GWB's leadership style-interesting article

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

Post Reply
User avatar
Glocksman
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7233
Joined: 2002-09-03 06:43pm
Location: Mr. Five by Five

GWB's leadership style-interesting article

Post by Glocksman »

From Fox News
It's a little too early in the game to determine how Bush compares to America's other wartime presidents, but experts say the first-term Texan has picked up a few lessons from his predecessors.

For one, he knows better than to try to micromanage the war. Bush ordered U.S. military commanders to target Iraqi President Saddam Hussein in the first air strikes of the war, but has since left it to them to decide on a second attack if an opportunity presents itself. He gave the go-ahead to strike on March 19, but left it to the military leaders to decide on the time and place for that first attack.

Those loose rules of engagement are typical of the way Bush manages war, aides say: He makes the big political decisions, gives the thumbs up or down to large-scale battlefield strategies, but leaves the precise combat tactics to the military experts.
I'm glad to see that he learned from LBJ's and Jimmy Carter's mistakes when it came to micromanaging operations in the field.
He also nags his generals to make sure they have the materials they need to win and are providing the humanitarian supplies to needy Iraqis.

The last question is asked at nearly every gathering of the Iraq war council. Aides say it reflects America's altruism, but critics wonder whether Bush's rush to flood Iraq with food, water and medicine could complicate the military mission.

In what could be considered the modern way to run a war, it would seem, Bush has ordered his generals to take great care to avoid civilian casualties. That may save lives, but historian John Mueller at Ohio State University, said the policy is tantamount to picking targets for the military.
I don't think the policy is tantamount to picking targets.
It's a policy decision that is properly taken at NCA level.
If the field commanders think it's a mistake, they certainly can voice their opinions to their superiors.

Anyway, it's nice to see that GWB isn't trying to do everything himself.
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."- General Sir Charles Napier

Oderint dum metuant
User avatar
David
Moderator Emeritus
Posts: 3752
Joined: 2002-07-04 03:54am
Contact:

Post by David »

And because of his position he will get the flack if a battle goes badly.
User avatar
Darth Wong
Sith Lord
Sith Lord
Posts: 70028
Joined: 2002-07-03 12:25am
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Post by Darth Wong »

This is GWB's style in general, not just in regard to military operations. He doesn't get involved in the nitty-gritty because he doesn't understand any of it. He smiles, waves at the crowd, reads the speeches written for him, and rubber-stamps his advisors' decisions.
Image
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
User avatar
Glocksman
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7233
Joined: 2002-09-03 06:43pm
Location: Mr. Five by Five

Post by Glocksman »

Yeah, that's true too. The buck stops with him.

It still beats being having the President give orders to a squad leader in battle via satellite though. :wink:
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."- General Sir Charles Napier

Oderint dum metuant
User avatar
Glocksman
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7233
Joined: 2002-09-03 06:43pm
Location: Mr. Five by Five

Post by Glocksman »

This is GWB's style in general, not just in regard to military operations. He doesn't get involved in the nitty-gritty because he doesn't understand any of it. He smiles, waves at the crowd, reads the speeches written for him, and rubber-stamps his advisors' decisions.
That's one interpretation.

The other is that he isn't afraid to delegate authority and isn't intimidated by having people as smart as or smarter than him working for him.

That's one sign of a leader.

As to which is true? I suspect a little of both.

No one man is capable of learning everything that a President needs to know about all aspects of his office. I have yet to hear about a politician who was expert on everything from Farm policy to Foreign policy to Economic policy to Defense policy to Welfare policy, etc.

Bush might just recognize his limitations and is willing to both employ experts and listen to them.

OTOH, he could just be easily manipulated as well.


The only Cabinet officers of his that I have my doubts about are Donald Rumsfeld and John Ashcroft. Rumsfeld seems to be shaping up as the Robert McNamara of the 21st century and Ashcroft doesn't seem to believe in the entire bill of rights.
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."- General Sir Charles Napier

Oderint dum metuant
User avatar
David
Moderator Emeritus
Posts: 3752
Joined: 2002-07-04 03:54am
Contact:

Post by David »

Darth Wong wrote:This is GWB's style in general, not just in regard to military operations. He doesn't get involved in the nitty-gritty because he doesn't understand any of it. He smiles, waves at the crowd, reads the speeches written for him, and rubber-stamps his advisors' decisions.


Or perhaps he realizes that he cannot be an expert at all aspects of governing a nation with hundreds of millions of people, nor can he be at all places at all times, and instead chose to pick knowledgeable advisors, well equipped to make decisions that he would make had he been in that situation.
User avatar
Darth Wong
Sith Lord
Sith Lord
Posts: 70028
Joined: 2002-07-03 12:25am
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Post by Darth Wong »

David wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:This is GWB's style in general, not just in regard to military operations. He doesn't get involved in the nitty-gritty because he doesn't understand any of it. He smiles, waves at the crowd, reads the speeches written for him, and rubber-stamps his advisors' decisions.
Or perhaps he realizes that he cannot be an expert at all aspects of governing a nation with hundreds of millions of people, nor can he be at all places at all times, and instead chose to pick knowledgeable advisors, well equipped to make decisions that he would make had he been in that situation.
Ever since he was governer of Texas, reporters have noted that he has trouble giving concrete answers to specific questions in relation to other politicians. Yes, he can't know everything. But the fact that he generally knows less about what's going on than others who have had the same job is indicative of a knowledge gap, not a "knows how to delegate" skill.
Image
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
User avatar
Ender
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11323
Joined: 2002-07-30 11:12pm
Location: Illinois

Post by Ender »

I just skipped every post in the thread, and the article, simply to comment on the thread title:

What leadership style? He's got nothing. God I wish McCain was the Commander in Chief.
بيرني كان سيفوز
*
Nuclear Navy Warwolf
*
in omnibus requiem quaesivi, et nusquam inveni nisi in angulo cum libro
*
ipsa scientia potestas est
Nathan F
Resident Redneck
Posts: 4979
Joined: 2002-09-10 08:01am
Location: Around the corner
Contact:

Post by Nathan F »

Darth Wong wrote:This is GWB's style in general, not just in regard to military operations. He doesn't get involved in the nitty-gritty because he doesn't understand any of it. He smiles, waves at the crowd, reads the speeches written for him, and rubber-stamps his advisors' decisions.
Is it not a good quality for a leader to know when to delgate authority to those who are qualified to handle it more than he? I think that it shows that he isn't one of the presidents who thinks that he can handle everything, that he is one that isn't afraid to say that he doesn't know the answer, but someone else might.
User avatar
Glocksman
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7233
Joined: 2002-09-03 06:43pm
Location: Mr. Five by Five

Post by Glocksman »

What leadership style? He's got nothing. God I wish McCain was the Commander in Chief.
Old flip-flop, self-aggrandizing John McCain???

Riiight... :roll:
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."- General Sir Charles Napier

Oderint dum metuant
User avatar
Darth Wong
Sith Lord
Sith Lord
Posts: 70028
Joined: 2002-07-03 12:25am
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Post by Darth Wong »

Glocksman wrote:
What leadership style? He's got nothing. God I wish McCain was the Commander in Chief.
Old flip-flop, self-aggrandizing John McCain???
I'd prefer a guy who can change his mind over one whose mind is simply weak (or dogmatic). And John McCain didn't go AWOL, nor did he choose to bravely defend Texas against the Viet Cong as a way of avoiding the front lines. This would give him a lot more credibility when saying that he knows what war is and that he wouldn't subject people to it without just cause. I'm also sure he wouldn't have been as arrogant and hamfisted in the diplomatic arena as GWB.
Image
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
User avatar
Ender
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11323
Joined: 2002-07-30 11:12pm
Location: Illinois

Post by Ender »

Darth Wong wrote:
Glocksman wrote:
What leadership style? He's got nothing. God I wish McCain was the Commander in Chief.
Old flip-flop, self-aggrandizing John McCain???
I'd prefer a guy who can change his mind over one whose mind is simply weak (or dogmatic). And John McCain didn't go AWOL, nor did he choose to bravely defend Texas against the Viet Cong as a way of avoiding the front lines. This would give him a lot more credibility when saying that he knows what war is and that he wouldn't subject people to it without just cause. I'm also sure he wouldn't have been as arrogant and hamfisted in the diplomatic arena as GWB.
What can I say but "Ditto". When it came time to stand and deliver, McCain was there while Bush was drunk off his ass. And franky I think the strength of his character is what we need right now. If nothing else he would not have pissed off the international community as badly.
بيرني كان سيفوز
*
Nuclear Navy Warwolf
*
in omnibus requiem quaesivi, et nusquam inveni nisi in angulo cum libro
*
ipsa scientia potestas est
User avatar
Glocksman
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7233
Joined: 2002-09-03 06:43pm
Location: Mr. Five by Five

Post by Glocksman »

I'm also sure he wouldn't have been as arrogant and hamfisted in the diplomatic arena as GWB.
I don't know about that. McCain is pretty arrogant himself.


I will grant you that bit about their respective military records, though.
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."- General Sir Charles Napier

Oderint dum metuant
User avatar
MKSheppard
Ruthless Genocidal Warmonger
Ruthless Genocidal Warmonger
Posts: 29842
Joined: 2002-07-06 06:34pm

Post by MKSheppard »

Glocksman wrote: I will grant you that bit about their respective military records, though.
It was McCain's own Zuni Rocket that started the Forrestal fire. :cry:
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong

"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
User avatar
NecronLord
Harbinger of Doom
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 27384
Joined: 2002-07-07 06:30am
Location: The Lost City

Post by NecronLord »

I've said it before. Amend your constitution and elect Arnold.....
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
User avatar
Patrick Degan
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 14847
Joined: 2002-07-15 08:06am
Location: Orleanian in exile

Post by Patrick Degan »

MKSheppard wrote:
Glocksman wrote: I will grant you that bit about their respective military records, though.
It was McCain's own Zuni Rocket that started the Forrestal fire. :cry:
Not correct. The Zuni was fired from an F4 Phantom across the deck. It was, rather, McCain's A4 Skyhawk which was hit by the Zuni.

http://www.virtualwall.org/df/FarrierGW01a.htm

The ship was preparing to launch a major strike, and many fully fueled and armed aircraft were parked about the deck. At 10:52 AM a 5" ZUNI rocket accidentally fired from a F-4 Phantom parked on the starboard side of the ship and pointed inboard. The rocket impacted an armed A-4 Skyhawk (piloted by then-LCDR, now Senator, John McCain) parked on the port side.

McCain was almost killed and his squadron was rendered non-operational. He volunteered to transfer to another squadron, was promptly shot down, and wound up spending five years of his life locked up in a box in Hanoi.
Post Reply