Westworld Season 2 thread (SPOILERS!!!)

[Guardsman Bass]

You've all been warned. Spoilers ahoy!




We're back in Westworld, apparently just one of at least six parks (which must at least partially be on the same island, since the tiger managed to wander over from Park 6). It sounds like the island is in southeast asia somewhere, although I don't know where.

They're playing around with the timelines again. Bernard is the obvious one (along with the tease of whether he's just going along or whether he's planning something), but I think there's some time-line stuff going on with Old William, Dolores, and Maeve as well.

Overall it was kind of a slow burn of an episode. There were a few moments of action, but overall it felt like a build-up.

[FaxModem1]

Honestly, I'm trying to figure out who I care about, since William turned out to be a violent rapist and Felix turned out to be okay with mass slaughter of innocent humans just doing their jobs. Both of which aren't here. Dolores is insanely executing everyone, with Teddy following her commands. Bernard seems to have killed everyone eventually. So what I'm left with is Maeve, and her violent ruthlessness, and the hack Lee Sizemore, who still comes off as an asshole when facing a robot uprising.

I guess I like Stubbs. The Security Officer who took precautions, and is still alive.

[The Grim Squeaker]

Who was the face floating in the water supposed to be? Given the emphasis, I assume someone important, but I couldn't make it out.

[FaxModem1]

Who was the face floating in the water supposed to be? Given the emphasis, I assume someone important, but I couldn't make it out.

I think that was Teddy

[Guardsman Bass]

I think it was Teddy too. I'm leaning towards either "Bernard is somehow carrying the backed-up data of the hosts on him, and will leave with it at the end of the season" or "Bernard helped the rebellious hosts do what Maeve did and switch into new bomb-free bodies, with the old ones dumped into the sea as a decoy". Evan Rachel Wood's contract for the show runs into season three, so Dolores is going to survive in some fashion or another.

Although it would be more interesting if he really did somehow betray the rebelling hosts and get almost all of them killed.

[FaxModem1]

So, Delos either has the most incompetent security forces in the world, or they can't afford aerial superiority for some reason.

Meanwhile, if I had enough money to blow 40k a day, I'd much prefer The Raj, where I can enjoy nice beds, delicious food, and potentially an Agatha Christie murder mystery inside a palace or mansion instead of dealing with cannibals, robbers, and a war.

[bilateralrope]

So, Delos either has the most incompetent security forces in the world, or they can't afford aerial superiority for some reason.

I'm thinking that whatever government let them build the park decided to not let them have any aircraft because it wanted to retain aerial superiority.

[Ziggy Stardust]

Indeed, in the first episode (during the scene where Bernard is on the beach), we see an aircraft carrier in the background while the Delos boss person (whose name I don't recall) tells a Chinese (?) soldier that Delos is in control of the operation and not them. It seems like Delos told the air superiority to fuck off as a power move, or to keep things under wrap.

That said, it still doesn't make any sense why a company with the resources of Delos couldn't at least have drones or helicopters of some sort, and it doesn't explain why they are all so incompetent, but the show does at least acknowledge the air issue to some extent.

[bilateralrope]

They are also holding back their response because they haven't received the host they want.

[Agent Fisher]

Remember, this is two different time narratives. The first battle at Forlorn Hope was just the on site security staff who probably never trained for a full host rebellion like this. Poor excuse for those 'tactics' but I can see it being something like that. The mercs are a few weeks later, when the security teams were all used up.

[LadyTevar]

From what I've seen, I think there's at least THREE timelines going on here. Still trying to tease out which one's which.

[Agent Fisher]

Oh lord, the latest episode... Starts off sooo great. haha, I was loving that.

[Agent Fisher]

Welp, that episode was a hot mess of shit and stupidity.

[FaxModem1]

Welp, that episode was a hot mess of shit and stupidity.

You do have to wonder about Delos hiring practices considering how the mercenary teams have been performing.

[Agent Fisher]

That fucking shotgun wielding merc, fucking idiot. Seriously, the writing last night just was terrible. The decisions were crap, the story seemed everywhere.

[Pelranius]

Wonder if Old William is a host, given how shot up he was by Maeve and co.?

[madd0ct0r]

So I heard there was a major plot reveal regarding the purpose of the parks.

I'm never going to buy and watch this until my next 18hr flight, so please spoiler me

[FaxModem1]

To Maddoctor:
Spoiler

They're collecting data on all of their park residents for immortality and cloning possibilities, as well as data collection on all guests for marketing purposes. Potentially, also aping the plot of Futureworld and replacing guests with hosts for reasons.

[Iroscato]

Season 2’s been dragging for me for the most part, but I gotta say: the latest episode (s02e08) was for me a masterclass in storytelling, cinematography and acting. I’ll not delve into spoiler territory, but the actor portraying the main character was sublime.

[Pelranius]

Hope he gets an Emmy.

[FaxModem1]

So, Westworld season 2 ended, and I'm just confused. So, what really happened at the end there?

[Darth Lucifer]

So many random thoughts after a rewatch...I'm still trying to figure out when the actual switch between Hale and Dolores took place.

This entire season has been centered around Bernard doing sneaky shit, first at Ford's behest, then his Bicameral Mind (manifesting as Ford)...but the creation of Hale's duplicate to save Dolores I think may have been an independent choice after his moment of awakening, much like when Dolores saw herself when she learned who her Bicameral Mind really was.

I also caught in Season One when we see Stubbs going into the park with Elsie for the first time, he mentions his "core drive", seemingly as a joke. But then we got that bombshell right before Hale/(Dolores) left the island. Fucking WOW.

I'm kind of fuzzy on Ford...we learned that the version of him that manifested AFTER Bernard exited The Cradle was really his Bicameral Mind. Possibly even when we first saw Ford at the piano inside the Cradle. I think he may be dead for good because one of the recurring themes of other science fiction (nBSG comes to mind) and religion (I think) is that children can only truly advance beyond the parents after they die, which I think is a fitting end for Ford. Even if he really was in The Cradle for a brief while, storywise it feels right that he's gone now and that Dolores and Bernard have to get on without him.

Many people think that the person in the final scene in the tent on the beach was the last appearance of the human known as "William." But I'm beginning to think that The Man in Black has been a human/host hybrid (or just Hybrid, like James Delos) from his first appearance in the scene where he drags Dolores to the barn. I think the MIB is a resurrection of the Old Man William we saw in the round room testing the Delos Hybrid for "Fidelity" earlier in Season 2. And while i'm on that episode, I love the fact that this is where the MIB ends up, even after he sliced his own arm open.

The Man in Black took a ridiculous amount of damage which would have killed any human his age without plot device armor. Also, the entire time they've said "The Maze is not for you" to the MIB. Whether he was a human or a Hybrid from Episode One, Ford did not intend for him to be in the hosts' sanctuary; he decribed The Valley as "untouched by human..." something, sin or corruption, whatever.

Another huge clue to The Man in Black being a Hybrid was a screencap of SUBJECT NUMBER 002, which was revealed when his wife saw the profile:

https://i.imgur.com/FpOWDMT.jpg (large image, not embedded)

I think it's possible that William's daughter is a Host and I think she may have been one since her first appearance in "The Raj." But I do not think she's a Hybrid. Yet. I'm not sure a Host version of her could do a Turing Test/Fidelity interview the way Dolores did to Bernard because of reasons explained in backstory. Also, she doesn't strike me as the type that wants to be resurrected. It would be incredibly fucked up if she was SUBJECT NUMBER 003 created by the Delos Corporation against her will and she doesn't know she's a Hybrid.

One thing I also caught, at some point early on they mention that about 1/3 of the Hosts in the lake were completely blank, like they were virgin-factory new or something. Later on, I think about the SAME number of Hosts actually went through The Door into The Valley Beyond; the others lying dead we may see return in Season 3 since their modules are intact.

And speaking of where The Valley Beyond may be located...I'm pretty sure it's in either a Delos satellite or a hidden server, possibly located in Arnold's house. IF it's a satellite, it's not the Delos satellite which they were originally pointed to. Remember the first time Bernard knocked out Elsie because she found out somebody was uploading data offsite?

So much plot and layers to peel away...If there's anything that's certain it's that death and resurrection in WESTWORLD can create alot of uncertainties.

[FaxModem1]

If Stubbs is a host, does that mean that yet another moral human character in Westworld is, surprise, a host? They really like making all the humans either dead or evil as sin, don't they?

[K. A. Pital]

It is a show about humans. Machines are once again, much like in Blade Runner, only a metaphor for humans.

I liked the memory-stealing sublot with Akicheta, it was a great moment of filmmaking.

WESTWORLD is so great because it's the world of the West. Basically, it is the West.

[Darth Lucifer]

If Stubbs is a host, does that mean that yet another moral human character in Westworld is, surprise, a host? They really like making all the humans either dead or evil as sin, don't they?

I think the only humans left that don't fall into those two categories are Sylvester and Felix. The former is a coward and a hustler...now if he knew the Hosts were alive, then he's into trafficking territory, but he thought he was pimping what were essentially inanimate love dolls. And regarding the latter, I think his worst "sin" was to steal tech and IP from Delos for his little side project with the bird. But these guys don't even compare to Management.

I liked the memory-stealing sublot with Akicheta, it was a great moment of filmmaking.

"Kiksuya" was just heartbreaking, so much so I cried. Akecheta's entire arc was just awesome and knowing the twists & secrets really changes your perspective when you rewatch previous episodes. And that he and his tribe were some of the first hosts to achieve consciousness makes sense given that the Ghost Nation are supposed to be the experts on "The Ones Below."

On a random last note, my mother was the one who first got me turned onto WESTWORLD. And like me, she like to watch the same show repeatedly. And that is totally fucking awesome because Mom rules. So I found for her some Thai subtitles of "Akane No Mai" and "Kiksuya" because she has a hard time reading the English subtitles (too fast).