Brexit and General UK politics thread

[GrosseAdmiralFox]

Filed under non-news:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 40681.html

I've often said the UK media is on par with Russia reliability wise, though lately I wonder if that is unfair to Russian media....

Unless it's the BBC... don't bother from what I've heard.

[Zaune]

The BBC isn't immune to this sort of thing either, sadly. I wouldn't be surprised if some behind-the-scenes pressure is being applied to keep the tone of their reporting at least mildly favourable to the party of government; thoroughly contrary to custom and practice, of course, but standards are falling everywhere these days.

[His Divine Shadow]

The BBC is utter shit and has been filling for years with tories and their stooges. They are not an exception even if they might have been in the past.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

This is why I pick ITV over BBC any day.

[The Romulan Republic]

The BBC isn't immune to this sort of thing either, sadly. I wouldn't be surprised if some behind-the-scenes pressure is being applied to keep the tone of their reporting at least mildly favourable to the party of government; thoroughly contrary to custom and practice, of course, but standards are falling everywhere these days.

Considering the authoritarian tendencies of the government, I'd be shocked if they weren't leaning on the BBC at least a little.

[Crazedwraith]

Another vote on May's deal another defeat. Barely worthy noticing another day of the shitshow.

[SpottedKitty]

Quite a hefty defeat on the vote, too. Any guesses how much longer May lasts? Not sure if another confidence vote would help much, but... <shrug>

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Yeah, it's become one long clusterfuck- I've no idea what was in the latest offering upon returning to the UK. It's telling how May was sounding audibly hoarse when speaking in Parliament earlier today.

[SpottedKitty]

It's telling how May was sounding audibly hoarse when speaking in Parliament earlier today.

Apparently she'd come straight from an all-nighter in Brussels, trying to talk her way out of yet another failure. Didn't work — yet again, the light at the end of the tunnel really is the 4.50 from Paddington.

[mr friendly guy]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-14/ ... y/10895724

relevant snippets

German passports for the kids
Nigel Farage points his finger while delivering a speech.
PHOTO: Nigel Farage is one of the most recognisable proponents of Brexit, but two of his children have German passports. (Reuters: Clodagh Kilcoyne)
One of the key Brexit campaigners, Nigel Farage, is no stranger to controversy.

The former UK Independence Party (UKIP) leader has been heavily criticised for advocating against the EU while serving as a member of the European Parliament, and suggesting in a BBC interview that he would collect an EU pension after leaving the institution.

Mr Farage, who railed against the "elites" he said were pushing for the UK to remain part of the union, has long appeared impervious to any criticism from his office in Brussels.

A reported visit to the German embassy in London in 2016, around the time of the Brexit referendum, prompted unfounded speculation online he was looking for a permanent way out of the UK.

It later emerged that his two daughters with his German wife, Kirsten Mehr, hold German passports — giving them the unfettered access to the EU that many Brits would like to keep.

Ms Mehr and Mr Farage have been separated since 2017, according to UK media reports.

Moving business headquarters to Singapore
Sir James Dyson with the Queen at Buckingham Palace.
PHOTO: Sir James Dyson, left, with the Queen and other recipients of the Order of Merit at Buckingham Palace, is taking his business elsewhere. (Reuters: Dominic Lipinsk)
Billionaire Brexit backer James Dyson sparked a firestorm of criticism when it emerged in January that he was moving his company's headquarters to Singapore.

Mr Dyson — whose eponymous company is best known for its vacuum cleaners — has called on the UK to leave the EU without a deal.

But his company won't be sticking around to discover firsthand how that might pan out.

The announcement came as scores of other major firms were shifting their operations to other countries ahead of Brexit.

Dyson's chief executive Jim Rowan denied the move was related to Brexit, telling UK newspapers it was about "future proofing" the business.

Sought residency in France
British politician and Brexit supporter Nigel Lawson gestures during a debate.
PHOTO: Nigel Lawson, a former chancellor in Margaret Thatcher's government, has reportedly called Brexit "a mess". (Reuters: Toby Melville)
Nigel Lawson chaired the Vote Leave campaign, is president of Conservatives for Britain, and supports lobby group Leave Means Leave.

He has also reportedly lived in a sprawling property in the south of France since 2001 — and announced last year that he would apply for a French residency card.

Unsurprisingly, his plans fanned the flames of controversy back in the UK.

However, there is now some confusion over whether Mr Lawson will follow through, with a local English-language newspaper reporting recently that he wanted to sell his home in France.

Those reports have not been confirmed, but he was clear in his feeling about the continent in a 2016 interview with The Guardian, saying: "I love Europe. That's why I live in France."

Opened new business in Ireland
Conservative British MP Jacob Rees-Mogg walks past an anti-Brexit protester.
PHOTO: Jacob Rees-Mogg was instrumental in a failed bid to oust Theresa May as prime minister over her handling of Brexit last year. (Reuters: Clodagh Kilcoyne)
Conservative politician Jacob Rees-Mogg is a staunch Eurosceptic who has argued vociferously against Mrs May's EU divorce deal from the Government's backbench.

He made waves in mid 2018 when the Financial Times revealed that a London-based financial firm he cofounded had launched an investment fund in Ireland.

A prospectus for the firm, Somerset Capital Management, last year warned investors about the "considerable uncertainty" relating to Brexit, saying UK-based operations "may as a result be affected".

However, Mr Rees-Mogg insisted in an interview with the UK's Telegraph newspaper that the decision to launch the Irish fund had "nothing whatsoever to do with Brexit"

What's that english saying about about sinking ships and rats?

[bilateralrope]

Rats generally don't cause the ship to sink before they flee it.

[madd0ct0r]

So, watched the votes live last night.

It's complicated one.
Tuesday, the govement put forward leaving on may's deal, which was rejected by mps

Wednesday governemtn put forward a bill which was "the UK should not leave on a no-deal on the 29th, but other times are possible". The gov whipped it's memebrs to vote for that. BUT it got amended before the vote to the UK should not leave on a no-deal ever on the 29th, but other times are possible"
the gov instructred it's mps to vote against the amendment, which meant the whip on the main vote got confused (are you still instrucuterd to vote for something heavily modified? - so a bunch of ministers abstained)
So leaving without a deal is now also rejected by mps

Tonight, they vote on wether to ask for more time, but first they vote on these four amendments: I predict h fails. i passes, e may pass if i does not, and j... i suspect j might be rejected, but it puts a lot of power in Bercow's hands as he can enforce that rule anyway, so it might be passed merely to take it out of his hands (and i think he'll follow the vote result on it anyway, probably why he selected it).

At the start of today's main Brexit debate, Speaker John Bercow announces that he has selected the following four amendments for debate:
Amendment (h) – Cross-party Remainers
This amendment requests an extension of Article 50 in order to have another referendum.
Amendment (i) – Benn/Cooper
This amendment, which has lots of cross party support, would allow MPs to take control of parliamentary business next Wednesday (20 March).
They would use the time to debate a Brexit motion that could lead to Parliament holding a series of indicative votes on different Brexit options, possibly the following week.
He adds that there has been a 'manuscript' amendment tabled to this, which will be published shortly.
Amendment (e) – Labour frontbench
This amendment rejects the PM’s deal and the idea of leaving without a deal.
It also calls for an extension to Brexit talks to “provide parliamentary time for this House to find a majority for a different approach”.
Amendment (j) – Bryant/Brake
This amendment orders the government not to put its Brexit deal to another vote, citing parliamentary rules.

[Crazedwraith]

So they've voted on a delay today:

UK MPs have voted by 412 to 202 for Prime Minister Theresa May to ask the EU for a delay to Brexit.

It means the UK may not now leave on 29 March as previously planned.

Mrs May says Brexit could be delayed by three months, to 30 June, if MPs back her withdrawal deal in a vote next week.

If they reject her deal again then she says she will seek a longer extension - but any delay has to be agreed by the 27 other EU member states.

Just breaking news ATM. I don't get the purpose of a delay if the Deal is approved.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Even Donald Trump said something that wasn't batshit crazy: he said that it was "tearing the country apart". And you know what the most disturbing part is? He's right!

[Bedlam]

Just breaking news ATM. I don't get the purpose of a delay if the Deal is approved.

Its to give time to actually fully vote the deal into law. Beyond just agreeing to it there's a lot more paperwork which needs to be done and that can't be completed in just a week.

[LaCroix]

The question is why the EU27 wwould approve - after two rejects, why should they believe that in 3 months, all will be rosy and fine with the MPs?

No matter if May gets this through, the EU will most likely not agree on a delay - it only needs one of the 27 to veto, and I guarantee you that one will...

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Well May was planning on putting her deal to the MPs for a third vote, only for the speaker to put a stop to it. Apparently putting the exact same deal to another vote is breaking the rules. Who knew?

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results".

[TimothyC]

Explanations from here

No-Deal Brexit (B) - 160 to 400
Proposes leaving the EU on April 12 without any kind of deal. This has been put forward by Conservative John Baron.

Common Market 2.0/Norway Plus (D) - 188 to 283
The U.K. stays in the European Economic Area and rejoins the European Free Trade Association, giving it access to the EU single market. That’s Norway’s relationship. But this adds a “comprehensive customs arrangement” to it -- hence the “Norway Plus” moniker. It’s backed by Labour’s Stephen Kinnock and Lucy Powell, and Tories Nick Boles and Robert Halfon.

Norway Option (H) - 65 to 377
Similar to motion (D) but without the customs union. The U.K. stays in the European Economic Area and rejoins the European Free Trade Association, giving it single-market access. Proposed by Tory MP George Eustice.

Customs Union (J) - 264 to 272
Tory grandee Ken Clarke wants the U.K. to leave the EU having secured a permanent customs union with the bloc at a minimum.

Labour’s Brexit Plan (K) - 237 to 307
The official Labour proposal, to back the Withdrawal Agreement that Prime Minister Theresa May has negotiated, in return for her seeking a customs union with the EU, a close alignment with the single market, and a close relationship to other institutions.

No-Deal Emergency Brake (L) - 184 to 293
A process amendment, this would require a confirmatory vote in Parliament if the U.K. got to within two days of a no-deal Brexit. Proposed by the Scottish National Party’s Joanna Cherry, it’s also backed by Tory Dominic Grieve and Liberal Democratic Party leader Vince Cable.

Second Referendum (M) - 268 to 295
A process motion that says Parliament shouldn’t ratify or implement any withdrawal agreement until it has been approved in a referendum. In the name of Labour’s Margaret Beckett, as well as Peter Kyle and Phil Wilson.

Malthouse Plan B (O) - 139 to 422
This is the other part of the so-called Malthouse compromise, which says that if Plan A (see above) doesn’t work, the U.K. should seek a “standstill” agreement with the EU while a broader trade deal is negotiated. Tory Brexiteer Marcus Fysh has proposed it.

[Vendetta]

Basically, everyone* told MPs they should get a Brexit.

Theresa May, who didn't really want one, picked out a Brexit after two years of trying to get the salesman to reccommend one without telling him what type of Brexit she wanted.

But MPs didn't want that Brexit.

Eventually they decided to go to the showroom themselves to look at all the Brexits, but they decided they didn't like any of the Brexits that were there whilst still being adamant that they should now have a Brexit because they've been looking for one all this time.

So they don't want to not have a Brexit, but they also don't want any of the Brexits that could possibly exist.

* Well, the loud opinionated guy down the pub told them that everyone was getting Brexits and they should get one if they didn't want to be left out.

[Bedlam]

I can't help but think that a vote like this should have happened 2-3 years ago rather than a few weeks at most before a decision needs to be made.

[madd0ct0r]

I love politics and its getting to the point im giving up.

Everything changes daily but nothing ever changes.

We have probably invoked all the short term costs of brexit already. We have definitely invoked a bunch of the medium term ones in that we are no longer swen as a stable regime with long term laws you can plan around.


And where that cost shrinks/spreads the finance sector and reduces London part of me laughs.

Part of me worries about the treasury, cos without bank taxes we lose a lot income and this government happily throws the poor to the wolves
.

And we know that the slimes jockeying to replace may will invite more wolves in with a citizen rights buffet. Yuck.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Not one of whom will have the balls to revoke Article 50 because they know it'll piss off a large percentage of the electorate. And doing the opposite will piss off the rest. It's damned if you do, damned if you don't. Anyone who actually wants the position with the way things are really must have a screw loose- wouldn't surprise me if Boris Johnson threw his hat into the ring.

[Ace Pace]

At this point, the British lawmakers have rejected
No Deal Brexit
EU approved Brexit
A variety of fantasy Brexit agreements
A 2nd referendum
A delay of Brexit

What next? Seriously, what does Britan in the end of April look like?

[Tribble]

At this point, the British lawmakers have rejected
No Deal Brexit
EU approved Brexit
A variety of fantasy Brexit agreements
A 2nd referendum
A delay of Brexit

What next? Seriously, what does Britan in the end of April look like?

Too bad parliament structure doesn’t allow for ranked ballots, as if that was allowed I’m sure one of them would go through.

[SolarpunkFan]

What next? Seriously, what does Britan in the end of April look like?

Maybe like this? Photosensitive epilepsy warning: YouTube