Canada's Helicontainer-Ships (RAR!)

[Zor]

In this scenario today the Prime Minister of Canada makes a grand announcement. At a press conference to the world he announces that Canadian scientists and engineers have made a major breakthrough and have basically devised basically this technology...

...with the fans basically being large cooling systems for repulsors. But as Canada is not a hyper militaristic country instead of building aircraft carriers to serve as huge money pits instead they built five vehicles that are the flying version of this...

...container ships. Each craft is 300 meters long, has a maximum altitude of 8,000 meters above sea level, has a top speed of 150km/h and can carry about 120,000 tonnes of containerized cargo with a range of 100,000 km before needing refueling it's reactor. These vehicles will be operated by Skyfreight Canada: a Crown Corporation. The US and China have signed a trade agreement allowing Skyfreight Canada to operate in their nations in exchange for selling them lift modules for their own commercial ventures at $500,000,000 a unit (with each freighter needing at least three with four being preferable for redunancy's sake). Both nations both five years away from developing their own repulsor founderies that can match Canada and the rest of the world is at least ten years away from this development. In the meantime Canada can build two new Helicontainer Ships every year and there are plans to double that in two year's time even with half of the repulsor units being sold to the states and china.

What happens?

Zor

[Tribble]

Trump demands the tech as part of Nafta, then uses it to build carriers

[U.P. Cinnabar]

Tribble beat me to it. Also Russia, China, France, the UK, and perhaps Germany, in partnership with one or several of the other European powers, will develop militarized helicarriers.

(possibly one or all three of the South American ABC powers as well)

And, the RCN and RCAF will probably operate a helicarrier for national defense, to satisfy its obligations as part of NORAD, and its commitment to various UN peacekeeping missions.

[Zixinus]

What the hell powers those things?

[Crazedwraith]

what are the advantages of these things over regular container ships? As Zixinus says what powers them and how does it compare to the cost for regular container ships.

What is the Canadian government actually going to transport with five of these things? Compared to how many regular ships they've got to compete with?

They're a curio nothing more.

[Dass.Kapital]

What the hell powers those things?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_ ... Propulsion

Nuke jet-turbines

Coupled with

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_XV-5_Vertifan

Jet blown lift fans.

[Eternal_Freedom]

what are the advantages of these things over regular container ships? As Zixinus says what powers them and how does it compare to the cost for regular container ships.

What is the Canadian government actually going to transport with five of these things? Compared to how many regular ships they've got to compete with?

They're a curio nothing more.

They can do 150 km/h, which is, what, 8-10 times faster than a normal container ship but still carrying 120,000 tonnes of cargo. That gives you a pretty good market for things that need to be moved quickly but are too big/heavy for regular air freight.

[U.P. Cinnabar]

They can fly above storms that would hamper containerized shipping. They can also use air travel routes and not be constrained by ice floes, land masses, the Panama Canal and the like.

Knowing Zor, they are either powered by whatever powers the MCU helicarriers, or he's assumed a post-scarcity economy which would make them economically competitive with container ships.

[Zor]

What the hell powers those things?

Thorium Nuclear reactors. In a pinch diesel engines and similar can power them as well.

what are the advantages of these things over regular container ships?

Container ships travel at 37km/h, these vehicles travel at 150km/h. They can reach places that container ships can't, don't have to worry about storms.

Zor

[KraytKing]

Depending on the energy requirements, they may be prohibitively expensive to operate non-commercially. Operating a regular aircraft carrier is expensive enough. I would think that only the richest nations could afford to fly one, and only then as a flagship, certainly not more than a couple.

They sure will be powerful. Massive increase in deployment speed and flexibility for a military force. Hell, I can imagine someone setting up a cruise service with these things, for a ticket in the low millions. As container ships, they'll be pretty helpful in a) shipping to remote locations and b) moving ridiculous quantities fucking anywhere.

Edit: Just saw the bit about range. 100,000 kilometers before needing more nuclear fuel? And how much nuclear fuel do they consume per... tank?

[madd0ct0r]

what are the advantages of these things over regular container ships? As Zixinus says what powers them and how does it compare to the cost for regular container ships.

What is the Canadian government actually going to transport with five of these things? Compared to how many regular ships they've got to compete with?

They're a curio nothing more.

To put it in perspective i was once involved in a project to survey and cost 700 bridges and hundreds of miles of track to allow double deck freight container trains access Birmingham uk from the deepwater port that can handle it (felixstowe) purely to avoid london track. Being able to ship direct between two non-port cities is huge.
The extra speed means their capacity is almost tripled. They will carry that much more per year.


You'd see different patterns of factory construction - focusing on these air depots, perhaps using lakes and available resources like skilled population, thermal energy, close to input material like wood. Land by ports is already built up so these may be cheaper. Or you may see docks built at existing concentrations of industry.

Russia celebrates having an all year trade dock system. China aggressively opens its west up.

Dehli builds two dock complexes capable of holding a dozen carriers during loading/unloading.


Do the UN use one for emergency/disaster resource deployment? Depends if the carriers are truly flexible in landing.

[Crazedwraith]

So... Dehli builds enough capacity for 24 cargo ships (not carriers. They're not carriers) when there is five in existence?

Say capacity is tripled. That's the equivalent of 15 container ships.

I just googled and there are about 50,000 container ships in the world. These flying ones needed to be a hell of a lot more effective to be worth it.

As E_F says, these seem to fill a niche of transporting really big heavy objects quickly for a lot of money.

[U.P. Cinnabar]

What the hell powers those things?

Thorium Nuclear reactors. In a pinch diesel engines and similar can power them as well.

what are the advantages of these things over regular container ships?

Container ships travel at 37km/h, these vehicles travel at 150km/h. They can reach places that container ships can't, don't have to worry about storms.

Zor

You mean diesel and gas turbines, don't you?

[U.P. Cinnabar]

what are the advantages of these things over regular container ships? As Zixinus says what powers them and how does it compare to the cost for regular container ships.

What is the Canadian government actually going to transport with five of these things? Compared to how many regular ships they've got to compete with?

They're a curio nothing more.

To put it in perspective i was once involved in a project to survey and cost 700 bridges and hundreds of miles of track to allow double deck freight container trains access Birmingham uk from the deepwater port that can handle it (felixstowe) purely to avoid london track. Being able to ship direct between two non-port cities is huge.
The extra speed means their capacity is almost tripled. They will carry that much more per year.


You'd see different patterns of factory construction - focusing on these air depots, perhaps using lakes and available resources like skilled population, thermal energy, close to input material like wood. Land by ports is already built up so these may be cheaper. Or you may see docks built at existing concentrations of industry.

Russia celebrates having an all year trade dock system. China aggressively opens its west up.

Dehli builds two dock complexes capable of holding a dozen carriers during loading/unloading.


Do the UN use one for emergency/disaster resource deployment? Depends if the carriers are truly flexible in landing.

Who says they have to land to satisfy UN humanitarian/peacekeeping missions? 100,000 kilometers of range translates to an extended ability to hover over the target area.

More than likely the UN borrows one from one of the member states interested in sustaining the UN mission, like Canada.

Zor, what is the maximum altitude for a helicarrier?

[Batman]

He gives their maximum altitude as 8,000 metres above sea level in the OP you know

[KraytKing]

So... Dehli builds enough capacity for 24 cargo ships (not carriers. They're not carriers) when there is five in existence?

Say capacity is tripled. That's the equivalent of 15 container ships.

I just googled and there are about 50,000 container ships in the world. These flying ones needed to be a hell of a lot more effective to be worth it.

As E_F says, these seem to fill a niche of transporting really big heavy objects quickly for a lot of money.

There are only five, but Canada will double that number in two and a half years, and double it again in five. That's twenty, with only Canada actually building any. Canada. Not exactly the best-suited for massive industrial projects. Once they figure out the tech, India will have no trouble building a few dozen to keep the Delhi port occupied.

Once the entire world is in on it, there will be no problems building dozens or hundreds per year, given their apparent cheapness of operation. You're waaay underestimating capacity.

[U.P. Cinnabar]

He gives their maximum altitude as 8,000 metres above sea level in the OP you know

I saw that after I woke up and wiped the slobber off my tablet. Thanks.

[U.P. Cinnabar]

So... Dehli builds enough capacity for 24 cargo ships (not carriers. They're not carriers) when there is five in existence?

Say capacity is tripled. That's the equivalent of 15 container ships.

I just googled and there are about 50,000 container ships in the world. These flying ones needed to be a hell of a lot more effective to be worth it.

As E_F says, these seem to fill a niche of transporting really big heavy objects quickly for a lot of money.

There are only five, but Canada will double that number in two and a half years, and double it again in five. That's twenty, with only Canada actually building any. Canada. Not exactly the best-suited for massive industrial projects. Once they figure out the tech, India will have no trouble building a few dozen to keep the Delhi port occupied.

Once the entire world is in on it, there will be no problems building dozens or hundreds per year, given their apparent cheapness of operation. You're waaay underestimating capacity.

And, of course, if the Indians have at least one military helicarrier(which they will), the Paks will find a way to get one too.

Why not a heliport complex at Kolkata and Mumbai as well? Especially since Mumbai is India's New York?

[madd0ct0r]

So... Dehli builds enough capacity for 24 cargo ships (not carriers. They're not carriers) when there is five in existence?

Say capacity is tripled. That's the equivalent of 15 container ships.

I just googled and there are about 50,000 container ships in the world. These flying ones needed to be a hell of a lot more effective to be worth it.

As E_F says, these seem to fill a niche of transporting really big heavy objects quickly for a lot of money.

There are only five, but Canada will double that number in two and a half years, and double it again in five. That's twenty, with only Canada actually building any. Canada. Not exactly the best-suited for massive industrial projects. Once they figure out the tech, India will have no trouble building a few dozen to keep the Delhi port occupied.

Once the entire world is in on it, there will be no problems building dozens or hundreds per year, given their apparent cheapness of operation. You're waaay underestimating capacity.

And, of course, if the Indians have at least one military helicarrier(which they will), the Paks will find a way to get one too.

Why not a heliport complex at Kolkata and Mumbai as well? Especially since Mumbai is India's New York?

Mumbai and New York are similar because they are huge ports. They'd both get busy building berths to allow them to ship to landlocked cities, but you could land the helicargocarrier on the sea and toe it into the existing ship docks with a little adaption I think. I chose Dehli as archetypal huge, rapidly developing city that happens to be landlocked. It's easier to imagine Dehli doing it then Paris, say

Docks would probably be built to overcapacity across many places in the developing world. Many cities in Vietnam built deep water docks, with officials hoping to skim money off the trade passing through. Too many docks meant none of them were actually profitable. It'd be the same lesson again for the non-port cities.
---



So, what secondary effects?
The big shipping constraints end, with important geopolitical implications. Sure you can shoot the carriers down, and threatening to do so allows an equivalent of a naval blockade, but you can always just go around the hotspot. I wonder if some poorer countries can make money from providing protected airspace lanes?

Panama suffers. Suez suffers. Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Egypt loose a bit of USA support, but not too much as surface fleets will remain important. The helicarriers are basically skeet in military terms. The most dangerous aspect of their militirazation is that India and China no longer have a nice fat buffer called the Himalayas to prevent war. That's going to be a major flashpoint and arms race.

Singapore gradually declines in importance as a trade hub. They attempt to retool as a transit place, where many ships from different areas meet a helicarrier to feed in cargo from multiple sources. BUT there is conflict between passenger flight routes and helicarrier routes, and the big city to big city direct routes, ignoring the straits, nibble away at Singapore's importance.

Skirmishes in the South China Sea over oil rights can occur without shutting down global trade directly. They are therefore slightly more likely to happen imo.

[U.P. Cinnabar]

If you can the helicarriers on the sea, like RCN verse starships, then you extend the harbor complex further out from the ports.

Which would welcome news for port cities such as Singapore, Port Said, Hong Kong, Shanghai, New Orleans, Corpus Christi, and Savannah.

It would also likely expand Hartsfield-Jackson in Atlanta to accomdate helifrieghter traffic, and that may even mean good news to Lakehurt, NJ as well, especially if people start building heliliners, or the helifrieghter start taking on passengers, with the latter being more likely.

[Simon_Jester]

Thorium Nuclear reactors. In a pinch diesel engines and similar can power them as well.

Just how much reactor capacity do they need?

So... Dehli builds enough capacity for 24 cargo ships (not carriers. They're not carriers) when there is five in existence?

Carrier as in bulk carrier, not as in aircraft carrier. And I suspect India will be planning ahead for a vast upscaling of this technology, because they're very much hoping that more will be built. It sounds like this isn't one of those RARs where the new ultratech is "a wizard made this, and then he died," but rather one where the new technology will be expanded on considerably.

As E_F says, these seem to fill a niche of transporting really big heavy objects quickly for a lot of money.

The biggest other advantage they have is of bringing major container port shipping prices to inland cities. That is huge.

[Zor]

Thorium Nuclear reactors. In a pinch diesel engines and similar can power them as well.

Just how much reactor capacity do they need?

100 megawatts.

Zor

[Sea Skimmer]

The manning costs alone would probably eat this idea alive for 90% of possible commercial use. You're not going to crew something like this with thirty low paid guys from the third world because if (or more likely, when) one crashes at 150kph weighing ~150,000 tons the damage will be rather massive, and could destroy all kinds of stuff not normally at risk of total obliteration. Like entire towns.

That plus nuclear power, it really doesn't matter if its thorium or boiling plutonium politically, plus FLYING adds up to some really demanding requirements. Also the rated endurance is not amazing, if the ship were underway at all times it means it needs a nuclear refueling every month. That has to have a serious cost and downtime.

Where it would thrive is allowing us to strip mine the amazon faster. Altering the design into a bulk hauler will be no trouble at all, and now our stripmines can save the cost of what would otherwise be entirely dedicated heavy duty transport infastructure.

Container wise it would have some use for sure on the highest density routes, but you're talking about several times the price of a normal ship, which is a huge burden to pay down, and pretty certainly much higher operating costs. The amount of cargo on hand to make up for that with quicker delivery at a higher price is finite. The more people want to pay for quick delivery, the more they want the quick delivery! Waiting for ~8000 TEU of high priority cargo to build up at one place might be a real problem. Total loading and unloading time is also a factor to consider. This is a big limitation in using this sort of ship for inland aerial port operations.

As for what happens, the US Trumpistani Regime might invade Canada before it allows half the units to be sold to the Chinese. Hell a lot of other presidents might do that too. The military use is pretty overwhelming.

[madd0ct0r]

Is the military use overwhelming?

Once you've strapped on enough armour to your giant floating skeet, I'm not finding an awful lot of weight left for ammo for your flying fortress.

[Sky Captain]

Thorium Nuclear reactors. In a pinch diesel engines and similar can power them as well.

Just how much reactor capacity do they need?

100 megawatts.

Zor

100 MW are easily doable with diesel engines. In fact similar size container ships aready have around 100 MW engine so no need for nuclear reactor on a civilian version. It goes 150 km/h on 100 MW while normal container ship may reach 50 km/h or less with similar power. Flying freighter is at least 3 times energy efficient over water based freighter. Ships already are the most energy efficient vehicles, this is 3 times better. It can do at least 3 trips in a time a ship does one, can fly over land and take a shortcut across Arctic Ocean. That translates into a lot of money which should compensate for higher operating costs and security risks associated with flying 150 000 tons of metal.