Brexit and General UK politics thread

[Zaune]

He's tried tact and diplomacy, repeatedly, and it just went in one ear and straight out the other.

[Lost Soal]

But.. there was a mandate. The PM said so. You have to abide by a mandate.
Since I don't watch question time has ANY MP, asked publicly what she planned to do when the EU told her that she was asking the impossible and the answer is no?
Or do they all still refuse to admit that without EU involvement there must be a hard border?

[LaCroix]

He's stating the obvious - there is pretty much no way that they can get 27 governments to agree with any new proposal in a mere 50 days. And the people who were pushing for this mess are sitting back and pointing fingers at everyone trying to fix it, taking no responsibility for the part they played in it.

Any negotiation result must be aggreed on by the other 27 members - you can't just get to Tusk or Merkel on your side and hope it magically works out in time. And many of these states have already stated they will not agree to anything more than what already has been negotiated. If you want to change that, the bickering would restart.

None of this is the EU's fault -
Britain knew beforehand of what a Brexit would mean, but ignored it while yelling lalala.
The people pushing for Brexit had no plan beyond getting a referendum and win it, and pulled out immediately afterwards, dumping the mess into "anyone but me" 's hands.
Britain ignored the time plan and procrastinated until the very last moment to start negotiations
With barely enough time left, they managed a compromise deal, and then rejected it in parliament.
Now they want to get their cake and eat it, hoping time pressure will make people panic.

The time for diplomatic honey smearing is long gone. It's time to let the adults talk how things actually are.

[His Divine Shadow]

#DangerousHero is now trending on twitter and again the conservatives shot themselves in the foot trying to smear JC.



And the author turned out to be a massive racist:
https://twitter.com/Aman_Sez/status/1094385463547318272

[His Divine Shadow]

The EU already said to May they liked Corbyns proposal, so maybe she should just fuck off.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

I know it was a week ago, but it bears repeating:

European Union head Donald Tusk has taken an extraordinary dig at Brexiteers as he said there was a “special place in hell” reserved for them for leaving the bloc “without a plan”.

Couldn't have put it better myself!

Recently on FB more and more people have been saying we should just leave on WTO rules. ITV news was quick to respond by doing a piece on exactly what that would mean and why no-one else trades on just WTO!

[EnterpriseSovereign]

In fact, I was able to find said piece on their website:

Link.

This is what I'll point people to the next time they say we should leave on WTO terms.

[GrosseAdmiralFox]

First, it is becoming clear that Brexit is going to be basically hard as fuck, partially the EU needs to set an example for any sort of exit (although, given the overall health of several of the key economies in Europe (France's economy isn't doing too well and Italy's is sick as fuck to start)... well... the next few years aren't going to be so pretty) and partially because the pro-Brexit party is ensuring that it would happen.

Two, if Facebook's CEO takes one step on British soil, they'll get dragged to a Parliamentary inquiry.

[Crazedwraith]

In only partial Brexit Related news, 7 Members of Labour of quit to form an indepedent group.

BBC

Seven MPs have resigned from the Labour Party in protest at Jeremy Corbyn's approach to Brexit and anti-Semitism.

They are: Chuka Umunna, Luciana Berger, Chris Leslie, Angela Smith, Mike Gapes, Gavin Shuker and Ann Coffey.

Ms Berger said Labour had become institutionally anti-Semitic and she was "embarrassed and ashamed" to stay.

Mr Corbyn said he was "disappointed" the MPs had felt unable to continue working for the policies that "inspired millions" at the 2017 election.

The MPs are not launching a new political party - they will sit in Parliament as the Independent group.

But Chuka Umunna said they had "taken the first step" and urged other Labour MPs - and members of other parties - to join them in "building a new politics".

"Politics is broken, it doesn't have to be this way. Let's change it," he said at a launch event in central London.

He said there would be "no merger" with the Liberal Democrats and the group wanted to "build a new alternative".

Chris Leslie said the seven would have its first formal meeting "in a few days" time to "assign roles and responsibilities".

The group rejected comparisons with the SDP - which broke away from the Labour Party in the early 1980s but eventually merged with the Liberal Party - saying it was a different era and they would not be contesting by-elections.

'Painful but necessary decision'
Each of the seven took turns to explain their personal reasons for quitting the party.

Ms Berger said: "This morning we have all now resigned from the Labour Party. This has been a very difficult, painful, but necessary decision.

"We represent different parts of the country, we are of different backgrounds, we were born of different generations, but we all share the same values.

"From today, we will all sit in Parliament as a new independent group of MPs."

Chris Leslie said Labour had been "hijacked" by the far left.

Mike Gapes said: "I am sickened that Labour is now perceived by many as a racist, anti-Semitic party."

He added that it was "increasingly clear that prominent figures in the Corbyn Labour leadership do not want to stop Brexit".

Ms Berger initially introduced herself as "the Labour Party MP", before correcting herself and saying: "I am the Member of Parliament for Liverpool Wavertree."

In a statement, Mr Corbyn said: "I am disappointed that these MPs have felt unable to continue to work together for the Labour policies that inspired millions at the last election and saw us increase our vote by the largest share since 1945.

"Labour won people over on a programme for the many not the few - redistributing wealth and power, taking vital resources into public ownership, investing in every region and nation, and tackling climate change.

"The Conservative government is bungling Brexit, while Labour has set out a unifying and credible plan.

"When millions are facing the misery of Universal Credit, rising crime, homelessness, poverty, now more than ever is the time to bring people together to build a better future for all of us."

'Terrible news'
Laura Parker, national coordinator of grassroots Labour campaign Momentum, said the seven MPs wanted to "take us back to the politics of the past" and the "Blair years programme of privatisation, tax cuts for the rich and deregulation of the banks".

"They offer no concrete solutions, no new ideas and have no support amongst the public," she added.

"Tens of thousands of volunteers regularly come out and campaign for Labour. This fringe minority of MPs have today not set out any agenda capable of inspiring anything remotely similar."

Dave Prentis, leader of the Unison trade union, said the split was "terrible news".

"Working people need a Labour government but split parties don't win elections. Labour's overriding concern must be to look long at hard at the reasons why the MPs feel they are no longer able to stay in the party."

As the MPs announced their departure from Labour, former UKIP leader Nigel Farage, whose new Brexit Party launched earlier this year, tweeted: "This moment may not look very exciting but it is the beginning of something bigger in British politics realignment."

Fun times. I was hopeful for Corbyn but he's not managed the leadership we could have. When things like this happen it's got to be consider a failure in party leadership and policies.

[His Divine Shadow]

It's just 7 disingenuous idiots making fools of themselves. These people have been working in bad faith since day one and have not done a single useful thing for labour, all they've been doing is sniping at Corbyn and undermining the party, they are like a cancer that voluntarily leaves the body it's infecting. Now they need to have by-elections.

Look they even spout the bullshit AS talking points as if they were fucking tories when it's already been proven that the labour party is less antisemitic than british society at large, and far more so than the conservatives.

[His Divine Shadow]

Also note they are not a party, but structured as a company to get around donor limitations. Transparent and open... Not at all the kind of skeevy politic fucks who created our current neolib hellworld...

Their mask is slipping before they have had time to even start:
https://twitter.com/evolvepolitics/stat ... 0676029440?

What a terrible loss...

[Vendetta]

Also, of course, pointedly not standing for by-elections in order to give their constituencies a chance to have a say on their actions.

[His Divine Shadow]

They didn't manage a single day without messing up
https://tribunemag.co.uk/2019/02/the-sp ... cried-wolf

https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/30 ... dent-group

From the 1st link

The lack of policies on offer shouldn’t be surprising. After all, The Independent Group is breaking from Labour on deeply unpopular grounds. Angela Smith is opposed to the renationalisation of Britain’s water services. 83% support it. As Shadow Business Secretary, Chuka Umunna opposed the renationalisation of Royal Mail. 65% support that. Chris Leslie has a record of opposing nationalisation in principle – arguing that the left should resist the temptation to “step in and take control.”

I'm sorry but why the fucking fuck are these people in labour to begin with? There's a limit to how fucking "broad a church" the party can be without loosing all meaning. Which is what new labour was. A vacous non entity bereft of vision and ability.

[Crazedwraith]

New Labour were the ones for all their flaws who actually managed to get elected.

[His Divine Shadow]

Yeah in a different world that is gone and dead. New Labours final attempt at an election was an utter disaster. And the same thing is happening in countries all over europe.

[Vendetta]

New Labour were the ones for all their flaws who actually managed to get elected.

They did, but against flailing idiots like Iain Duncan Smith and comedy goblin William Hague, and by cozying up to wealth almost as well as the Tories do (the gap between rich and poor in Britain widened under the Blair government).

[His Divine Shadow]

cred: https://twitter.com/DaveWardGS/status/1 ... 7166646273

[Juubi Karakuchi]

Some cause for cautious optimism.

Three Tory MPs defect to fledgling Independent Group

Anna Soubry, Sarah Wollaston and Heidi Allen quit Conservatives, citing Brexit and lurch to the right

Rowena Mason Deputy political editor

Wed 20 Feb 2019 11.15 GMT
First published on Wed 20 Feb 2019 11.09 GMT

Three Conservative MPs have quit the party to join the Independent Group founded by former Labour MPs.

In what will be seen as a rebuke to Theresa May, Anna Soubry, Sarah Wollaston and Heidi Allen said the Tories had lurched to the right, adopting Ukip policies and pursuing a hard Brexit.

The Independent Group was formed on Monday by seven former Labour MPs, including Chuka Umunna, Luciana Berger and Chris Leslie. Joan Ryan became the eighth MP to quit Labour and join the group on Tuesday night. They said they felt it necessary to leave Labour because of the leadership’s Brexit policy and failure to tackle antisemitism in the party.

In a letter to the prime minister, the three MPs wrote: “We no longer feel we can remain in the party of a government whose policies and priorities are so firmly in the grip of the ERG and DUP.

“Brexit has re-defined the Conservative party – undoing all the efforts to modernise it. There has been a dismal failure to stand up to the hardline ERG, which operates openly as a party within a party, with its own leader, whip and policy.”

Wollaston, Soubry and Allen said government’s handling of Brexit had been “disastrous” and said no genuine effort had been made to build consensus.

“Instead of seeking to heal the divisions or to tackle the underlying causes of Brexit, the priority was to draw up ‘red lines’,” they said. “The 48% were not only sidelined, they were alienated.

“The country deserves better. We believe there is a failure of politics in general, not just in the Conservative party but in both main parties as they move to the fringes, leaving millions of people with no representation. Our politics needs urgent and radical reform and we are determined to play our part.”

The group said they intended to sit as independents, like the eight MPs who have also quit the Labour. “There will be times when we will support the government, for example, on measures to strengthen our economy, security and improve our public services,” the three MPs said. “We will continue to work constructively, locally and nationally, on behalf of our constituents.”

Soubry is a former government minister who sat in David Cameron’s cabinet, while Wollaston is chair of the Commons health and social care committee.

Allen, who was elected in 2015, recently embarked on an “anti-poverty tour” around Britain with the former Labour MP Frank Field.

Their departure from the Conservatives leaves May with an even slimmer Commons majority as the prime minister attempts to win support for her Brexit deal in the coming weeks.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -wollaston

This brings the Independent Group, with the defection of an eighth Labour MP last night, up to eleven. Hopefully more will follow suit, leaving the Tories further weakened and balancing any damage done to Labour. Ideally this presages the collapse of the current party system, but one can only hope.

[Civil War Man]

John Oliver had a Brexit update on his most recent episode. Putting it here since I haven't seen anyone bring it up yet.

[Crazedwraith]

Ironicallu, unavailable in the UK.

[Civil War Man]

Probably because it includes footage of Parliament when May's deal was voted down. In the UK version, it's replaced with a clip from an old Chippendale's exercise video. I'll post the section of the UK version of the episode if I see it come up on Youtube.

It doesn't really cover anything that hasn't already been discussed here, but it is a pretty good compilation of a lot of the issues in one place.

Among the stuff he talks about:
1. No deal will put a hard border in Ireland, which would threaten a return of the violence.
2. Customs would be put in place in all ports of entry, which will result in utter chaos for a transportation and trade system that was designed for high throughput.
3. Possible shortages of medicine and certain foods.
4. Brexit can be cancelled at any time, but all of the politicians either want Brexit to happen or lack the courage to take the political blowback that would result from stopping it.
5. A second referendum would have the same fatal flaws as the original one, which John argues should never have been held to begin with, since most citizens were not in a position to make an informed decision about it (and a lot of people knew that they were not in that position).

[Lost Soal]

Probably because it includes footage of Parliament when May's deal was voted down. In the UK version, it's replaced with a clip from an old Chippendale's exercise video. I'll post the section of the UK version of the episode if I see it come up on Youtube.

The show in general does not become available in the UK until a month or 2 after broadcast. There was one segment a while back, I forget which one, where he specifically noted in the episode that they were forgoing the region lock so that UK viewers could watch in immediately.

[mr friendly guy]

The funniest part of John Oliver's segment was finding out the existence of the Breunion boys

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncHAwux70u8


BTW - if anyone has a problem, just use a VPN and set it to a US address and then you can watch Oliver's segment. If you don't want to pay for a VPN then use Opera as a browser as it has a built in VPN which you can set the location for the "americas" and it seems to work fine.

[mr friendly guy]

With no EU deal in the works, Britain is now doing what the Brexiters said it would. Chart its own destiny, forge its own trade agreements. Show the EU the UK doesn't need them. To do that Britain shows off its diplomatic superpowers again. Its just that its politicians are also its kryptonite. Ok, ok. They are really desperate for some type of trade deal, but their politicians try their best to fuck it up.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... eremy-hunt

Japanese officials have reportedly accused Jeremy Hunt and Liam Fox of taking a “high-handed” approach towards a post-Brexit free trade deal, and briefly considered cancelling bilateral talks due to take place this week.

The Financial Times cited unnamed officials in Tokyo who reacted with dismay to a letter sent on 8 February in which Hunt, the foreign secretary, and Fox, the international trade secretary, insisted that “time is of the essence” in securing a trade deal with Japan, the world’s third-biggest economy.

Hunt and Fox also called for flexibility on both sides – an approach the paper said had been interpreted as criticism that Japan did not share their desire to quickly conclude a free trade agreement after Britain is scheduled to leave the European Union on 29 March.

Japan almost cancelled this one, after the Brits tried to rush things to get a post Brexit deal.

But don't worry, what Jeremy Hunt couldn't fuck up, Gavin Williamson will do one better.

https://www.straitstimes.com/world/euro ... ons-speech

LONDON - Chinese Vice-Premier Hu Chunhua has cancelled trade talks with Britain’s Finance Minister, Mr Philip Hammond, after Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson threatened to deploy an aircraft carrier in Beijing’s backyard, The Sun newspaper reported on Thursday (Feb 14).

Mr Hu was due to hold trade talks with Mr Hammond this weekend.

Instead, the newspaper said, Mr Hu cancelled the talks in protest at Mr Williamson’s speech on Monday.

Mr Williamson had said in a fiery speech that Britain must be prepared to boost its “lethality” and threatened to send the warship to the Pacific in response to Beijing’s military ambitions.

The speech appears to have been seen by both No. 10 Downing Street and the Treasury before Mr Williamson gave it, a defence source told The Sun.

“There is huge anger across Cabinet. Gavin was partially inciting a war – the team knew China wouldn’t be happy,” another source told the newspaper.

China had been expected to lift bans on British poultry and cosmetics which have not been tested on animals during the planned trade talks, opening up access to markets worth an estimated £10.2 billion (S$17.74 billion) over five years.

However, China only offered junior officials for the trade talks, ending hopes that two Memorandums of Understanding would be signed.

Hey the Chinese may ban pig products, but do they accept pig fuckers? Maybe they can make a pig fucker their leader. Oh wait, that's the conservative party.

[His Divine Shadow]

Filed under non-news:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 40681.html

I've often said the UK media is on par with Russia reliability wise, though lately I wonder if that is unfair to Russian media....