Canadian opinion of war changing

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

User avatar
Darth Wong
Sith Lord
Sith Lord
Posts: 70028
Joined: 2002-07-03 12:25am
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Canadian opinion of war changing

Post by Darth Wong »

A week ago, 70% of Canadians surveyed supported Chretien's stand against the war. However, this excerpt indicates that the situation is fluid:
The Globe and Mail wrote:Support for Chrétien's war policy sags

By SHAWN McCARTHY
From Saturday's Globe and Mail

Ottawa — Support for Prime Minister Jean Chrétien's handling of the Iraq war plunged in the past week, with opinion split virtually evenly outside Quebec, where antiwar sentiment is strongest, a new Globe and Mail/CTV poll suggests.

The poll, conducted by Ipsos-Reid, found Canadians deeply divided along regional and gender lines over the government's decision not to participate in the war in Iraq. Nearly half of the respondents said Canada should now join the military effort.

The poll found Mr. Chrétien had the support of 56 per cent of Canadians for his handling of the Iraqi crisis — a drop of 10 points in a week. Outside of Quebec, his majority was razor-thin, according to the survey conducted this week.

"Canadians are conflicted on this," Ipsos-Reid vice-president John Wright said. "They are proud that Canada has taken an independent stand but anxious and concerned about the impact of that action."

About 73 per cent of Quebeckers approved of Mr. Chrétien's handling of the Iraq war. Outside the province, he received 50 per cent approval and 47 per cent disapproval.

Over all, women were far more likely to support Mr. Chrétien's decision to stay out of the war — 66 per cent of women supported the move, versus 52 per cent of men.

U.S. Ambassador Paul Cellucci fuelled Canadian concerns over Mr. Chrétien's stand this week when he said Americans are "disappointed and upset" over Canada's decision and warned vaguely of repercussions.

Mr. Cellucci was more conciliatory yesterday as he spoke in Fort St. John, B.C., where he emphasized the importance of Canada-U.S. ties. He also lauded Canada's naval presence in the Persian Gulf, saying the Canadian military is still playing a huge role helping countries that are part of the U.S.-led coalition against Iraq.

The poll found Canadians are sensitive to his argument that Canada has turned its back on its closest friend at a time of need.

Approximately 47 per cent of respondents agreed Canada "turned our back" on the Americans, while 51 per cent disagreed. In Quebec, only 36 per cent agreed that the decision amounted to a failure to support the U.S. at its time of need, while 51 per cent of those in other provinces agreed.

While hundreds of thousands of Canadians have attended antiwar rallies across the country, pro-U.S. rallies are also starting to spring up.

Pro-coalition rallies were planned for today in Winnipeg, Ottawa and Red Deer, Alta., and in Calgary and Vancouver tomorrow. American flags are flying off the shelves in many western cities.

Still, two-thirds of poll respondents said Mr. Chrétien's stand has shown Canada is an independent player on the world stage.

The Ipsos-Reid poll surveyed 1,000 Canadians between March 25 and March 27 and has a margin of error of 3.1 percentage points, 19 times out of 20.

Mr. Chrétien has cancelled an April 9 visit to Washington, where he was due to receive an award for his support for national parks. A spokesman in his office said yesterday the Prime Minister did not feel comfortable accepting an award as Americans are fighting in Iraq.

U.S. President George W. Bush's planned state visit to Ottawa may also be cancelled, though it still remains on the schedule.

Mr. Chrétien has defended his decision to keep Canada out of the war, saying he believed United Nations weapons inspectors were working to disarm Iraqi President Saddam Hussein.

However, in recent days, he and his senior ministers have warned their caucus to restrain from criticizing the U.S. war effort and to rein in negative statements about Mr. Bush.

In the Ipsos-Reid poll, 59 per cent of respondents said they were glad Canada stayed out of the war, including 83 per cent of Quebeckers. Outside of Quebec, only 52 per cent of respondents said they were glad Canada opted out of war.

But approaching the war's two-week mark — with U.S. and British forces meeting unexpectedly stiff resistance — 45 per cent of respondents agreed with the statement that "it is now time for us to come aboard and offer our military support."

Again, the difference between Quebec and the rest of the country is stark. Only 34 per cent of Quebeckers agreed it is now time to join the coalition, while Canadians outside that province were evenly divided.
I know, I know, I can anticipate the shock and surprise that French-Canadians are much more strongly anti-war than the rest of Canada :)

PS. Roughly 4000 people marched in a pro-war rally in Ottawa today. At the same time, 400 marched in a peace demonstration at the US embassy. I'm not sure what it means that Canadian support for the war is on the increase (I can't imagine Don Cherry's pontificating on Hockey Night in Canada could have had that much effect :)), but there you have it. Take it for whatever you think it's worth.
Image
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
Enforcer Talen
Warlock
Posts: 10285
Joined: 2002-07-05 02:28am
Location: Boston
Contact:

Post by Enforcer Talen »

yay
Image
This day is Fantastic!
Myers Briggs: ENTJ
Political Compass: -3/-6
DOOMer WoW
"I really hate it when the guy you were pegging as Mr. Worst Case starts saying, "Oh, I was wrong, it's going to be much worse." " - Adrian Laguna
IRG CommandoJoe
Sith Devotee
Posts: 3481
Joined: 2002-07-09 12:51pm

Post by IRG CommandoJoe »

(shrugs)
Yay? :P
Who's the more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows him? -Obi-Wan Kenobi

"In the unlikely event that someone comes here, hates everything we stand for, and then donates a big chunk of money anyway, I will thank him for his stupidity." -Darth Wong, Lord of the Sith

Proud member of the Brotherhood of the Monkey.
IRG CommandoJoe
Sith Devotee
Posts: 3481
Joined: 2002-07-09 12:51pm

Post by IRG CommandoJoe »

LOL You posted it just before I did.
Who's the more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows him? -Obi-Wan Kenobi

"In the unlikely event that someone comes here, hates everything we stand for, and then donates a big chunk of money anyway, I will thank him for his stupidity." -Darth Wong, Lord of the Sith

Proud member of the Brotherhood of the Monkey.
User avatar
Kuja
The Dark Messenger
Posts: 19322
Joined: 2002-07-11 12:05am
Location: AZ

Post by Kuja »

Huh. People can be so shifty at times...
Image
JADAFETWA
User avatar
Stormbringer
King of Democracy
Posts: 22678
Joined: 2002-07-15 11:22pm

Post by Stormbringer »

I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that the horrible, drawn out, atrocity soaked war hasn't come to pass. Also it seems to have show what a scumbag Saddam Hussien really is.
I think a lot of the fence sitters made up their mind, around the world and here in the States. As long as the US keeps it's promises and keeps the casualties, our military and their civilians, low then most people will stay on the US's side. As long as the momentum remains with the Coaltion and no WMDs are used I think the majority will come down on that side of the war.
Image
Companion Cube
Biozeminade!
Posts: 3874
Joined: 2003-02-02 04:29pm
Location: what did you doooooo щ(゚Д゚щ)

Post by Companion Cube »

IRG CommandoJoe wrote:(shrugs)
Yay? :P
Yay as well.
And when I'm sad, you're a clown
And if I get scared, you're always a clown
User avatar
theski
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4327
Joined: 2003-01-28 03:20pm
Location: Hurricane Watching

Post by theski »

Yea, Long live the great white north..
Sudden power is apt to be insolent, sudden liberty saucy; that behaves best which has grown gradually.
User avatar
Enricko
Padawan Learner
Posts: 197
Joined: 2003-01-21 09:29am
Location: Québec, Canada

Post by Enricko »

Am I pro or anti-war if I said that :
  • Yes, Saddam Hussien is an horrible dictator that couldn't be overthrown by any other means than war;

    But the War of Irak will not end with the death of the present Iraki regime and that we'll see the Middle East goes into flame;
Can you really say we French-Canadian are morons if we think the solution is worst than the problem?
"We don't suspend disbelief, we hang it until it's dead!"
Major Cam Corder, Sevgates Cartoon Strip

MEMBER of the Anti-PETA Anti-Facist LEAGUE
User avatar
Darth Wong
Sith Lord
Sith Lord
Posts: 70028
Joined: 2002-07-03 12:25am
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Post by Darth Wong »

Enricko wrote:Can you really say we French-Canadian are morons if we think the solution is worst than the problem?
In World War I, Quebec vehemently opposed entry into the war. In World War II, Quebec vehemently opposed entry into the war. So today, when Quebec vehemently opposes entry into yet another war, a lot of people nod knowingly and attribute it to cowardice, not any particular rational reasoning.
Image
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
Nathan F
Resident Redneck
Posts: 4979
Joined: 2002-09-10 08:01am
Location: Around the corner
Contact:

Re: Canadian opinion of war changing

Post by Nathan F »

Darth Wong wrote:PS. Roughly 4000 people marched in a pro-war rally in Ottawa today. At the same time, 400 marched in a peace demonstration at the US embassy. I'm not sure what it means that Canadian support for the war is on the increase (I can't imagine Don Cherry's pontificating on Hockey Night in Canada could have had that much effect :)), but there you have it. Take it for whatever you think it's worth.
That has shown to hold true at the majority of peace rally's across the country. There will be, oh, 500-1000 people at a peace rally and the news will be all over it, yet, two blocks over, there will be a pro-war/support the troops rally with 1000-5000 people in attendance, yet nothing is said.

And what is this about a pro-war stance in the media?
IRG CommandoJoe
Sith Devotee
Posts: 3481
Joined: 2002-07-09 12:51pm

Post by IRG CommandoJoe »

Just about everything else the media covers (U.S. media I assume you are talking about) is pro-war.
Who's the more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows him? -Obi-Wan Kenobi

"In the unlikely event that someone comes here, hates everything we stand for, and then donates a big chunk of money anyway, I will thank him for his stupidity." -Darth Wong, Lord of the Sith

Proud member of the Brotherhood of the Monkey.
User avatar
Stormbringer
King of Democracy
Posts: 22678
Joined: 2002-07-15 11:22pm

Re: Canadian opinion of war changing

Post by Stormbringer »

Nathan F wrote:And what is this about a pro-war stance in the media?
It doesn't grab the attention or stir controversy like a anti-war stance does.
Image
User avatar
Sea Skimmer
Yankee Capitalist Air Pirate
Posts: 37390
Joined: 2002-07-03 11:49pm
Location: Passchendaele City, HAB

Post by Sea Skimmer »

Hopefully Canada wont get any foolish ideas like attempting to contribute combat troops. :)
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
User avatar
Montcalm
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7879
Joined: 2003-01-15 10:50am
Location: Montreal Canada North America

Post by Montcalm »

Sea Skimmer wrote:Hopefully Canada wont get any foolish ideas like attempting to contribute combat troops. :)
Officialy no unofficialy there are troops over there.
Image
Jerry Orbach 1935 2004
Admiral Valdemar~You know you've fucked up when Wacky Races has more realistic looking vehicles than your own.
User avatar
David
Moderator Emeritus
Posts: 3752
Joined: 2002-07-04 03:54am
Contact:

Post by David »

Many modern day leaders get appluaded for opposing what America wants done, no matter how important that cause is.
Howedar
Emperor's Thumb
Posts: 12472
Joined: 2002-07-03 05:06pm
Location: St. Paul, MN

Post by Howedar »

Interesting.
Howedar is no longer here. Need to talk to him? Talk to Pick.
User avatar
Enricko
Padawan Learner
Posts: 197
Joined: 2003-01-21 09:29am
Location: Québec, Canada

Post by Enricko »

Darth Wong wrote:
Enricko wrote:Can you really say we French-Canadian are morons if we think the solution is worst than the problem?
In World War I, Quebec vehemently opposed entry into the war. In World War II, Quebec vehemently opposed entry into the war. So today, when Quebec vehemently opposes entry into yet another war, a lot of people nod knowingly and attribute it to cowardice, not any particular rational reasoning.
Don't forget Corea!

Okay, so Québec is full of cowards that won't lift a finger if a country wants to invade another, I can live with that! So forget Québec and let's pretend we're independents! Remove we cowards from the equation.

Now 50 % of Canadians don't want to see their country go to war with Irak, don't you think the politicians should listen to them? Do those Canadians who want to support U.S. have another argument than: "It will hurt our trades with the Americains if we disagree with them"?
"We don't suspend disbelief, we hang it until it's dead!"
Major Cam Corder, Sevgates Cartoon Strip

MEMBER of the Anti-PETA Anti-Facist LEAGUE
User avatar
Darth Wong
Sith Lord
Sith Lord
Posts: 70028
Joined: 2002-07-03 12:25am
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Post by Darth Wong »

Enricko wrote:Okay, so Québec is full of cowards that won't lift a finger if a country wants to invade another, I can live with that! So forget Québec and let's pretend we're independents! Remove we cowards from the equation.
There are many both inside and outside Quebec who would really like to do that :)
Now 50 % of Canadians don't want to see their country go to war with Irak, don't you think the politicians should listen to them? Do those Canadians who want to support U.S. have another argument than: "It will hurt our trades with the Americains if we disagree with them"?
Most of the fence-sitters who changed their minds appear to subscribe to Don Cherry's reasoning that as the war goes on and the Americans begin to take casualties, we should be there for our neighbours. I don't think the possibility of trade sanctions is that serious; they have never given us any particular allowances in that regard anyway, and decades of contributing in international peacekeeping, NORAD, the war on terror, etc. have not given us preferential treatment compared to Mexico, which contributes jack shit.
Image
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
User avatar
Lonestar
Keeper of the Schwartz
Posts: 13321
Joined: 2003-02-13 03:21pm
Location: The Bay Area

Post by Lonestar »

Darth Wong wrote: Most of the fence-sitters who changed their minds appear to subscribe to Don Cherry's reasoning that as the war goes on and the Americans begin to take casualties, we should be there for our neighbours. I don't think the possibility of trade sanctions is that serious; they have never given us any particular allowances in that regard anyway, and decades of contributing in international peacekeeping, NORAD, the war on terror, etc. have not given us preferential treatment compared to Mexico, which contributes jack shit.
Hate to tell you this, but to a lot of Americans, especially Texans, Californians, etc. feel that Mexico and Mexican culture affect the United States more than Canada does.

Any Texan will talk about how NAFTA affects trade with Mexico and the US, but most will give you blank looks win you bring Canada into the equation.
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."
User avatar
Darth Wong
Sith Lord
Sith Lord
Posts: 70028
Joined: 2002-07-03 12:25am
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Post by Darth Wong »

Lonestar wrote:Any Texan will talk about how NAFTA affects trade with Mexico and the US, but most will give you blank looks win you bring Canada into the equation.
And Texans wonder why they have developed a reputation for being ignorant.
Image
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
User avatar
Glocksman
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7233
Joined: 2002-09-03 06:43pm
Location: Mr. Five by Five

Post by Glocksman »

Well, we don't have 7-8 million Canadians illegally working in the US.
That might be why Texans and others are more aware of Mexico than the Canada.
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."- General Sir Charles Napier

Oderint dum metuant
User avatar
Enricko
Padawan Learner
Posts: 197
Joined: 2003-01-21 09:29am
Location: Québec, Canada

Post by Enricko »

Let me get this straight, the U.S government declares a war on Irak, send troops to remove Saddam's regime, they got soldiers killed, so now we've got to back them? Should we not be sad for the dead soldiers and civillians while holding a big banner that says:

"We told you!" ???

I though you were the type of guy who didn't feared to call a moron a dumbshit if he got him and others hurt by his own actions?

Sure, NOW that the war is started, the US should finish it even if it take a year, the corpses of two thousand service men and women and a bill of 200 billions dollars. As sad and supportive of the greiving families as I might be, is it not Bush & co.'s fault?
"We don't suspend disbelief, we hang it until it's dead!"
Major Cam Corder, Sevgates Cartoon Strip

MEMBER of the Anti-PETA Anti-Facist LEAGUE
User avatar
RogueIce
_______
Posts: 13387
Joined: 2003-01-05 01:36am
Location: Tampa Bay, Florida, USA
Contact:

Post by RogueIce »

Enricko wrote:Let me get this straight, the U.S government declares a war on Irak, send troops to remove Saddam's regime, they got soldiers killed, so now we've got to back them? Should we not be sad for the dead soldiers and civillians while holding a big banner that says:

"We told you!" ???
Ah yes, like that would not inspire flaming. And not just on this board, but all over.

Look at the reaction to those morons who have the "Troops Shoot Their Officers NOW!" posters... :roll:
Image
"How can I wait unknowing?
This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)

"On and on, through the years,
The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear." - Ambrose Redmoon
"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight
User avatar
Darth Wong
Sith Lord
Sith Lord
Posts: 70028
Joined: 2002-07-03 12:25am
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Post by Darth Wong »

Enricko wrote:Let me get this straight, the U.S government declares a war on Irak, send troops to remove Saddam's regime, they got soldiers killed, so now we've got to back them? Should we not be sad for the dead soldiers and civillians while holding a big banner that says:

"We told you!" ???

I though you were the type of guy who didn't feared to call a moron a dumbshit if he got him and others hurt by his own actions?
I don't. But there are strong arguments both for and against this war IMHO.
Sure, NOW that the war is started, the US should finish it even if it take a year, the corpses of two thousand service men and women and a bill of 200 billions dollars. As sad and supportive of the greiving families as I might be, is it not Bush & co.'s fault?
I have very serious issues with the way they rushed headlong into this war, and I think some of the justifications for the war were quite frankly bullshit. But it's not all bullshit, and when a neighbour is feeling embattled, there is a natural instinct to want to lend a helping hand, even if it's only symbolic.
Image
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
Post Reply