Dr who series 37 ep3 rosa parks

[madd0ct0r]

So. There was trepidation going into this, since there are many ways to stuff it up. No poll because mobile sucks and thoughts are more nuanced then a number.

I enjoyed it. 4/5.

4 because the final scene with doc "teaching" the others was poor exposition compared to the excellent team dynamic of rest of the episode.
Also 4 since the human? Racist villan was paperthin, although i expect we will see him again (or ray will realise he founded klux klux klan or something. You cant send a history rewriter further back and expect it to resolve itself)

- what happened to the timeline protecting gargoyles? Surely this was their job?


I really enjoyed Ray's historical awakening, kaz's "police drama whiteboard " planning style and her Mexican crisis. The older man, alan? Brought a sense of the consequences of inaction and empathy that the rest of the scoobies didnt (they were much more excited to be in the past bit seemed to see it more like a vr)

Stepping back, Stormcage is a nice subversion of stormfront, the internet racist echo chamber. Tying that into a prison identifier tattoo is interesting. Especially in the context of Kras's weak denials but smug pride of body count. As a methaphor for historical revisionism he is an interesting villian for the doctor.

[mr friendly guy]

Watching it now. So it seems the new sonic screwdriver has no problems with non electronic locks now. I remember the old series it was a problem and also in the new series, although the Doctor could theoretically just use it to burn through the lock, at presumably the cost of power and time and leaving a trail. Wonder when they will get the toy out.

[mr friendly guy]

Having a time travelling villain try to change history isn't a new thing. The classic episode The King's Demons had the Master trying to stop the signing of Magna Carta. So having another villain, albeit a human one try to change history isn't new and uses Who tropes nicely. Heck, having a white supremacist time travelling villain isn't new. Time Trax did it in the 90s (for those who remember the 90s ).

This episode seems ok. There was some nice bits with the Doctor figuring out the neural restrictor in the villain's brain and pissing him off and watching him impotently try to kill her. It just doesn't get me as interested as some of the episodes from Tenant's run or classic Who, but currently the series is watchable, although I wouldn't say I would get the Box set when it comes out.

On another note - white supremacists exist in the future of the Whoverse.

Most of the futuristic classic Who if anything, has human supremacists rather than white supremacist. A lot of classic Who episodes showed parts of the human empire (no doubt inspired from the British and some stories do focus on the decline of the British Earth empire). They tend to be human supremacists, rather than white supremacist.

Take the classic Who episode "The Mutants" from the Jon Pertwee era. The governor and his chief scientist (who just happened to have a German surname, sure its pure coincidental) were bigots against the natives. There were clearly Afrocaribeans on the staff (one of the guard was black and had the unfortunate name of Cotton), but it wasn't harked on by the futuristic humans.

We can also take examples from the EU. Take the novel "Original sin," where the 7th Doctor ends up in the 30th century. An interesting thing I note is that humans in this era genetically modify themselves, so some of them no longer look what would pass for human in the modern age. Yet discrimination occurs against aliens. IIRC the Doctors companion wonders why some "aliens" aren't discriminated against, and then the Doctor explains they are humans who have genetically modified themselves. Hey, no one said bigotry was smart.

The point is, from what we have seen in Classic Who, and some of the EU, futuristic humans if they are going to be racist, are human supremacists rather than White supremacists. It would be funny if futuristic human supremacists hate the futuristic white supremacists for not supporting some pan humanism.

[B5B7]

This is a didactic episode but that's okay, it's a powerful story.
I recognized the guy playing Krasko as the same actor who played Dr John Stevenson (Jack the Ripper) in the 'Time After Time' TV series.
The credits listed a South Africa crew.

[Bedlam]

I agree that the villain was a weak part of story, there was no look into his actual motivation he was just being evil for evil's sake. Given that future humanity is not really shown to be racist how did this one guy from the 70th century get the way he is?

Also the general history of the event doesn't fit real life, Rosa's actions weren't spontaneous they were planed to challenge the segregation laws of the time. She wasn't the first to protest but her story was lucky to be picked up by the press. If the bus hadn't been full that day or hadn't run then she would have just tried again the next day and if not her then someone else. I can see why they made the change to make add more tension though.

[Crazedwraith]

- what happened to the timeline protecting gargoyles? Surely this was their job?

You mean the Reaper's from Eccleston's series? Their method of protecting was eat anything on the planet and it was theorised they are usually suppressed by the Time Lords/Gallifrey which is back now and able to do that again.

It was a good episode. But more plot/meat behind Rosa Parks as guest star than last week I think but still some decent material for the guest stars, I noticed Ray didn't object to Graham calling him grandson this time through, if only to rub it in racist faces.

Also a bit of an attraction between Ray and Yaz? Still waiting for a really good Yaz episode.

Was the Stormcage guy able to blast people with the time zapper or not? It's not technically hurting people, does the chip stop that or not? The downside of the big core cast, is it's even more noticeable the more people you add that villians can never aim.

eta: Future guy recognises a TARDIS when he sees one. That's very interesting to me.

[Crazedwraith]

ghetto edit: and even in Eccleston's time, they were caused by outright paradoxes not just people trying alter time, otherwise they'd have dogged The Doctor's steps everywhere.

[The Romulan Republic]

On the whole, I liked it, though the song at the end did NOT appeal to me. But that's just personal musical taste.

There's a concern about episodes like this being too "preachy", but in this case, its a message that needs to be preached. Also, sci-fi has always done political commentary- just look at some of the classic Star Trek episodes. For Who, this again seems like a return to the very old days, going back to the show's roots. This is the closest thing to a pure historical/educational episode I've ever seen out of new Who. So in a sense, its taking the show right back to its origins. And I'm glad they're not shying away from taking on the current climate of bigotry in our society.

The other big pitfall is that introducing the show's characters into the historical events can end up diminishing the role of the actual historical figures. I think they largely avoided that, by a) having them only working to maintain history, rather than change it, and b) showing that Rosa was already a hero in the making before she ever met the Doctor.

At first I found it a little difficult to take the local racist bad guys seriously as a threat (assholes, yes, but not a threat), given the sorts of enemies the Doctor usually faces, but they built the tension pretty well at some moments later on. Its interesting how they depicted the struggle against racism- acknowledging that progress has been made, but also implying that its a fight that will never truly be won (given the presence of a white supremacist bad guy from the distant future trying to undo the achievements of the civil rights movement- an effective metaphor for real-world racists who try to turn the clock back). I also liked the idea of a bad guy who is trying to make subtle changes with large effects. Good old butterfly effect. I have a feeling we might see this villain again, or he may be foreshadowing a larger villain.

This Doctor is a lot less confrontational than some of the others. When dealing with the local bigots, she seemed at times like she was afraid of a confrontation with them, whereas I feel like, say, Ten or Eleven would have started speechifying or threatening. Maybe that's just my perception. But I kind of like that this Doctor isn't as... pompous. Don't get me wrong, I love a good bad ass Doctor speech, but sometimes it felt like Who, especially Moffat Who, was trying too hard to see clever or bad ass. This Doctor feels more like a real person, with real reactions. And I have a feeling that when she does do something really over the top bad ass, it will be all the more satisfying as a result. We saw a bit of that with the racist cop in the hotel, and when she smashed the villain's vortex manipulator. The spine is there- she's just less flashy and overt about it, I feel.

I honestly got a little teary-eyed at the end, and I laughed when Yaz said "It must be my Mexican blood." I'd be curious to know how actual people of colour felt about this episode's depiction of racism, though.

[The Romulan Republic]

This is probably the best attempt I've seen from Who to tackle the topic of racism directly, and it couldn't have come at a better time. As a work of narrative fiction, aside from its historical significance, it didn't impress me as one of the show's very strongest episodes, but it still might be the high-point for Who since Heaven Sent aired.

[Crazedwraith]

This Doctor is a lot less confrontational than some of the others. When dealing with the local bigots, she seemed at times like she was afraid of a confrontation with them, whereas I feel like, say, Ten or Eleven would have started speechifying or threatening. Maybe that's just my perception. But I kind of like that this Doctor isn't as... pompous. Don't get me wrong, I love a good bad ass Doctor speech, but sometimes it felt like Who, especially Moffat Who, was trying too hard to see clever or bad ass. This Doctor feels more like a real person, with real reactions. And I have a feeling that when she does do something really over the top bad ass, it will be all the more satisfying as a result. We saw a bit of that with the racist cop in the hotel, and when she smashed the villain's vortex manipulator. The spine is there- she's just less flashy and overt about it, I feel.

I know what you mean. I noticed it but forgot to put in my post.

The Doctor's MO has usually been swagger round like you own the place, bark instructions and people will fall in line. Thirteen is not like that, and perhaps it is because she's a woman. I don't know if Thirteen is supposed to realise it ("still not used to being called ma'am") but she's not exactly going to get people to back down by being big and threatening. I'm sure she could handle those guys with venusian aikido if needed (and i hope that wasn't a one-off for her) but she was only going to provoke their ire if she got in their faces.

They didn't explicitly address it but Thirteen should be getting a different default reaction to past Doctor's in many time frames.

[SpottedKitty]

Stepping back, Stormcage is a nice subversion of stormfront, the internet racist echo chamber.

Stormcage isn't a new plot element; it's where River Song was imprisoned after she killed the Doctor. Although given how often and how easily she waltzed (literally, at least once) in and out of the place, I have to doubt its reputation as "the most secure prison in the universe".

A nice though-provoking episode this week, I really liked it. The emphasis on the Doctor & co. keeping in the background and working to preserve the timeline, instead of the usual poking it with sticks to see what changes happen, made an interesting difference.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Another very solid episode for the new series, I like it.

I do happen to agree with one comment I saw on Facebook, that 1955 Montgomery, Alabama might be the scariest place the TARDIS has ever landed. If the entire story was fictional you'd think "oh what over the top racism" but...damn. And I have a horrible feeling that this might be the toned down version of what the place was really like.

EDIT: As for the villain not really having a clear purpose/backstory, I'm actually fine with that. Not every single thing needs to be explained, we get enough to know that "he's a time-travelling racist and mass murderer out on bail who wants to change history." Honestly? In an actual historical setting I think that's enough.

[Broomstick]

Yes, the racism depicted in "Rosa" was the toned down version, but there were references to the darker stuff - "sundown" towns, the Emmett Till murder (which occurred in August of 1955, just a few months before Rosa refused to stand up), people bombing churches... start digging into what Jim Crow and the segregated US South was and it will make you sick. The North was slightly better, but not by much and still quite ugly in many ways. Or perhaps it's better to say the North was not as overt about racism back in those days. Still plenty of it, though.

[Elheru Aran]

Yes, the racism depicted in "Rosa" was the toned down version, but there were references to the darker stuff - "sundown" towns, the Emmett Till murder (which occurred in August of 1955, just a few months before Rosa refused to stand up), people bombing churches... start digging into what Jim Crow and the segregated US South was and it will make you sick. The North was slightly better, but not by much and still quite ugly in many ways. Or perhaps it's better to say the North was not as overt about racism back in those days. Still plenty of it, though.

As in, a black person could probably go and work alongside white people in factories in Chicago... but he would probably get funny looks if he tried to take his lunch break too close to other white employees, or go to the restroom at the same time. Black and white people did not socialize (still largely don't, but at least the times are different in that they were more deliberately exclusive back then, I suppose?). There were distinct neighborhoods, in that if a black family tried to move to a nicer (inevitably) white neighborhood they'd probably get a lot of shit for it.

Basically it wasn't too unlike the South, except they just didn't codify their racism into law. But without the virulent heritage of centuries of slavery and legal oppression, at the very least, there was a bit less baggage in the North, and it was easier (somewhat) on a social level for them to accept desegregation.

...or at least that's my understanding of it, given I wasn't around back then.

[bilateralrope]

eta: Future guy recognises a TARDIS when he sees one. That's very interesting to me.

He probably talked to River at some point while they were both in Stormcage. Though that raises the question of why he didn't recognise that it was the Doctor's TARDIS.

[Batman]

Especially as the Doctor's is from available evidence the only one stuck looking like 1950s UK police box.

[bilateralrope]

I agree that the villain was a weak part of story, there was no look into his actual motivation he was just being evil for evil's sake. Given that future humanity is not really shown to be racist how did this one guy from the 70th century get the way he is?

All it takes is a small group of racists in their own echo chamber.

Also the general history of the event doesn't fit real life, Rosa's actions weren't spontaneous they were planed to challenge the segregation laws of the time. She wasn't the first to protest but her story was lucky to be picked up by the press. If the bus hadn't been full that day or hadn't run then she would have just tried again the next day and if not her then someone else. I can see why they made the change to make add more tension though.

I can't recall anything from the episode that contradicts her actions being planned. Just that the Doctor and companions think her actions were spontaneous.

That someone else would have made the same protest later is a flaw in the villians plan.

Was the Stormcage guy able to blast people with the time zapper or not? It's not technically hurting people, does the chip stop that or not?

Good question. One the episode doesn't answer. If you don't know about his chip, the time zapper would be pretty intimidating as it's removing chunks of the landscape. So it's still useful even if he isn't able to shoot people with it.

Probably depends on exactly where and when he is sending people. If he knows the destination is safe, the chip might not trigger.

[Eternal_Freedom]

With regards to Rosa's protest being planned, and that she would have kept trying or someone else would, that's true. BUT...from the Doctor's perspective (and her companions) it happened on that bus, on that date, with that driver, so that is the history they have to try and preserve.

They made a lot of mention of the Butterfly effect...so maybe a different day, different driver etc wouldn't have been picked up by the media for whatever reason. But it is history, so the Doctor will try and preserve it.

As for the protest being planned being a flaw int he villain's plan...he's a parolee mass murderer who has travelled back in time to support his own racist ideology. Did you really expect him to have a flawless plan? Or maybe he was counting on that very butterfly effect, that if he can change things here, then history is already different, and maybe it'll be easier to change another little thing later in the new timeline.

[madd0ct0r]

Or he is a pawn - one of a dozen butterflies sent back by a chessmaster

[Broomstick]

They made a lot of mention of the Butterfly effect...so maybe a different day, different driver etc wouldn't have been picked up by the media for whatever reason. But it is history, so the Doctor will try and preserve it.

Actual real life history records that at least one other person did the exact same thing - refused to give up her seat - that Rosa Parks did, before Rosa did it, and in fact it was NOT picked up. For whatever reason, that date and those people were a confluence of events that made a difference. Other people on other dates did not make a difference. By such slender threads hangs history.

[Esquire]

They made a lot of mention of the Butterfly effect...so maybe a different day, different driver etc wouldn't have been picked up by the media for whatever reason. But it is history, so the Doctor will try and preserve it.

Actual real life history records that at least one other person did the exact same thing - refused to give up her seat - that Rosa Parks did, before Rosa did it, and in fact it was NOT picked up. For whatever reason, that date and those people were a confluence of events that made a difference. Other people on other dates did not make a difference. By such slender threads hangs history.

That iterates, though - given that it was a planned protest by an organized group, we might just as well be celebrating [random name here] while noting that there were two preceding attempts. Specific details of history, sure, but the currents presumably run deeper.

[The Romulan Republic]

Or he is a pawn - one of a dozen butterflies sent back by a chessmaster

You know, "Random white supremacist is a pawn for a more powerful chessmaster" is a pretty good analogy for how the likes of Putin and the Koch brothers use the Alt. Reich to further their own wealth and power.

[Tsyroc]

I kind of saw Graham having to be directly involved coming, although I thought he was going to have to pretend to be the historical bus driver. What they did instead was better and tied nicely back into his history with his wife to give it a little emotional umpf for his character.

I can't say I enjoyed this episode but it was well done. I've watched the last two seasons of Timeless and it has dealt with racism in different historical periods quite a bit but this episode of Doctor Who did a better job of getting across how nasty it could be.

Mentioning Timeless has got me wondering if they plan on the Doctor running into some serious sexism while time traveling? I would imagine so.

[Lost Soal]

I kind of saw Graham having to be directly involved coming, although I thought he was going to have to pretend to be the historical bus driver. What they did instead was better and tied nicely back into his history with his wife to give it a little emotional umpf for his character.

I can't say I enjoyed this episode but it was well done. I've watched the last two seasons of Timeless and it has dealt with racism in different historical periods quite a bit but this episode of Doctor Who did a better job of getting across how nasty it could be.

Mentioning Timeless has got me wondering if they plan on the Doctor running into some serious sexism while time traveling? I would imagine so.

There was one exchange in a season trailer I saw,
"why are you talking to her as if she's in charge?"
"Because she is."
That could be an example or just the generic way the Doctor has been treated in the past.

[The Romulan Republic]

I kind of saw Graham having to be directly involved coming, although I thought he was going to have to pretend to be the historical bus driver. What they did instead was better and tied nicely back into his history with his wife to give it a little emotional umpf for his character.

I can't say I enjoyed this episode but it was well done. I've watched the last two seasons of Timeless and it has dealt with racism in different historical periods quite a bit but this episode of Doctor Who did a better job of getting across how nasty it could be.

Mentioning Timeless has got me wondering if they plan on the Doctor running into some serious sexism while time traveling? I would imagine so.

They almost have to, I think. The Doctor may still be the same old Doctor in a different body (depending on how you interpret the effects of regeneration), but there are people who will see her very differently, and treat her differently, as a result. Ignoring that will quickly become white-washing and sugar-coating..

I'll sort of give them a pass on not doing it in this episode, since they clearly wanted the focus to be on Rosa Parks and the civil rights movement, but the Doctor should have been getting some unpleasant reactions as a woman too, and a really superb episode would have found a way to acknowledge that, and tie it into the larger themes.

Edit: That said, the Doctor has tended to just walk into any time or place and just be the Doctor. Really, his odd appearance and mannerisms should be drawing negative reactions from any pre-20th. Century society he visits, but the show usually glosses over it.