The Wargame for the attack on Iraq may have been rigged.

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Glocksman
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The Wargame for the attack on Iraq may have been rigged.

Post by Glocksman »

Army Times Story from last August.
The most elaborate war game the U.S. military has ever held was rigged so that it appeared to validate the modern, joint-service war-fighting concepts it was supposed to be testing, according to the retired Marine lieutenant general who commanded the game’s Opposing Force.
That general, Paul Van Riper, said he worries the United States will send troops into combat using doctrine and weapons systems based on false conclusions from the recently concluded Millennium Challenge 02. He was so frustrated with the rigged exercise that he said he quit midway through the game.
Retired Ambassador Robert Oakley, who participated in the experiment as Red civilian leader, said Van Riper was outthinking the Blue Force from the first day of the exercise.

Van Riper used motorcycle messengers to transmit orders, negating Blue’s high-tech eavesdropping capabilities, Oakley said. Then, when the Blue fleet sailed into the Persian Gulf early in the experiment, Van Riper’s forces surrounded the ships with small boats and planes sailing and flying in apparently innocuous circles.

There's more in the article.

This is outrageous and is a perfect example of a bureaucracy protecting itself at the expense of those who are sent to do the job.


General Van Riper seems almost prophetic:
This is exactly what Van Riper feared would happen. “My main concern was we’d see future forces trying to use these things when they’ve never been properly grounded in any sort of an experiment,” he said.
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Post by Enforcer Talen »

old article from the slam forum. it's validity was doubted.
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Post by Companion Cube »

And now those Bureaucrats are costing men their lives.... :x
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Post by Glocksman »

old article from the slam forum.
Oops. :oops:
it's validity was doubted.
I don't doubt it at all. There's been too many stories since before Vietnam of the ineptitude of much of the top brass.

This story was also reported on last September in the Guardian.
While I disagree with the Guardian's editorial policies, their reportage is fairly good, if somewhat slanted.

Like I said in an earlier thread,. Rumsfeld is beginning to look like Robert McNamara.
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Post by BlkbrryTheGreat »

If you want a good expamle of the Army buearuacracy in action watch the movie "Pentagon Wars". Its about the creation of the Bradley fighting vechile.... im sure watching it will give anyone in the armed forces goose bumps when they realize that this is the system that their lives depend upon. (the army bureaucracy, not the bradley)
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Post by IRG CommandoJoe »

You mean that movie was actually non-fictional???
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Post by Vympel »

You mean that movie was actually non-fictional???
It was based off a non-fiction book of the same name written by the Colonel played by Cary Ewles in the movie- naturally, it amalgamates many bureaucrats into a few key people, make things a lot funnier, etc etc, but the Bradely program was still a fuck-up of the first order.

it's validity was doubted
Validity of the test, or the article? Because that article's story was repeated all over the place, and Van Riper *did* leave in disgust.
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Post by Sokar »

IRG CommandoJoe wrote:You mean that movie was actually non-fictional???
Its pretty close to the actuall fight over the Bradley....even today in an even fight they would probably earn the name "Purple Heart Boxes" in a hurry, but then the Marder or the BMP series is just as dangerous....

This story is old news, the Army regularly riggs its wargames exercises, and commanders who are inventive and creative are rapidly shot down by the 'impartial' referees. Despite what we all want to believe , the Army is not nearly as 'professional' as they would have you believe. the infighting between services , and within each services command structure can be more vicious that the worst capitol hill politcal fight.
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Post by Companion Cube »

What was this thing about the Bradley IFV? I never heard anything about that before. :? :?:
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Post by Vympel »

3rd Impact wrote:What was this thing about the Bradley IFV? I never heard anything about that before. :? :?:
Just took almost 20 years and about 14 billion dollars to get it to the troops- in original, unupgraded form, mind you- there was nothing to justify that exorbitant cost.

It's as decent an IFV as any other now- none of them will be resisting much on the modern battlefield, mind you (adjust for how old the weapons are on the other side, however).
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Post by Companion Cube »

Oh, ok. Thanks for the info Vympel.
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Post by The Duchess of Zeon »

The plan devised by that wargame is no longer valid, regardless of if it was rigged or not. Franks held out for more troops - part of the reason for the delay - in a rather extensive fight with Pentagon officials. That's why we have 250,000 troops committed instead of 100,000. This war is being fought at least partially conventionally thanks to him and we can applaud him for his determination.
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Post by Axis Kast »

Van Riper's case is an old one. It was being circulated as early as late summer or early fall of 2001.

Certain of this "prophetic" strategist's suggestions were wrong. In the wargame, mind you, he managed to sink numerous American fighting ships by deploying land-based missiles and speedboats packed with suicide bombers.

We took what we could from the simulation and then reorganized.
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Post by Lonestar »

Don't have anything to add here other than General Van Riper was my Scoutmaster when I lived in Camp Lejune. :)
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