The USS Enterprise is sent to assist the colony on Aegis 7 (Dead Space and Star Trek crosdover)

[Lord Revan]

Did he just try to bring Star Hyke into the discussion?!

Star Hyke? Never heard of that.

[Batman]

That makes two of us

[U.P. Cinnabar]

A SF series in development hell, which stars Claudia Christian. You Tube has a couple of trailers for it somewhere.

[tezunegari]

I apologize for the mass use of smileys.

While it appears the largest Enterprise, the Universe class Enterprise, the EJ is almost as big as the Ishimura and most likely would have some trouble fitting in the hangar bay,

The Universe class Enterprise (NCC-1701-J) is twice as long as the Ishimura...
I think you should consider a appointment with an optrician.

Of course, I was just joking. It'd still be hilarious to watch the expressions on the Ishimura's crew faces as the Universe Enterprise tried to back into their hangar bay.

the original Enterprise looks like it could fit it's rear engine nacelles inside the hangar without too much difficulty,

Why would someone put the nacelles into a shuttlebay?!

Well, that's where the ADS cannons fired at when the maniac took over the ADS control deck. The shells must be a few inches in diameter of solid steel and would do awful damage to the unshielded Enterprise, assuming Shields work against kinetic weapons and that the nacelles can be shielded. Anyway, the nacelles were hit and suffered branches and fires which needed to be repaired, before they blew up.


John Luke, who is the same character of Jean Luc before I realized they were the same character because of the odd pronunciation (they've never pronounced it as gee-Ann luck) had read about the Ishimura's shuttle doors in a historical book on starships, and memorized the modular shuttle doors which can clamp around odd shaped objects, such as the Enterprise's nacelles, meaning that the shuttle bay can be pressurized so engineers don't need to wear their hardsuits when working on the nacelles.

Funny thing is none of the Enterprise models can ever fit into the Shuttle bay of the Ishimura... and neither can their nacelles.

The Shuttle bay door is too low in height.



See the red blob in the center of the Ishimura? Those are the Hangar doors.

And then there is this:

Again, see the red part?
That's the flight deck - at least the top-most part. The hangar doors are directly in front of the fifth tower structure that hold the metal shields at both sides of the Ishimura.

And getting any of the ships there? Impossible, unless it's a shuttle and even a Runabout might have problems.

P.S.:
The images showing the Ishimura are using the in-Game model seen during the Intro when you arrive and "land".
The model wasn't perfectly straight - either they changed it in-game to look better or the extraction did something strange with the data.
Scale wise it's at the same size as the other images I've posted

[Lord Revan]

Yeah it all boils down to size and even the NX class (aka the smallest of the ships present) is wider then the main hull(or at least the part of the main hull where flight deck is) of the Ishimura let alone the flight deck doors.

One must remember that while Star Trek ships are small compared to some other scifi universes what they're not is actually all that small.

[Vendetta]

The shells must be a few inches in diameter of solid steel and would do awful damage to the unshielded Enterprise, assuming Shields work against kinetic weapons and that the nacelles can be shielded. Anyway, the nacelles were hit and suffered branches and fires which needed to be repaired, before they blew up.

The Ishimura's ADS cannons are not a particularly high velocity projectile. You have to lead targets which are mere seconds from impact by some margin. They're very likely lower velocity than a modern tank gun and not much larger in calibre.

Incidental collisions with even particulate matter at impulse speeds will be transferring vastly more energy than the ADS system.

Remember that the ADS is only intended to break up and deflect debris from the planet crack, it's not a weapon system.

[Tribble]

The shells must be a few inches in diameter of solid steel and would do awful damage to the unshielded Enterprise, assuming Shields work against kinetic weapons and that the nacelles can be shielded. Anyway, the nacelles were hit and suffered branches and fires which needed to be repaired, before they blew up.

The Ishimura's ADS cannons are not a particularly high velocity projectile. You have to lead targets which are mere seconds from impact by some margin. They're very likely lower velocity than a modern tank gun and not much larger in calibre.

Incidental collisions with even particulate matter at impulse speeds will be transferring vastly more energy than the ADS system.

Remember that the ADS is only intended to break up and deflect debris from the planet crack, it's not a weapon system.

So in other words, it probably wont even go through the E-D's navigational deflector?

[Vendetta]

So in other words, it probably wont even go through the E-D's navigational deflector?

In all likelihood, no.

In the turret section that everyone hates you can see the shells racked up on the sides of the turret, they're likely about 120-155mm based on their size comapared to Isaac's head.

They're not solid either, they're clearly high explosive of some kind because asteroids are known for many things but fiery explosions are not one of them, so they don't rely on high velocity impact.

[Lord Revan]

Some people don't seem to get that while "small and weak" compared to some other Scifi universes doesn't mean that Star Trek ships are weak or small compared to 21st century military tech.

[Batman]

The original Enterprise likely was bigger than an aircraft carrier, the damned things are FTL capable, and while photon torpedoes don't exceed modern day nuke yields, one should remember that for us those are weapons of mass destruction. For Trek you need several of those to just disable a ship.

[Lord Revan]

The original Enterprise likely was bigger than an aircraft carrier, the damned things are FTL capable, and while photon torpedoes don't exceed modern day nuke yields, one should remember that for us those are weapons of mass destruction. For Trek you need several of those to just disable a ship.

Exactly, but the OP seems to think they're only the size and strenght of a large(ish) shuttlecraft, essentially something you could easily disable with a 155mm cannon. He does seem to get that when we speak of Trek ships being small or weak its compared to either a specific universe (like Star Wars) or scifi ships in general and there's some true giants there both in terms of size and strenght.

[Jub]

Let's just compare the energy of half a gram of matter striking at ~2/3rds C to the explosive firepower of ten 155mm shells impacting at once and we'll see just how ludicrous the idea of these guns hurting the Enterprise is.

0.5 g of matter at 2e8 m/s will deliver ~15,400,000 MJ of energy to the target. Meanwhile, those ten shells, I'll use an M795 as our proxy, have a combined 108kg of TNT equivalent. Assuming perfect combustion the will deliver ~452 MJ of energy. Even assuming that the Big E's navigational screens are worse at dealing with a shell impacting and then exploding I doubt they'd be over 30,000 times worse at it.

Now you could say half a gram of matter would be exceedingly rare in areas where they would move at such high speeds but the difference is so vast you could cut the mass and the speed by ten times each and still be some 20 times more energetic. To say the Ishimura's ADS cannons pose a threat is insulting to the Enterprise in any of her forms.

[Lord Revan]

Though the TOS Enterprise is actually a bit shorter then the largest aircraft carriers we're not talking a big difference here, it's 285m for pre-refit and 305m for refit versions while the Nimitz class is 333m IIRC, though even at "worst" that's only 50m diffrence and the Constitution is the second smallest of those ships as the NX-class is "only" 225 metres long.

Either way these are huge ships that are capable of breaking orbit under their own power routinely with the power levels that implies.

[FancyDarcy]

Well, in Dead Space Extraction, the ADS cannons are shown obliterating a rogue mining shuttle trying to land at the Ishimura. Now, those mining shuttles are extremely robust and designed to take a heating from fast moving rocks and debris and even have a small autocannon at the top for extra defense, so seeing a shuttle getting blown to bits from a single shot is a testament of the power of the ADS cannons.

https://youtu.be/Hd5EguI1gUY?t=4862

After a few minutes after 1:20.00 you will see the scene I'm describing. The voice acting and graphics are really impressive in Extraction, by the way, it's almost better than the animated anime.

I dunno, but the original Enterprise was shown tio be vulnerable to airborne launched nuclear missiles the the episode where the Enterprise attacks a small air Force Base on earth, but I'd guess the newer Enterprise D is probably stronger.

How powerful ate space rocks that came from ripping out an enormous block of land from a planet? I'd imagine those space rocks to be fairly dangerous and I'd imagine a normal 155mmbl explosive shell probably wouldn't destroy enough of the rock quickly enough at those short ranges to neutralize the threat before it hits. Also, the Enterprise had her Shields lowered when they begin firing, as she was firing her tractor beam on one of the gravity tethers.

The ADS cannons were also specificalky aiming for the Naccelles which would probably be lighter armoured and shielded than the rest of the ship.

As for the transporters, let's just say that the exotic radiation from the Marker and all the energy from lifting up millions of tones of land mass with a couple lasers blocked the transporters from functioning safely. I mean, the transporters were disabled by monkeys building the ship in Star Trek V The Final Frontier, and so they sent a shuttle with around 20 to 30 people inside to attack a settlement but they lost the battle and were taken as prisoners. Even Spock decided to turn traitor for some reason and he doesn't act on emotion so the decision to betray the Starfleet crew must have been for a serious reason.

[U.P. Cinnabar]

Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong.

Dead Space mining shuttles are shuttles and have no shields. The Love Boat-D does have shields. Shields that only a very long, sustained volley from Ishimura's cannon could possibly bring down, as opposed to the one or two shots it would get off before a phaser volley disarmed it.

The fact the mining shuttles are armed with autocannon, possibly for defense against space debris, is irrelevant.

As to the TOS episode "Tomorrow Is Yesterday," the Enterprise wasn't attacking an Air Force base, it was snapped violently backward through time as a result of having to break away from the pull of a black "star."

She was vulnerable to the possible nuke armament on the F-104s(Falcon AAMs), because most of her systems had been knocked out by the encounter with the black star including the shields.

With the shields up, those nukes wouldn't have been as problematic.

How powerful ate space rocks that came from ripping out an enormous block of land from a planet? I'd imagine those space rocks to be fairly dangerous and I'd imagine a normal 155mmbl explosive shell probably wouldn't destroy enough of the rock quickly enough at those short ranges to neutralize the threat before it hits. Also, the Enterprise had her Shields lowered when they begin firing, as she was firing her tractor beam on one of the gravity tethers

Except the Love Boat-D doesn't need to lower shields to use her tractor beam. No ST ship has to lower shields to use their tractor beam.

And, why would the Love Boat-D use it's tractor on the gravity tether instead of its phasers and photorps, if it was that important to knock it out as quickly as possible?

Moreover, a 155mm shell would've created even more deadly fragments of rock, rather than destroying the entire mass outright.

The rest of your quote hares off into "does not compute" territory, and not worth addressing.

The ADS cannons were also specificalky aiming for the Naccelles which would probably be lighter armoured and shielded than the rest of the ship.

Does not compute.

Even if what you say is true, which, it isn't, least not according to any Canon source or the tech manuals, how would Ishimura know this? And, why would Love Boat-D have her shields down to allow this in the first place?

As for the transporters, let's just say that the exotic radiation from the Marker and all the energy from lifting up millions of tones of land mass with a couple lasers blocked the transporters from functioning safely.

Fair enough. Enough BS reasons exist in universe for the transporters not working to spec when needed, so I suppose this is as plausible a BS reason as any.

I mean, the transporters were disabled by monkeys building the ship in Star Trek V The Final Frontier,

More like bugs in the newly built Enterprise-A's systems.

and so they sent a shuttle with around 20 to 30 people inside to attack a settlement but they lost the battle and were taken as prisoners. Even Spock decided to turn traitor for some reason and he doesn't act on emotion so the decision to betray the Starfleet crew must have been for a serious reason.

1) Spock is half human.
2) You must've slept through that whole Sybok was Spock's paternal half brother exposition in the brig thing. That's okay, the movie sucked ass anyway, even if it was better than any of the TNG and Kelvin timeline movies.
3) And, Spock does act on emotion. He acted on emotion to save Pike in "The Menagerie," to save Kirk in " The Tholian Web," to save his command in "The Galieo Seven," to save his shipmates and cadets in The Wrath Of Khan, to save Kirk and McCoy in ST VI: The Undiscovered Country, and to try and reunite Vulcans and Romulans in TNG's "Unification."

[FancyDarcy]

Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong.

Dead Space mining shuttles are shuttles and have no shields. The Love Boat-D does have shields. Shields that only a very long, sustained volley from Ishimura's cannon could possibly bring down, as opposed to the one or two shots it would get off before a phaser volley disarmed it.

of course, but taking a glance at the shuttles makes you believe they were designed to be very tough and built to withstand impacting into Rocks and surviving. I mean, in the gameplay the shuttles are able to withstand dozens of rock impacts although this might be fake since according to the gameplay they are also able to survive dozens of ADS cannon hits.

Still, the other mining shuttle made it through the layer of Rocks Even though you are very likely to take a few whacks from the Rocks. Mining shuttles are also bound to be bumped around a few times, so it'd make sense for them to be a little tougher than your average shuttle.

The fact the mining shuttles are armed with autocannon, possibly for defense against space debris, is irrelevant.

How powerful ate space rocks that came from ripping out an enormous block of land from a planet? I'd imagine those space rocks to be fairly dangerous and I'd imagine a normal 155mmbl explosive shell probably wouldn't destroy enough of the rock quickly enough at those short ranges to neutralize the threat before it hits. Also, the Enterprise had her Shields lowered when they begin firing, as she was firing her tractor beam on one of the gravity tethers

Except the Love Boat-D doesn't need to lower shields to use her tractor beam. No ST ship has to lower shields to use their tractor beam.

And, why would the Love Boat-D use it's tractor on the gravity tether instead of its phasers and photorps, if it was that important to knock it out as quickly as possible?

Alright, let's say that one of the shuttles suffers a mechanical fault, and has to perform an emergency landing on the Enterprise at the same time she's tractor beaming the gravity tethers. This forces the captain to lower the Shields, which happens to be the exact moment the ADS cannons start blasting away at the Naccelles, which are tilted to the ADS decks favor thanks to the angle of attack the Enterprise is taking to tractor beam the tether.

The goal was not to destroy the gravity tethers, but to Lodge them back into place, since they had gotten loose from their joints. They didn't want to blow anything up.

Moreover, a 155mm shell would've created even more deadly fragments of rock, rather than destroying the entire mass outright.

The smaller chunks of Rocks would probably do less damage when they flew into the hull, though, wouldn't they? Even if they didn't, that means the ADS cannons must be all the more powerful.

Even if what you say is true, which, it isn't, least not according to any Canon source or the tech manuals, how would Ishimura know this? And, why would Love Boat-D have her shields down to allow this in the first place?

They didn't know that, they just fired at the closest and most obvious Target, since the Enterprise had her naccelles pointed upwards to the ADS deck.

[U.P. Cinnabar]

Alright, let's say that one of the shuttles suffers a mechanical fault, and has to perform an emergency landing on the Enterprise at the same time she's tractor beaming the gravity tethers. This forces the captain to lower the Shields, which happens to be the exact moment the ADS cannons start blasting away at the Naccelles, which are tilted to the ADS decks favor thanks to the angle of attack the Enterprise is taking to tractor beam the tether.

How many times now have you altered conditions to force the result you want?

No matter. Love Boat-D only has to lower it's aft shield, only when the shuttle is at the shield perimeter, then only briefly. Depending on how fast the ADS rounds are moving, and the range between Ishimura and the Love Boat-D, she could re-raise her aft shield quickly enough(once the shuttle's passed)or extend the port, starboard, ventral or dorsal shields to cover the gap before the projectiles reach the nacelles still fully protected by the dorsal shields(if Love Boat-D's is upside down relative to Ishimura's guns).

The smaller chunks of Rocks would probably do less damage when they flew into the hull, though, wouldn't they? Even if they didn't, that means the ADS cannons must be all the more powerful.

By what logic?!

And, yes, the smaller chunks of rock would be less damaging, in the same sense a 5.56mm round is less damaging than a 7.62mm round. Either will hurt, maim, possibly even kill you if they hit.

The smaller chunks of rock are still moving at velocities sufficient to damage or kill anything unlucky enough to be in their path, especially if it's unprotected, especially if multiple rocks hit.

[Batman]

I finally broke down and watched the video, and the ADS cannon rounds were so pathetically slow they could be reliably shot down by the manually controlled shuttle gun. They probably wouldn't even register as a threat for Starfleet shields above the shuttle level.

[Jub]

If anybody knows how large the gun canopy is for that ADS cannon we see in the video we can scale how powerful the shells have to be to vaporize those incoming asteroids. If we go with 10m, the lowest Mike's calculator goes to, they need about 19664.8 MJ of energy to be cratered and ~31,400,000 MJ of energy to vaporize; assuming they're Nickle-Iron rocks at whatever temperature Mike assumed for his calculations. We don't see total vaporization either as some hot fragments go flying away from each rock right after it gets blasted, so we might not need as much energy as his vaporization numbers may suggest. Lowering the energy requirements further. the rocks in the video are glowing orange to yellow hot (around 1000 degrees Celsius) so they've already absorbed around 18,500,000 MJ of energy to reach that state. I don't know how much this changes their cratering energy requirements, but it does make vaporizing them much easier.

If those same rocks are only 5m we can scale the numbers down by about 8 times, at 3 meters we can scale them back by 27 times, and at 1 meter we can scale them back by 125 times. That is assuming the numbers scale down the same way they scale up though I don't see why they wouldn't do so.

[tezunegari]

If anybody knows how large the gun canopy is for that ADS cannon we see in the video we can scale how powerful the shells have to be to vaporize those incoming asteroids.

The main canopy of the shuttle and the pilot chairs are very similar to the Kellion design so I'll assume the shuttles are similar in size but lacking the FTL booster the Kellion has. And the pilot chairs of the shuttle are in a similar position as those in the Kellion the PC would be around 175-185 cm tall.(the canopy strut is further down in the shuttle than on the Kellion)

Going with the 180 cm number (because it's nice and round)

The main character sits down in the gunner chair and his viewing angle lowers to about chest height... so the camera height is abot 120 - 130 cm while sitting in the gunner chair.

The chair is on a rail elevated from the ground. and there is some headspace.

Eyeballing that I would say 2.5 to 3 meters in diameter as the upper limit? 1.5 at the lower limit.

[Jub]

Okay, so that's like 1,160,000 MJ to vaporize from cold reduced by 685,000 MJ for being yellow hot. So around 500,000 MJ of energy to vaporize. Only 730 MJ to crater though at the size, again assuming the heat doesn't make cratering energies different.

I we assume 80% vaporization that's down to 243,000 MJ tp do what we see on that clip. It's well above a moderm 155 round but only 12% of a kiloton. Not a threat to the Enterprise with shields up and likely not a major threat even to her bare hull.

[U.P. Cinnabar]

58.078 tons per shot or 6% of a kiloton.

[Tribble]

Here's the likely chain of events given what we've discussed so far:

E-D shows up and sees Ishimura / colony.
E-D crew scans Ishimura, notes that it has weapons and is armed. Also will probably note unusual activity in the ship/colony.
Worf, being Worf, recommends raising shields (if the weapons are actually threatening enough to warrant doing so)
Picard says no (as usual), tries hailing
Ishimura at some point decides to lock weapons and fire
E-D detects that weapons are being locked and are getting ready to fire, shields are raised (if necessary).
E-D takes hit or two, Worf demands to return fire.
Picard eventually lets Worf get his way, (the length of time being proportional to how threatening the Ishimura is.) It's unlikely that the Ishimura can meaningfully damage the E-D, so Picard might let them fire a few more rounds before letting Worf disable the ship.
Picard hails them again, they'll probably answer.
Beaming an away team is considered dicey due to technobabble... so being a TNG-crew, they are probably still going to find a technobabble-solution to figure a way to beam in anyways rather than use a shuttle.
Meanwhile after some talking on the viewscreen another team beams down into the colony.
Both away teams do their scouting. They run into some people who tell them their sob stories.
They are eventually attacked. Due to the techno-babble-whats-it-field, there is a delay in beaming them back off just long enough to ensure a couple of goldshirts die.
Once the Away teams are back they explain what they did/saw, are checked out in Sickbay etc.
After this they try finding a cure, probably using technobabble
If that fails, there will be a meeting room discussion on whether or not to destroy the Necromorphs and/or the ship/colony to prevent any possible spread. Assuming that they fail odds are yes, given that Necromorphs are technically dead already and that the people they used to be wouldn't want to exsit in such a fashion.
The E-D crew beam any survivors to the ship, kill the Necromorphs (probably by blowing the ship and/or
colony) and call it a day... but not before Picard gives some closing lines to round out the episode scenario.

[U.P. Cinnabar]

Sounds about right.

[Vendetta]

E-D detects that weapons are being locked and are getting ready to fire, shields are raised (if necessary).
E-D takes hit or two, Worf demands to return fire.
Picard eventually lets Worf get his way, (the length of time being proportional to how threatening the Ishimura is.) It's unlikely that the Ishimura can meaningfully damage the E-D, so Picard might let them fire a few more rounds before letting Worf disable the ship.

It would be hard for the Enterprise to cleanly disable the ADS, since it's made up of several dozen mostly independent cannons to provide adequate coverage against incoming asteroids and debris.

So it's more likely that they'd raise shields and there would be an occasional report through the first half of the episode until the away team takes the ADS computer offline (with the central computer offline the cannons have to be fired manually).

But the worst result of the ADS cannons hitting the Enterprise is maybe an ensign falls over and gets a sprained ankle or something.