"Star Wars Resistance" is Disney's Newest Animated TV show

[The Romulan Republic]

Between Thrawn and the biochipped Clones, SW sure knows how to put a friendly and marketable face on fascism.

The biochipped clones is basically a handwave to reconcile the friendly Clone troopers of the Clone Wars cartoon with Order 66, yes?

I see where you're coming from, here, but while it may remove the Clones' culpability, I don't think that it actually makes the Empire or its fascism less horrific, that they mind-controlled millions of people into genociding their friends/comrades/commanders. Less subtle and realistic, maybe, but not less horrible.

I'm not sure exactly what your point is here.

Well, you said the bio-chipped clones was putting a friendly face on fascism. So I pointed out that it doesn't actually make the Empire any less horrific or more "friendly", in my opinions. It just shifts the clones from accomplices to victims (which they kind of were anyway, what with being engineered to be effectively slave soldiers, and raised/indoctrinated to be such as children).

[The Romulan Republic]

Agreed that Thrawn is a villain, and a killer. Obviously.

Not sure I agree that he'd back Snoke. Legends Thrawn would not, I think- he would not view Snoke as a legitimate successor to the Empire, and would deplore the incompetency of men like Hux.

Disney Thrawn, I'm not sure.

My idea (which, again, I admit is basically fan-wank) was of a Thrawn who spent decades stranded in the Unknown Regions with a badly damaged fleet, having to work with Ezra (and vice-versa) to survive, and, if not being redeemed, at least developing a grudging respect for the Jedi. Its an alt. universe Thrawn, in other words.

Though, a funny thing occurred to me while thinking about this:

Legends Thrawn's primary goal, IIRC, was to establish a strong, ordered galaxy, supposedly (or was this just fanon?) to fight against an outside threat. To do that, he went the authoritarian dictator route, like every internet wannabe-HARD MAN, only with a veneer of sophistication. But the irony is, arguably the only organization in Star Wars history that has actually managed to create an extended period of peace and security on a galactic scale is... the Jedi Order.

I wouldn't expect Thrawn to see that, though. Or rather, the problem is that he wanted Force users under his control, as extensions of his will.

In Outbound Flight, it was to deal with the Vong, who are immune to the force. The Jedi Order would have been rather useless against them. A militarized Galactic Republic could have stood against them, but we all know what happened there. That Thrawn got bamboozled by Palpatine under this reason is the justifaction as to why Thrawn didn't go to the Rebellion, and it's fanon that the idiocy of the New Republic is why he didn't go to them after the Empire fell.

In Disney Canon, via the book Star Wars Thrawn, he also used the reasoning of an external threat that he wishes to throw the Empire at so as to protect the Chiss. Said threat goes unnamed.

Oh, I hope they're not going to re-canonize the Vong.

[tezunegari]

Oh, I hope they're not going to re-canonize the Vong.

Just for the siths and giggles I would.

As a primitive single planet race at the outer most limit of the galactic space.
And at the end of the episode have an imperial Stardestroyer Captain say "Commence Base Delta Zero."
Of course the ending scene would include the Stardestroyer opening fire on the planet.

[Batman]

If it's an actual BDZ and not that mild drizzle we got in Rebels oh yes please please pretty please

[Crazedwraith]

Oh man, shitty ill-natured swipes at other parts of the franchise never get old.

[Batman]

Tell me the Vong don't have it coming

[The Romulan Republic]

Tell me the Vong don't have it coming

Yeah, I don't want them back in canon, but I wouldn't get a kick out of watching them genocided, either. Just leave them out of canon.

[Rogue 9]

The cartoon shows are never going to show a full scale planetary bombardment actually succeed, at least not as long as they're using Disney XD as their platform. The series finale of Rebels at least showed the order given only to be repelled by a theater shield; that's probably as much as we're going to get.

[Gandalf]

The biochipped clones is basically a handwave to reconcile the friendly Clone troopers of the Clone Wars cartoon with Order 66, yes?

I see where you're coming from, here, but while it may remove the Clones' culpability, I don't think that it actually makes the Empire or its fascism less horrific, that they mind-controlled millions of people into genociding their friends/comrades/commanders. Less subtle and realistic, maybe, but not less horrible.

I'm not sure exactly what your point is here.

Well, you said the bio-chipped clones was putting a friendly face on fascism. So I pointed out that it doesn't actually make the Empire any less horrific or more "friendly", in my opinions. It just shifts the clones from accomplices to victims (which they kind of were anyway, what with being engineered to be effectively slave soldiers, and raised/indoctrinated to be such as children).

What makes the Empire and these sorts of regimes terrifying isn't that they have some power mad guy at the centre, but that they have legions of people doing their dirty work. Stormtroopers storm the Tantive IV, kill Jawas, tear up the Lars homestead, and so on. Not the Emperor. This is taken further in ROTS with Order 66. They were all "just following orders." Commander Cody seemed to be friends with Obi-Wan, then he got the order, and the rest is history.

Imagine a story where the SS only did their stuff because of weird brain chips.

[Vympel]

The cartoon shows are never going to show a full scale planetary bombardment actually succeed, at least not as long as they're using Disney XD as their platform. The series finale of Rebels at least showed the order given only to be repelled by a theater shield; that's probably as much as we're going to get.

I didn't think it was given personally - all that happens is that Thrawn calls for a full bombardment of the city.

Re: Resistance, the latest issue of the Poe Dameron comic already sets up an obvious future contradiction. Poe says that the engagement over Maz's castle in TFA was the first time the Resistance openly fought the First Order (i.e. contrasting to the small scale ops we see in the comic, pre-TFA). I'm sure that Resistance will stick to that.

[Lord Revan]

I'm not sure exactly what your point is here.

Well, you said the bio-chipped clones was putting a friendly face on fascism. So I pointed out that it doesn't actually make the Empire any less horrific or more "friendly", in my opinions. It just shifts the clones from accomplices to victims (which they kind of were anyway, what with being engineered to be effectively slave soldiers, and raised/indoctrinated to be such as children).

What makes the Empire and these sorts of regimes terrifying isn't that they have some power mad guy at the centre, but that they have legions of people doing their dirty work. Stormtroopers storm the Tantive IV, kill Jawas, tear up the Lars homestead, and so on. Not the Emperor. This is taken further in ROTS with Order 66. They were all "just following orders." Commander Cody seemed to be friends with Obi-Wan, then he got the order, and the rest is history.

Imagine a story where the SS only did their stuff because of weird brain chips.

You still have those people doing the dirty work, after all someone had implant those chips into the brains of the clonetroopers.

The true horror and evil of fasism isn't that the leaders are "demons" who are physically unable to do anything that's not evil but rather that everyone from the leaders to grunts on the ground think what they're doing is for the greater good.

Clonetroopers having chips to ensure their obedience doesn't change that it simply shifts the minion status to the guys implanting the chips, also IIRC those chips were there to supplement more traditional indoctrination not replace it, this is shown in rebels where "being a soldier for the Republic" is pretty much all Rex knows how to do.

For all it's flaws Dice's BF2 did actually show an imperial prespective at start and also showed why someone who isn't 100% evil would follow the empire they're told that they're doing is needed for the greater good.

[Flanker_33]

Hey, "anime styled" doesn't necessarily mean panty shots, bouncey tits and catgirls (well, not that it's really bad, but... well, that's not what I'm talking about ) it can be something in the style of Ghost in the Shell, Black Lagoon or something like that, which would be adapted for the Star Wars universe.

And yes, the real horror of fascism is that people did the horrible stuff such as operating death camps, conducting medical experiments on random people, and raping entire cities (see Nanking, fascism isn't just Nazi Germany) did that without brain chips, and some survivors still defend what they did ; for example, I've seen reports about German veterans defending the burning down and slaughtering of entire villages in Belarus, Ukraine and Russia, and a very important issue in East Asian politics nowadays is that Japan keeps honoring its WW2 veterans as national heroes and refused to do anything to apologise for the Nanking Rape, comfort women, Unit 731 and all of that jazz. Without brain chips.

[Q99]

*Finally* something to flesh out the era, is my reaction. Filoni can do the world building that's been lacking in the films.

[The Romulan Republic]

There is that, yes. I'd particularly like to see more of Luke's Order, Snoke, the NR's politics, and how Luke went from being the man who risked everything to save Vader, to the man who considered preemptively killing his nephew.

I'd also hope to see Mara Jade reintroduced to canon, perhaps as a member of Luke's order (sadly, this would probably mean Mara dying before TFA).

Also, as before, Thrawn and Ahsoka (I honestly cannot bring myself to care about Ezra). And since Solo's ending is begging for a follow-up, I'd like to know what Spoiler

happened to Qi'ra after she went to join Maul.

[Knife]

Gah, here's hoping they don't make Ezra into Snoke. Rough timeline is about right, figure Rebels was 10-15 years post ROTS, and Ezra was young teen at the start and late teen at the end. Making it conservative, 15 years old, plus 5 years for the start of ANH, 3 years of galactic civil war, then 30 years to get to TFA would make him 63 years old. A person trained in the Force, a lot of it by a classical Jedi, some of it by an actual Sith Lord. He was a known entity by the Emperor but then was lost for ... well who know's how long.

I'd hate to see him flipped into a baddie after his character growth in Rebels, but he does fill a lot of holes TFA and TLJ made in who the hell Snoke was.

[The Romulan Republic]

Gah, here's hoping they don't make Ezra into Snoke. Rough timeline is about right, figure Rebels was 10-15 years post ROTS, and Ezra was young teen at the start and late teen at the end. Making it conservative, 15 years old, plus 5 years for the start of ANH, 3 years of galactic civil war, then 30 years to get to TFA would make him 63 years old. A person trained in the Force, a lot of it by a classical Jedi, some of it by an actual Sith Lord. He was a known entity by the Emperor but then was lost for ... well who know's how long.

I'd hate to see him flipped into a baddie after his character growth in Rebels, but he does fill a lot of holes TFA and TLJ made in who the hell Snoke was.

Unless the showrunners just lost 50 or so IQ points, that's not happening. There is NO reason to actually believe that Ezra is Snoke, just like there was no reason to believe that Snoke is Plageus. Seriously, I think fans just pulled "Snoke is x" theories out of a hat. Most importantly, Snoke is visibly not human.

For that matter, I'm not sure why Snoke's origins are so important. We never got an origin story for Palps either, beyond "He's a Sith" and "He's a Senator".

But until proven otherwise, I'm standing by the "Snoke is an Imperial Inquisitor" theory. It just fits so well. It explains why he would have high-end Sith-like abilities without being a Sith. It would explain why he's so interested in Vader's bloodline (besides the obvious desire for power), because Vader trained/commanded the Inquisitors. It gives him a connection to past continuity without being really contrived, destroying an existing character, or upstaging Palpatine. It fits with "Rebels", since IIRC there are supposed to be 13 inquisitors, and only three ever appeared on-screen. It would give Snoke knowledge of/access to Imperial military technology and ex-Imperial officers to build his First Order. It would explain why he has a grudge against the Rebels/Luke, besides just being a Dark Sider, since as an inquisitor he would have likely lost his position of power and been forced to flee when the Empire fell.

You could still tie him in with Ezra and Thrawn, though. Been reading the TLJ novelization, and one interesting tidbit is that the First Order secretly built up a lot of power conquering in the Unknown Regions. Put Snoke out there, maybe hunting for long-lost Sith artifacts or something (he has this whole "Dark Side philosopher/historian" vibe I'd like to see more of). That puts him safely out of the way of the Empire's collapse, and gives him a starting point to build up his regime in secret, while letting him cross paths with Ezra and Thrawn to tie it into "Rebels"/"Resistance".

It just works so damn well.

[Elheru Aran]

Just out of curiosity: why exactly do you think Snoke isn't human? He's a bit fucked up about the head and face, but I don't particularly see any reason to assume he isn't.

The Inquisitor thing might work out though. The Marvel comics have been exploring Vader's off-screen adventures, and the Inquisitors have been popping up here and there.

[The Romulan Republic]

Just out of curiosity: why exactly do you think Snoke isn't human? He's a bit fucked up about the head and face, but I don't particularly see any reason to assume he isn't.

The Inquisitor thing might work out though. The Marvel comics have been exploring Vader's off-screen adventures, and the Inquisitors have been popping up here and there.

Wookieepedia's page for Snoke describes him as "...a Force-sensitive humanoid male alien..." Aside from having facial features that, if he were human, would make Palpatine's deformities look mild in comparison, he is also pretty tall for a human- not to the extent that his giant holograms would imply, but even seated and leaning forward, he's about as tall as a standing Rey in TLJ when they're face to face.

He is clearly meant to be alien, so him turning out to be Ezra, or any human or known species, while theoretically possible, would be a major retcon.

[Elheru Aran]

Pretty sure Wookiee isn't canon but if they pulled it from a canon book, that's fine. I did recall his height after I posted. The features I always interpreted as being the result of accident or assault, so they're obviously not natural. And to be honest I don't think changing his species, whatever it may be, to human would constitute 'major' as his species has never particularly mattered in the little material we've gotten about him so far, only that he's some form of Force user, probably a Dark Sider of some kind, and in charge of the First Order.

But I'm also pretty sure they wouldn't bother putting Ezra from the TV shows into the movies, so I'm 96%-ish certain it's moot, particularly seeing Snoke is well deceased at this point.

[The Romulan Republic]

Pretty sure Wookiee isn't canon but if they pulled it from a canon book, that's fine. I did recall his height after I posted. The features I always interpreted as being the result of accident or assault, so they're obviously not natural. And to be honest I don't think changing his species, whatever it may be, to human would constitute 'major' as his species has never particularly mattered in the little material we've gotten about him so far, only that he's some form of Force user, probably a Dark Sider of some kind, and in charge of the First Order.

But I'm also pretty sure they wouldn't bother putting Ezra from the TV shows into the movies, so I'm 96%-ish certain it's moot, particularly seeing Snoke is well deceased at this point.

Some of his features look non-natural. Others, its hard to say. But the height would be... certainly an outlier for a human, at least. Not sure, but I think his hands are a bit different, too. I couldn't tell for certain, but in some shots it looked like his first finger was longer than his second.

I do think its unlikely that they're going to make Ezra Snoke, but it would be very easy to incorporate Snoke into the TV show if its set pre-TLJ, and I think that's likely to be done.

Mind you, I also think that given the clashes between what TFA appeared to set up and where TLJ went with it, there is probably at least a good 30-40% chance of Abrams retconning Snoke as alive in Episode IX (if he is permitted to do so).

[Elheru Aran]

I'm preeeeetttty sure they wouldn't let him bring Snoke back. Star Wars has never really gone into resurrection all that much. Over-use of some characters, yeah. But when a character is explicitly killed and shown deceased on screen... I don't see it happening. Not to mention that it'd utterly hamstring what little development Kylo Ren had in TLJ.

[The Romulan Republic]

I'm preeeeetttty sure they wouldn't let him bring Snoke back. Star Wars has never really gone into resurrection all that much. Over-use of some characters, yeah. But when a character is explicitly killed and shown deceased on screen... I don't see it happening. Not to mention that it'd utterly hamstring what little development Kylo Ren had in TLJ.

I doubt they'd let him do it, but I don't rule it out. And "...never really gone into resurrection all that much."? Um...

-Maul (this one is now film-level canon, thanks to Solo).
-Ahsoka. Introduced practical time travel and possible timeline alteration to do it. Like Maul, done by the people running this show.
-Palpatine in the old EU. Repeatedly.
-Boba Fett.
-The PC in the Force Unleashed Games in the old EU, I believe.

Pretty sure Assaj Ventress and Shak Ti had multiple deaths too. And probably some others I'm missing. Seriously, they're pretty much at Marvel/DC levels of character resurrection now.

As to ruining Kylo's development, its a potential problem, yes, though you could still have a Kylo vs. Snoke conflict which the heroes could then take advantage of. Still, feels like retreading old ground. I never said that it was a good idea, just that it could happen.

[Elheru Aran]

Maul and Fett are the only two that are really fair to describe as 'resurrections'. They were clearly intended to be killed, and were only brought back later on in the EU, though I suppose Clone Wars isn't technically EU.

Palpatine is something of a special case IMO as he deliberately set up his own resurrection, and I've always considered the Dark Empire saga to be of -very- questionable canonicity. I'm hardly the only fan to think so, either.

Games likewise are pretty low on the canon levels; I don't know if TFU was even canon. It definitely had a few levels that explicitly weren't. It also used that highly questionable 'Force transference of the soul' technique introduced by Dark Empire and pretty much never seen again until TFU.

Ahsoka is very new and is more of a time-travel gag than a character actually being killed and brought back to life. The original bit where she fought Vader was highly ambiguous as I recall, so one can't safely say she was supposed to actually be killed, unless that was revealed in the Rebels finale, and of course I've never watched Rebels.

Shaak Ti, as far as I know, never had multiple deaths; she had a death scene filmed in RotS but didn't make it into the final edit, and supposedly escaped the Jedi Purge only to be killed in one of the Force Unleashed games.

Ventress is a case of escaping at the last minute most of the time.

Really what happens most of the time in Wars is that someone's going to fall off a cliff/their ship explodes/whatever, people go 'oh noes [character] is dead', a few scenes or chapters later they pop back up at a Dramatic Moment. In my book, that's not really 'resurrection', as we don't see the character die on-screen (or on the page, whatever) and thus their end is not guaranteed. It's certainly not as bad as the comic books or even most TV shows. It's maybe worse than Star Trek, I guess.

[The Romulan Republic]

Well, technically, none of the ones I listed were unambiguously killed and brought back to life except Palps, and even that involved transplanting of souls into Clone bodies. But a number of them were pretty clearly intended to be dead at the time, and then retconned to be not-dead through various means. I'll give you Ahsoka being ambiguous from the start.

Not sure about Shak-ti and Ventress, but Maul and Fett definitely apply. As for TFU, its my understanding that under pre-Disney canon policy, game storylines were generally canon excluding alternate endings and such, while gameplay mechanics were obviously not (so for example, the broad strokes of events in TFU's story would be canon, but you couldn't use gameplay feats as canon examples of Force powers).

Of course, TFU got decanonized in the Great Disney Purge, along with the rest of the old EU, and to my knowledge it has not been recanonized as of yet.

Edit: I think Ventress's death got changed when the Disney EU reboot happened. But even if you discount that (she wasn't brought back in-universe, they just changed the canon policy), there's at least four unambiguous examples of major characters being brought back, two of which are still canon.

[Elheru Aran]

When was Ventress killed anyway? The last i remember of her was trying to mug Dooku, failing, and doing a runner...