"Star Wars Resistance" is Disney's Newest Animated TV show

[The Romulan Republic]

How about some scrimshaw, to indulge Thrawn's artistic tastes?

[U.P. Cinnabar]

Not a bad idea.

If we can't have Thrawn, can we at least get Pellaeon for Resistance? Because he's one of my favorite Legends characters, and he got such a shitty death in the Legacy Of the Force novels.

[Rogue 9]

The only mention Pellaeon got in the new canon to my knowledge (I haven't read the new Thrawn novels) is his report on the comms to Thrawn that the fleet was being destroyed. Presumably the Purgill busted in the windows of his Star Destroyer in orbit and exposed him to hard vacuum.

[Patroklos]

Holy shit. This is like, a real thing? At first I thought you were just fucking around or working some inside joke for something less stupid. But they literally have biological, hyperspacing, SD destroying space monsters as a primary plot point in a series arc? Killing off one of the most well written and beloved SW villains in a fucking cartoon?

[tezunegari]

Holy shit. This is like, a real thing? At first I thought you were just fucking around or working some inside joke for something less stupid. But they literally have biological, hyperspacing, SD destroying space monsters as a primary plot point in a series arc? Killing off one of the most well written and beloved SW villains in a fucking cartoon?

Yes.

At least they weren't too much of an asspull - their existense and Ezras ability to communicate with them were established earlier in the show.
The space-whales were introduced in Season 2 Episode 15 "The Call" and apparently in the new canon these space-whales are the base or at least the inspiration for hyperdrive technology.

[The Romulan Republic]

Holy shit. This is like, a real thing? At first I thought you were just fucking around or working some inside joke for something less stupid. But they literally have biological, hyperspacing, SD destroying space monsters as a primary plot point in a series arc? Killing off one of the most well written and beloved SW villains in a fucking cartoon?

Yes.

At least they weren't too much of an asspull - their existense and Ezras ability to communicate with them were established earlier in the show.
The space-whales were introduced in Season 2 Episode 15 "The Call" and apparently in the new canon these space-whales are the base or at least the inspiration for hyperdrive technology.

Does anyone actually think either Thrawn or Pellaeon are dead? Thrawn especially. He's a popular character, "killed" in a cartoon that's about to get a sequel by people with a history of resurrecting popular characters despite implausibility (Ashoka, Maul), and we never even saw a body.

Thrawn's alive. I'd put better than even money on Pelly coming back some day too.

You can worry about the risk of that cheapening character death in the franchise- the "comic book death" syndrome. But seriously- Thrawn ain't gone for good.

[Gandalf]

Yawn. The resistance is just boring. They are basically a pale imitation of the rebel alliance.

Or they're the same idea for a new generation of fans.

[The Romulan Republic]

Yawn. The resistance is just boring. They are basically a pale imitation of the rebel alliance.

Or they're the same idea for a new generation of fans.

It depends on how cynical you are, and how predisposed you are to attack or defend the new films.

That said... as someone who generally defends the sequel trilogy, the Resistance very much are Rebel Alliance 2.0, right down to having largely the same leadership and spacecraft types. IIRC, they even drop the pretense and refer to them as the Rebellion at the end of TLJ.

They had an opportunity to do something different, with the Resistance being an unofficial, controversial proxy for the NR against the FO in TFA, and the political and ethical complications that could arise from that situation- its hinted at in the film, but to say that political world-building was not the priority for TFA would be a huge understatement (if anything, they seem to have deliberately shunned it, I suspect due to whining over the "boring Senate scenes" in the Prequels).

Frankly, at this point, its probably best to just regard the First Order vs Resistance as a continuation of the same Imperials vs. Rebels war in the OT, with rebranding. That does run the risk of undercutting the optimistic ending of RotJ (one of my main criticisms of the old EU was the decades-long anti-climactic and repetitive Galactic Civil War post-RotJ). But it basically is a continuation of the same conflict- just with a twenty or thirty year hiatus.

I wonder if future Star Wars historians would look back on the Clone Wars, Galactic Civil War, and... First Order War?... as all being one huge war with occasional temporary peaces and intermittent flare-ups, kind of like the series of wars between England and France which are collectively known as "the Hundred Years' War", or the series of conflicts in American history collectively known as the "Indian Wars" (which should really be given a less racist name).

[ray245]

Or they're the same idea for a new generation of fans.

It's not like the new fans don't watch the OT-era stuff.

[The Romulan Republic]

Trying to think of a good name for the war in the ST (since the obvious "Galactic Civil War" is used). The Second Galactic Civil War seems a bit too obvious, but I suppose its serviceable.

If treating the three major wars in the Star Wars film as one great conflict with periodic lulls, I'd suggest "The Seventy Years' War", or "The Great Sith War".

[Rogue 9]

It's a stretch to call the war against the First Order a civil war, since the New Republic never had governance of them.

[Gandalf]

Or they're the same idea for a new generation of fans.

It's not like the new fans don't watch the OT-era stuff.

Yes, but how do you really grow the brand with it?

[applejack]

Holy shit. This is like, a real thing? At first I thought you were just fucking around or working some inside joke for something less stupid. But they literally have biological, hyperspacing, SD destroying space monsters as a primary plot point in a series arc? Killing off one of the most well written and beloved SW villains in a fucking cartoon?

Yes.

At least they weren't too much of an asspull - their existense and Ezras ability to communicate with them were established earlier in the show.
The space-whales were introduced in Season 2 Episode 15 "The Call" and apparently in the new canon these space-whales are the base or at least the inspiration for hyperdrive technology.

Does anyone actually think either Thrawn or Pellaeon are dead? Thrawn especially. He's a popular character, "killed" in a cartoon that's about to get a sequel by people with a history of resurrecting popular characters despite implausibility (Ashoka, Maul), and we never even saw a body.

Thrawn's alive. I'd put better than even money on Pelly coming back some day too.

You can worry about the risk of that cheapening character death in the franchise- the "comic book death" syndrome. But seriously- Thrawn ain't gone for good.

Dave Filoni confirms that Thrawn is alive.

Screen Rant

Star Wars Rebels: Dave Filoni Confirms (SPOILER) Survived

BY ANA DUMARAOG – ON MAR 06, 2018 IN TV NEWS
Spoiler Warning for Star Wars Rebels Ahead

Star Wars Rebels executive producer and writer Dave Filoni confirms that Ezra and Grand Admiral Thrawn survived the space whales' (Purrgil) jump to hyperspace taking on Thrawn's battered Star Destroyer with both of them aboard it. Rebels ended its four-year run with a relatively small-scale battle between the Ghost Crew and Grand Admiral Thrawn's forces on Lothal. While the Emperor appeared in a brief moment - seducing Ezra to his side (similar to what he did to Anakin), the show capped off in a contained way - fitting for a Star Wars show that is supposed to give us a different perspective on how the evil Galactic Empire's reign had a ripple effect across the universe.

It was an emotional farewell for the Star Wars animated prequel as the Ghost crew fulfilled their mission of protecting Lothal from the Empire's evil clutches. While the success did not come without losses with Kanan and Clone Trooper Gregor, the death count was relatively low (on the good guys' side) compared to what we're expecting. Further, the show's uplifting ending seemingly sets up a slew of brand new adventure for our heroes.

Sitting down with Andi Gutierrez of the Star Wars Show, Filoni confirms that Ezra and Thrawn survive their unconventional jump into hyperspace, ending a stream of fan debate online before they even heated. He also explains why he opted to end Rebels the way he did - open for further exploration but doesn't neccessarily have the sense of urgency to do just that:

I felt a lot about that... It's one of those things that you go "oh boy I love the idea of an end credits scenes" but as tempting as that is but I go "well if I cover that, then I want to do it right" and I don't want to commit to things right now because things might change. So I have a lot of theories about it and what I think happens and where they are. I'll say this much, they're not dead. Both of them survive, both Ezra and Thrawn I would say survive it.

Meanwhile, in a separate Q&A attended by EW, Filoni further talked about Rebels' finale, particularly how it felt as if it's already planting plot seeds for a brand new series, much of it is courtesy of the flash forward sequence where Sabine caught us up with what the Ghost crew members have been doing since Lothal's liberation. At this point, with both Ezra and Thrawn just waiting to be found, it's possible that a second round between the two is imminent.

“I’ve always felt the best stories end and then other stories begin, and there’s no better way to take two of my favorite characters and have them ride off into the sunset, like I’ve seen so many cowboys over the years, or Indiana Jones. One thing ends and another begins, and the story continues. That’s a saga.”

In retrospect, it's better that Filoni actually went ahead and confirmed that Ezra and Thrawn both live given that he's already played the " dead or not" card with Ahsoka. This way, the conversation could move on from the same realm of speculation and focus on where they could possibly be. Considering that by the time of the events of Return of the Jedi, Sabine (presumably with the help of Ahsoka) was still looking for Ezra, it's curious whether he was eventually found or not - a new mystery that could headline a new show, or perhaps tackled in a live-action film. For a Disney XD series, Rebels has expanded and explored the lore in ways we could've never imagined, providing Filoni the creative license to introduce us to a new concept or realm that would service that story. However, it pans out, Filoni's comments only prove that he has some bigger plan ideas instead of just winging it with Star Wars Rebels, and for longtime fans, that's much appreciated.

[ray245]

Or they're the same idea for a new generation of fans.

It's not like the new fans don't watch the OT-era stuff.

Yes, but how do you really grow the brand with it?

Be creative?

[The Romulan Republic]

Yes.

At least they weren't too much of an asspull - their existense and Ezras ability to communicate with them were established earlier in the show.
The space-whales were introduced in Season 2 Episode 15 "The Call" and apparently in the new canon these space-whales are the base or at least the inspiration for hyperdrive technology.

Does anyone actually think either Thrawn or Pellaeon are dead? Thrawn especially. He's a popular character, "killed" in a cartoon that's about to get a sequel by people with a history of resurrecting popular characters despite implausibility (Ashoka, Maul), and we never even saw a body.

Thrawn's alive. I'd put better than even money on Pelly coming back some day too.

You can worry about the risk of that cheapening character death in the franchise- the "comic book death" syndrome. But seriously- Thrawn ain't gone for good.

Dave Filoni confirms that Thrawn is alive.

Screen Rant

Star Wars Rebels: Dave Filoni Confirms (SPOILER) Survived

BY ANA DUMARAOG – ON MAR 06, 2018 IN TV NEWS
Spoiler Warning for Star Wars Rebels Ahead

Star Wars Rebels executive producer and writer Dave Filoni confirms that Ezra and Grand Admiral Thrawn survived the space whales' (Purrgil) jump to hyperspace taking on Thrawn's battered Star Destroyer with both of them aboard it. Rebels ended its four-year run with a relatively small-scale battle between the Ghost Crew and Grand Admiral Thrawn's forces on Lothal. While the Emperor appeared in a brief moment - seducing Ezra to his side (similar to what he did to Anakin), the show capped off in a contained way - fitting for a Star Wars show that is supposed to give us a different perspective on how the evil Galactic Empire's reign had a ripple effect across the universe.

It was an emotional farewell for the Star Wars animated prequel as the Ghost crew fulfilled their mission of protecting Lothal from the Empire's evil clutches. While the success did not come without losses with Kanan and Clone Trooper Gregor, the death count was relatively low (on the good guys' side) compared to what we're expecting. Further, the show's uplifting ending seemingly sets up a slew of brand new adventure for our heroes.

Sitting down with Andi Gutierrez of the Star Wars Show, Filoni confirms that Ezra and Thrawn survive their unconventional jump into hyperspace, ending a stream of fan debate online before they even heated. He also explains why he opted to end Rebels the way he did - open for further exploration but doesn't neccessarily have the sense of urgency to do just that:

I felt a lot about that... It's one of those things that you go "oh boy I love the idea of an end credits scenes" but as tempting as that is but I go "well if I cover that, then I want to do it right" and I don't want to commit to things right now because things might change. So I have a lot of theories about it and what I think happens and where they are. I'll say this much, they're not dead. Both of them survive, both Ezra and Thrawn I would say survive it.

Meanwhile, in a separate Q&A attended by EW, Filoni further talked about Rebels' finale, particularly how it felt as if it's already planting plot seeds for a brand new series, much of it is courtesy of the flash forward sequence where Sabine caught us up with what the Ghost crew members have been doing since Lothal's liberation. At this point, with both Ezra and Thrawn just waiting to be found, it's possible that a second round between the two is imminent.

“I’ve always felt the best stories end and then other stories begin, and there’s no better way to take two of my favorite characters and have them ride off into the sunset, like I’ve seen so many cowboys over the years, or Indiana Jones. One thing ends and another begins, and the story continues. That’s a saga.”

In retrospect, it's better that Filoni actually went ahead and confirmed that Ezra and Thrawn both live given that he's already played the " dead or not" card with Ahsoka. This way, the conversation could move on from the same realm of speculation and focus on where they could possibly be. Considering that by the time of the events of Return of the Jedi, Sabine (presumably with the help of Ahsoka) was still looking for Ezra, it's curious whether he was eventually found or not - a new mystery that could headline a new show, or perhaps tackled in a live-action film. For a Disney XD series, Rebels has expanded and explored the lore in ways we could've never imagined, providing Filoni the creative license to introduce us to a new concept or realm that would service that story. However, it pans out, Filoni's comments only prove that he has some bigger plan ideas instead of just winging it with Star Wars Rebels, and for longtime fans, that's much appreciated.

Not surprised they pulled through. I'm a bit surprised (pleasantly so) that Filoni just said it, rather than playing coy for a couple of years about something that we all know is going to happen.

As to the "where"... I'm guessing this is how Disney Thrawn ends up in the Unknown Regions? Its the only thing that really fits (ridiculous as I find the concept of the Unknown Regions in Star Wars canon).

Edit: Be interesting (and I think its plausible) if Ezra and Thrawn had to work together to survive. So we could end up with an uneasy alliance between a darker Ezra, and a Thrawn who is, if not friendly towards the Rebels/Jedi, at least willing to work with them when its to their mutual advantage, and extend some grudging respect to them.

I know its shameless fan wank, but I kind of want to see the timeline where Ezra (now a Jedi Master) and an elderly Thrawn (hmm, do we know how long their species live) find their way back after forty years or so... just in time to shove a boot up the First Order's ass.

I mean, I defend the Sequel Trilogy. On the whole, I like the Sequel Trilogy. But there's just no getting around the fact that Thrawn is better than what passes for leadership in the FO.

That would make a great alternate ending to The Last Jedi, actually. Just picture it: the Resistance is fleeing on its transports, being blown up one by one. Kylo and Rey are dueling for control of Luke's lightsaber on board the Supremacy. Holdo is about to kamikaze the FO fleet in a last-ditch attempt to save the Resistance. Luke is nowhere to be found (so far as anyone knows)...

And then suddenly a squadron of Imperial Star Destroyers drops out of hyperspace behind the Supremacy, commanded by the greatest Grand Admiral the Empire ever had, backed up by a Jedi survivor no one expected.

Tell me you don't want to see that.

[Crazedwraith]

That would make a great alternate ending to The Last Jedi, actually. Just picture it: the Resistance is fleeing on its transports, being blown up one by one. Kylo and Rey are dueling for control of Luke's lightsaber on board the Supremacy. Holdo is about to kamikaze the FO fleet in a last-ditch attempt to save the Resistance. Luke is nowhere to be found (so far as anyone knows)...

And then suddenly a squadron of Imperial Star Destroyers drops out of hyperspace behind the Supremacy, commanded by the greatest Grand Admiral the Empire ever had, backed up by a Jedi survivor no one expected.

Tell me you don't want to see that.

I don't want to see that.

The Imperial Remnant should not be set up as the heroes and saviours as all. Thrawn certainly shouldn't. He's a villain albeit a good one, and the end of a film should double plus not depend on you watching the expanded universe cartoon.

(I redeemed Empire/Thrawn could work but should be sprung from nowhere, it needs build up and justification.)

[The Romulan Republic]

That would make a great alternate ending to The Last Jedi, actually. Just picture it: the Resistance is fleeing on its transports, being blown up one by one. Kylo and Rey are dueling for control of Luke's lightsaber on board the Supremacy. Holdo is about to kamikaze the FO fleet in a last-ditch attempt to save the Resistance. Luke is nowhere to be found (so far as anyone knows)...

And then suddenly a squadron of Imperial Star Destroyers drops out of hyperspace behind the Supremacy, commanded by the greatest Grand Admiral the Empire ever had, backed up by a Jedi survivor no one expected.

Tell me you don't want to see that.

I don't want to see that.

The Imperial Remnant should not be set up as the heroes and saviours as all. Thrawn certainly shouldn't.

That's a fair point, and my main misgiving about what I fully admit is a fan-wanky idea. Thrawn may be a cool character, but in the real world, the last thing we need right now is more media which shows fascists as saviors.

Then again, redemption is a major theme of the Star Wars saga. Its harder to justify with Thrawn, however, because there's no influence of the Dark Side (presumably) that made him fall. He was an intelligent man who chose to serve evil with open eyes, and of his own free will. I seem to recall a line from Carth in Knights of the Old Republic, about how the officers who served under the Sith were worse than the Sith themselves, for pretty much that reason.

You could probably do a Thrawn redemption story, but it would have to be handled very carefully, and would require a lot of backstory to justify it.

He's a villain albeit a good one, and the end of a film should double plus not depend on you watching the expanded universe cartoon.

Well, you're right that understanding a film's ending should not depend on having watched a separate show. Obviously, it wouldn't have actually worked if they'd just sprung that in theatres. But I mean as an alt. universe story, specifically targeted at the sort of hard core fans who would be likely to read/watch an alt. universe Star Wars story.

(I redeemed Empire/Thrawn could work but should be sprung from nowhere, it needs build up and justification.)

My take on this is that a redeemed Thrawn could possibly work, but not a redeemed Empire. The Empire by design is rotten to the core. The fascism, Dark Side theocracy and genocide aren't bugs- they're features. To build something good in its place, you would have to completely redesign the Imperial system, and then it wouldn't be the Empire any more.

As to springing it from nowhere- I think it would make an interesting "holy shit" twist, with everyone trying to figure out what the hell just happened, not trusting these newcomers, etc., and then go back and show how things reached that point via a series of flashbacks.

[Gandalf]

It's not like the new fans don't watch the OT-era stuff.

Yes, but how do you really grow the brand with it?

Be creative?

If that's your answer I don't think you understand the discussion.

[Gandalf]

And then suddenly a squadron of Imperial Star Destroyers drops out of hyperspace behind the Supremacy, commanded by the greatest Grand Admiral the Empire ever had, backed up by a Jedi survivor no one expected.

Tell me you don't want to see that.

I don't. Thrawn is a shitty fanwank character whose sole purpose seems based around making fanboys go "OMG MILITARY HARDCORE." Fuck him.

[ray245]

If that's your answer I don't think you understand the discussion.

You grow the brand by making the new era distinct from the OT era. Otherwise, you'll just be copying the OT era until audience get sick and tired of it.

[NecronLord]

That would make a great alternate ending to The Last Jedi, actually. Just picture it: the Resistance is fleeing on its transports, being blown up one by one. Kylo and Rey are dueling for control of Luke's lightsaber on board the Supremacy. Holdo is about to kamikaze the FO fleet in a last-ditch attempt to save the Resistance. Luke is nowhere to be found (so far as anyone knows)...

And then suddenly a squadron of Imperial Star Destroyers drops out of hyperspace behind the Supremacy, commanded by the greatest Grand Admiral the Empire ever had, backed up by a Jedi survivor no one expected.

Tell me you don't want to see that.

"Lord Snoke, I place myself at your disposal. I will rapidly eliminate your enemies."

And then he does.



He's a fucking thug. He has some talent, but he's still a thug.

[Gandalf]

Between Thrawn and the biochipped Clones, SW sure knows how to put a friendly and marketable face on fascism.

[The Romulan Republic]

Agreed that Thrawn is a villain, and a killer. Obviously.

Not sure I agree that he'd back Snoke. Legends Thrawn would not, I think- he would not view Snoke as a legitimate successor to the Empire, and would deplore the incompetency of men like Hux.

Disney Thrawn, I'm not sure.

My idea (which, again, I admit is basically fan-wank) was of a Thrawn who spent decades stranded in the Unknown Regions with a badly damaged fleet, having to work with Ezra (and vice-versa) to survive, and, if not being redeemed, at least developing a grudging respect for the Jedi. Its an alt. universe Thrawn, in other words.

Though, a funny thing occurred to me while thinking about this:

Legends Thrawn's primary goal, IIRC, was to establish a strong, ordered galaxy, supposedly (or was this just fanon?) to fight against an outside threat. To do that, he went the authoritarian dictator route, like every internet wannabe-HARD MAN, only with a veneer of sophistication. But the irony is, arguably the only organization in Star Wars history that has actually managed to create an extended period of peace and security on a galactic scale is... the Jedi Order.

I wouldn't expect Thrawn to see that, though. Or rather, the problem is that he wanted Force users under his control, as extensions of his will.

Between Thrawn and the biochipped Clones, SW sure knows how to put a friendly and marketable face on fascism.

The biochipped clones is basically a handwave to reconcile the friendly Clone troopers of the Clone Wars cartoon with Order 66, yes?

I see where you're coming from, here, but while it may remove the Clones' culpability, I don't think that it actually makes the Empire or its fascism less horrific, that they mind-controlled millions of people into genociding their friends/comrades/commanders. Less subtle and realistic, maybe, but not less horrible.

[Gandalf]

Between Thrawn and the biochipped Clones, SW sure knows how to put a friendly and marketable face on fascism.

The biochipped clones is basically a handwave to reconcile the friendly Clone troopers of the Clone Wars cartoon with Order 66, yes?

I see where you're coming from, here, but while it may remove the Clones' culpability, I don't think that it actually makes the Empire or its fascism less horrific, that they mind-controlled millions of people into genociding their friends/comrades/commanders. Less subtle and realistic, maybe, but not less horrible.

I'm not sure exactly what your point is here.

[FaxModem1]

Agreed that Thrawn is a villain, and a killer. Obviously.

Not sure I agree that he'd back Snoke. Legends Thrawn would not, I think- he would not view Snoke as a legitimate successor to the Empire, and would deplore the incompetency of men like Hux.

Disney Thrawn, I'm not sure.

My idea (which, again, I admit is basically fan-wank) was of a Thrawn who spent decades stranded in the Unknown Regions with a badly damaged fleet, having to work with Ezra (and vice-versa) to survive, and, if not being redeemed, at least developing a grudging respect for the Jedi. Its an alt. universe Thrawn, in other words.

Though, a funny thing occurred to me while thinking about this:

Legends Thrawn's primary goal, IIRC, was to establish a strong, ordered galaxy, supposedly (or was this just fanon?) to fight against an outside threat. To do that, he went the authoritarian dictator route, like every internet wannabe-HARD MAN, only with a veneer of sophistication. But the irony is, arguably the only organization in Star Wars history that has actually managed to create an extended period of peace and security on a galactic scale is... the Jedi Order.

I wouldn't expect Thrawn to see that, though. Or rather, the problem is that he wanted Force users under his control, as extensions of his will.

In Outbound Flight, it was to deal with the Vong, who are immune to the force. The Jedi Order would have been rather useless against them. A militarized Galactic Republic could have stood against them, but we all know what happened there. That Thrawn got bamboozled by Palpatine under this reason is the justifaction as to why Thrawn didn't go to the Rebellion, and it's fanon that the idiocy of the New Republic is why he didn't go to them after the Empire fell.

In Disney Canon, via the book Star Wars Thrawn, he also used the reasoning of an external threat that he wishes to throw the Empire at so as to protect the Chiss. Said threat goes unnamed.