Shep's South Africa Babbling (split from Saddam/Key to Detro

[MKSheppard]

Found this
Comments?

Change your fucking Avatar. This is the real south african
flag, before those marxists in the ANC took over:

[Captain Jack]

Found this
Comments?

Change your fucking Avatar. This is the real south african
flag, before those marxists in the ANC took over:

What the fuck is your problem?

[MKSheppard]

What the fuck is your problem?

South Africa used to be a prosperous country, and then the ANC took over,
and since then, it's gone screaming into the pit, to join the rest of Africa
in a cesspool of misery and hatred.

[MKSheppard]

Oh yes, forgot to add this:

Pardon my seemingly rabid feelings towards the South African flag,
but I really really HATE scumbags who masquerade as democracy
advocates, etc etc, and when they finally seize power, turn the place
into a shithole, re: Rhodesia

[Darth Wong]

Calm down, Shep

[MKSheppard]

Calm down, Shep

CALM DOWN!?!??!

You're not the one who has read in school text books that Zimbawawe's
independence was in 1981!!!!!!!

The truth is the Republic of Rhodesia declared it's independence from Britain
in 1965, not 1981!

[Lord Sander]

South Africa used to be a prosperous country, and then the ANC took over,
and since then, it's gone screaming into the pit, to join the rest of Africa
in a cesspool of misery and hatred.

Wat? Die Kaap is nie meer Hollands?

Disclaimer: not in any way supporting the Boer oppression of the old regime

[MKSheppard]

Now that I've had dinner, I've calmed down somewhat.

Want an analogy of what happened to both Rhodesia and South
Africa?

Imagine that in Canada, a virulent white power party had led a
campaign of bombings and beatings and planted land mines
on Canada's highways for the last 20 years, fighting for "independence",
and that higher up officials in that party had personally overseen the
"necktieing" of dissidents (Necktieing is when you fill an old tire with
petrol, put it around someone's neck and then flick a match)

Thanks to international pressure, Canada's government was forced
to hold an referendum that was rigged and sabotaged by the
thugs of the white power party, leading to their (surprise!) victory.

And since their victory, the party has enaged in vast re-writings of
the textbooks and carried out opressive campaigns against the non-white
population of Canada.

That, in a nutshell is what Rhodesia went thru under ZANU/PF, and what South Africa
is currently going through at the hands of the ANC.

[Captain Jack]

South Africa used to be a prosperous country, and then the ANC took over,
and since then, it's gone screaming into the pit, to join the rest of Africa
in a cesspool of misery and hatred.

Wat? Die Kaap is nie meer Hollands?

Disclaimer: not in any way supporting the Boer oppression of the old regime

Jy is reg Die Kaap is nie meer Hollands

[Durandal]

I fail to see what Saddam Hussein getting the key to Detroit has to do with South Africa.

This thread will be split.

[Captain Jack]

South Africa used to be a prosperous country, and then the ANC took over, and since then, it's gone screaming into the pit, to join the rest of Africa in a cesspool of misery and hatred.

South Africa as a whole was never prosperous, only white heterosexual Christian males were prosperous.

Pardon my seemingly rabid feelings towards the South African flag, but I really really HATE scumbags who masquerade as democracy advocates, etc. etc., and when they finally seize power, turn the place into a shithole, re: Rhodesia

Unlike Zimbabwe, South Africa is a real democracy, look it up.

My avatar will stay until I am tired of it or until the majority of the board objects.

[MKSheppard]

Unlike Zimbabwe, South Africa is a real democracy, look it up.

http://home.wanadoo.nl/rhodesia/goodcom.html

Suitable "comrades" for Mandela indeed. He was himself originally incarcerated, not for his political views, but for involvement in 23 different acts of sabotage and conspiring to overthrow the government. He and his fellow conspirators of the ANC and the South African Communist Party were caught by the police while in the possession of 48,000 Soviet-made anti-personnel mines and 210,000 hand-grenades!* It is also interesting to note that in later years Mandela was offered his freedom by none other than the South African President Botha if he would simply renounce the use of terrorism, but Mandela refused to do this. Winnie Mandela has been equally fulsome in her praise of Communism and violence. In 1986 she was reported in Moscow's communist party newspaper Pravda as saying:

The Soviet Union is the torch-bearer for all our hopes and aspirations. We have learned and are continuing to learn resilience and bravery from the Soviet people, who are an example to us in our struggle for freedom, a model of loyalty to internationalist duty. In Soviet Russia, genuine power of the people has been transformed from dreams into reality. The land of the Soviets is the genuine friend and ally of all peoples fighting against the dark forces of world reaction.

and again at Munsieville, on April 13, 1986, she said:

With our boxes of matches and our necklaces we shall liberate this country.

referring here to her own specific brand of democratic political activity whereby anyone who opposed her would be bound hand and foot and then burned to death by means of a tyre filled with gasoline being placed around the neck and set on fire.

It's those kinds of people who are now running South Africa and running
it into a hole in the ground.

[David]

To my suprise I agree with Shep on this, Nelson Mandela and the party he lead are hardly the saints/martyrs they are made out to be. To this day, the South African government steals private property in true Communist form.

[Captain Jack]

It's those kinds of people who are now running South Africa and running it into a hole in the ground.

How does that refute the point that SA is a democracy?
So Mandela was/is a communist, does that make everyone in SA a communist?

[Beowulf]

Also consider the fact that crime is so bad that people have anti-carjacking defenses that include flamethrowers.

[Captain Jack]

To my suprise I agree with Shep on this, Nelson Mandela and the party he lead are hardly the saints/martyrs they are made out to be. To this day, the South African government steals private property in true Communist form.

Sorce?

[meNNis]

Well, add me to the group which disaproves of your avatar.

[Axis Kast]

There’s no clear “right or wrong” to this argument. It’s utterly subjective, with errors made on both sides thus far.

Between 1960 and 1994, South Africa was prosperous. This is fact. Despite the acknowledged poverty of a vast majority of blacks, Indians, Chinese, and “coloreds,” the country itself was a healthy – some would say “vibrant” – bastion of economic success. South Africa’s minority rulers (then around 18%) enjoyed a range of quality facilities on par with those throughout Western Europe, including world-renowned hospitals, widely-respected centers of academia, and a manufacturing sector of sufficient size and scope as to be deserving of its own unique rank outside Africa proper. The Apartheid government managed to break new ground both scientifically and militarily, successfully hosting the world’s first open-heart surgery and developing via espionage and collaboration with the Israelis both nuclear devices and what is still recognized as one of the world’s best long-range artillery pieces, the G-5/6. There is truth to the argument – however misleading – that even black Africans were better off than most Soviet citizens. More “average” blacks in South Africa had access to automobiles and quality jobs, for instance, than did their counterparts in the Communist world.

Rhodesia followed a similar path. Both countries adopted socialism of a fascist stripe, responding to foreign embargo by looking inward to their own vast mineral wealth. Each was thus able to remain prominently astride the global export markets while either fostering homegrown industry (they went for the nationalized approach with private sub-contractors) or trading with the United States or other “dispossessed” including Israel and Taiwan. Ian Smith’s government, for all its racist facets, made strong use of black support, establishing a number of supremely-skilled military formations populated largely by loyal black troops. Rhodesia’s Selous Scouts are still, for example, the best special forces in the world despite having been disbanded for over twenty years. Their kill ratios are the highest in history.

The problems lie in that South Africa and Rhodesia both used devious and underhanded means to control the native Africans. They left most in abject poverty and threatened even the lightest protest with stiff jail time. While they made great leaps, it was only relevant to a small portion of the population. South Africa’s dictatorship was untenable after the USSR collapsed. ANC violence would have risen to incredible heights. Certain Afrikaners had also become eminently dangerous; after the loss in Angola, South Africa’s military wasn’t the same. It was looking at disaster in SW Africa (Namibia) despite best efforts and terrorist activity back home. America’s support was no longer defensible since the Communist threat was technically moot. A shift in power was inevitable. So was the reorganization that followed. With such a large, uneducated population, South Africa’s targeted economy fell apart. It could never sustain actual tens of millions; merely a small minority of whites within the country. Nothing could be done to salvage it. Mandela and Mbeki are not exactly paragons of democratic virtue, but they’re necessarily terrible either. So they were Communist. Big deal. South Africa was the last fascist stronghold on earth to 1994 – on economic and military as well as political levels.

Rhodesia was also gone. By 1980, ZANU/ZAPU had won despite the Selous Scouts’ best efforts. There was supposed to be a last-ditch slaughter of over ten thousand ZANU/ZAPU activists – including Nkomo and Mugabe -, but the US and UK got wind, became scared, and discouraged the affair by promising to expose South Africa – who in turn refused to back Rhodesia with the necessary troops (despite having forward-deployed 400 or so). It was too risky. Ten thousand men dead? No. They should have just imprisoned Mugabe and Nkomo on charges of fraud and then arranged for the second-most-popular candidate – Bishop Thaddeus Muzrowena – to assume control. But they didn’t, and we have this shit.

Are you South African, Shep?

[Axis Kast]

And by the way, despite their awful connotations, both the old South African and Rhodesian flags are some of the world's coolest.

[MKSheppard]

How does that refute the point that SA is a democracy?

Having a vote every few years does not make a Democracy, Jack.

The USSR was a "democracy", in that everyone voted for who was
sent up to the Supreme Soviet, and so was Mexico, until recently.

[MKSheppard]

Are you South African, Shep?

No, but my eyes as to the truth about those countries was opened recently,
after I read a website run by a former Rhodesian military officer, who
had scans from the official ZANU/PF newspaper, showing Rhodesians
how to tune into Radio Moscow for the latest news

[Stuart Mackey]

I would just like to say at this point that the All Blacks will crush the Spring Boks like worms

[Iceberg]

Are you South African, Shep?

No, but my eyes as to the truth about those countries was opened recently,
after I read a website run by a former Rhodesian military officer, who
had scans from the official ZANU/PF newspaper, showing Rhodesians
how to tune into Radio Moscow for the latest news

*open goggle*

OK, so you read a website run by a guy who had been doing pretty well under the old regime, that's critical of the current one. And you obviously lack the critical reading/thinking skills to figure out why this guy might not be telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help him God.

[Iceberg]

Incidentally, why am I extremely unsuprised that Shep likes the old, fascist, governments of South Africa and Rhodesia?

[Sea Skimmer]

Incidentally, why am I extremely unsuprised that Shep likes the old, fascist, governments of South Africa and Rhodesia?

Compared to the current crop of communist loons they dont look so bad.