Negotiations at Minos Korva

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2003-03-25 05:14pm

A "How would the Empire have handled this situation?" thread...

In TNG's "Chain of Command", Captain Edward Jellico took command of the Enterprise in order to negotiate a developing dispute with the Cardassians.

History
Captain Jellico adopted an aggressive negotiating posture. He correctly deduced that Cardassian forces were gathering in a nearby nebula for an incursion into Federation territory. Moving the Enterprise near the nebula, he sent Riker into the nebula in a shuttle to lay mines that would stick to the hulls of the Cardassian ships. By threatening to detonate the mines if the Cardassians did not withdraw their ships, Jellico was able to force them to capitulate.

Federation Forces
The Federation sent one ship to the Cardassian border, the USS Enterprise 1701-D. Immediately upon assuming command, Captain Jellico gave orders to maximize the ship's combat posture by diverting power from secondary systems to the ship's engines, weapons, and shields.

Cardassian Forces
The Cardassians sent one cruiser to meet the Enterprise with their negotiator on board. An unspecified number of Cardassian warships lurked in the nebula, awaiting the order to invade Federation space.

Empire as the Federation
The Empire would have one premium warship at its disposal for the mission. A single Imperator-class Star Destroyer would probably be comparable, although particularly evil debaters might send an Executor-class Star Destroyer, instead.

Empire as the Cardassians
The Empire would send a single ISD to meet the Enterprise, while a small fleet of warships (more ISDs in all likelihood) lurked in the nebula.

Discussion
How would the Empire behave in each position? Is the Federation/Cardassian opposition hopelessly screwed, or do they actually have a chance of scoring a military/political victory?

Kerneth · Post by **Kerneth** » 2003-03-25 05:43pm

The problem is that in either case the Imperial warship(s) so vastly overpower the Federation or Cardassian vessels--even an entire fleet of Cardassian warships!--that negotiations are unnecessary and indeed pointless. Regardless of which side you sub the Empire into, the Imperial warship simply destroys the opposition and carries on with its duties.

Politically, it'd depend highly on whether or not the Empire thought the other side could be useful. If the Empire wanted something the Cardassians or Federation had, then it would try negotiating--from a position of extreme strength, given the enormous advantages the Empire would have as mentioned earlier. If the Empire didn't need anything from the opposition, it would simply go straight to open warfare.

Either way, the Federation or Cardassians are screwed.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-03-25 05:50pm

Well, since the E-D was suppossed to be the strongest, and most famous ship in the fleet, I'd have to select the same from the Empire to go meet them

The Eclipse

I wouldn't bother with negotiations, I'd just go and destroy the fleet

As the Cardassians, I'd tell them to go ahead and blow the mines, they won't do much aganist that armor.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-03-25 05:52pm

Ted C wrote:Empire as the Federation
The Empire would have one premium warship at its disposal for the mission. A single Imperator-class Star Destroyer would probably be comparable, although particularly evil debaters might send an Executor-class Star Destroyer, instead.

I don't see why this is unreasonable.

The Enterprise-D was a Galaxy-class and a pride of Starfleet.

The Imperator-class vessels were destroyers. I would think an Executor-class vessel or perhaps a battleship of the class used by Admiral Giel would be a more appropriate counterpart to the Enterprise-D.

Kerneth · Post by **Kerneth** » 2003-03-25 06:00pm

Is an Executor or Eclipse appropriate? Yes.

Necessary? No.

The Empire wasn't stupid. One ISD would scare the hell out of the Cardassians OR Federation the moment they got a sensor scan of its power output. There would be no reason to send a command ship.

Of course, if you wanted to send a command ship with Darth Vader on it, the negotiations would at least be short. As soon as the other negotiator comes on screen, Vader Force-chokes him.

Admiral Johnason · Post by **Admiral Johnason** » 2003-03-25 10:26pm

All you would need to equal the E-D is the star destroyer Devasator, Vader's old ship. You would threaten to destablize the nebula, never mind how, if they don't surrender. If they don't, we would keep our word and any ship that makes it out in one or two pieces gets blown away.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-03-25 10:30pm

Empire as the Federation
The Empire would have one premium warship at its disposal for the mission. A single Imperator-class Star Destroyer would probably be comparable, although particularly evil debaters might send an Executor-class Star Destroyer, instead.

Well, seeing as how the nterprise is the Federation flagship you would have to send the Imperial flagship Executor...

Empire as Cardassians
The Empire would send a single ISD to meet the Enterprise, while a small fleet of warships (more ISDs in all likelihood) lurked in the nebula.

the thing about this is that the Empire will be allowed multiple capital ships to oppose the Enterprise D. Even if it were a handful of Corvettes, Carracks, or Nebulon Bs it would be an overhwelming firepower advantage.

How would the Empire behave in each position?

The same way they behave every night Pinky, they try to take over the quadrant! Seriously though, it would be a dominant military victory either way. the only way I can see the battl ebeing interesting is if you substitue the Enterprise D with a Lancer Frigate or Blackade Runner.

Lord of the Farce · Post by **Lord of the Farce** » 2003-03-25 10:40pm

Empire as the Federation: Using only an ISD (maybe a VSD, if we want to play it conservative, while maintaining the intimidation factor), tell the Cardies to piss off, or we will let rip with a few volleys of HTL... Before going off to barbeque a few of their planets.

Empire as Cardassians: Just in case they managed to somehow sneak some mines past the shields, back out of the nebula and inspect for mines, then turn around and vaporise the Enterprise for wasting your time with a bluff. Yeah, I know that they couldn't really do much to the fleet, even if they get some mines past the shields, but its better than to have to get repairs done.

seanrobertson · Post by **seanrobertson** » 2003-03-30 03:28pm

Ted C wrote:
Discussion
How would the Empire behave in each position? Is the Federation/Cardassian opposition hopelessly screwed, or do they actually have a chance of scoring a military/political victory?

In both cases, I would simply use my ISD (no need to bother with Executor since I want to intimidate them in another way), incapcitate the negotiator's/enemy ships, then board them. I'd probably use some kind of gas to knock everybody out, then I'd bring the commander(s) onboard the ISD.

Then I'd hyperjump to Earth or Cardassia and bring that commander to the bridge, with a good view of what's about to happen. I'd probably melt a continent to show them that, if they don't give me everything I want, I'll make them pay dearly.

Not much of a good-spirited negotiation, I know, but I imagine they'd give in to my demands. Worst-case scenario is that they'd be really gutsy and just fight me harder, in which instance they still lose...if I honestly the Federation or Cardassians were able to assemble a fleet big enough to threaten me, I'd just jump out of the system and bombard something else until they were on their knees pleading for mercy. After losing a few core worlds and billions of people in a matter of hours, I'm sure both powers would be ready to talk then.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2003-03-30 05:28pm

Empire as Federation:
Nothing. The Cardassians wanted a bunch of worlds. Fuck them, my ISD could destroy their whole invasion fleet, and then conquer Cardassian Space.

Empire as Cardassians:
Nothing. I'd take the worlds I wanted, and blow away any Federation resistance.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2003-03-30 08:09pm

Interesting note. When Jelico took command one of the secondary systems he had shut down was the Replicators. He put everyone on rations instead. The Crew did not like Jelico, expectially Riker, because they saw him as a warmonger.

Typhonis 1 · Post by **Typhonis 1** » 2003-03-30 08:23pm

hmm did he shut them down or limit them to making predetermined rations?

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-03-30 08:25pm

Jellico seems like a proper military captain. What happened to him?

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-03-30 08:27pm

HemlockGrey wrote:Jellico seems like a proper military captain. What happened to him?

Forgotten forever by B&B.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-03-30 08:55pm

Obviously this scenario is mismatched.

How would the Empire handle this scenario if the opposing force had technology equal to that of the Empire?

Admiral Johnason · Post by **Admiral Johnason** » 2003-03-31 05:46pm

They would use better tatics and a heavier ship.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2003-04-01 12:22am

HemlockGrey wrote:Jellico seems like a proper military captain. What happened to him?

In Peter David's New Frontier series he's a Admiral who oversees the specific area of space that they are always dealing with in those books. He may also be incharge of assigning captains to ships but I don't recall.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2003-04-01 12:29am

Clearly the Empire would surrender immediately, recognising the fact that they could do no damage in the face of Star Trek's overwhelming technical superiority.

What, I'm serious, really.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2003-04-01 01:13am

you know I've been thinking

If the Empire sends it most powerful ship that would be the Death Star with tarkin in command!

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2003-04-01 09:28am

Isolder74 wrote:you know I've been thinking

If the Empire sends it most powerful ship that would be the Death Star with tarkin in command!

That would be playing right into Federation hands, and maybe the Cardassians, too. Since a SW fighter can get through the Death Stars shielding to strafe the surface, a Federation shuttle or runabout obviously could, too. Both are also small enough to evade turbolaser fire. Once under the shield, they could use transporters to deploy anti-matter explosives, aggressive nanites, biochemical weapons, metagenic weapons, subspace mines, and vast numbers of Klingon shock troops using transporter cloning. The Death Star would be screwed.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2003-04-01 01:03pm

Ted C wrote:
Isolder74 wrote:you know I've been thinking

If the Empire sends it most powerful ship that would be the Death Star with tarkin in command!
That would be playing right into Federation hands, and maybe the Cardassians, too. Since a SW fighter can get through the Death Stars shielding to strafe the surface, a Federation shuttle or runabout obviously could, too. Both are also small enough to evade turbolaser fire. Once under the shield, they could use transporters to deploy anti-matter explosives, aggressive nanites, biochemical weapons, metagenic weapons, subspace mines, and vast numbers of Klingon shock troops using transporter cloning. The Death Star would be screwed.

That is assuming they KNOW about the design flaw just because the Rebels knew about it. and the 30 Tie fighter launched by Vader should be able to handle any Federation fighters. One thing it took someone with force attunment to actually hit the port! I don't think either the Feds or Cardies would have that available. BTW being under the capitol defense screen does not allow them to transport with impunity since the surface is still ray sheilded.

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2003-04-01 01:25pm

Isolder74 wrote:
Ted C wrote:
Isolder74 wrote:you know I've been thinking

If the Empire sends it most powerful ship that would be the Death Star with tarkin in command!
That would be playing right into Federation hands, and maybe the Cardassians, too. Since a SW fighter can get through the Death Stars shielding to strafe the surface, a Federation shuttle or runabout obviously could, too. Both are also small enough to evade turbolaser fire. Once under the shield, they could use transporters to deploy anti-matter explosives, aggressive nanites, biochemical weapons, metagenic weapons, subspace mines, and vast numbers of Klingon shock troops using transporter cloning. The Death Star would be screwed.
That is assuming they KNOW about the design flaw just because the Rebels knew about it. and the 30 Tie fighter launched by Vader should be able to handle any Federation fighters. One thing it took someone with force attunment to actually hit the port! I don't think either the Feds or Cardies would have that available. BTW being under the capitol defense screen does not allow them to transport with impunity since the surface is still ray sheilded.

Gotcha!

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2003-04-01 01:32pm

Don't tell that was a April Fools Thing

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2003-04-01 02:52pm

Isolder74 wrote:Don't tell that was a April Fools Thing

You mean that laundry list of fanatical Trekkie tactics didn't give it away?

seanrobertson · Post by **seanrobertson** » 2003-04-01 03:11pm

Ted C wrote:
Isolder74 wrote:you know I've been thinking

If the Empire sends it most powerful ship that would be the Death Star with tarkin in command!
That would be playing right into Federation hands, and maybe the Cardassians, too. Since a SW fighter can get through the Death Stars shielding to strafe the surface, a Federation shuttle or runabout obviously could, too. Both are also small enough to evade turbolaser fire. Once under the shield, they could use transporters to deploy anti-matter explosives, aggressive nanites, biochemical weapons, metagenic weapons, subspace mines, and vast numbers of Klingon shock troops using transporter cloning. The Death Star would be screwed.

That's fine, Ted. I believe the DS would be screwed, too...if the shuttle could carry all of that junk!

LOL. April Fools, harhar!

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Negotiations at Minos Korva

Negotiations at Minos Korva

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