Nikolas Cruz 'remorseful' as police report claims he confessed to Florida school shooting massacre

[The Romulan Republic]

Yeah, if accurate, that pretty much screams "Gross cowardice, negligence, and dereliction of duty."

Edit: I mean, it seems like you can't get American cops to think twice before pulling the trigger a lot of the time. Unless its a school shooter.

Oh, but trigger-happy cops always say that they were threatened by the unarmed victim. So yeah, the inescapable conclusion is that... a lot of American cops are fucking cowards.

[MKSheppard]

End result: we won't do our job to keep guns out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them nor help identify potentially violent offenders. And the laws already on the books would actually have stopped more than a couple of these shootings if they were funded and enforced.

Or well, enforcing existing laws?

Link

Just two and a half months before 19-year-old Nikolas Cruz took an AR-15 to his former high school and killed 17 people, it was revealed that he put a gun to the head of his half-brother, Zachary.

During a chilling 911 call to local authorities, Cruz’s neighbor, who was responsible for the suspect and his brother after the death of their mother, said he had “used a gun against people before,” reported WPTV.

After his mother died from flu complication in November, Cruz began acting violent shortly toward his younger brother Zachary (Nikolas and Zachary are pictured holding their mother’s ashes in a photo published by the Daily Mail).

Although the two had just moved into neighbor Rocxanne Deschamps’ trailer home, Cruz’s violent behavior was immediately noticed.

According to a report, Cruz and Deschamps’ 22-year-old son, Rock, had fought.

“He came in the house and started banging all the doors, and banging all the walls. Hitting the walls, throwing everything in the room, and then my son got in there,” Deschamps told Palm Beach County dispatchers.

During a different incident, Deschamps reported that Cruz had threatened her son Rock with a shotgun. In the 911 call, she revealed that Cruz had put guns to the head of his brother and mother.

“He put the gun to the head of his brother before. This is not the first time, and he did that to his mom, and his mom died. It is not the first time that he put a gun on somebody’s head,” she told dispatchers.

The day before the altercation between Rock and Cruz, a social worker from Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School asked deputies to check on Zachary Cruz, WPTV reported.

Since his mother died, the then 17-year-old boy hadn’t shown up at school but “was never disenrolled from school in Broward to attend any other school,” the social worker said.

Deputies visited the trailer but were told to come back later. It’s unclear if they did.

Last Friday, Zachary was involuntarily committed to a mental facility. He turned 18 on Wednesday.

[LadyTevar]

Fuck, there have been instances of school shootings stopped by STAFF running out to their cars, getting a handgun out of their glove compartment, and running back to confront the shooter.

Which shootings are you referring to?

[aerius]

Yeah, if accurate, that pretty much screams "Gross cowardice, negligence, and dereliction of duty."

Just remember, your country's courts have ruled that the police have no obligation to protect the public.
It ain't negligence & dereliction of duty when they had no duty to do anything.

[The Romulan Republic]

So I've heard.

I also don't really care what the law says, in this case. They may not have had a legal duty, but they had a moral one. If you are a cop and you're too scared to try to stop children being murdered even with backup, then I don't care what law you hide behind- you aren't fit to wear a badge.

Shame it'll probably prohibit them being sued/fired/charged as they deserve.

[MKSheppard]

Just remember, your country's courts have ruled that the police have no obligation to protect the public.
It ain't negligence & dereliction of duty when they had no duty to do anything.

So explain to me why only the police should have guns, then.

[aerius]

So explain to me why only the police should have guns, then.

How are the cops going to safely shoot you if you have a gun?
Think of the donut suckers!

[The Romulan Republic]

Just remember, your country's courts have ruled that the police have no obligation to protect the public.
It ain't negligence & dereliction of duty when they had no duty to do anything.

So explain to me why only the police should have guns, then.

I don't think anyone has said that (well, outside of a very small and politically impotent fringe). No one wants to abolish private gun ownership in the US. But since the pro-gun movement generally relies on slippery slope fallacies and paranoia, any attempt at regulation is falsely treated as an effort to get rid of all private guns, in order to whip up the base and sell more guns.

That said... private citizens shouldn't have to assume the duties of a cop to keep themselves and those around them safe. We ought to reform the police so that they can actually do their God damn job.

Edit: I'm especially disgusted at the idea of arming teachers. Teachers deal with enough shit without having to be expected to serve as a counter-terrorism force as well.

[Lonestar]

Which shootings are you referring to?

Pearl Mississippi.

They have also been college shootings that were stopped by students running out to their cars and getting a gun(Appalachian School of Law),

[The Romulan Republic]

So... just one shooting.

[Lonestar]

Well, that was just the one right off the top of my head.

My point is that such events have been stopped before, with less substantial means than a patrol rifle and a (alleged)Trained LEO.

[The Romulan Republic]

Fair enough.

And I agree, the cop should have gone in. The several cops certainly should have gone in.

As to arming teachers- I'd prefer to have an actual cop or two on every campus, provided that there was a level of training that made them likely to shoot a school shooter, and not likely to shoot innocent black people.

[MKSheppard]

http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/ ... 3-2018.pdf

FBI gonna FBI.

[Lonestar]

"YES BUT DOES HE DRESS UP LIKE ISIS"

jfc

[Zaune]

Worse than that.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/23/politics ... index.html

(CNN)When Coral Springs police officers arrived at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, on February 14 in the midst of the school shooting crisis, many officers were surprised to find not only that Broward County Sheriff's Deputy Scot Peterson, the armed school resource officer, had not entered the building, but that three other Broward County Sheriff's deputies were also outside the school and had not entered, Coral Springs sources tell CNN. The deputies had their pistols drawn and were behind their vehicles, the sources said, and not one of them had gone into the school.

With direction from the Broward deputies who were outside, Coral Springs police soon entered the building where the shooter was. New Broward County Sheriff's deputies arrived on the scene, and two of those deputies and an officer from Sunrise, Florida, joined the Coral Springs police as they went into the building.

Some Coral Springs police were stunned and upset that the four original Broward County Sheriff's deputies who were first on the scene did not appear to join them as they entered the school, Coral Springs sources tell CNN. It's unclear whether the shooter was still in the building when they arrived.

What these Coral Springs officers observed -- though not their feelings about it -- will be released in a report, likely next week. Sources cautioned that tapes are currently being reviewed and official accounts could ultimately differ from recollections of officers on the scene.

The resentment among Coral Springs officials toward Broward County officials about what they perceived to be a dereliction of duty may have reached a boiling point at a vigil the night of February 15, where, in front of dozens of others, Coral Springs City Manager Mike Goodrum confronted Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel. A source familiar with the conversation tells CNN that Goodrum was upset that the Broward deputies had remained outside the school while kids inside could have been bleeding out, among other reasons.

Fucking hell. The lone officer on scene choosing to withdraw and wait for reinforcements might or might not be justified in this case but I can at least envision circumstances where it's the right call. But three additional units showing up and apparently doing nothing but take cover and wait for someone else to show up? That, at minimum, suggests a bit of a problem with training and espirit de corps. Hell, someone really paranoid could point out the rather high percentage of Jewish students at Coral Springs and wonder if this was merely sufficiently advanced stupidity.

[TheFeniX]

Yeah, the Democrats failed on this issue before. But at the same time, today's Democratic Party is not the Democratic Party of a decade ago. It just isn't.

Sure feels like it. Only capable of taking issues to task when they aren't in the driver's seat. Honestly, I've had some issues with the party since it's seemed like they are incapable of much when the GOP isn't playing nice, such as the pre-blowjob Clinton days or when the DNC and GOP is in agreement on an issue wholeheartedly, like selling out to wall street or Patriot Act extensions.

Hell, Hillary Clinton (who is nobody's idea of a radical reformer) made somewhat successful political capital out of Bernie Sanders not being anti-gun enough for the current Democratic Party in the primaries.

Yea, in the primaries. Where you're pandering to the most vocal and active (and usually fundamentalist) of your respective party. And let's face it, she had way more capital in the "buying the nomination" area than anything. She could have ridden the man like a horse while popping him with a riding crop and pulled out the W. Hell, maybe even scored a few more votes in the process.

Besides, talk is fucking cheap. Talk talk talk about more gun laws. Then fold immediately upon opposition. Fuck, as much as a disagree with them, I'd have to give respect if they could pass ANYTHING in this regard. Even something incredibly watered down.

As to Obama- yeah, he got the ACA passed- and pretty much expended a huge amount of political capital to do so, to the point that his party lost Congress in the backlash and gave the Republicans a position of power in Congress which they have never really lost since, and from which the country still hasn't recovered. I think he could have pushed through sweeping gun control (maybe- there wasn't as much support for it then as now) or the ACA, maybe, but not both. And frankly, he made the right call there, because the ACA would almost certainly save more lives in the long run than gun control will.

Correct me if I'm wrong, Democrats were hemorrhaging seats before the ACA deal because they just weren't doing anything except, as I stated before, selling everyone down the river to wall street. Liz Warren need not apply here. The ACA is Obama's deal. Hell, it has his name on it thanks to Republicans and he ate none of the shit pie Dems had to because people like/liked Obama.

But Democrats? The populace could take them or leave them after the 2000s.

End result: we won't do our job to keep guns out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them nor help identify potentially violent offenders. And the laws already on the books would actually have stopped more than a couple of these shootings if they were funded and enforced.

Or well, enforcing existing laws?

I said that in my post, in fact even in the part you quoted. If you are just adding to my point, cool. If you had a counter-point, please reiterate because, possibly due to my own failings as it's after 5pm on a Friday, I'm not getting your point.

[The Romulan Republic]

Yeah, the Democrats failed on this issue before. But at the same time, today's Democratic Party is not the Democratic Party of a decade ago. It just isn't.

Sure feels like it. Only capable of taking issues to task when they aren't in the driver's seat. Honestly, I've had some issues with the party since it's seemed like they are incapable of much when the GOP isn't playing nice, such as the pre-blowjob Clinton days or when the DNC and GOP is in agreement on an issue wholeheartedly, like selling out to wall street or Patriot Act extensions.

I don't really want to refight this argument, but this is an oversimplification. And I think that whatever the Democratic Party's flaws, now is not the time to be tearing open internal divisions.

Its also veering off-topic.

Yea, in the primaries. Where you're pandering to the most vocal and active (and usually fundamentalist) of your respective party. And let's face it, she had way more capital in the "buying the nomination" area than anything. She could have ridden the man like a horse while popping him with a riding crop and pulled out the W. Hell, maybe even scored a few more votes in the process.

Pretty sure she kept pushing gun control during the general election, though feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Besides, talk is fucking cheap. Talk talk talk about more gun laws. Then fold immediately upon opposition. Fuck, as much as a disagree with them, I'd have to give respect if they could pass ANYTHING in this regard. Even something incredibly watered down.

Talk is cheap, but the Democrats have no real means to take legislative or executive action on this at the moment, and certainly Hillary Clinton doesn't. So I don't think its fair to make presumptions about what they would have done in an alternate universe where 2016 was a Dem. landslide.

Now, if they win in a landslide this year and then do jack shit on the issue, by all means, judge them and primary them on that.

Correct me if I'm wrong, Democrats were hemorrhaging seats before the ACA deal because they just weren't doing anything except, as I stated before, selling everyone down the river to wall street. Liz Warren need not apply here. The ACA is Obama's deal. Hell, it has his name on it thanks to Republicans and he ate none of the shit pie Dems had to because people like/liked Obama.

Actually, they won a huge victory (including, IIRC, a brief filibuster-proof majority) in 2008. There was no major election after that before the ACA deal, and the 2010 losses are largely attributed to a backlash against the ACA as I recall.

But Democrats? The populace could take them or leave them after the 2000s.

Which is why we've won the popular vote in both Presidential elections since then, and why we would have won the House in 2012 if not for gerrymandering, and why we've flipped seat after seat for the last year, including in fucking Alabama...

[Dominus Atheos]

Just remember, your country's courts have ruled that the police have no obligation to protect the public.
It ain't negligence & dereliction of duty when they had no duty to do anything.

So explain to me why only the police should have guns, then.

You know lots of people call for the British model where patrolmen don't have guns right? And you aren't helping your case by bringing up the NYPD. The NYPD shouldn't even be tieing their own shoes without assistance, because they'll probably kill 3 random black people during the process.

[Dominus Atheos]

Edit: I also can't help but wonder what would have happened if this shooter had been black. I wonder weather he would have even survived that many visits from the cops, never mind been able to buy a gun.

I've observed that, very frequently, when a hard target is picked for murder and mayhem it's usually a POC that does it. In fact I'm having a hard time thinking of the last time a white dude decided that instead of shooting up a school he was going to snipe at police officers at a rally, or attack the Washington Navy Yard.

So white shooters are cowards, black shooters aren't, is that your point?

Random trolling is random.

[MKSheppard]

So lots of talking about raising the age to own "assault weapons" to 21.

That has...problems.

Probably the actual bills will say "rifles/long guns", but cleverly will be sold in the media as "assault weapons", hoping nobody logs in and reads the submitted bills (Florida, national, etc etc).

Either way, a direct conflict with the bill(s) and the 2nd and 26th Amendments are coming. *popcorn*

[Lonestar]

So white shooters are cowards, black shooters aren't, is that your point?

Random trolling is random.

Evidence seems to support this thesis, yes.

[GuppyShark]

... the 26th? Outsider here. Has the reach of that amendment been extended beyond voting age in case law? It seems completely irrelevant, and why hasn't it been applied to alcohol if so?

[Dominus Atheos]

So lots of talking about raising the age to own "assault weapons" to 21.

That has...problems.

Probably the actual bills will say "rifles/long guns", but cleverly will be sold in the media as "assault weapons", hoping nobody logs in and reads the submitted bills (Florida, national, etc etc).

Either way, a direct conflict with the bill(s) and the 2nd and 26th Amendments are coming. *popcorn*

It may even say "semi-automatics", since liberals seem to have latched on to that term even though I'm pretty sure that they have no idea what it means. I've heard liberals say that they don't want to ban all guns, just the dangerous ones like "semi-automatics", "sniper rifles" and "pump-action shotguns" (which are at least a real thing). So... single action revolvers would be left I guess?

[MKSheppard]

So... single action revolvers would be left I guess?

Revolver Ocelot is proof they need to be banned as well.

[Ralin]

So, I was wondering yesterday. I think everyone here but Shep agrees that arming teachers with guns as a matter of policy is a dumb idea, and I'm pretty sure he's trolling. Are there any other options for arming teachers that would be if not good then at least not stupid and actively harmful? I'm thinking of something like a large, bulletproof shield to rush a shooter with if they barge into a classroom. Relatively simple to grab and use (bearing in mind that the shooter has the advantage of not being surprised, having a plan and having had time to psych himself up), no chance of accidentally shooting a student and as a bonus it would be like a sign for the police saying "Not the shooter."