm

(And so the flames being)
DragonBall GT

Post by **Colonel Olrik** » 2002-08-30 08:37pm

YES! Dragon Ball rulez!

I challenge all Star Destroyers and Death Stars to try to take a shot at super sayan Songoku

Lt. Nebfer · Post by **Lt. Nebfer** » 2002-08-30 08:55pm

I think a Heavy turbo laser hase more firepower than goko(but goko in the past has been hard to kill)

Post by **Colonel Olrik** » 2002-08-30 09:03pm

[start flame war mode]
Dream on! goku can destroy a giant planet with a sing blast!
You obviously didn't see all the episodes of all the series various times and with cautious attention to details!

No one can beat the DB team. No one. Bua ah ah ah!
[end flame war mode]

Post by **Colonel Olrik** » 2002-08-30 09:27pm

[It's a damned trekkie wet dream. My side is actually stronger than everything else]

Silver Paladin · Post by **Silver Paladin** » 2002-08-30 10:10pm

Colonel Olrik wrote:[start flame war mode]
Dream on! goku can destroy a giant planet with a sing blast!
You obviously didn't see all the episodes of all the series various times and with cautious attention to details!

No one can beat the DB team. No one. Bua ah ah ah!
[end flame war mode]

The Living Tribunal snaps his fingers and changes Goku into chocolate flavored edible panties

Post by **Colonel Olrik** » 2002-08-30 10:14pm

No fair! No fair! I was fighting a Star Destroyer!
And I wus winning!
Stupid Living Tribunal

Silver Paladin · Post by **Silver Paladin** » 2002-08-30 11:34pm

Colonel Olrik wrote:No fair! No fair! I was fighting a Star Destroyer!
And I wus winning!
Stupid Living Tribunal

Would you like the chocolate edible panties? They're full of...chocolatey goodness!

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2002-08-31 01:41am

Silver Paladin wrote:
Simon H.Johansen wrote: Who are these Living Tribunal guys??
The Living Tribunal is a single being, quite possibly the most powerful character ever constructed. His job is to maintain balance in the myriad of multiverses that is Marvel. He prevents people from getting to powerful (ie. Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet) by stripping them of their powers. He is the judge, jury and executioner for all of Marvel

His power is described as unlimited. He can think of anything, and make it happen. He is beyond the powers of the multiverse (since Eternity is the representative of the Multiverse and TLT is more powerful than Eternity). So even if the entire Multiverse was destroyed, he would still live on and create another one.

He has absolute control of the 6 aspects of our universe. By absolute, I mean even if someone else has power over that aspect, he could choose to stop that person from using it (ie. what he did to Thanos w/ IG...since IG also granted the user powers over the 6 aspects)

Space (manifests itself in being able to be anywhere at anytime)
Time (manifests itself in Time Travel)
Reality (manifests itself in Immortality, since Death is a reality of life)
Power (Raw power)
Mind (Mind control, psychic powers, etc.)
Soul (Never seen this do anything).

So if Culture decides to mess with him, he would snap a finger, and Culture would be erased from Reality (Reality), or go back in Time to kill them before they became technologically advanced (time), destroy their entire universe (power), Mind control them all (Mind), or fold their galaxy away into a pocket universe so they cannot leave it (Space). If I figured out what the hell soul is supposed to do, I guess he could use it also =D.

While you're at it, can't you send me some Private Messages about the Celestials, the Infinity Watch the Exterminator?`

I only know these Marvel characters because they mentioned in the song The Scourge of the Fourth Celestial Host by Bal-Sagoth.

Skelron · Post by **Skelron** » 2002-08-31 02:06am

theheap wrote:I would say Warhammer40k.

Hmm as a fewllow 40Ker I feel the need to post something here.
The 40K universe while not the most powerful, does have serious potential to claim the position, not with the Races as they stand now, but with them at their respective heights. For example the C'Tan and the Old Ones, before they had their war against each other. (After all the C'Tan made many of the races, as fellow soldiers) The Eldar Empire before the fall. (Which was said to be so powerful the Eldar could make Stars go Nova in their Sleep, and which was so powerful no outside force could threaten it.) The Nids if the entire Fleet arrived in a galaxy as one, or maybe say in two parts the scouting fleet to determine the Galaxy's defenses and pass on what was needed to the main fleet.

However as the races/factions stand now I'd say that they fill a weird position, as one of the top people in the Debatable Universes, but not quite in the so powerful nothing apart from the 'Living Tribunal' can stand against them, they just fail to qualify as an Uber Power universe.

beyond hope · Post by **beyond hope** » 2002-08-31 12:50pm

Do Anime universes get the benefit of Anime physics? That'd make them about an order of magnitude more powerful

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-08-31 01:23pm

Heh I remeber all those greater super-god like charaters who messed with super-heros

Free coookie to the first person to name the little man and spell his name correctyl front and back who used to mess with Super-mans mind

Skelron · Post by **Skelron** » 2002-08-31 09:22pm

Skelron wrote:
theheap wrote:I would say Warhammer40k.
. (After all the C'Tan made many of the races, as fellow soldiers) .

GURR my life for an edit button, not ment to say the Old Ones did, along with creating the Warp gates around the Warhammer Fantasy world, and changing it's postion in it's orbit around the star to make it better suited to life. (Assuming that the Warhammer world exists in the 40K universe which is likely)

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

The MOST Powerful Sci-Fi Universe?

Hah