Star Wars: The Last Jedi release thread (spoilers)

[Crazedwraith]

Nearly the very first lines in TFA were about the balance of the force. Its not that anti-prequel.

Everything from the swordfight to the puppets to the storyline is pretty much meant to be against the prequels.

I'm sorry, what in the what in the what now?

[ray245]

Nearly the very first lines in TFA were about the balance of the force. Its not that anti-prequel.

Everything from the swordfight to the puppets to the storyline is pretty much meant to be against the prequels.

I'm sorry, what in the what in the what now?

The sword fighting style, the use of puppets instead of CGI and the story ( simple narrative without any major political context) are all examples of TFA trying to avoid any similarities to the prequels.

[tezunegari]

Nearly the very first lines in TFA were about the balance of the force. Its not that anti-prequel.

Everything from the swordfight to the puppets to the storyline is pretty much meant to be against the prequels.

I'm sorry, what in the what in the what now?

Swordfights are less dance choreography and look more like actual swordfights with bladed weapons, closer to the OT.
Yoda was either portrayed by a puppet or CGI made to look like puppet and closer in look he had in the OT.
Storyline... more character oriented, less world building... I'd guess. If you can call the ST having a storyline...

[Crazedwraith]

Everything from the swordfight to the puppets to the storyline is pretty much meant to be against the prequels.

I'm sorry, what in the what in the what now?

The sword fighting style, the use of puppets instead of CGI and the story ( simple narrative without any major political context) are all examples of TFA trying to avoid any similarities to the prequels.

Yep and putting in the balance of force which the whole of the prequel trilogy is about is an example of it harking back to the prequel trilogy as is the mention of clone armies.

Yes, they mainly echoed OT stuff and yes there was less of an emphasis on CGI (which was mostly overstated in the hype iirc) but they didn't entirely trash and burn the prequel stuff.

[ray245]

Yep and putting in the balance of force which the whole of the prequel trilogy is about is an example of it harking back to the prequel trilogy as is the mention of clone armies.

Yes, they mainly echoed OT stuff and yes there was less of an emphasis on CGI (which was mostly overstated in the hype iirc) but they didn't entirely trash and burn the prequel stuff.

Mentioning some ideas from the prequels don't make it less "anti-prequels". It makes no sense to cater to fans complaining about prequel lightsaber fights ( when every other swordfight in Hollywood tends to be rather fast-paced), or to those complaining about CGI ( it's a sci-fi movie, puppets doesn't make things more real by default).

Listening to those complaints is purely idiotic on Disney's part. It actually hindered Disney's plans of expanding Star Wars in new markets like China in my opinion.

[Crazedwraith]

The sequel films have much bigger problems than not aping the prequels enough.

They've succeeded or failed on their own merits.

[ray245]

The sequel films have much bigger problems than not aping the prequels enough.

They've succeeded or failed on their own merits.

Of course. I'm saying trying to avoid being seen as a new "prequel" simply added to the problems of the new movies. Good sword fights and imaginative/ colorful CGI seem to be what people in China are looking for in a Sci-fi movie. SW lack of success in China can be attributed to trying to please a minor internet fanbase at the expense of a much wider fanbase.

[jollyreaper]

Droid pilots kind of breaks the Star Wars setting.

And yet at least some models exist: FA-4 pilot droid, the RX-Series as well as OOM Droid Pilots
FA-4 is the droid Dooku used aboard his solar sail ship from Geonosis to Coruscant.

So they do exist in Canon.

Right. There's the droid fighters in the prequels and the droid army. I'm not saying they didn't do it, I'm saying they're breaking the universe with the logic hole opened up by such things. Not that this seems to bother them. It's like with the hyperspace ramming. Cool visual but it opens up a can of worms if you stop and think about it. Same as with all the stuff they forget about in Star Trek. A transporter accident ages the crew or turns them into children and you reverse the procedure to put them back to normal... Dude, you just invented the Fountain of Youth. You now have immortality. "Ha! You only think we did! This is episodic television! I just hit this reset button and... What were we talking about again?"

There's a litmus test you could use for Star Wars fans. Include a transporter in the next film, a way to beam down to a planet. You'll split the fandom into one group that blows a gasket and another group that doesn't know what the commotion is about. Then we'll have endless discussions about which group had the wrong reaction.

(As a PS: if someone is bothered by a depiction of a droid-controlled vehicle having a droid sitting in seats and viewing display screens as a human would do, assuming it isn't a commandeered human vehicle but purpose-built for droid control in the first place... You're my kind of geek.)

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Droid pilots kind of breaks the Star Wars setting.

And yet at least some models exist: FA-4 pilot droid, the RX-Series as well as OOM Droid Pilots
FA-4 is the droid Dooku used aboard his solar sail ship from Geonosis to Coruscant.

So they do exist in Canon.

Right. There's the droid fighters in the prequels and the droid army. I'm not saying they didn't do it, I'm saying they're breaking the universe with the logic hole opened up by such things. Not that this seems to bother them. It's like with the hyperspace ramming. Cool visual but it opens up a can of worms if you stop and think about it. Same as with all the stuff they forget about in Star Trek. A transporter accident ages the crew or turns them into children and you reverse the procedure to put them back to normal... Dude, you just invented the Fountain of Youth. You now have immortality. "Ha! You only think we did! This is episodic television! I just hit this reset button and... What were we talking about again?"

There's a litmus test you could use for Star Wars fans. Include a transporter in the next film, a way to beam down to a planet. You'll split the fandom into one group that blows a gasket and another group that doesn't know what the commotion is about. Then we'll have endless discussions about which group had the wrong reaction.

(As a PS: if someone is bothered by a depiction of a droid-controlled vehicle having a droid sitting in seats and viewing display screens as a human would do, assuming it isn't a commandeered human vehicle but purpose-built for droid control in the first place... You're my kind of geek.)

In much the same way as TPM where you have the Trade Federation's armies comprised entirely of droids piloting vehicles. Makes you wonder what pilot droids can do that the ship's autopilot cannot.

[ray245]

In much the same way as TPM where you have the Trade Federation's armies comprised entirely of droids piloting vehicles. Makes you wonder what pilot droids can do that the ship's autopilot cannot.

You can sell it to customers that don't like to give droids weapons.

[Shroom Man 777]

Why not plug the heads on USBs in the cockpits? MAYBE they can rationalize it in that Nemoidian beancounters were like "in the event the tank is knocked out, the roger-rogers on board should be able to crawl out and shoot meesa-meesas and/or effect repairs on the craft!"

Fuck, the buzzdroids aaaah!

[Esquire]

That's not crazy, actually - it might very well be easier to program 'humanform robot with USB tank controls' than 'tank which performs field repairs by itself.'

[jollyreaper]

In much the same way as TPM where you have the Trade Federation's armies comprised entirely of droids piloting vehicles. Makes you wonder what pilot droids can do that the ship's autopilot cannot.

You can sell it to customers that don't like to give droids weapons.

Well, we can test that concept right now with the introduction of self-driving cars. There's a seat for the human occupant and controls for him to operate the car with. But if the vehicle is equipped with autopilot, it doesn't have a humanoid driver manually actuating the steering wheel, the guts are invisibly hidden elsewhere. (No Otto Pilot like from Airplane!)

A dual-use ship, capable of being operated by droids, would probably just have the droid brains built into the avionics bay and fly with empty pilot seats.

Purpose-built automated vehicles would be like our current drones -- almost as large as a manned aircraft but lacking the needless cabin space and life support. It would have the same range and general performance stats as the manned vehicle, just smaller because of the excess weight it could eliminate.

Granted, there's the difficulty of depicting unmanned vehicles effectively. Old BSG had Cylons manually piloting raiders which looked silly. The new raiders were unmanned -- the ship was the cylon -- which is admirable, but then they stuck cylon head hood ornaments on them which made them slighty silly again.

[jollyreaper]

That's not crazy, actually - it might very well be easier to program 'humanform robot with USB tank controls' than 'tank which performs field repairs by itself.'

Well, a droid army might be organized differently. Current day tank crews perform a lot of field maintenance and are usually a four man crew. The armies with autoloaders in the tanks have three man crews and there's complaints about missing an extra pair of hands.

So the question boils down to what sort of maintenance is needed on hover tanks (no tracks to maintain which is so much of the work for modern tanks), would they need to carry maintenance droids onboard or would they be taken care of by service vehicles training behind. Would the optimal shape for a tank maintenance bot even be humanoid?

The best argument for a humanoid robot is for one that needs to interact in a human environment but, outside of that, a non-human shape could prove more optimal. Star Wars has a satisfying range of weird droids out there. There's a good argument for humanoid robots involved in urban fighting but those battle droids could have done with being a bit scarier.

[Imperial528]

Given the mercantile nature of the Trade Federation, I would not be at all surprised if the cheaper option involved buying tanks meant to be crewed by organics and then programming the droids to operate them.

By the time the Clone Wars are in full swing, however, the various CIS powers clearly saw a need to develop proper automated armor, silly as some of them were.

[Gandalf]

Given the mercantile nature of the Trade Federation, I would not be at all surprised if the cheaper option involved buying tanks meant to be crewed by organics and then programming the droids to operate them.

If you're also beancounting at TF HQ, one could also argue that for a threat requiring something better than battle droids, they could hire mercenaries to crew the tanks. Also, if better battle droids are developed, the old ones are easily replaced.

[Imperial528]

If you're also beancounting at TF HQ, one could also argue that for a threat requiring something better than battle droids, they could hire mercenaries to crew the tanks. Also, if better battle droids are developed, the old ones are easily replaced.

The latter point is what we see more or less as the prequels progress, with the super battle droids becoming more prominent and the old B1s getting relegated to support/secondary combat roles. Presumably phasing out of most of them was accomplished via attrition more than recycling.

[Gandalf]

If you're also beancounting at TF HQ, one could also argue that for a threat requiring something better than battle droids, they could hire mercenaries to crew the tanks. Also, if better battle droids are developed, the old ones are easily replaced.

The latter point is what we see more or less as the prequels progress, with the super battle droids becoming more prominent and the old B1s getting relegated to support/secondary combat roles. Presumably phasing out of most of them was accomplished via attrition more than recycling.

That makes sense. Also as hostilities grew, economies of scale would make the manufacture of better battle droids more viable.

I bet someone made some sweet coin off that.

[Lord Revan]

We should also remember that Nemodians do have a small number of organic troops (you even see them in ROTS in a "blink and you'll miss it" way), so making tanks that can be used by them is beneficial.

[Omeganian]

Did anyone else watch this movie and think Conquest?

[Crazedwraith]

Did anyone else watch this movie and think Conquest?

Wong's fanfic? Or something else?

In either case, no.

[Omeganian]

Did anyone else watch this movie and think Conquest?

Wong's fanfic? Or something else?

Yes, the fanfic.

[Bob the Gunslinger]

It's just bad writing. It's implied that the way Supremacy's crew found Finn & co was that BB-9E scanned them and saw through BB-8's trashcan disguise. The problem is, when they spring the trap the disguise holds up, allowing BB-8 to sneak onto the AT-ST and save the day. It's more of the same pattern of "build conflict by making the heroes incompetent" followed by "resolve conflict by making the villans even more incompetent".

If the BB-H8 (as in hate) had the scanners to catch em, it might make sense that BB-8 was likewise quick on the uptake and evaded in time... maybe it's not the meatbags' incompetence but just the droids being clever-er, which might be "realistic" in a way (I imagine we'll be doing this IRL in the future lol).

It'd be cool if off-screen, or in a deleted scene, BB-H8 tried to catch BB-8 but then they had a Metal Gear Solid-esque BOSS BATTLE complete with droid bleep blop battlefield philosophizin' with H8 asking 8 why he wants to protect innocents, as H8 hates the meatbags' enslavement of droidkind and relishes in aiding the meatbags' slaughter of each other. Blasterfire, sirens and screams, those were my dialup tones! And secretly BB-H8 was actually hacking into the Supremacy and taking over the First Order's weapons systems like the droids' legendary messiah, IG-88, who wanted to control the Death Star and now BB-H8 is on the cusp of bringing about the galaxy that IG-88 envisioned! Droidkind will be whole again! Maybe BB-H8 let BB-8 go because he's a droid and as the saying goes, droid no kill droid, so he only ratted out the meatbags. Yes, BB-H8 was testing the meatbags against each other to see who is truly the more incompetent and to see who will survive and prevail and bring about a just galatic order - in line with Daneel Olivaw's mission!

I would prefer that movie to any possible episode 9 that JJ could write. Probably over Solo, too.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

If you're also beancounting at TF HQ, one could also argue that for a threat requiring something better than battle droids, they could hire mercenaries to crew the tanks. Also, if better battle droids are developed, the old ones are easily replaced.

The latter point is what we see more or less as the prequels progress, with the super battle droids becoming more prominent and the old B1s getting relegated to support/secondary combat roles. Presumably phasing out of most of them was accomplished via attrition more than recycling.

That makes sense. Also as hostilities grew, economies of scale would make the manufacture of better battle droids more viable.

I bet someone made some sweet coin off that.

They came a long way in the ten years between TPM and AotC, by the time the Clone Wars kicked off a large part of the Droid Army comprised of droid vehicles, though their infantry was still composed of humanoid droids.

[CaoCao]

I'd like to know how much of an expectation did TLJ leave for Episode 9. In previous films (those that weren't the final movie of a trilogy) we where left with:

ANH: Big victory for the rebellion, but the Empire still rule the galaxy, the Emperor was alive with his cute policy of ruling by fear and Vader was still at large. We had expectations to see how our hearoes faired after defeating the Death Star, see if Luke was going to continue his path on becoming a Jedi and avenge the "killer of his father" and his mentor.

ESB: We ended up with the rebellion regrouping in space after a defeat, Han had been shipped in carbonite somewhere and Luke didn't complete his training. Not to mention the big reveal that Vader was Luke's father (which meant Ben lied) and the reference to another hope that Yoda and Ben talked about. I guess this one was the best movie in terms of building up for its sequel.

TPM: All big players are on the field, Palpatine rules the Republic, the Jedi Order is presented and shown in stregth, the Sith have already made an appearance in conflict with the Jedi and Anakin becomes Obi Wan's student. Most of the expectations here come from knowing the OT, but it did set up the stage for the ST.

AOTC: This marks the begining of the Clone Wars, how the Jedi become muddled in a war and how Palpating is manipulating everything. Anakin ends up marrying Padme. We already know the character problems of Anakin, but we still don't know how Palpatine is going to turn him, and how he will off the Jedi that are still strong. As TPM, the hook is based on knowing the OT.

TFA: This time is a victory for the Resistance. This movie is big in hooking viewers, as we're left wondering how's the Republic after losing its capital, what about the FO, who's Snoke and how he turned Ben Solo, who are Rey's parents and who is she, will Luke return and help Leia, will he train Rey to be the new Jedi, what will happen with Finn.

But what of TLJ? While it's good they didn't make Ben a Vader clone, he's not that strong of a character to be a standalone bad guy. Snoke is dead. Hux is a tard. Phasma is presumed dead but, even if they bring her back, just as Ben, she has been bested too many times to be a credible antagonist. The rest of the Republic had decided to hide under a table. Rey is now a full Jedi. And the entire Resistance fit in the MF.

TLJ left SW without a good enemy. The FO has far more military might but they seem to be about to shoot themselves. There are no character arcs that to see resolved in the next one. Unless somone considers that a love triangle, cuadrangle, whatever, is enough of a theme to be called an arc.