Avengers: Infinity War (massive spoilers!)

[Grand Moff Yenchin]

I think there is no excuse for Wakanda's lack of modern tactics besides for the sake of Hollywood cool. Wakanda has been in seclusion but it's not like the developments of modern war would go neglected. The scene showed that Wakanda doesn't even have reasonable tactics against a full fronted massive infantry charge.

As for the film, while I enjoyed it, it seemed that some possibilities missed, some characters not up to my personal biased expectations. I didn't quite like the part where Dr. Strange was kidnapped and not doing much, as well as Spidey's position in the current MCU. Stark's nanosuit, as cool as it was, seemed to lack some level of character in it since now he could pull out an overload of stuff from the suit. I expected more from Cap during the Wakanda battle. Black Widow didn't seem to have much, likely to make way for Scarlet Witch & Vision's scenes.

Thor's part was definitely my favorite in the film. While I enjoyed Ragnarok, I was not quite used to the tone it presented. In this film the seriousness and humor was more balanced.

Still as whole liked it. Can't wait for Avengers 4.

[Knife]

I just never expect good infantry tactics in a movie and move on. Once in a long while I get surprised, Tears of the Sun was the last time I was surprised. Anyway, yeah I liked it a lot. For someone who really didn't like the Thor movies until Ragnarok, I do really like the Thor character. I cracked up every time he had a line with "Rabbit" in it.

That said, was a bit of a whole when he spent most the movie wanting to fight Thantos and the one time it would have meant something he was flying around the battle field killing pawns. Bit of a waste.

I also love Spiderman's humor and all the, basically you're all old jokes with movie references. That said, all the spidie suits basically being Iron Man light suits kind of miffs me too.

And I do think they struggle sometimes, with too many good characters, to find stuff for everyone to do. All and all though, I really did like the film.

[NeoGoomba]

Fanboy me still needs Cap to wield Stormbreaker at the end of Avengers 4, since Mjolnir is no more. At least they could have had him solo Proxima Midnight.

And I fucking loved his "I'm not asking for forgiveness, and I'm done asking for permission" line.

[amigocabal]

Spoiler

This film had the darkest ending of any film I have seen.

Just think of it. A death toll in the quintillions, if not more. Add to that collateral damage from crashed vehicles ranging from primitive cars to multi-mile long spacecraft, and that adds at least quadrillions to the death toll.

[Q99]

I think there is no excuse for Wakanda's lack of modern tactics besides for the sake of Hollywood cool. Wakanda has been in seclusion but it's not like the developments of modern war would go neglected. The scene showed that Wakanda doesn't even have reasonable tactics against a full fronted massive infantry charge.

Though, think about it, modern tactics would not be good against each other. They've got bulletproof clothing, their shields block even their sonics cold, try and use 'modern' tactics in a Wakandan vs Wakandan clash and they would do very poorly.

'Modern' infantry tactics is a bit of a misnomer- rather, we use tactics that best suit our weapons. If you tried to use tactics meant for AKs and M-16s with Napoleon weapons against Napoleonic tactics, the Napoleon tactics would win hands down because that's what works with their weaponry. Wakandans being more melee focus fits their kit because their kit gives them a massively more defensive bent than ours, a cape-shield will no-sell so much ranged weaponry. So in short, they have tactics for fighting each other/the Jabari, probably a lot of training in covert 'pick people off in the jungle silently' skills, and that's like, the third/fourth line of defense anyway, behind the stealth field that denies opponents even their basic location, the dome shield which is seriously beastly, it takes sustained pressure to get through so bombardment or artillery wouldn't work, and their network of spies and agents.

That said, starting out they did have a phalanx formation with spears behind firing sonic blasts. Wish they'd stuck with that more.

[NecronLord]

I think there is no excuse for Wakanda's lack of modern tactics besides for the sake of Hollywood cool. Wakanda has been in seclusion but it's not like the developments of modern war would go neglected. The scene showed that Wakanda doesn't even have reasonable tactics against a full fronted massive infantry charge.

Though, think about it, modern tactics would not be good against each other. They've got bulletproof clothing, their shields block even their sonics cold, try and use 'modern' tactics in a Wakandan vs Wakandan clash and they would do very poorly.

They've also got no head protection and no pouches in which it could be plausibly kept. Two dozen sarin shells; casualties - total. Except perhaps T'challa himself and even that is reaching.

[Crazedwraith]

Calling that an Avengers film was an exercise in marketing. It is a film version of an event comic.

Its not bad but its not Avengers. And ultimately Thanos getting the gauntlet was a foregone conclusion. So yeah... 2 hours 40 of grim deaths, explosions and treading water.

And they are going to have a hell of a time fitting Captain Marvel into continuity as an established figure.

[Solauren]

Captain Marvel: Did something cool once, was covered up, and living a quiet life. Was about to intercede in both Avengers movies but didn't have to.

[Rhadamantus]

It was somehow darker than I expected.

[Gaidin]

They've also got no head protection and no pouches in which it could be plausibly kept. Two dozen sarin shells; casualties - total. Except perhaps T'challa himself and even that is reaching.

That's classic movie meme. T'Challa was the only one with a legit costume with full helmet where one can easily pull Black Panther out of a crowd. Even Captain America was in a form that wasn't using a helmet at the moment. Movies always drop helmets for telling people apart. In this case so you can tell the good guys from the aliens easily in a crowd. When they focus in on a character fighting multiple aliens its so you can pull the character out of the mob.

[Vendetta]

And they are going to have a hell of a time fitting Captain Marvel into continuity as an established figure.

Chances are she's off in space having space adventures. The Captain Marvel movie is, IIRC, going to include the Kree-Skrull war.

[Elheru Aran]

They've also got no head protection and no pouches in which it could be plausibly kept. Two dozen sarin shells; casualties - total. Except perhaps T'challa himself and even that is reaching.

That's classic movie meme. T'Challa was the only one with a legit costume with full helmet where one can easily pull Black Panther out of a crowd. Even Captain America was in a form that wasn't using a helmet at the moment. Movies always drop helmets for telling people apart. In this case so you can tell the good guys from the aliens easily in a crowd. When they focus in on a character fighting multiple aliens its so you can pull the character out of the mob.

Re pouches: while it may not look like it, African garb can and does include flat pouches between the layers of fabric used in the traditional costume, often quite surprisingly voluminous.

I suspect that a big part of the situation was that they simply didn't quite know what they were facing, and the Wakandans specifically may not have fought a pitched war in decades. Minor internecine conflicts over royal succession or inter-tribal fights, sure, but that's with technological parity.

It looked to me like they saw they were probably going to lose anyway given the number of outriders they were facing, and decided to take the fight to the enemy. Tactically wise? Hell no. Morale wise... perhaps better to charge headlong into the fight rather than stand waiting for them to come at you?

I did note that the numbers the Wakandans mustered didn't seem very large. A few hundred? One would think they could do better, but they did have pretty short notice.

[Gaidin]

I did note that the numbers the Wakandans mustered didn't seem very large. A few hundred? One would think they could do better, but they did have pretty short notice.

One problem here is that Wakanda had to wreck two tribes minimum in Black Panther so their numbers may not have been up to par. Nevermind tribal specialties(remember the rhinos?). Given the fairly recent battle in Black Panther, a few tribes could've still been in recovery.

[Eternal_Freedom]

The other thought that occurs is that T'Challa says "activate all defences" (emphasis mine), but we only see the energy shield. Surely they had something else? Didn't they have flying gunship thingies in Black Panther? A few of those would have helped quite nicely.

[Gaidin]

That's the catch. We have a fairly big space based attack, and we can make a few assumptions since we know at least one character managed to get into the lab by at least stealth-based means. The question is if they attacked on more than one front but we only watched the front the characters were on. They never went into the details on the actual terrain surrounding the city.

[Lost Soal]

They had flyers shooting the landers during the attempted retreat.

[Elheru Aran]

I did note that the numbers the Wakandans mustered didn't seem very large. A few hundred? One would think they could do better, but they did have pretty short notice.

One problem here is that Wakanda had to wreck two tribes minimum in Black Panther so their numbers may not have been up to par. Nevermind tribal specialties(remember the rhinos?). Given the fairly recent battle in Black Panther, a few tribes could've still been in recovery.

Good point. Though I will note that given Wakandan medical science (capable of treating serious spinal trauma within hours) there were probably a lot less fatalities than we might have thought in that battle.

That said, how long ago exactly was that? Black Panther IIRC only occurs a few weeks, at the very most, after Civil War. What's the timespan between Civil War, Spider-Man, Black Panther, and Infinity War Pt 1?

[EnterpriseSovereign]

I did note that the numbers the Wakandans mustered didn't seem very large. A few hundred? One would think they could do better, but they did have pretty short notice.

One problem here is that Wakanda had to wreck two tribes minimum in Black Panther so their numbers may not have been up to par. Nevermind tribal specialties(remember the rhinos?). Given the fairly recent battle in Black Panther, a few tribes could've still been in recovery.

Good point. Though I will note that given Wakandan medical science (capable of treating serious spinal trauma within hours) there were probably a lot less fatalities than we might have thought in that battle.

That said, how long ago exactly was that? Black Panther IIRC only occurs a few weeks, at the very most, after Civil War. What's the timespan between Civil War, Spider-Man, Black Panther, and Infinity War Pt 1?

The problem with that is, Homecoming threw a huge wrench into the works by allegedly being set eight years after Avengers, instead of five. Though we didn't see it onscreen, it would appear the Wakandans fixed Rhodey's injuries since he was fighting fit as War Machine when the battle started. Speaking of whom, why he didn't give Cap his shield back when the latter showed up when he was in that holo-meeting? Unless he didn't want to undermine Tony's wanting it back, though that was only Stark being an asshole than anything else.

[Lost Soal]

The problem with that is, Homecoming threw a huge wrench into the works by allegedly being set eight years after Avengers, instead of five. Though we didn't see it onscreen, it would appear the Wakandans fixed Rhodey's injuries since he was fighting fit as War Machine when the battle started. Speaking of whom, why he didn't give Cap his shield back when the latter showed up when he was in that holo-meeting? Unless he didn't want to undermine Tony's wanting it back, though that was only Stark being an asshole than anything else.

He was moving perfectly fine before that, there's no reason to assume anything more than the unit Tony built has been fine tured and Rodey has learnt to use them properly,
As for timline, Wanda and Vison have been an item for two years and I'm pretty sure they weren't together until after civil war

[EnterpriseSovereign]

The problem with that is, Homecoming threw a huge wrench into the works by allegedly being set eight years after Avengers, instead of five. Though we didn't see it onscreen, it would appear the Wakandans fixed Rhodey's injuries since he was fighting fit as War Machine when the battle started. Speaking of whom, why he didn't give Cap his shield back when the latter showed up when he was in that holo-meeting? Unless he didn't want to undermine Tony's wanting it back, though that was only Stark being an asshole than anything else.

He was moving perfectly fine before that, there's no reason to assume anything more than the unit Tony built has been fine tured and Rodey has learnt to use them properly,
As for timline, Wanda and Vison have been an item for two years and I'm pretty sure they weren't together until after civil war

And given Tony's injuries were still evident in Homecoming, that means Parker has had his first Stark-built spider-suit for at least that long, as has Aunt May known his secret identity.

They really had to nerf Vision since he was one of the most powerful avengers until that underling got the drop on him. Did anyone else think that Hulk used up all his screentime in Ragnarok and so had almost nothing left for IW? I'd have thought after getting his ass kicked so quickly by Thanos he'd be more eager for a rematch, since the longer a fight goes on the angrier (and stronger) he becomes.

I'd have liked to know more about Thanos' underlings and their powers, since they were all powerful in their own right (each needing the combined efforts of multiple heroes to bring down), which just highlights how powerful Thanos himself is. It's safe to say he's easily the best villain in a franchise not normally known for quality bad guys, save for perhaps Dormammu.

Minor nitpick- since Thanos turned Groot to dust, wouldn't that also turn the handle on stormbreaker to dust as well? If so, Thor would need to revisit the forge to finish the weapon.

Loki's early death was pretty lame (like a dagger could take out the Big Bad so easily), though not as bad as Heimdall who got next to no screen time in the last 2 films. At least it's put to rest the fan theories that he was the bearer of the soul stone.

Does anyone know what the logo on Fury's pager meant when he sent an alert? I'm hoping someone more knowledgeable might have an insight...

Anyone think Hawkeye might show up in Ant-Man and the Wasp? Might explain his absence this time around.

With the creation of Martha Adam as a setup for the 3rd Guardians film, it'll be interesting to tie those together.

[Rhadamantus]

The logo on the pager was Captain Marvel. She'll be interesting to introduce, given how powerful she is.

[Civil War Man]

Minor nitpick- since Thanos turned Groot to dust, wouldn't that also turn the handle on stormbreaker to dust as well? If so, Thor would need to revisit the forge to finish the weapon.

Easy workaround - Stormbreaker's handle stopped being living wood when Groot sacrificed that piece to make it, and Thanos had the Infinity Gauntlet kill half the population, not make them never exist. So the handle was no longer a piece of Groot, hence it did not disintegrate when Groot did.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

The logo on the pager was Captain Marvel. She'll be interesting to introduce, given how powerful she is.

Especially as her solo film's going to be released a couple of months before the resolution of Infinity War.

[Shannon]

Did anyone else think that Hulk used up all his screentime in Ragnarok and so had almost nothing left for IW? I'd have thought after getting his ass kicked so quickly by Thanos he'd be more eager for a rematch, since the longer a fight goes on the angrier (and stronger) he becomes.

Does he, though? IIRC, although it's clear in the comics that the longer the fight goes, the angrier and stronger he gets, this has never actually been established to be the case in the MCU. I don't recall it ever being said in the movies. He has lost fights (against Tony in Age of Ultron) and been on the losing end of a fight until an outsider intervened (against Thor in Ragnarok). He never seemed to me to be getting stronger. He's just a big, strong, angry guy who is also quicker than you'd expect. He's tough too, but he's been hurt in every appearance and doesn't seem to have an ultra-fast healing factor.

By contrast, the Eric Bana Hulk was clearly getting more powerful as he fought because he kept getting bigger, faster and stronger.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

I'm thinking of the case of Norton's hulk in the 2008 film when he fought against Blonsky/Abomination. At the beginning it was Hulk who was the weaker of the two but as the battle wore on Hulk got stronger while Blonsky's strength was fixed.

There was also his fight with Thor in Avengers, where after Thor hit him with Mjolnir with enough force to send him flying into and wrecking a parked plane, after recovering from being stunned he gets even madder (though no indications one way or the other on his strength).