Students increasingly turn to prostitution to pay for university, risk punishment from universities.

[The Romulan Republic]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/educ ... 14186.html

Universities must stop ignoring the plight of a growing number of students turning to sex work and should start offering non-judgemental support, campaigners demand.

Students and experts have accused institutions of “simply burying their heads in the sand” over the issue, despite the increasing amount of young people who are turning to sex work to fund university.

Rising living costs, higher student fees and access to online apps which remove traditional barriers into sex work have all been cited as reasons they are turning to prostitution during their studies.

But despite the evidence, many universities are “turning a blind eye”, and in some cases actively blocking groups trying to support students involved in sex work.

In one case a student, who was forced to turn to sex work, was evicted from her home and threatened with expulsion by her university.

The English Collective of Prostitutes (ECP), a campaigning group which supports the decriminalisation of prostitution, told The Independent the number of students who have reached out to the organisation about having to turn to sex work has risen in the past year.

Laura Watson, spokesperson for the ECP, said serious financial hardship and cost pressures is the driving reason for rising sex work on campus.

“We have found that people are mostly working for everyday needs. But some people are definitely working to pay off the tuition fees,” she said.

The rest of the article goes into further detail, but the short version is: living expenses and tuition for students in the UK are so high that more and more are turning to prostitution, for which they are then libel to be punished by the universities that are bleeding them dry.

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you Capitalism.

[K. A. Pital]

Glorious. Sell your body for your future. Peak capitalism has truly arrived.

But is that not what the Old Powers wanted? They have defeated everyone who thought otherwise, since the 1800s and until present day.

[Broomstick]

I often have the feeling that the TPTB don't actually want students to pay off their debts, they want to be able to skim the earnings of these folks forever... then blame them for not getting ahead.

Much as I would like to return to school, because I do like learning things, the ROI is just not there anymore.

[K. A. Pital]

In many places, such a thing as “student debt” did not even exist. In some, it still does not.

Fuck private education.

[aerius]

I often have the feeling that the TPTB don't actually want students to pay off their debts, they want to be able to skim the earnings of these folks forever... then blame them for not getting ahead.

Your feeling isn't wrong, that's the way the system is designed in the US. There's a reason why student loans are non-dischargeable in bankruptcy, and not only that, they can attach them to your parents & family as well. You basically have a racketeering act where the schools, banks, and other financial companies who are making and handling loans collude and dream up new ways of jacking up the costs and extracting every last penny of earnings from the students. They've essentially said "well, this person will make an extra $XYZ of income over his life if he takes this college program, we're going to set the costs & loan conditions such that we get every last one of those dollars back".

There's a reason US education costs are going up at something like 4 times the rate of inflation. Up here in Canada, the tuition for the University program I was in actually costs LESS in inflation adjusted dollars than it did 20 years ago when I took it.

[madd0ct0r]

I often have the feeling that the TPTB don't actually want students to pay off their debts, they want to be able to skim the earnings of these folks forever... then blame them for not getting ahead.

Your feeling isn't wrong, that's the way the system is designed in the US. There's a reason why student loans are non-dischargeable in bankruptcy, and not only that, they can attach them to your parents & family as well. You basically have a racketeering act where the schools, banks, and other financial companies who are making and handling loans collude and dream up new ways of jacking up the costs and extracting every last penny of earnings from the students. They've essentially said "well, this person will make an extra $XYZ of income over his life if he takes this college program, we're going to set the costs & loan conditions such that we get every last one of those dollars back".

There's a reason US education costs are going up at something like 4 times the rate of inflation. Up here in Canada, the tuition for the University program I was in actually costs LESS in inflation adjusted dollars than it did 20 years ago when I took it.

Indeed. The uk offuce for national statistics recently moved student loans back onto government debt since it is clear many of them will never be paid off before they age out.

In reality, the government fronts the money and the loans are a "graduate tax". Doing that formally would be better i think, since so many of us are going to need multiple degrees over the years now.

[Elfdart]

The libertine in me says it's no big deal, other than the self-righteous Puritans attacking these girls. A good friend of mine decided to celebrate his divorce/mid-life crisis by seeing just how many college chicks he could "help with tuition". As far as I know it was informal: they jumped his middle-aged bones and he gave them gifts, bought them stuff and paid bills for them. But even if it was strictly cash for services rendered, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

What I DO have a problem with is the student loan racket, which is really just a credit card scam, only you can never settle an out-of-control debt with student loans. I'm also disturbed to see Britain copying something awful from the US.

[The Romulan Republic]

America's biggest export these days is political douchbaggery.

[K. A. Pital]

America's biggest export these days is political douchbaggery.

America has been exporting this poisonous shit since Reagan days, that about right.

[Broomstick]

The libertine in me says it's no big deal, other than the self-righteous Puritans attacking these girls.

It's one thing if the women (or men, because there's some of that, too) genuinely choose to do that work of their own free will.

It's another thing entirely when they feel compelled to do that sort of work in order to survive - coerced sex is not good, even if the coercion comes from financial pressures rather than the other persons(s) involved.

[Jub]

It's one thing if the women (or men, because there's some of that, too) genuinely choose to do that work of their own free will.

It's another thing entirely when they feel compelled to do that sort of work in order to survive - coerced sex is not good, even if the coercion comes from financial pressures rather than the other persons(s) involved.

How is coercion into sex work any different than coercion into any other sort of work? Sex isn't some holy sacred thing even though America treats it that way. Is selling sex any more or less moral than selling one's body and lungs to a coal mine?

Ask any sex worker why they do it and the answers will sound a hell of a lot like the reason the rest of us work a more mundane job.

[Broomstick]

It's one thing if the women (or men, because there's some of that, too) genuinely choose to do that work of their own free will.

It's another thing entirely when they feel compelled to do that sort of work in order to survive - coerced sex is not good, even if the coercion comes from financial pressures rather than the other persons(s) involved.

How is coercion into sex work any different than coercion into any other sort of work? Sex isn't some holy sacred thing even though America treats it that way. Is selling sex any more or less moral than selling one's body and lungs to a coal mine?

Most jobs do not come with a risk of STD's or pregnancy, just to start.

Some people can do casual sex, for some there's nothing casual about it.

Not every job is suited to every person. Currently, half my job at work is balancing the books for the store. I don't have a problem with it. I have a half dozen coworkers who tried doing the job and couldn't stand it, four of which were, apparently, reduced to actual crying and sobbing over it. On the other hand, I probably wouldn't last half a day at the service/returns desk without punching someone in the teeth which, needless to say, would get me fired. Yet there are people who would rather have that job than my job. Likewise, there are people who have no problem with casual sex. For me, personally, it would probably be horribly traumatic (which is why, no matter how hard times have been for me financially, I have never considered it despite knowing people who were quite successful at it).

So yes, we are all "coerced" into work but as a general rule you have choices. You can find the work that complements you.

The other problem is that sex work STILL carries a stigma in our society. If it becomes known you are or have been a whore at any point in your life you will have it held against you in various areas. Forget a job in politics, for example. Or being trusted with other peoples' children, or a teacher of young children. Forget getting a security clearance. God forbid you are ever involved in a custody dispute, you WILL lose your children. You will not be able to adopt.

You mention coal miners. Yep, they pay a steep price - but they're still seen as good, hardworking sorts. Their illnesses are a tragedy. They can even get compensation (not as easily as they should).

Sex workers? If they're lucky, they won't be arrested and prosecuted. They get HIV or herpes or syphilis? They deserve it, the whores, right? Unwanted pregnancy as an occupational hazard? Tough shit, hope you have money for an abortion IF you can get to provider before a time limit kicks in and, oh yes, you might have the kid taken away because you're an unfit mother in the eyes of many.

If it's a man engaged in sex work - well, homosexuals still have bias to deal with, and adding prostitution into it is not going to make the guy more acceptable.

Let's say a young person in the UK decides to pursue sex work to pay for their higher education. If this is a known fact they will have great difficulty getting a visa to the US, and will likely never be able to move here and become a citizen because they will be seen as morally unfit. Granted not everyone wants to move to the US, but for someone who does want that it could be a problem. Use sex-for-profit to fund your education and good luck if you have any reason to travel to, say, Saudi Arabia or many African nations where prostitution merits the death penalty. For those nations, even worse if you're a male prostitute because they execute homosexuals, too. Again, it may not matter for many but for some it would be a disastrous choice.

There are still steep consequences to that career choice and will be for at least another generation.

Ask any sex worker why they do it and the answers will sound a hell of a lot like the reason the rest of us work a more mundane job.

I've actually met a fair number of sex workers. While there are some who do it because it's a job, I've also met other ones who got into it because they were, essentially, sold while underage to people who like to fuck kids. I've met sex workers who fucked people because that's how they supported their drug habit. I've met sex workers who essentially had no other job skills and resorted to it out of desperation but they didn't in any way like it. I did meet one who prostituted himself to pay for his doctorate, he seemed pretty OK all around but seemed to be the exception.

Let me be clear - I, personally, would prefer to see sex work legalized, regulated, and the workers protected. Unfortunately, I don't live in a society that agrees with that stance. So, while I am all for personal choice I think it needs to be an informed choice. The young people choosing this route need to know the consequences of that career choice.

[FireNexus]

How is coercion into sex work any different than coercion into any other sort of work? Sex isn't some holy sacred thing even though America treats it that way. Is selling sex any more or less moral than selling one's body and lungs to a coal mine?

Sex isn’t holy or sacred, but there is a huge emotional tieup involved in it. Coercion into sex work being fundamentally more psychologically harmful than coercion into even shitty and dangerous jobs is reasonable, no Calvinism required.

Most jobs do not come with a risk of STD's or pregnancy, just to start.

I think this is a weird tack. A grease burn from a fryer is way worse than the clap and black lung or silicosis is worse than HIV. I think the fact that sex work comes with a seriously elevated risk of being raped or murdered is probably a stronger argument

Some people can do casual sex, for some there's nothing casual about it.

This is a very good argument. I think Jub’s point is the kind of misapplication of sexual liberation ideology that leads to people still today saying Bill Clinton’s behavior was consensual sex between adults and that any objection to it is being pwned by propaganda or a prude.

There is a strong trend to pretend that all objections to sex adjacent misbehavior or cultural problems are just prudishness, and it’s fairy clear now that the reason for this is that a lot of cultural gatekeepers have been somewhat sexually violent or inappropriate and their biases shape how we’ve broached this subject.

[Broomstick]

How is coercion into sex work any different than coercion into any other sort of work? Sex isn't some holy sacred thing even though America treats it that way. Is selling sex any more or less moral than selling one's body and lungs to a coal mine?

Sex isn’t holy or sacred, but there is a huge emotional tieup involved in it. Coercion into sex work being fundamentally more psychologically harmful than coercion into even shitty and dangerous jobs is reasonable, no Calvinism required.

Or, as I like to put it, if you aren't as equally free to say "no" as to say "yes" then it's questionable how voluntary the sex is - whether the coercion comes from a fist in your face or a need to pay the bills and no other option.

Most jobs do not come with a risk of STD's or pregnancy, just to start.

I think this is a weird tack. A grease burn from a fryer is way worse than th clap and black lung or silicosis is worse than HIV. I think the fact that sex work comes with a seriously elevated risk of being raped or murdered is probably a stronger argument

Have to remember I was young and dating when HIV was a six-month death sentence. I keep forgetting that many these days consider it "merely" a serious chronic condition.

True about the rape and murder risk.

Some people can do casual sex, for some there's nothing casual about it.

This is a very good argument. I think Jub’s point is the kind of misapplication of sexual liberation ideology that leads to people still today saying Bill Clinton’s behavior was consensual sex between adults and that any objection to it is being pwned by propaganda or a prude.

There is a strong trend to pretend that all objections to sex adjacent misbehavior or cultural problems are just prudishness, and it’s fairy clear now that the reason for this is that a lot of cultural gatekeepers have been somewhat sexually violent or inappropriate and their biases shape how we’ve broached this subject.

^ This.

[Jub]

Most jobs do not come with a risk of STD's or pregnancy, just to start.

Take birth control, start PrEP, and make your clients use a barrier. You'll never be 100% safe, but you're not 100% safe at any job.

Some people can do casual sex, for some there's nothing casual about it.

Not every job is suited to every person. Currently, half my job at work is balancing the books for the store. I don't have a problem with it. I have a half dozen coworkers who tried doing the job and couldn't stand it, four of which were, apparently, reduced to actual crying and sobbing over it. On the other hand, I probably wouldn't last half a day at the service/returns desk without punching someone in the teeth which, needless to say, would get me fired. Yet there are people who would rather have that job than my job. Likewise, there are people who have no problem with casual sex. For me, personally, it would probably be horribly traumatic (which is why, no matter how hard times have been for me financially, I have never considered it despite knowing people who were quite successful at it).

That's not an argument against sex work though. That's an argument against people being forced into the workforce at all.

So yes, we are all "coerced" into work but as a general rule you have choices. You can find the work that complements you.

I feel like this is pretty wrong these days. You don't pick which job takes you and unless you're educated with good connections, not a given even for these university students, it's not difficult to end up taking a job that you're unsuited for just because it's that or not being able to pay bills or eat.

The other problem is that sex work STILL carries a stigma in our society. If it becomes known you are or have been a whore at any point in your life you will have it held against you in various areas. Forget a job in politics, for example. Or being trusted with other peoples' children, or a teacher of young children. Forget getting a security clearance. God forbid you are ever involved in a custody dispute, you WILL lose your children. You will not be able to adopt.

That's an issue, but one which society should fix. It doesn't say anything about the sex workers themselves.

I snipped the rest because while it's true, that's an issue more with certain companies being barbaric (I'll include the US in that lot as well) and has nothing to do with the work itself.

I've actually met a fair number of sex workers. While there are some who do it because it's a job, I've also met other ones who got into it because they were, essentially, sold while underage to people who like to fuck kids. I've met sex workers who fucked people because that's how they supported their drug habit. I've met sex workers who essentially had no other job skills and resorted to it out of desperation but they didn't in any way like it. I did meet one who prostituted himself to pay for his doctorate, he seemed pretty OK all around but seemed to be the exception.

These university kids aren't in the sex trafficking group and aren't likely to be doing it to fuel a serious drug habit, so the two worst groups are out. These university students are most likely to see what they do as a job with various upsides and downsides. If they're smart they won't be street walking; though recent government legislation has made it harder to use the internet as a screening tool as many of those sites were shut down due to anti-human trafficking laws. Plus, I wonder how many are actually prostitutes and how many are making money camming, identified as sex workers, and got lumped into the prostitute bin.

I should also be clear that I know a fair few sex workers myself, have had a short relationship with one, and could probably take a poll of at least half a dozen people IRL with easily four times that number online. The ones I know all do it by choice and, if they haven't done so already, want to leave their day jobs to focus on sex work but aren't making enough money via porn or camming to make that happen at the moment. Some book sessions with clients as pro-dommes, some do solo cam work, most do porn with partners in addition to these other more solo activities. They're safe, tested, and taking PrEP for the HIV risk while using barriers, birth control, and networked lists with client details for the other risks.

Sex work isn't just hanging out on the corner or working a pole these days.

Let me be clear - I, personally, would prefer to see sex work legalized, regulated, and the workers protected. Unfortunately, I don't live in a society that agrees with that stance. So, while I am all for personal choice I think it needs to be an informed choice. The young people choosing this route need to know the consequences of that career choice.

Not everywhere is the US. Just north of the border, we're not perfect about sex work but escorts and dominatrixes are allowed to work freely. We mostly crackdown on street corner works and their pimps because those are most likely to be the ones at risk in their line of work. If you set up or work with a brothel or go fully online your generally just fine as long as you're smart and pay your taxes.

[Broomstick]

Yes, location has an impact. And for your information, there is one area of the US where brothels are fully legal. The legality of sex work varies immensely from place to place in the US.

I also think you are way overconfident in the efficacy of birth control, PrEP, and barriers - all of them have failure rates, and the longer you use them the more likely odds are to catch up with you. It's a manageable risk, but it's still a risk.

Whining that anyone who doesn't share your enlightened attitude is a prude or barbarian doesn't cut it. As I said, for many the potential restrictions are non-existent, but people should nonetheless be aware that there are still many places in the world where sex work is illegal, and some where it is a capital crime. Hell, the US is far from the worst of it - you live on the same planet with places like Saudi Arabia, they aren't going away because you disapprove of them.

That's an issue, but one which society should fix. It doesn't say anything about the sex workers themselves.

You have that backward. Because so many in society DO think it says something about sex workers (mostly, a lack of morals) it continues to be an issue.

[aerius]

What I DO have a problem with is the student loan racket, which is really just a credit card scam, only you can never settle an out-of-control debt with student loans. I'm also disturbed to see Britain copying something awful from the US.

Yup, that's the problem. Back in my day and even today where I live, students could pay for their education by working at various entry level jobs for not much more than minimum wage. You can pay your tuition by flipping burgers on summers and weekends if you had to.

This isn't true in the US, higher education is unaffordable unless
a) your family is filthy rich
b) you've got a massive scholarship
c) you've taken out a loan that makes you a debt slave for the next 50 years
d) you're dealing drugs or whoring yourself out

The system is completely broken and needs to be burned to the ground.

[Broomstick]

Thirty five years ago the amount you could borrow for college in the US was much more limited. Minimum wage went a lot farther. I paid off my student loans without much problem and got on with my life. Younger folks these days...? Not so much.

[Raw Shark]

Huh. Y'know, this honestly never occurred to me... I could actually further my education, doing what I love...

[Jub]

Yes, location has an impact. And for your information, there is one area of the US where brothels are fully legal. The legality of sex work varies immensely from place to place in the US.

Yes, I'm aware of Nevada's stance on prostitution.

I also think you are way overconfident in the efficacy of birth control, PrEP, and barriers - all of them have failure rates, and the longer you use them the more likely odds are to catch up with you. It's a manageable risk, but it's still a risk.

As is any job where injury or disease can occur. How is this any different from roofing, mining, nursing, working in a kitchen etc?

Whining that anyone who doesn't share your enlightened attitude is a prude or barbarian doesn't cut it. As I said, for many the potential restrictions are non-existent, but people should nonetheless be aware that there are still many places in the world where sex work is illegal, and some where it is a capital crime. Hell, the US is far from the worst of it - you live on the same planet with places like Saudi Arabia, they aren't going away because you disapprove of them.

I mean, I already vote for as liberal a government as I'm able and do my best to spread awareness for causes I support within my limited social media reach. I don't have the resources or skills to do more for the causes I believe in but I don't spend all my days just laughing at how stupid other countries are.

As far as those other places, they don't have nearly the same reach as the US does. They can't readily lean on other nations with the aim of forcing them to change their laws. They don't host a majority of internet servers and thus control much of the world's access to information. I target the US because your nation has positioned itself to be that target.

You have that backward. Because so many in society DO think it says something about sex workers (mostly, a lack of morals) it continues to be an issue.

Most people are mouth breathing idiots who vote against their own interests, why shouldn't I call them out for being wrongheaded prudes?

[Broomstick]

I also think you are way overconfident in the efficacy of birth control, PrEP, and barriers - all of them have failure rates, and the longer you use them the more likely odds are to catch up with you. It's a manageable risk, but it's still a risk.

As is any job where injury or disease can occur. How is this any different from roofing, mining, nursing, working in a kitchen etc?

None of the risks in those professions can result in another human being whose needs will interfere with the work of their parent(s) and cause a great deal of financial cost over the ensuing next couple of decades.

Never claimed other professions have no risks - some are even riskier than sex work in regards to the physical risk to the worker.

Most people are mouth breathing idiots who vote against their own interests, why shouldn't I call them out for being wrongheaded prudes?

You can call them out all you want - free speech and all that - but it doesn't change the fact that they outnumber us and as a result have much more say in setting policy and making laws, not to mention the unwritten social rules.

[AniThyng]

None of the risks in those professions can result in another human being whose needs will interfere with the work of their parent(s) and cause a great deal of financial cost over the ensuing next couple of decades.

I'm betting the response to that is an abortion before a human being results.

[Civil War Man]

None of the risks in those professions can result in another human being whose needs will interfere with the work of their parent(s) and cause a great deal of financial cost over the ensuing next couple of decades.

I'm betting the response to that is an abortion before a human being results.

Except for all of the areas of the US where obtaining an abortion has been made functionally impossible, so you'd only be able to get one if you are wealthy enough to travel somewhere without those restrictions. And considering that the OP is about people feeling compelled into prostitution out of financial necessity, we can be pretty confident that there is no intersection between them and people with enough disposable income to travel across the country to get an abortion whenever they need one.

[Elfdart]

Yup, that's the problem. Back in my day and even today where I live, students could pay for their education by working at various entry level jobs for not much more than minimum wage. You can pay your tuition by flipping burgers on summers and weekends if you had to.

This isn't true in the US, higher education is unaffordable unless
a) your family is filthy rich
b) you've got a massive scholarship
c) you've taken out a loan that makes you a debt slave for the next 50 years
d) you're dealing drugs or whoring yourself out

The system is completely broken and needs to be burned to the ground.

I don't think the system is "broken" at all -it's doing exactly what the folks in charge of educational policy want it to do: It's making it difficult for members of the Great Unwashed to become doctors, engineers and lawyers. The GI Bill (and more importantly, federal aid to education for others normally left out) was arguably FDR's greatest domestic achievement, providing free or cheap education to veterans and others so they could have real jobs. Not only did this create the American Middle Class, it also nipped in the bud any movement to recruit vast numbers of disgruntled, unemployed war veterans for paramilitary activities, whether in black shirts or white hoods. So naturally, the right-wingers in this loony bin of a country went to great lengths to tear it up.

To add to what Broomstick wrote earlier to Jub, forget about sex workers losing jobs, not being able to adopt and being mistreated in numerous other ways. Five years ago, there was a case in my area where a public school teacher was fired for posing nude for Playboy when she was a college student in order to (SURPRISE!) pay her way through school. Now only the most puritanical sort of twit would consider a set of photos about as racy as what you see in Marie Claire to be pornography, let alone sex work but sure enough a qualified and well-regarded school teacher lost her job. Keep in mind that porn and men's magazines are perfectly legal, while prostitution is not. So any of these students whose mugshot ends up online is screwed for life. If they take out loans they can't repay, they're screwed. If they resort to "escorting" to pay their way, they're also marked for life.

[Jub]

None of the risks in those professions can result in another human being whose needs will interfere with the work of their parent(s) and cause a great deal of financial cost over the ensuing next couple of decades.

True, but abortions exist in most parts of the civilized world as do things like plan B. They aren't great options but they do exist, and I assume they exist in the UK where this article originates from. For those who truly don't want kids they could take more permanent steps, but I wouldn't imagine more than a small minority would want to use this option. I get that you live in the US, but try to look outside of your UScentric worldview and realize that there are places where sex work is not as risky as it is where you live.

You could also partake in forms of sex work that don't involve penile-vaginal intercourse and as such are absent that risk. Get into the BDSM scene, gay sex work, camming/pornography, stripping etc. I know the article is specifically about prostitution but if you want to sell your body in a sexual fashion you have options.

You can call them out all you want - free speech and all that - but it doesn't change the fact that they outnumber us and as a result have much more say in setting policy and making laws, not to mention the unwritten social rules.

My view will win in the end when looking at global trends and how things are going vis-a-vis sex work outside of the US. If I didn't live next door and wasn't thus subject to a barrage of US news I'd honestly just try to ignore your country and let it implode. It's not my job to change your nation's mind but thankfully I don't have to.