More proof of the failure of American eduction.

LT.Hit-Man · Post by **LT.Hit-Man** » 2003-03-30 11:25pm

This post is for the birds

Perinquus · Post by **Perinquus** » 2003-03-30 11:31pm

LT.Hit-Man wrote:This post is for the birds

My, that was a useful contribution.

LT.Hit-Man · Post by **LT.Hit-Man** » 2003-03-30 11:36pm

Perinquus wrote:
LT.Hit-Man wrote:This post is for the birds

My, that was a useful contribution.

You welcome, it never hurts to help unless you are giving blood or organs
LOL

XPViking · Post by **XPViking** » 2003-03-30 11:44pm

Then you aren't helping Lt. Hit-Man.

XPViking

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2003-03-31 12:43am

Perinquus wrote:People used to graduate from public high school with good math skills, good command of English grammar, and good knowledge of American and at least Western history. None of this is true anymore. And decades ago, when the schools worked better, America was even less socialist than it is now. The fact is that an American high school graduate from when Herbert Hoover was president had better basic math skills, better command of his native language, and knew more of American history up to his time than high school graduates today know.

I didn't quote the part, but I was told that some years ago the SAT test was significantly altered.

What sort of electives did they have in HS in Hoover's day? Did math/english/history consume most of the day, or did they make up a minority of the hours spent at school? As it is, math, history, and English are less than half of my (block scheduled) day.

I think a big problem is motivation. Nobody at high school (save some people) really gives a shit. The worst part is, it's a vicious cycle. The underachievers, for some reason or another, don't learn as much. So they're cycled into classrooms with other underachievers, and they learn even less there because the material is presented in a tortuous fashion, with no stimulation at all. The teachers tend to be uninspired and boring. The same is true in the average classes; there aren't too many people who graduate from the regular English class to the advanced English class once you're past freshman year, and from what I've heard regular English at my school is rather dull and uninspired.

Contrast with the AP classes, where you have teachers that are witty, creative, stimulating, who make the class a pleasure to attend. Teachers that are much looser and more comfortable with their students, creating a more friendly atmosphere.

There are other problems that need to be addressed, too. But I bet those could be alleviated with more parental involvement.

LT.Hit-Man · Post by **LT.Hit-Man** » 2003-03-31 12:49am

XPViking wrote:Then you aren't helping Lt. Hit-Man.

XPViking

Realy?
Damm
*Rips Sadamm's spleen and offers it to XPViking*
How about now?

Post by **Zaia** » 2003-03-31 01:54am

I'm sorry, how do any of you know that the author of that article was American? How do you know that the person who penned those words actually went through the entire American education system? Why do you assume that the writer went to public school--isn't it possible this person is a Catholic school graduate? Or perhaps a Montessori grad? Or--you never know--maybe the author was home-schooled!

WHO THE FUCK KNOWS.

My point is, unless you know who wrote the article personally, you don't know what kind of education that person received. Don't any of you bitch and complain about generalizations you don't even know are applicable.

Feel free to continue to slander public education in the U.S. if you like, but I myself am a product of it and I am more than satisfied with the education I received as a student. I am as proud of that fact as I am of the education I am passing along to my students.

Perinquus · Post by **Perinquus** » 2003-03-31 02:35am

Not every public school in the U.S. is a bad one. Locally, there are good ones right near where I live in Virginia Beach. But Norfolk, Portsmouth, Chesapeake all have varying degrees of bad. I went to private school after my mother determined that my older sister got a crappy education. My 8th grade American history text was the 11th grade text in the Norfolk public schools.

It's not slander if it's true. The fact is that while there are good public schools to be found in the United States, our public school system overall is failing our students miserably, and we will be paying for it for a long, long time to come.

Oh, and BTW, since this article is culled from an American paper, it's highly probably that the reporter who wrote it is American.

Lord_Xerxes · Post by **Lord_Xerxes** » 2003-03-31 02:56am

Wow. I really didn't think this thread was going to be anything like this...

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-03-31 03:43am

Howedar wrote:I dare say that a single grammatical error is not indicative of a nationwide failure in edumacation.

Dare I say that for the one lacking in morals it's as good a pretense as any for genocide.

Perinquus · Post by **Perinquus** » 2003-03-31 04:29am

His Divine Shadow wrote:
Howedar wrote:I dare say that a single grammatical error is not indicative of a nationwide failure in edumacation.
Dare I say that for the one lacking in morals it's as good a pretense as any for genocide.

Okay, you just lost me. Where exactly does the subject of genocide enter into this?

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-03-31 04:37am

Perinquus wrote:Okay, you just lost me. Where exactly does the subject of genocide enter into this?

Oh please, genocide, it's the question and answer to everything.
Like this:

Man 1: Genocide?
Man 2: Genocide.
Man 1: Genocide?
Man 1: Genocide.
Man 1: Really?

Perinquus · Post by **Perinquus** » 2003-03-31 06:32am

The answer to everything huh?

I can picture it now:

"Damn, lost my frigging comb again. Oh well, nothing for it but to kill three or four million people."

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-03-31 06:40am

Perinquus wrote:The answer to everything huh?

I can picture it now:

"Damn, lost my frigging comb again. Oh well, nothing for it but to kill three or four million people."

Now you're getting it.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2003-03-31 07:03am

His Divine Shadow wrote:
Perinquus wrote:The answer to everything huh?

I can picture it now:

"Damn, lost my frigging comb again. Oh well, nothing for it but to kill three or four million people."
Now you're getting it.

Completely off topic: Last month there was a young kid at our hospital
whose first name was Genocide.

That's right, that was the kid's
name.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-03-31 07:27am

Tsk Tsk...

Post by **Zaia** » 2003-03-31 11:38am

Perinquus wrote:It's not slander if it's true. The fact is that while there are good public schools to be found in the United States, our public school system overall is failing our students miserably, and we will be paying for it for a long, long time to come.

That may be, but does that make it acceptable to take ONE mistake from a writer you are STILL assuming has gone through the American education system and say that this why many public schools suck when we don't have any idea where this person got his/her education?

Oh, and BTW, since this article is culled from an American paper, it's highly probably that the reporter who wrote it is American.

It is likely, yes, but not in any way definite. Oakland is a fairly large city, and I think it's rather narrow thinking to jump to the conclusion that your writer must be a product of the American education system. You have no way of knowing whether or not the writer was raised in the U.S., let alone whether the author went to public school or not. Don't you see the problem of essentially saying "American public school suck--just look at this article!" and not even knowing if what you're presenting to justify your claim truly backs it up?!

I'm just saying you need to be sure of the kind of supporting evidence you use before using it. Assumptions don't make very strong foundations in discussions like this.

Perinquus · Post by **Perinquus** » 2003-03-31 05:32pm

Zaia wrote: That may be, but does that make it acceptable to take ONE mistake from a writer you are STILL assuming has gone through the American education system and say that this why many public schools suck when we don't have any idea where this person got his/her education?

It is likely, yes, but not in any way definite. Oakland is a fairly large city, and I think it's rather narrow thinking to jump to the conclusion that your writer must be a product of the American education system. You have no way of knowing whether or not the writer was raised in the U.S., let alone whether the author went to public school or not. Don't you see the problem of essentially saying "American public school suck--just look at this article!" and not even knowing if what you're presenting to justify your claim truly backs it up?!

I'm just saying you need to be sure of the kind of supporting evidence you use before using it. Assumptions don't make very strong foundations in discussions like this.

It's not as though there is any dearth of supporting evidence here for the assertion that our public school system is in serious need of repair, and has been for some time. I've said as much in other posts on this board before this, and I've reiterated the point here several times. And while it may be possible the reporter is foreign, or was educated outside the public school system, the public schools are still the odds on favorite. And wherever the reporter got his/her education, there is no excuse for a professional writer being ignorant of the correct irregular verb form here.

Malecoda · Post by **Malecoda** » 2003-04-02 06:14pm

I think you all expect too much from the papers. Has anyone in here ever known a reporter or editor, let alone worked for a paper? Yeah, it's sad if the paper has a PATTERN, but come on. Those places are busy, and GE produces a shitty stove every once in a while and sometimes airplane parts crack. This does sound hysterical. Plenty of other stuff to get worked up about, like the dissemination of the disinformation that we've been vacuuming up the Iraqis with tactical nukes.

Perinquus · Post by **Perinquus** » 2003-04-02 06:36pm

Malecoda wrote:I think you all expect too much from the papers. Has anyone in here ever known a reporter or editor, let alone worked for a paper? Yeah, it's sad if the paper has a PATTERN, but come on. Those places are busy, and GE produces a shitty stove every once in a while and sometimes airplane parts crack. This does sound hysterical. Plenty of other stuff to get worked up about, like the dissemination of the disinformation that we've been vacuuming up the Iraqis with tactical nukes.

And who has disseminated any such information?

And by the way, have you ever read any Associated Press wire reports? I routinely find grammatical errors in them, this is just a more egregious example. There IS a pattern. Reuters is noticeably better in this regard. Reuters is also a British news service.