You command the Battle of Crait (RAR).

[The Romulan Republic]

Whether they sucked is beside the point. The point is that it looks like the execs took the entirely wrong lesson from the response to the Prequels.

[ray245]

Whether they sucked is beside the point. The point is that it looks like the execs took the entirely wrong lesson from the response to the Prequels.

Because fanboys spent ages complaining on the internet, and Disney being cowardly tried to appease them.

This is why trying to appease the fanboys is a mistake, because fanboys rarely know what they truly want.

[The Romulan Republic]

Whether they sucked is beside the point. The point is that it looks like the execs took the entirely wrong lesson from the response to the Prequels.

Because fanboys spent ages complaining on the internet, and Disney being cowardly tried to appease them.

This is why trying to appease the fanboys is a mistake, because fanboys rarely know what they truly want.

Apparently they mostly want (their imagined through rose-tinted glasses version of) the OT all over again, except original, but not too original.

So yeah, basically unpleasable.

[Patroklos]

That was not what the critisisms of the prequels were. At best the closest to your statement to the actual prequel ctritisisms is that the tone of the OT should be maintained. This is where TFA was and is considered better than the prequels. For all it’s gaping plot holes and retreads TFA is still about plucky hero’s on adventure. They got that right.

That is not the same thing as desiring a 75% point of point rehash of plot. Nor does that give somobe an excuse to declare any pile of shit served to us caviar because it deviates from this imagined fanboi OT retread fantasy you are shoe horning onto the fandom at large.

[Shroom Man 777]

It probably means they have an over-reliance on electronic tracking via whatever their equivalent to radar is. Even if we assume a larger distance than what is shown on screen you should be able to spot their engine exhaust from the Supremacy. Plus, the explanation for how Rose's cloak even worked in the first place is... She baffled their energy signature using a computer. Even being generous and saying that she could reprogram the IFF transponders and set the engines to burn in a way that looks like another type of craft that's subterfuge and not stealth.

Frankly what it means is that more established canon was taken out back and shot for the sake of Rian's magical chase scene.

"Cloak" and "stealth" can include those means and not just directly obscuring an object optically... I mean that's how these systems work IRL with either passive signals reduction like aircraft shaped to be LO and coated in RAM, active signals cancellation like with the Rafale's systems supposedly, ECM or ECCM. Perhaps aside from engine emissions alterations, just drifting towards the planet with minimum burn while being silhouetted by the active emissions of the capital ships (which may be emitting their own ECM or just radiating dirtily or just huge) can add to the effect.

It’s still canon that the Core holds the vast majority of the galaxy’s population, wealth and industry. The Republic held all or most of it throughout its varying existence in peace and war. The FO controls none of it, and the limited explaination of who the FO makes them a splinter of a splinter of the Empire and specifically locatedms them in the unknown regions. They name should tell you how insignificant the FO home turf is to the galaxy at large, and we laces them squarely BFE behind the backwater Outer Rim. The Republic wiping itself into shape during the Clone Wars is akin to the US or USSR tapping its natural resource superiority to stomp an initially superior foe. The FO doing what we see in nuWars is like Chiang Kai-Shek losing all of China and retreating to the separated backwater Taiwan, and then Taiwan invading mainland China 30 years later as the overwhelmingly technological and materially dominant conquerer.

The Republic does contain a lot of Imperial sympathizers, with a lot of neutrals being spineless or just waiting to rally around a renewed Empire after the New Republic gets decapitated. Sad to say that the Gerrerists didn't do a thorough enough job.

[Shroom Man 777]

Whether they sucked is beside the point. The point is that it looks like the execs took the entirely wrong lesson from the response to the Prequels.

Because fanboys spent ages complaining on the internet, and Disney being cowardly tried to appease them.

This is why trying to appease the fanboys is a mistake, because fanboys rarely know what they truly want.

Apparently they mostly want (their imagined through rose-tinted glasses version of) the OT all over again, except original, but not too original.

So yeah, basically unpleasable.

This is why I love TLJ, Rian didn't do that because he didn't give a shit about those loser fan boys, so we got the film and nobodies crying about it to this day

[ray245]

Because fanboys spent ages complaining on the internet, and Disney being cowardly tried to appease them.

This is why trying to appease the fanboys is a mistake, because fanboys rarely know what they truly want.

Apparently they mostly want (their imagined through rose-tinted glasses version of) the OT all over again, except original, but not too original.

So yeah, basically unpleasable.

This is why I love TLJ, Rian didn't do that because he didn't give a shit about those loser fan boys, so we got the film and nobodies crying about it to this day

He kinda did by properly resetting everything back to the old Empire vs Rebels formula. JJ Abrams already did that, but Rian Johnson carried on with it further.

[Shroom Man 777]

He kinda did by properly resetting everything back to the old Empire vs Rebels formula. JJ Abrams already did that, but Rian Johnson carried on with it further.

With that he might not have had a choice due to the company directives, which sucks, but he made that Empire become Emperor-less and led by an incel MRA spree shooter and actually not-an-empire but splintered nostalgic inheritors - so saying that it's a reset is like saying Charlottesville is a reset of WW2 "Nazis vs. Soviets." For the Resistance, yeah but it seems like he altered what being a Jedi is about and "democratized" how the Force can be accessed.

Heck, fans' vaunted EU is all about Empire vs. Rebels when it's not Hutts making a superlaser

[Jub]

"Cloak" and "stealth" can include those means and not just directly obscuring an object optically... I mean that's how these systems work IRL with either passive signals reduction like aircraft shaped to be LO and coated in RAM, active signals cancellation like with the Rafale's systems supposedly, ECM or ECCM. Perhaps aside from engine emissions alterations, just drifting towards the planet with minimum burn while being silhouetted by the active emissions of the capital ships (which may be emitting their own ECM or just radiating dirtily or just huge) can add to the effect.

Those all require design and hardware solutions and Rose literally just fucked with those transports computers to get a working cloak. That's some Star Trek level tech sorcery there and it, along with the Falcon's jump through a planetary shield, are things that we never saw in the OT or PT. It's a sign of simply not understanding the universe the way Lucas did.

[FaxModem1]

He kinda did by properly resetting everything back to the old Empire vs Rebels formula. JJ Abrams already did that, but Rian Johnson carried on with it further.

With that he might not have had a choice due to the company directives, which sucks, but he made that Empire become Emperor-less and led by an incel MRA spree shooter and actually not-an-empire but splintered nostalgic inheritors - so saying that it's a reset is like saying Charlottesville is a reset of WW2 "Nazis vs. Soviets." For the Resistance, yeah but it seems like he altered what being a Jedi is about and "democratized" how the Force can be accessed.

Heck, fans' vaunted EU is all about Empire vs. Rebels when it's not Hutts making a superlaser

So, he was a contractor asked to build a house from what's already been built, and to specifications, and instead he covered it in gasoline and lit a match, but then quickly set up a shack to make sure he fell within guidelines?

I mean, I don't blame him. JJ Abrams is quite a bit of a hack, and he relies on the efforts of others to carry his idea through to the finish line while he gets bored and goes to other projects, but if Rian Johnson didn't want to be the guy to make a Star Wars movie, or at least not be the one to follow the franchise requirements, why did he go for subversion, then backpedal so quickly at the end?

[ray245]

He kinda did by properly resetting everything back to the old Empire vs Rebels formula. JJ Abrams already did that, but Rian Johnson carried on with it further.

With that he might not have had a choice due to the company directives, which sucks, but he made that Empire become Emperor-less and led by an incel MRA spree shooter and actually not-an-empire but splintered nostalgic inheritors - so saying that it's a reset is like saying Charlottesville is a reset of WW2 "Nazis vs. Soviets." For the Resistance, yeah but it seems like he altered what being a Jedi is about and "democratized" how the Force can be accessed.

Heck, fans' vaunted EU is all about Empire vs. Rebels when it's not Hutts making a superlaser

I see that as Rian Johnson doing that as a "Fuck your premise JJ, I'm going to make sure everyone knows how stupid your mystery boxes are" than an attempt to develop the world in a more interesting manner.

And I think Johnson is far more superior than JJ Abrams. All the people cheering for Abrams have themselves to blame if they find the ST era underdeveloped.

[Jub]

I see that as Rian Johnson doing that as a "Fuck your premise JJ, I'm going to make sure everyone knows how stupid your mystery boxes are" than an attempt to develop the world in a more interesting manner.

And I think Johnson is far more superior than JJ Abrams. All the people cheering for Abrams have themselves to blame if they find the ST era underdeveloped.

What if we hate both directors and want somebody who actually cares about making a living universe working on it instead? Sadly, James Cameron is busy making Avatars 2 through 78 billion but somebody like him who's made good multi-movie sic-fi before would have been a better choice.

[ray245]

I see that as Rian Johnson doing that as a "Fuck your premise JJ, I'm going to make sure everyone knows how stupid your mystery boxes are" than an attempt to develop the world in a more interesting manner.

And I think Johnson is far more superior than JJ Abrams. All the people cheering for Abrams have themselves to blame if they find the ST era underdeveloped.

What if we hate both directors and want somebody who actually cares about making a living universe working on it instead? Sadly, James Cameron is busy making Avatars 2 through 78 billion but somebody like him who's made good multi-movie sic-fi before would have been a better choice.

James Cameron has voiced his dislike of the new movies for being visually unoriginal. So that's something to keep note of.

Also, shroomy, I don't care who is the leader of the FO. It's still stormtroopers and TIE fighters against the X-Wings. I'm bored of such things. I hated it in the old EU and I hated it in the new movies. So you don't need to tell me how it's the same in the old EU.

The fact that the movies is bascially telling the same factions fighting each other in the MK 7 or MK 8 or stormtroopers armour bores me.

[Shroom Man 777]

So, he was a contractor asked to build a house from what's already been built, and to specifications, and instead he covered it in gasoline and lit a match, but then quickly set up a shack to make sure he fell within guidelines?

I mean, I don't blame him. JJ Abrams is quite a bit of a hack, and he relies on the efforts of others to carry his idea through to the finish line while he gets bored and goes to other projects, but if Rian Johnson didn't want to be the guy to make a Star Wars movie, or at least not be the one to follow the franchise requirements, why did he go for subversion, then backpedal so quickly at the end?

How did he backpedal? By playing with fans' expectations and Abrams-isms and then torpedoing them, I think he "restored" the material to a more open state with possibilities rather than the burden of cliches and expectations (as these cliches and expectations have been defied). I don't think that's backpedaling.

I see that as Rian Johnson doing that as a "Fuck your premise JJ, I'm going to make sure everyone knows how stupid your mystery boxes are" than an attempt to develop the world in a more interesting manner.

These aren't mutually exclusive. I think by averting JJ Abrams' Abram-isms and the old cliches (that the Abramisms were re-enacting), Rian changed the basis of the settings in interesting manners IMO. The meta-commentary on Kylo and the First Order, of how this portrays both neo-fascism AND fandom toxicity, Luke's Mua'dib-like burdens perhaps also analogous to creators shackled by their own creations (was he hiding from saving the galaxy or writing Winds of Winter ), etc.

I think he didn't burn the establishment down leaving solely nothing, I think he caramelized it and took it somewhere else. More would've been better, yeah I admit. I wish he Jodorowsky'd the fuck out of it. Snoke should've had a golden toilet, when Luke died he should've placed his consciousness in EVERY believer of the Resistance to show that his spirit and the very idea of defiance became one - like when in Jodorowsky's Dune Feyd slit Paul's throat but then everyone's eyes glowed as they chanted "I am Paul."

And I think Johnson is far more superior than JJ Abrams. All the people cheering for Abrams have themselves to blame if they find the ST era underdeveloped.

I agree and welcome Rian's developments.

If he "covered it in gasoline and lit a match" then he did so in the fashion of Seth... Freaking... Rollins who is going to face Brock Lesnar this Wrestlemania and defeat him, going into Suplex City to BURN IT DOOOOWWWNNN!!!!

[Shroom Man 777]

Those all require design and hardware solutions and Rose literally just fucked with those transports computers to get a working cloak. That's some Star Trek level tech sorcery there and it, along with the Falcon's jump through a planetary shield, are things that we never saw in the OT or PT. It's a sign of simply not understanding the universe the way Lucas did.

But don't you see it's actually understanding the universe perfectly after all ECM and ECCM is precisely why SW space combat scenes happen in eyeball distance otherwise without this the starfighters would be performing ridiculous high-g maneuvers and totally not fighting like WW2 aircraft and the capships would be firing at each other from across solar systems and the gigaterametahugebiggajoulatonnes would be vaporizing spherical masses of iron the size of God's balls if it weren't for the hyperdurable neutronium-ingrained armors with neutrino heatsink radiators withstanding such yields.

Hmmm... we've seen the Ghost in the series Rebels display some LO non-visual stealth/cloak/masking tech, same with Maul's original vessel. These were already established in the verse.

[Jub]

But don't you see it's actually understanding the universe perfectly after all ECM and ECCM is precisely why SW space combat scenes happen in eyeball distance otherwise without this the starfighters would be performing ridiculous high-g maneuvers and totally not fighting like WW2 aircraft and the capships would be firing at each other from across solar systems and the gigaterametahugebiggajoulatonnes would be vaporizing spherical masses of iron the size of God's balls if it weren't for the hyperdurable neutronium-ingrained armors with neutrino heatsink radiators withstanding such yields.

It's good to have you back. This board loses something without your brand of levity.

Using your logic, I guess even a basic transports computer can be an ECM system if a plot essential character says it can be. Get Rose on the Falcon and you have the fastest and stealthiest ship in the Galaxy! Now it can zoom in under a capital ship's shields and pew-pew away all the guns while the guys on the bridge are yelling 'No ship that size can have a cloaking device'. Then the space B-17's can fly in and WWII carpet bomb them as the bridge crew would never launch fighters until it's too late. It's all brilliant writing after all!

[houser2112]

Ugh, the space B-17s. What, are ALL the Y-Wings and B-Wings gone? We have new X-Wings, why not a new model of those tried-and-true effective designs?

[Gandalf]

Ugh, the space B-17s. What, are ALL the Y-Wings and B-Wings gone? We have new X-Wings, why not a new model of those tried-and-true effective designs?

Resistance movements don't always get the stuff they want. Sometimes they have to make do with what they can get.

[Jub]

Ugh, the space B-17s. What, are ALL the Y-Wings and B-Wings gone? We have new X-Wings, why not a new model of those tried-and-true effective designs?

Resistance movements don't always get the stuff they want. Sometimes they have to make do with what they can get.

So larger newer bombers produced in limited numbers are cheaper and more available than the smaller older Y-Wing which was so common the Rebellion had wings upon wings of them? It's not even as if a service life of 56 years is that long in the scheme of things so Y-Wings would probably still be a fairly common craft, especially in poorer backwater regions.

Hell, there's also the question of why the Rebellion and Resistance never thought to manufacture battle droids and droid starfighters to augment their limited numbers. As we've seen droid fighters aren't significantly worse than non-Jedi pilots and should be easy to mass produce.

[NeoGoomba]

I'm guessing there was still a lot of bitter memories regarding using battle droids and droid fighters, especially in a lot of Clone War vets still in the Imperial Navy. I think it would be an easy PR move for the Empire to paint the Rebellion as a new offshoot of the Separatists if the Rebels started going that route.

And as current events show, enough of the populace will just lap up whatever leadership is in power that caters to them for such a line of BS to actually stick.

[Esquire]

I mean, the Empire does that anyway, and the Rebellion's main support is the outer rim (so the people who were in fact Separatists back in the day) - may as well be hung for treason as for being late...

[Shroom Man 777]

It's good to have you back. This board loses something without your brand of levity.

Using your logic, I guess even a basic transports computer can be an ECM system if a plot essential character says it can be.

Presumably the prep involves some components that aren't always readily available otherwise it'd be easy to scale up and make everything from capships to attack ships super duper stealthy? The ship in Rebels does appear to be an indistinct transport too, maybe Hera Syndulla and Chopper taught a LO RCS/RAM/EMCON class in Rebel School or had Holotube Tutorials. Maybe Rose's description was incomplete and other technicians contributed other shit. Perhaps she has a high midichlorian count and instead of a childhood spent cobbling up podracers yipee and C3POs she made amateur stealth craft to be alone to write holo-fanfic. Who knows?

Get Rose on the Falcon and you have the fastest and stealthiest ship in the Galaxy! Now it can zoom in under a capital ship's shields and pew-pew away all the guns while the guys on the bridge are yelling 'No ship that size can have a cloaking device'. Then the space B-17's can fly in and WWII carpet bomb them as the bridge crew would never launch fighters until it's too late. It's all brilliant writing after all!

Well, Han and Poe's own feats of jerry-rigging and guesstimation and hotdog piloting have done similar ridiculities. In Han's case this was more egregious. What Rose did wasn't bolstering the speed to ludicrous levels, NOR was the stealth even the stealthiest or even one of the stealthier ones... the vessels weren't noticed as they moved AWAY from the hostiles that were pre-occupied by a main target (that may be covering the escape with drive/shield/E-war emissions), it was easily counteracted when Space Benicio just said "oh they've got ships there so take a closer look" or made up his own counter-codes or IDK (and he likewise did weird ass stealth stuff on that ship to allow it to sneak into USS Snoke's Boomerang or did it manage to get in because Benicio sold them out? And granted it was some VIP ship and maybe it belonged to Space Escobar who used it to smuggle Space Cocaine past the Space Coast Guard) and the FO gunnery just went "oh I see" and took mere minutes or seconds to adjust properly. Either way the transports' limited-use stealth tech, that it's not proliferated among their attack elements that'd get right in front of the faces of FO combat sensors, that even Hero of Starkiller Poo Damewrong wasn't familiar, that in its first use the enemy was still able to counteract it, etc. means it's not something Rose can poop out any time. Space guerrillas that do hit and run have camouflaged vessels that their ragtag mechanics can jerry-rig, shock!

I absolutely seriously think the non-weirdness of Canto Bight's gambling games and the Earth-y Great Gatsby-ness of the gambling addicts' attire was more disruptive and disrespectful to established lore, worldbuilding and in-universe strategic technological progression and its connection with thematic nuance, than "stealthed escape ships."

So larger newer bombers produced in limited numbers are cheaper and more available than the smaller older Y-Wing which was so common the Rebellion had wings upon wings of them? It's not even as if a service life of 56 years is that long in the scheme of things so Y-Wings would probably still be a fairly common craft, especially in poorer backwater regions.

Maybe the older bombers just got worn down, or they became absorbed by system defense forces of the more pacifistic New Republic while its central military had newer vessels (that Starkiller nuked), or they got demilitarized as part of the peace accords that might've been influenced by FO/Imperial sympathetic lobbyists and Hydra agents, so the newer slower bombers were what the later Resistance had left and as we see proves inadequate for its needs (maybe it worked better in conventional military usage when used in combined arms assaults).

Maybe the Rebel bomber corps and their head figure Lurtis Cemay went with the Gerrerists and so the use of the Y-Wing and B-Wings in the ideological correction of Coruscant and Kuat made that neoliberal centrist moderate Mon Mothma blanch and so she had those types of craft phased out in favor of something less tainted by a reputation of noble ideologically correct proletarian struggle and righteous bloodshed for the multicosmic peoples of the galaxy in accordance with the precepts of Gerrero-Gulletism.

Hell, there's also the question of why the Rebellion and Resistance never thought to manufacture battle droids and droid starfighters to augment their limited numbers. As we've seen droid fighters aren't significantly worse than non-Jedi pilots and should be easy to mass produce.

The Rebels might've had droids in their ranks, we do see that CIS-era commander droid escape with assets in Rebels and he might've contributed in the later wars... but perhaps the Gerrerists disliked them after Generalissimo Bor Gullet grew paranoid during his reign of terror over Coruscant and Kuat, fearing the Med Droids' Plot and persecuting the machines, forcing them to abandon the Resistance and create a Droid Homeland. Yes, this is what happened to Tattooine, and now the droids are building settlement factories that encroach on what's left of Tuskenstinian or Jawastine territory. So no droids.

[Jub]

Presumably the prep involves some components that aren't always readily available otherwise it'd be easy to scale up and make everything from capships to attack ships super duper stealthy? The ship in Rebels does appear to be an indistinct transport too, maybe Hera Syndulla and Chopper taught a LO RCS/RAM/EMCON class in Rebel School or had Holotube Tutorials. Maybe Rose's description was incomplete and other technicians contributed other shit. Perhaps she has a high midichlorian count and instead of a childhood spent cobbling up podracers yipee and C3POs she made amateur stealth craft to be alone to write holo-fanfic. Who knows?

I think it would have been nice to see her doing that then or even just pitching the idea before she runs off with Poe and Finn. You could have her arguing that they can launch the transports after the first escort goes down only for Holdo to tell her that she has a plan. Then after the second cruiser goes down and Holdo rejects her plan again she's sulking in near an escape pod and stops Finn from running away.

You can even have her admit that her idea would only fool the First Order for a few minutes in a bonding moment between her and Finn.

Well, Han and Poe's own feats of jerry-rigging and guesstimation and hotdog piloting have done similar ridiculities. In Han's case this was more egregious. What Rose did wasn't bolstering the speed to ludicrous levels,

Han had more time to and resources to work with. Imagine what Rose could do if she was allowed to engineer her heart out on something as haphazzard as a Falcon. Heck, she might even get it to run reliably!

NOR was the stealth even the stealthiest or even one of the stealthier ones... the vessels weren't noticed as they moved AWAY from the hostiles that were pre-occupied by a main target (that may be covering the escape with drive/shield/E-war emissions), it was easily counteracted when Space Benicio just said "oh they've got ships there so take a closer look" or made up his own counter-codes or IDK (and he likewise did weird ass stealth stuff on that ship to allow it to sneak into USS Snoke's Boomerang or did it manage to get in because Benicio sold them out? And granted it was some VIP ship and maybe it belonged to Space Escobar who used it to smuggle Space Cocaine past the Space Coast Guard) and the FO gunnery just went "oh I see" and took mere minutes or seconds to adjust properly. Either way the transports' limited-use stealth tech, that it's not proliferated among their attack elements that'd get right in front of the faces of FO combat sensors, that even Hero of Starkiller Poo Damewrong wasn't familiar, that in its first use the enemy was still able to counteract it, etc. means it's not something Rose can poop out any time. Space guerrillas that do hit and run have camouflaged vessels that their ragtag mechanics can jerry-rig, shock!

Yeah, I think that framed correctly it could have worked but what we actually got was so thin on setup it was an 'Oh, I guess they can just do that now' type of moment rather than showing off how much work Rose had to put into making something that might not even work. It would just ratchet the tension up an extra notch and give Rose more scenes where she's doing cool stuff in her own element rather than being Finn's +1 for most of the movie.

I absolutely seriously think the non-weirdness of Canto Bight's gambling games and the Earth-y Great Gatsby-ness of the gambling addicts' attire was more disruptive and disrespectful to established lore, worldbuilding and in-universe strategic technological progression and its connection with thematic nuance, than "stealthed escape ships."

I agree, that was awful.

I also think the Raddus running out of fuel was worse than the shuttles too. I'd rather have put the Raddus on a timer due to battle damage causing a cooling issue. They can only push for so long before the reactor melts down.

Heck you could then write an opening battle where Poe has his wing of X-Wings and Y-Wings mopping up the last of the Fulmanatrix's fighter wing and starting an attack run on the fleet killer. Then the FO launches their space B-17's and Poe orders his fighters to ignore them and focus on the capital ship as the juicier target. His choice ultimate leads to trading damage to the Raddus for the Fulmanatrix and setting up the ticking clock for the chase.

Maybe the older bombers just got worn down, or they became absorbed by system defense forces of the more pacifistic New Republic while its central military had newer vessels (that Starkiller nuked), or they got demilitarized as part of the peace accords that might've been influenced by FO/Imperial sympathetic lobbyists and Hydra agents, so the newer slower bombers were what the later Resistance had left and as we see proves inadequate for its needs (maybe it worked better in conventional military usage when used in combined arms assaults).

I kind of feel like in addition to being too slow for the kinds of missions a resistance movement would ideally be planning they fit more as a First Order weapon. The FO can use them to drop bomblets, landmines, and even space landmines to show how evil they are. Then we can let the Resistance fighter aces cut them down showing the crews inside desperately manning the space door guns and ball turrets to keep the fighters off of them.

Maybe the Rebel bomber corps and their head figure Lurtis Cemay went with the Gerrerists and so the use of the Y-Wing and B-Wings in the ideological correction of Coruscant and Kuat made that neoliberal centrist moderate Mon Mothma blanch and so she had those types of craft phased out in favor of something less tainted by a reputation of noble ideologically correct proletarian struggle and righteous bloodshed for the multicosmic peoples of the galaxy in accordance with the precepts of Gerrero-Gulletism.

I would have less of an issue if the movie gave us a sense of why the rebellion was using these bombers. A little setup would have gone a long way to smoothing out the movies many issues.

The Rebels might've had droids in their ranks, we do see that CIS-era commander droid escape with assets in Rebels and he might've contributed in the later wars... but perhaps the Gerrerists disliked them after Generalissimo Bor Gullet grew paranoid during his reign of terror over Coruscant and Kuat, fearing the Med Droids' Plot and persecuting the machines, forcing them to abandon the Resistance and create a Droid Homeland. Yes, this is what happened to Tattooine, and now the droids are building settlement factories that encroach on what's left of Tuskenstinian or Jawastine territory. So no droids.

We see medical droids and even in X-Wing, we see a droid welcoming us to the Flagship Independence so they do use droids for a lot of things. It just strikes me as odd that they wouldn't be more willing to mix the odd wing of Vulter droids into fighter wings or crank out some battle droids from an old CIS factory they refurbished.

I can see the reasons they might not but I feel like they're not strong enough to prevent a desperate group of rebels from using them. Can you see a group like the Kurds turning down an old US Predator drone factory just because there would be some public outcry about them using drone strikes just like the US does?

[Shroom Man 777]

I think it's due to aesthetics and pacing that some of the movies' elements less obviously cohere meaningfully than the OT, like I'm a fattynerd (no bodyshaming intended) and I can like extrapolate, but it's a less obvious jump than "why ridiculous freaking snowspeeders with harpoons = because ragtag rebels."

I think it would have been nice to see her doing that then or even just pitching the idea before she runs off with Poe and Finn. You could have her arguing that they can launch the transports after the first escort goes down only for Holdo to tell her that she has a plan. Then after the second cruiser goes down and Holdo rejects her plan again she's sulking in near an escape pod and stops Finn from running away.

You can even have her admit that her idea would only fool the First Order for a few minutes in a bonding moment between her and Finn.

The weird thing is that if she made the stealth systems, why didn't she mention this potential escape plan to Finn and Poe? Did she stealth the craft under orders without being told that it was meant for an escape mission to Crait?

Uh I just checked Wookiepedia and it has no mention of Rose being the one who stealthed the shuttles. Eh?

https://www.starwars.com/databank/resistance-transport

"On Vice Admiral Holdo’s orders, the transports were outfitted with experimental “baffler” technology to make them harder to detect by enemy sensor scans."

I think the whole tangent about Rose and the stealth systems was moot. I think people just imagined it

I kind of feel like in addition to being too slow for the kinds of missions a resistance movement would ideally be planning they fit more as a First Order weapon. The FO can use them to drop bomblets, landmines, and even space landmines to show how evil they are. Then we can let the Resistance fighter aces cut them down showing the crews inside desperately manning the space door guns and ball turrets to keep the fighters off of them.

Hmmm maybe the bombers were a Gerrerist weapon! This was what Space Curtis LeMay used when he sided with the Gerrerists and started turning Coruscant and Kuat into parking lots! This became symbolic of the more fevrent Resistance fighters compared to the Y- and B-wings favored by Mothma-ites. You say these are more Imperial weapons and you're right if it was for the earlier phases of the Galactic Civil War. Maybe these were introduced when the Rebels or New Republic had to dislodge Imperial fortress worlds!

The die-hard at-all-costs phase of the Rebellion, rekindled in TLJ for a final stand, where the inflexibility of their ideology and credo takes its toll even as they fulfill their purpose in decimating an Imperial superweapon!

We see medical droids and even in X-Wing, we see a droid welcoming us to the Flagship Independence so they do use droids for a lot of things. It just strikes me as odd that they wouldn't be more willing to mix the odd wing of Vulter droids into fighter wings or crank out some battle droids from an old CIS factory they refurbished.

I can see the reasons they might not but I feel like they're not strong enough to prevent a desperate group of rebels from using them. Can you see a group like the Kurds turning down an old US Predator drone factory just because there would be some public outcry about them using drone strikes just like the US does?

You know as well as I do that it's for thematic reasons I mean you could raise the same questions with the OT. Maybe if they used PT-era droid-tech Star Wars holonet DRM will mean that they'll get their asses sued by the remnants of the CIS or Trade Federation. Like Nute Gunray's heir Christopher Gunray or Brian Gunray and a droid named KJ-Alpha and the Gunray estate might bring the hammer down on the Rebels

Perhaps using modified CIS-drones and some kind of anarcho-droid faction would be a nice synthesis of OT and PT but I think it's too far out and daring to expect it in a mainstream blockbuster thing.

[Jub]

I think it's due to aesthetics and pacing that some of the movies' elements less obviously cohere meaningfully than the OT, like I'm a fattynerd (no bodyshaming intended) and I can like extrapolate, but it's a less obvious jump than "why ridiculous freaking snowspeeders with harpoons = because ragtag rebels."

*nods*

The weird thing is that if she made the stealth systems, why didn't she mention this potential escape plan to Finn and Poe? Did she stealth the craft under orders without being told that it was meant for an escape mission to Crait?

Uh I just checked Wookiepedia and it has no mention of Rose being the one who stealthed the shuttles. Eh?

https://www.starwars.com/databank/resistance-transport

"On Vice Admiral Holdo’s orders, the transports were outfitted with experimental “baffler” technology to make them harder to detect by enemy sensor scans."

I think the whole tangent about Rose and the stealth systems was moot. I think people just imagined it

According to wookiepedia that comes from Star Wars: The Last Jedi: The Visual Dictionary. So yeah... It's canon but may not have even been an idea when the movie was being filmed.

Hmmm maybe the bombers were a Gerrerist weapon! This was what Space Curtis LeMay used when he sided with the Gerrerists and started turning Coruscant and Kuat into parking lots! This became symbolic of the more fevrent Resistance fighters compared to the Y- and B-wings favored by Mothma-ites. You say these are more Imperial weapons and you're right if it was for the earlier phases of the Galactic Civil War. Maybe these were introduced when the Rebels or New Republic had to dislodge Imperial fortress worlds!

The die-hard at-all-costs phase of the Rebellion, rekindled in TLJ for a final stand, where the inflexibility of their ideology and credo takes its toll even as they fulfill their purpose in decimating an Imperial superweapon!

Vive la resistance!

You know as well as I do that it's for thematic reasons I mean you could raise the same questions with the OT. Maybe if they used PT-era droid-tech Star Wars holonet DRM will mean that they'll get their asses sued by the remnants of the CIS or Trade Federation. Like Nute Gunray's heir Christopher Gunray or Brian Gunray and a droid named KJ-Alpha and the Gunray estate might bring the hammer down on the Rebels

Perhaps using modified CIS-drones and some kind of anarcho-droid faction would be a nice synthesis of OT and PT but I think it's too far out and daring to expect it in a mainstream blockbuster thing.

I know, both groups should have used droids more. Really everybody in Star Wars ought to use more automation than they do but I think having so many droids you'd lose a lot of the feel so I can live with things as they are. It's just one of those logic gripes that gnaws at you when there are other problems gnawing in similar spots.