Simon_Jester wrote: ↑2018-03-23 02:31pmMe, well, in the words of Dirty Harry, "man's got to know his limitations."
I have loyalties and obligations. My wife is my highest priority in the world. My wife, through very good and compelling reasons, has problems with dogs. If I were king of the world, and she wanted dogs outlawed, I'd do it (see second sentence).
I'm pretty sure that means I shouldn't be king of the world.
Yes, human beings should not be trusted with absolute power. Ever.
Ideally, you try to set up some sort of system with checks and balances, including a big damn hammer to come down on those who don't respect those checks and balances.
Zixinus wrote: ↑2018-03-23 04:27pm
There is one thing I'd do, if it is feasible: donate organs. They'll just regrow. It can make money if necessary or for charity.
This is a good idea, but risks exposure.
It would, however, provide a potential source of funding for my larger plans, in addition to helping the innocent. Tempting.
That's the thing. It's not just any crazy dipshit's power fantasy. It's some supernatural entity's little game made with humans by using it power to make Immortals.
You are not saying "fuck you" to people. You are very possibly saying it to a god, who technically saved you from death and thus live an immortal life due to it.
This is something I really want to clarify: is "The Game" an invention by humans who are exploiting a quirk of immortal biology, or something mandated by a supreme being that all immortals must participate in or die? Or something in between?
If the second one, then Highlander God is evil, I guess?
But we do see that there is some latitude in how people approach the Game. Alliances are possible. Trying to walk away, or letting someone else take you out to defeat a mutual opponent, are possible. There are certain rules that can be implemented, or broken. Whatever we're dealing with, there seems to at least be somewhat negotiable/mutable.
If you want to fuck with that god, I'll cheer you. From a distance. Personally, I'd contact the Watchers and study this more and if necessary, devote my immortal life (as long as it may last) to learning just what is behind the Game before I try to fuck with it. The only way to truly end the Game is to go to the source of what is driving it. For example, just how many new immortals are there? If there are constantly new immortals for every new dead one, then the Game is eternal and cannot be won. If there are fewer and fewer, then it means that the Game has some sort of end point.
Studying the Game first is not a bad idea. Nor is building an alliance/power base before moving. You have eternity to work with, unless someone assassinates you. You can afford to make sure you have all your ducks in a row before moving.
Something that cheap, relatively speaking, will just not be enough. You are not targeted at random. You are targeted specifically and you will always be a target. Immortals know when other immortals are present, they feel a Buzz that indicates the presence of another. The only way you can live, whether you choose to chop off heads or not, is be able to fight.
You insist upon treating "The Game" as some sort of infallible system that can never be subverted and who's rules and traditions must be perfectly adhered to by every immortal. You have not explained to my satisfaction why that must be presumed to be the case.
No, its not a perfect guarantee. Neither is learning how to sword fight, especially against people who've been doing it far longer than I have. There are no guarantees of perfect safety in life. I could stay inside a panic room 24/7, and drop dead of a brain aneurism tomorrow. At least as an immortal, I have only one kind of danger to have to guard against, and while there is no perfect security, every defense helps.
You also do not grasp the point of an honorable duel: it is to minimize violence and give both sides a fair fight. It's not actually a supernaturally-enforced part of the Game, it is not enforced by the supernatural power involved like the Sacred Ground rule.
Right. A "fair fight" against people who've had centuries or millennia to practice their swordsmanship, and have lived that long by being really fucking good at it.
No thanks.
I get the point, and it has some merit in terms of reducing collateral damage. But its also a good way to get myself killed so someone else can eat my essence and get even better at killing people. Again, no thanks.
Actually, the older immortals probably not only SEEN war but BEEN in wars that you only read about. Or never read about. Where do you think they learned and practiced their centuries of swordsmanship? Remember these are people that died somehow to find out they're immortal, likely in said wars (Duncan McLoad was one). They know things about war that you only know in abstract or not at all. It is very likely that they learned swordsmanship, and other methods of fighting war, well before they became immortal.
And this is a reason why I should engage them in a "fair" fight, how?
I mean, I won't be fighting them at all if I can help it. Not directly, and not indirectly until I've done a great deal of research and training, accumulated allies, and stacked the deck as much as possible against them.
But if I do end up having one of the jackasses come after, I'm going to do everything in my power to win. Including cheating.
Enter this thinking that all the other immortals are savage, sociopathic, idiotic madman mindlessly addicted to the rush of the Quickening will only ensure that the first one will kill you. Those are quickly killed by the wiser, cooler-head, rational and perhaps more decently-human immortals.
This is not some secret club of serial killers that kills helpless bystanders for some made-up bullshit with no proof other than say-so. The honorable duel part is there to deliberately reduce the possibility of innocents dying as part of the Game. No, the immortals kill EACH OTHER as a rule and new invitations are handed out by the driving supernatural force. Many of them don't LIKE the Game but play it because they HAVE to because the aggressors will come to them or just stumble upon them (ask Duncan McLoad, the poor guy can't help finding one every other episode), the Gathering(s) will compel them.
Some of the Immortals may be serial killers but not as a rule, not caused by the supernatural force. The selection process is mostly unknown.
I never suggested that their all "savage, sociopathic, idiotic madman mindlessly addicted to the rush of the Quickening". I do not, however, think terribly highly of the conscience of anyone who will participate in a blood sport for any reason other than self-defense after being drafted into it against their will.
From the wiki, it is possible to turn down a challenge and walk away. One of the longest living immortals mentioned by the wiki was Methos, who actively avoided fighting and only fought when absolutely necessary.
Which again goes to show that the game is mutable and negotiable.
No, it's some vague supernatural entity that's fucking with humans. There's a difference. You are in much, much deeper shit than you think.
And yet, by your own admission, this supernatural force will allow the humans involved to walk away, to make alliances, to avoid a fight if they want to. In other words, these people appear to still have free will, and can make choices as to how they relate to "The Game". So without more evidence, I do not accept that I have no choice but to play the Game and kill other immortals, or that other immortals have no choice but to do so.
The fact that the Power exists and empowers Immortals, and empowers new Immortals and creates Gatherings, is quite telling that there is some kind of divine force involved.
Not really. It proves that there is some supernatural phenomenon which results in certain people becoming immortal, and allows some of that power to be transfered to another immortal under certain conditions.
It proves the existence of magic. It does not prove that that magic has any intent, nor what its intent might ultimately be, nor that it cannot be tampered with, nor that it rises to a level that could be considered "divine", unless you have additional evidence which has not yet been provided.
The fact that holy sites are protected indicates this too and actually makes a compelling argument for divine mandate of some kind. Just because angels do not come down singing it out does not mean that the implications are not clear.
That is a very serious point, but it cuts both ways. The fact that the Quickening will not work on Holy Ground could just as well be taken as proof of God's condemnation of the Game, as of God's endorsement of it. I mean, we don't take the whole "crosses repel vampires" thing as proof that God is fond of vampires, do we?
You can still say it is wrong to do this, that the gods should not be allowed and try to turn over the board. But if you want to do that you better be prepared to pay the price for it.
I agree that careful research should precede any major move.
Because that's what the mechanics of the Game indicate and that is what Immortals know. It was never stated exactly how they know, the TV series and movie (I suspect) deliberately did not go into , but it is very likely that they know as part of the Quickening (the latter is speculation on my part).
Then enquiring of multiple unrelated immortals (risky*, I know) is a good idea. If "There can be only one" is some sort of fated decree... well, is there also a mandate about how long that has to take, or how we have to reach that point? Evidently not, or at least there is some flexibility.
Maybe in a hundred thousand years all the immortals will die but one. That doesn't concern me. I'll likely have committed suicide out of boredom by then**, if an assassin doesn't get me first. But as long as I'm here, I'll try to put the Game into indefinite half-time.
*Preferably not enquiring face-to-face.
**Actually, I oppose suicide in real life as a rule, but allowing for some form of sanctioned assisted suicide for immortals might not be a bad idea. I'm hesitant to allow other immortals to be the ones to carry out the "assisted" part due to conflict of interest/coercion issues, but it could provide a way to turn the Game into a more positive force- have sanctioned assisted suicide for elderly immortals who are tired of living, with the Quickening being a way to preserve their memories and knowledge after they pass on.
Allowing even more regulated consensual duels (with both parties having to consent and an impartial moderator/referee) under specific circumstances might be another option, though one I do not care for, and would accept only as a temporary political compromise.
There are very likely are. The TV show actually shown quite a number of them, according to a brief reading of the wiki. The problem is that if you want to remain alive you have to be able to fight, and if necessary play the Game, to survive. Those that commit to the Game will kill those that forsake it. Many immortals try to live out and make a life outside the Game, but the Game will chase them down.
I have no objection to self-defense against an attacker. And part of my reasoning behind "create a nation of immortals who forsake the Game" is to provide
collective self-defense against the Gamers.
Kind of like how ancient man might have banded together into fortified settlements in order to provide mutual defense from wild beasts and marauding raiders.
I think you'll be busy staying alive against the older immortals, never mind get as far as to run for President.
Ah, well. I'll have to try to stay alive anyway. Having loftier goals gives me a purpose for the millennia to come, and some greater meaning to my life than "survival for the sake of survival".
If you decide to reveal immortals to the world and upset the game, I think it's safe to say you'll be too busy fighting to survive. Not necessarily other immortals, mind you.
Its not something that's first or second on my list of options. More like the MAD option if everything else has failed, and even then, I'd probably hesitate to use it.
Though, if I ever got my Immortal nation off the ground, I might put that out there to any immortals who tried to attack it: "Here's my proof of the existence of immortality. On my signal it will be sent to the governments of all major world powers. So remember: if I go down, I'm going to drag you fuckers kicking and screaming into the light of day before I go."
Remember, you cannot die but otherwise you are mortal and not at all superhuman. You can be buried alive.
Ugg.
Thanks for the reminder. I think I'll just install a hidden tracking device on my person, by which any allies I acquire can locate me if something like this happens. Maybe two of them in different places, just to be safe.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver
"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.
I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
Though theoretically one could conduct experiments in a more human manner than eternal imprisonment.