With a title like that, you know Nitram's up to something. And I am, an old, crazy theological mental exercise: Can I prove Christianity is a polytheistic religion, and their God merely engages in a big of a high-risk wager by claiming to be the one and all? And who would guess a thread titled Satan vs. Clthulhu would get me to see a reference that confirms my old theory: http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/gods.html
Okay, two trends: One, when we are to believe God is dictating or one of those who received a vision is dictating, there are references to other deities(Genesis, Exodus, Zeph). But when his mortal agents are trying to convert mortals, guess what? They claim he's the one and only! Divine politics? Could be. Could be Christianity is more like Omianism than even Prachett intended.
Anyway. It's the usual 'Well, if the bible were true, this would be wierd' comment, much like the discussions of Hell and Satan's morality. Discuss.
Manic Progressive: A liberal who violently swings from anger at politicos to despondency over them.
Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.
SirNitram wrote:With a title like that, you know Nitram's up to something. And I am, an old, crazy theological mental exercise: Can I prove Christianity is a polytheistic religion, and their God merely engages in a big of a high-risk wager by claiming to be the one and all? And who would guess a thread titled Satan vs. Clthulhu would get me to see a reference that confirms my old theory: http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/gods.html
Okay, two trends: One, when we are to believe God is dictating or one of those who received a vision is dictating, there are references to other deities(Genesis, Exodus, Zeph). But when his mortal agents are trying to convert mortals, guess what? They claim he's the one and only! Divine politics? Could be. Could be Christianity is more like Omianism than even Prachett intended.
Anyway. It's the usual 'Well, if the bible were true, this would be wierd' comment, much like the discussions of Hell and Satan's morality. Discuss.
I was handed a track once by a Pagan friend of mine. I've o clue where he got it, but it was a Pagan's answer to the little tracks/pamphets put out by the Mormans. The story inside has two pagans talking to the visiting Jehovah's and showing the scripture in the Bible that mentioned multiple gods, prolly the same ones Nitram found.
Wish I could find some of those.
Nitram, slightly high on cough syrup: Do you know you're beautiful?
Me: Nope, that's why I have you around to tell me.
Nitram: You -are- beautiful. Anyone tries to tell you otherwise kill them.
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP" -- Leonard Nimoy, last Tweet
The Genesis/John quotes: it should be noted that the practice of referrening to oneself in the plural among royalty (and equivalents) is very ancient. I know it was sometimes used among Roman emperors, but I believe it was much older than that, at least dating back to ancient Babylon. I wouldn't be suprised if the Hebrews also had this practice. Regardless, the Christian pseudo-plurality of the Trinity alone is adequate here.
However, for the majority of the quotes, I don't see how even a skilled apologist could possibly wiggle his way out of it. It's pretty clear that in Exodus God is punishing not just the Egyptian peoples, but also the Egyptian gods themselves.
"The fool saith in his heart that there is no empty set. But if that were so, then the set of all such sets would be empty, and hence it would be the empty set." -- Wesley Salmon
Voltaire himself already mocked the religion in his book about religion (I have no idea how it was called in english, God and Religion ? something like that) Already pointed out a passagem in the OT showing the hebrews still believed in the power of other gods.
And that is pretty much true, their God is the better God of all. They always acted like this (that is why also they have not the duality of catholic myth between God and Satan. It was a ridiculous idea to them to imagine ever someone great enough to even been a enemy to their god. ) but their religion was yet monotheist, as to those who believed in that religion could have only one god to be followed. There is no new that only Christians lately started to first to dismiss any power other gods.
Muffin is food. Food is good. I am a Muffin. I am good.
lgot wrote:And that is pretty much true, their God is the better God of all. They always acted like this (that is why also they have not the duality of catholic myth between God and Satan. It was a ridiculous idea to them to imagine ever someone great enough to even been a enemy to their god. ) but their religion was yet monotheist, as to those who believed in that religion could have only one god to be followed. There is no new that only Christians lately started to first to dismiss any power other gods.
It's not that simple (if I am interpreting you correctly). The Hebrews started out polytheistic, then started the national cult of YHWH, and gradually developed true monotheism. Their exposure to Zoroastrianism under the Persians would have given them both the ideas of true monotheism and a Christian-like dualism. By the time Christianity appeared, there were probably many Jews who still believed in the existence of other gods, but the official line was that YHWH was the only one who was real.
"Can you eat quarks? Can you spread them on your bed when the cold weather comes?" -Bernard Levin
"Sir: Mr. Bernard Levin asks 'Can you eat quarks?' I estimate that he eats 500,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,001 quarks a day...Yours faithfully..." -Sir Alan Cottrell
Elohim's loving mercy: "Hey, you, don't turn around. WTF! I said DON'T tur- you know what, you're a pillar of salt now. Bitch." - an anonymous commenter
well, there is some theories that link the monotheism influence to much early period, probally some influece of egypt Akenathon (Some Psalms keep great resemblance with his sayings).
but the politheist period was too early and yeah, they had this period. I am just making reference to the politheist period and official word not to the probally presence of minor idols among the hebrews during christ period.
Muffin is food. Food is good. I am a Muffin. I am good.
Nope, they cared very little for "the devil" in the OT and they are well aware that the pagan deties or other deties are servers of themselves and the different adversaries they had.
It is even truth, that Catholic Church first deal with the paganism was not with the "satanism" accusation, but much more of the "ignorance and conversion" it was only later the Catholic church did a movement that turned all the belief in the pagan culture and deties in a trick of Satan and thus they started the worst period of inquisition, but that took some long time to happen officially inside all catholic church.
Muffin is food. Food is good. I am a Muffin. I am good.
The OT often shows God ranting about how his people must not serve Baal or any of a number of other gods. It does not say that they don't exist; it just says that his people must not serve them, sacrifice to them, etc.
I especially like the parts where it rants about how evil followers of other religions sacrifice babies to their gods, while praising Abraham for being willing to do the same thing
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
and elijah toasted a whole bunch of them heathens.
This day is Fantastic!
Myers Briggs: ENTJ
Political Compass: -3/-6 DOOMerWoW
"I really hate it when the guy you were pegging as Mr. Worst Case starts saying, "Oh, I was wrong, it's going to be much worse." " - Adrian Laguna
Darth Wong wrote:The OT often shows God ranting about how his people must not serve Baal or any of a number of other gods. It does not say that they don't exist; it just says that his people must not serve them, sacrifice to them, etc.
I especially like the parts where it rants about how evil followers of other religions sacrifice babies to their gods, while praising Abraham for being willing to do the same thing
Quite. But we know the Christian God is more egocentric than a black hole.
The interesting bit to me is the implications of his threats to other deities. When he was still just Moses' little friend, he was capable of harming the Eygptian Deities.. Or so he boasted. Of more interest to me, is the threat to 'famine' all other gods.. It seems to tie into my long-standing hypothesis that if Gods exist, they feed off of worship and belief focused on them. A Famine brought down by the Christian God could either be what's happening now(All other deities have lost so much worship as to become non-factors.. Zeus hasn't had a decent miracle since Constantine), or a threat to kill all humans and forever remove the belief source(But this would be suicide, wouldn't it?). Anyway, it interested me alot. But maybe I'm wierd.
Manic Progressive: A liberal who violently swings from anger at politicos to despondency over them.
Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.
On the topic of religion, I'll just quote Ozzy: There Are No Unbeatable Odds
There Are No Believable Gods
There Are No Unnameable Names,
Shall I Say It Again, Yeah
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who did not.
