General North Korea thread

[Simon_Jester]

Heh.

Don't look at me, I wasn't saying it.

[K. A. Pital]

I said ABM was not necessary, but for other reasons, of course.

[Broomstick]

Amid an uptick in North Korean military defectors and rumors of starvation in the military in North Korea, Japan is experiencing an uptick in ghost ships, wrecked or disabled North Korean fishing boats washing ashore. Some contain bodies, some have still-living crew.

North Korean fishermen might be pressured by their government to set to sea in under-equipped boats and sail longer distance than the vessels are built/equipped for, poaching in other governments' fishing areas. It does seem to be a bit desperate.

IF the military is starting to go hungry that might alter some of the equation inside the country. It's also ominous, as the military is fed first, and if they aren't getting fed neither are the civilians, and even less so the people in the various camps.

Of course, North Korea is the sort of regime that would throw half the inhabitants (hard to call them "citizens' when they have so few rights and freedoms) under the bus to save the rest, or just save the ruling elite.

[Enigma]

Why do I get the feeling that there'll be a coup happening soon?

[Marko Dash]

hopefully the next king nut will have a bit of sense and actually work with other countries to get NK to be less of a shithole, but that's unlikely.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

hopefully the next king nut will have a bit of sense and actually work with other countries to get NK to be less of a shithole, but that's unlikely.

That's like hoping that the Middle East will sort itself out without bloodshed!

[The Romulan Republic]

Why do I get the feeling that there'll be a coup happening soon?

Honestly, Fatty Kim getting quickly couped by someone who knows how to soothe the Donald's ego might be the best chance for this ending without a nuclear exchange.

[Simon_Jester]

The kind of person who knows how to appease a bullying glob of waste like Trump is very unlikely to be able to survive for long in the kind of political environment we have reason to expect North Korea to be. When you're basically ruling as god-king and having to ruthlessly suppress anyone who is not loyal to you personally, the act of kissing some foreigner's butt, and having your senior advisers know you are doing this, just isn't going to work. Your own court will scent weakness and tear you apart.

I suspect this is a major reason why Third World autocracies often don't last very long without a coup...

[Crazedwraith]

Why do I get the feeling that there'll be a coup happening soon?

On the contrary, the military will definitely not perform a coup. Just like what happened in Zimbabwe was explicitly, not a coup.

It's only a coup if it fails .

[Isolder74]

You have to wonder when things will get hot there again as the leadership tries to move attention away from their own internal problem. A border incident might be something they can use to keep the lower ranks distracted.

North Korea doesn't usually do those things in the winter time as it's when their resources are the lowest.

[The Romulan Republic]

This is already being discussed in the Trump foreign policy thread, but I figure its pertinent to this thread as well:

Behold Trump's latest Twitter outrage:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... im-jong-un

North Korean Leader Kim Jong Un just stated that the "Nuclear Button is on his desk at all times." Will someone from his depleted and food starved regime please inform him that I took have a Nuclear Button, but it is a much bigger & more powerful one than his and my Button works.

So there you have it. Nuclear diplomacy, as conducted via dick measuring contest by a Twitter troll.

Its probably a sign that I've been spending too much time on Game of Thrones, that "The Rains of Castamere" kept playing in my head while I was writing this post.

"And mine are long and sharp my lord, as long and sharp as your's."

But seriously, if you are on Twitter, please close your account, and inform Twitter that you are boycotting their product until they close Donald Trump's account. If we end up fighting WWIII, can it at least be for a less stupid reason than trolling on Twitter?

[The Romulan Republic]

Trump is reportedly favoring a "bloody nose" strike on North Korea, with Tillerson and Mattis trying to restrain him.

http://www.businessinsider.com/tillerso ... ike-2018-1

President Donald Trump's secretaries of state and defense are trying to persuade him not to strike North Korea, while his national security adviser is pushing for a "bloody nose" attack, according to recent reports in The Telegraph and The Wall Street Journal.

So, there we have it: Trump is reportedly favoring firing the first shot in what would likely be a nuclear war with North Korea, and possibly China as well. Thus potentially making the United States responsible for death on a scale not seen since WWII.

I cannot help but wonder how much of this is a calculation that a war will distract people from the investigations against him, and/or allow him to claim "wartime powers".

If Trump attempts to launch a first strike without assurances of Chinese neutrality, or if, God forbid, he attempts to launch a nuclear first strike, I would consider that justification for a military coup to remove him from power, in the interests of preventing a global catastrophe.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Trump is reportedly favoring a "bloody nose" strike on North Korea, with Tillerson and Mattis trying to restrain him.

http://www.businessinsider.com/tillerso ... ike-2018-1

President Donald Trump's secretaries of state and defense are trying to persuade him not to strike North Korea, while his national security adviser is pushing for a "bloody nose" attack, according to recent reports in The Telegraph and The Wall Street Journal.

So, there we have it: Trump is reportedly favoring firing the first shot in what would likely be a nuclear war with North Korea, and possibly China as well. Thus potentially making the United States responsible for death on a scale not seen since WWII.

I cannot help but wonder how much of this is a calculation that a war will distract people from the investigations against him, and/or allow him to claim "wartime powers".

If Trump attempts to launch a first strike without assurances of Chinese neutrality, or if, God forbid, he attempts to launch a nuclear first strike, I would consider that justification for a military coup to remove him from power, in the interests of preventing a global catastrophe.

This on the same day that NK officials visited the south to negotiate some of their athletes competing in the Winter Olympics. According to the news this works in Fat Kim's favour as it's likely to drive a wedge between SK and Trump.

[The Romulan Republic]

Yup. Its not Kim Jong Un who's being isolated by Trump's posturing.

Its the United States.

If we end in a situation where the only option is a unilateral military one, it may very well be because Trump's idiocy has completely closed the door on the alternatives, by undermining American diplomacy, credibility, and alliances.

[Ralin]

Yes, unlike Trump bragging about how much bigger his nuclear penis is this is a legit concern. I've said before that I'm not greatly worried about Trump starting a war with North Korea because he's so stupid and blustering, but if he does the most likely scenario for that happening is Trump getting it into his head that the military can pull off some sort of decapitation strike that wipes out the North Korean leadership before they can retaliate.

That said, I'm looking at this article and the non-login required parts of the articles it references and I'm seeing a whole lot of 'sources' and 'reported' and not a lot of direct quotes and names of people in a position to know what's being considered and willing to stand by the claim that Trump is totally leaning towards just smacking North Korea a couple times to put them in their place. That seems more than a little dubious. Even the Trump administration I'd expect to know that attacking North Korea is the sort of thing where you either go big or don't do it at all.

[The Romulan Republic]

Well, even this article says that some of the more... sane people in the administration DO know its a bad idea (Mattis, Tillerson). So that's something, anyway.

[LadyTevar]

So... North Korea is in talks to join the Olympics in Pyongcheng.
LINK to Business Insider
LINK to NYTimes

[The Romulan Republic]

Yeah, heard about that.

Like I said, it isn't North Korea that's being isolated by Trump's bullshit. Just the US.

Edit: Dear God, Trump is actually losing the diplomacy game to Kim Jong Un? That alone makes him unfit to be President.

[Ralin]

Yeah, heard about that.

Like I said, it isn't North Korea that's being isolated by Trump's bullshit. Just the US.

Edit: Dear God, Trump is actually losing the diplomacy game to Kim Jong Un? That alone makes him unfit to be President.

Bush lost that game to his father. And it would be fair to say that Obama mostly just treaded water on the issue for eight years.

[Dominus Atheos]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-01-18/p ... am/9338032

Pyeongchang 2018: North and South Korea to march under 'unification flag' at Winter Olympics



The two Koreas will compete as a unified team in the Olympics for the first time, though they have joined forces at other international sports events before.

North Korea will send a delegation of more than 400, including 230 cheerleaders, 140 artists and 30 Taekwondo players for a demonstration, a joint press statement released by Seoul's Unification Ministry said, adding that the precise number of athletes will be hammered out after discussions with the IOC.

It's actually possible that Donald Trump is so stupid and incompetent that when he tries to "win" the korean war, he manages to lose so badly that... it causes Korean reunification.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-01-18/p ... am/9338032

Pyeongchang 2018: North and South Korea to march under 'unification flag' at Winter Olympics



The two Koreas will compete as a unified team in the Olympics for the first time, though they have joined forces at other international sports events before.

North Korea will send a delegation of more than 400, including 230 cheerleaders, 140 artists and 30 Taekwondo players for a demonstration, a joint press statement released by Seoul's Unification Ministry said, adding that the precise number of athletes will be hammered out after discussions with the IOC.

It's actually possible that Donald Trump is so stupid and incompetent that when he tries to "win" the korean war, he manages to lose so badly that... it causes Korean reunification.

I wouldn't read too much into this, it looks to be more of a publicity stunt than anything else.

[The Romulan Republic]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-01-18/p ... am/9338032

Pyeongchang 2018: North and South Korea to march under 'unification flag' at Winter Olympics



The two Koreas will compete as a unified team in the Olympics for the first time, though they have joined forces at other international sports events before.

North Korea will send a delegation of more than 400, including 230 cheerleaders, 140 artists and 30 Taekwondo players for a demonstration, a joint press statement released by Seoul's Unification Ministry said, adding that the precise number of athletes will be hammered out after discussions with the IOC.

It's actually possible that Donald Trump is so stupid and incompetent that when he tries to "win" the korean war, he manages to lose so badly that... it causes Korean reunification.

I'm not sure how Korean reunification (as unlikely as it may be) would actually be a loss for anyone, presuming it took any form other than the subjugation of South Korea by the Kim regime.

[Patroklos]

It's actually possible that Donald Trump is so stupid and incompetent that when he tries to "win" the korean war, he manages to lose so badly that... it causes Korean reunification.

Which would be...winning the Korean War?

[Dominus Atheos]

Trump would only consider it "winning" if North Korea is crushed. He and other warmongering idiots would consider Korean reunification to be a loss.

But yes, that is what I meant, Trump may lose so hard, it ironically circles back around and becomes a victory.

[Patroklos]

Sounds like you are engaging in some wishful thinking.

So if NK just threw open its borders today, renounced nuclear weapons and turned them over to a third party, and began reunification right now you think Trump, inside his head, would think he lost?

You do understand that the point of threatening people is to get them to do things OTHER than realize that threat, right? Otherwise you don't threaten to do, you just do. You might hate trump, but that sort of aggressive negotiation has been his style in business for decades. Whether you think that is or has been a good way to conduct business, its well established that it is his way and I am pretty sure he wasn't doing that all that time in the hopes the target would not do what he was asking.

I don't doubt that Trump would relish a military victory of NK should it transpire. That doesn't mean its the only type of victory that's acceptable to him.