Is Right-wing populism beginning to lose steam?

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Is Right-wing populism beginning to lose steam?

Post by The Romulan Republic »

I'm not usually a fan of Macleans, which is a fairly Right-wing Canadian magazine, but the source makes this article's conclusions all the more noteworthy, I think:

https://www.macleans.ca/politics/the-re ... is-coming/
Two political failures less than five months apart offer some hope that the rampant right wing populism we’re seeing around the world today will pass.

First, back in November last year, U.S. voters delivered a noteworthy rebuke to the leadership of President Donald Trump in midterm elections. On March 31, Turkish voters punished their president, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, with a defeat in local elections that many observers here are calling a pivotal moment of change in Turkish politics.

The specific reasons for the losses were somewhat different, but the similarities were striking.

In the lead-up to the midterms, worried about losing their majority in the House of Representatives, Republican candidates leaned heavily on Trump’s popularity with their conservative base. At campaign rallies, Trump was the focus of attention, with candidates taking a back seat to his ranting oratory. It seemed the election was less about local issues and more the Trumpian vision for America and its place in the world.

What was ignored was what mattered most to voters: health care, jobs, declining incomes and a precarious economic future. The Republicans lost the House in a landslide.

In Turkey, the governing AK Party, also concerned about losing control over local politics in its municipal elections, turned to their own popular, and populist, leader. Erdogan embarked on an epic campaign in support of the AK Party’s candidates for mayor in cities across Turkey, delivering as many as eight speeches a day.

Like Trump, he eschewed local issues like Turkey’s deepening economic crisis, rampant inflation or high unemployment. He barely acknowledged the candidates he was supposed to be endorsing. Instead, he talked about the greatness of Turkey, the threats it faced and how only the AK Party, and presumably Erdogan himself, could lead the nation to the global eminence it deserves.

At the polls, Turks punished the AK Party for it. The capital Ankara and the economic hub Istanbul, Turkey’s biggest cities and for years AK Party strongholds, both fell to the opposition People’s Republican Party, or CHP, though the AK Party is challenging the tight results in Istanbul. Other cities that had been under AK Party control fell, too.

In both cases, Trump and Erdogan turned politics into a personality cult. “Erdogan made this election about his leadership and his vision for Turkey,” Ilter Turan, professor emeritus of political science and international relations at Istanbul’s Bilgi University, said. “And now he will have to deal with the fallout of the AK Party’s defeat.”

Is populist leadership failing? Not everywhere of course, but in western democracies at least, the experiment with right wing populism appears to have run into a few snags. With Brexit, Britain’s right wing ideologues have hurtled their country down the path of economic crisis; in Hungary, Prime Minister Viktor Orban’s populist economic policies, including slashing borrowing costs and opening the floodgates to cheap credit, have triggered concerns at the European Central Bank; in Italy, the anti-immigrant and anti-EU coalition government led by Giuseppe Conti can’t seem to get anything done.

Populists in all of these countries, not to mention Trump and Erdogan, bullied their way into office through fear—of immigrants, socialists, liberals or anything else that has the scent of non-traditional values—and have maintained their power through a toxic blend of populist economic policies and keeping up the façade of enemies constantly plotting the destruction of the nations they govern.

What they have failed to do is deliver on the prosperity their nationalist policies were supposed to produce. Erdogan is the longest serving example: When he came to power in 2002, he promised to transform Turkey’s economy. For years he seemed to be succeeding. By 2013, GDP per capita had nearly quadrupled, according to the World Bank. Massive infrastructure projects transformed Turkey’s cities and foreign investors flocked to what looked like the Golden Goose of the emerging economic world order.

But the boom was built of a house made of cards. Much of the economic growth rested on government spending and cheap credit. When the crunch time came, the illusion of prosperity crumbled.

Now, Turkey faces its worst economic crisis in two decades.

The problem, according to Gunduz Findikcioglu, the chief economist at Dunya newspaper, Turkey’s leading economic publication, lies in how ideologically-driven populist leaders like Erdogan and Trump are so enamoured with their own worldviews that they are incapable of digesting contrary facts.

“They have such strong views that they don’t listen to experts,” he says. “They believe they, and they alone, are right. On occasion they may cede to advisors but it usually doesn’t last and they return to beliefs that have no basis in any logical economic theory.”

Erdogan, for instance, has shocked economists by claiming that the way to control inflation is to lower interest rates. Trump has said that tariffs are a net benefit to the U.S. economy but recent data shows they are costing the U.S. $1.4 billion a month.

That disconnect from reality ultimately produces a cost at the ballot box. In the U.S., most economists agree that the real pain from Trump’s economic policies are yet to come. Crises, they say, often take years to emerge after the policies generating them are implemented.

In Turkey, that economic reckoning is now. The loss of Istanbul was especially painful for Erdogan, whose years as its mayor propelled him to the national stage. Under his rule, however, the AK Party and its political predecessors have lost the city for the first time since 1994.

Fortunately for him, there won’t be another election in Turkey until 2023, enough time to right the economic course. But will he? As recently as last week, he again argued that Turkey’s Central Bank needs to lower interest rates to bring inflation under control and blamed the economic crisis on a U.S.-led plot to destroy Turkey through economic warfare, ignoring warnings from business leaders and economists that what Turkey needs most is to reassure investors it is prepared to make the necessary structural reforms to inject predictability into its markets.

Trump has less time. According to economic predictions, the U.S. will face the brunt of the negative impacts of his economic policies in 2020, an election year. It seems unlikely he will shift course before then or, even if he does, if there will be enough time for any shifts to work their way into the economy.

Whether he pays for it at the ballot box remains to be seen but the record of populist leaders suggests he’s in for a rough ride. People will put their ideological beliefs aside when their economic prosperity is at stake, and the only thing populists know is how to push ideological buttons. When it comes to economic levers, they pull with reckless abandon. And they fail.
I'd be wary of getting too optimistic or complacent- the fascists have shown that they have a lot of tricks and a disturbing level of popular support, but there are some grounds for optimism here, I think. Because for all the mythologizing of "ruthless efficiency", would-be strong men tend to be shit at actually governing.
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Re: Is Right-wing populism beginning to lose steam?

Post by Tribble »

Erdogan has a big advantage though- due to his purges he has more or less complete control of the government, and it’ll be easy to clamp down whenever he wants. Plus he’s already challenging the election results in every area that he lost, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the majority of them switch back over to his party. Voting for anyone else is evidence of voter fraud in his view after all.
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Re: Is Right-wing populism beginning to lose steam?

Post by FireNexus »

Too much wishful thinking right now. There’s some shitty later Metallica song that talks about the light at the end of the tunnel turning out to be a freight train. I am too scared to assume this isn’t that.
I had a Bill Maher quote here. But fuck him for his white privelegy "joke".

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Re: Is Right-wing populism beginning to lose steam?

Post by GrosseAdmiralFox »

... no it isn't. Not only that, this is partially fueled by the fact that governments have simply left much of the countries outside of the developing megacities in the dust.

To kill this sort of populism, you'll have to go into some pretty authoritarian territory, force a population and economy equalization -even if it means by the barrel of a gun- across the nations as it were is going to be only one part to the overall solution. Then there is the fact that we've have to force people to give up on certain assumptions and preconceptions as well, which won't go well...
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Re: Is Right-wing populism beginning to lose steam?

Post by The Romulan Republic »

GrosseAdmiralFox wrote: 2019-04-03 02:01am ... no it isn't. Not only that, this is partially fueled by the fact that governments have simply left much of the countries outside of the developing megacities in the dust.

To kill this sort of populism, you'll have to go into some pretty authoritarian territory, force a population and economy equalization -even if it means by the barrel of a gun- across the nations as it were is going to be only one part to the overall solution. Then there is the fact that we've have to force people to give up on certain assumptions and preconceptions as well, which won't go well...
Yes, yes, we are all aware of your fetish for killing freedom in order to save it.

One honestly gets the impression that you want the fascists to do well, so that you have a pretext to push your own fascism to stop the other fascists.

I'm also morbidly curious to know what you mean by "force a population... equalization -even if it means by the barrel of a gun..." Because that sounds an awful lot like a thin euphemism for mass murder/genocide.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

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Re: Is Right-wing populism beginning to lose steam?

Post by K. A. Pital »

Wishful thinking.

Fascists are only getting started here.
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Re: Is Right-wing populism beginning to lose steam?

Post by GrosseAdmiralFox »

The Romulan Republic wrote: 2019-04-03 02:05am Yes, yes, we are all aware of your fetish for killing freedom in order to save it.
... and you simply assume that freedom and rights are static constructs instead of the fluid constructs that they are.
One honestly gets the impression that you want the fascists to do well, so that you have a pretext to push your own fascism to stop the other fascists.
... you think I'm a fascist? Seriously? The fact is that technology has changed the rules and calculus, and to survive you'll have to change with them. If simply recognizing that fact means you're fascist then you have very skewed ideas of fascism.
I'm also morbidly curious to know what you mean by "force a population... equalization -even if it means by the barrel of a gun..." Because that sounds an awful lot like a thin euphemism for mass murder/genocide.
What I'm talking about is literally force the movement of populations and economic power and spread them out, keeping them from centralizing in the now-mega cities. A decentralization of population and economic power as it were. There will be resistance to this, as any forced movement of people will have, but the alternatives are... worse.
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Re: Is Right-wing populism beginning to lose steam?

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Thank you for the clarification regarding population distribution, although I think that trying to turn back the clock on urbanization is both undesirable and a fool's errand, and I fail to see the connection between that and opposing fascism.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: Is Right-wing populism beginning to lose steam?

Post by ray245 »

Even the right-wing is not immune to the election cycle. We've seen counties where people bounce from far-right to really left-wing parties and back and forth.
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Re: Is Right-wing populism beginning to lose steam?

Post by The Romulan Republic »

ray245 wrote: 2019-04-03 12:23pm Even the right-wing is not immune to the election cycle. We've seen counties where people bounce from far-right to really left-wing parties and back and forth.
Well, in many cases, their ultimate goal is to make themselves immune to the election cycle by getting rid of the election cycle. The question is whether they have time to implement those changes before the country "bounces back".
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: Is Right-wing populism beginning to lose steam?

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The Romulan Republic wrote: 2019-04-03 04:34am Thank you for the clarification regarding population distribution, although I think that trying to turn back the clock on urbanization is both undesirable and a fool's errand, and I fail to see the connection between that and opposing fascism.
It is because we have to or we'll get some 'bright sparks' deciding to carry out things like insurrections, terrorism (both conventional and (quite soon) biological), among other things.

Economics determine a lot of the politics, and the areas where the GOP and similar groups are strong tend to be economically destitute with a handful of 'exceptions that prove the rule' as it were (like Detroit).

I'm not talking completely turning back the urbanization clock, I'm looking at basically removing the mega-cities from the equation and replacing them with a whole bunch of smaller cities and larger towns over a wider area.
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Re: Is Right-wing populism beginning to lose steam?

Post by The Romulan Republic »

GrosseAdmiralFox wrote: 2019-04-03 07:18pm
The Romulan Republic wrote: 2019-04-03 04:34am Thank you for the clarification regarding population distribution, although I think that trying to turn back the clock on urbanization is both undesirable and a fool's errand, and I fail to see the connection between that and opposing fascism.
It is because we have to or we'll get some 'bright sparks' deciding to carry out things like insurrections, terrorism (both conventional and (quite soon) biological), among other things.

Economics determine a lot of the politics, and the areas where the GOP and similar groups are strong tend to be economically destitute with a handful of 'exceptions that prove the rule' as it were (like Detroit).

I'm not talking completely turning back the urbanization clock, I'm looking at basically removing the mega-cities from the equation and replacing them with a whole bunch of smaller cities and larger towns over a wider area.
So you basically assume "urban=violence", and from that go to the forcible relocation at gun point of hundreds of millions of people to try to go back to some ideal of small towns?

Oh, and you do know that urban centers (at least in the US) are almost invariably Left-leaning, not far Right?
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: Is Right-wing populism beginning to lose steam?

Post by Zaune »

GrosseAdmiralFox wrote: 2019-04-03 07:18pmIt is because we have to or we'll get some 'bright sparks' deciding to carry out things like insurrections, terrorism (both conventional and (quite soon) biological), among other things.

Economics determine a lot of the politics, and the areas where the GOP and similar groups are strong tend to be economically destitute with a handful of 'exceptions that prove the rule' as it were (like Detroit).

I'm not talking completely turning back the urbanization clock, I'm looking at basically removing the mega-cities from the equation and replacing them with a whole bunch of smaller cities and larger towns over a wider area.
And what part of this grand scheme (which is not actually a bad idea I might add) requires actual coercion, as opposed to putting some money into improving transport links and other infrastructure to create employment and/or start-up opportunities in places that are currently not attractive places to do that sort of thing? People don't pay $1600 a month for a studio apartment they could piss across because San Francisco or Seattle or LA are just that wonderful to live in; they're there because that's where the jobs are. Get some medium-sized businesses in the service sector to move to modest-sized cities in "flyover country" because the rents are lower but there's still good local bus links and it's easy to get a FIOS hookup and potential employees will be moving in before you can say "Holy shit it's just sixty grand for a two-bedroom house!"
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Re: Is Right-wing populism beginning to lose steam?

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The Romulan Republic wrote: 2019-04-03 07:51pm So you basically assume "urban=violence", and from that go to the forcible relocation at gun point of hundreds of millions of people to try to go back to some ideal of small towns?

Oh, and you do know that urban centers (at least in the US) are almost invariably Left-leaning, not far Right?
In this case, it is "urban has all the power, rural doesn't have any power, rural starts fighting because they have nothing left to loose"... and when people think they have nothing to loose, then they'll do everything (including things they wouldn't normally do) to win.
Zaune wrote: 2019-04-03 08:01pm And what part of this grand scheme (which is not actually a bad idea I might add) requires actual coercion, as opposed to putting some money into improving transport links and other infrastructure to create employment and/or start-up opportunities in places that are currently not attractive places to do that sort of thing? People don't pay $1600 a month for a studio apartment they could piss across because San Francisco or Seattle or LA are just that wonderful to live in; they're there because that's where the jobs are. Get some medium-sized businesses in the service sector to move to modest-sized cities in "flyover country" because the rents are lower but there's still good local bus links and it's easy to get a FIOS hookup and potential employees will be moving in before you can say "Holy shit it's just sixty grand for a two-bedroom house!"
The problem is that even if you simply use the carrot solution, it won't be as effective, you'll have to have the stick for those who aren't effected by the carrot, particularly corporations who simply do anything to achieve maximum profit efficiency (and that, sadly enough, means heading towards the megacities and the immediate area of said megacities)...
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Re: Is Right-wing populism beginning to lose steam?

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So who decides who lives where? Because that sounds like it could be the greatest gentrification move ever.
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Re: Is Right-wing populism beginning to lose steam?

Post by Ziggy Stardust »

A useful litmus test for whether you think the quoted article is correct is the upcoming Israeli election. It will be a prime example of how well a right-wing populist with nationalist/extremist rhetoric and ties is able to overcome scandal and legal scrutiny to win an election. Bibi is more low key than Trump and many others, but he has been at a similar game for a long time.
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Re: Is Right-wing populism beginning to lose steam?

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Forgot to put this in my earlier post:

The article reads like a lot from various right wing people over the past two to three years. They bought up the modern Nazi demographic's vote at the cost of giving them a degree of political legitimacy. Now they're having buyer's remorse.
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Re: Is Right-wing populism beginning to lose steam?

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Ziggy Stardust wrote: 2019-04-03 08:54pm A useful litmus test for whether you think the quoted article is correct is the upcoming Israeli election. It will be a prime example of how well a right-wing populist with nationalist/extremist rhetoric and ties is able to overcome scandal and legal scrutiny to win an election. Bibi is more low key than Trump and many others, but he has been at a similar game for a long time.
Also the Canadian elections this fall, although I can all but call those for the Right already, due to Trudeau being an unmitigated fuck-up.
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"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: Is Right-wing populism beginning to lose steam?

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Gandalf wrote: 2019-04-03 08:53pm So who decides who lives where? Because that sounds like it could be the greatest gentrification move ever.
Equations actually, similar equations that can be used to nonpartisan congressional districts.
Ziggy Stardust wrote: 2019-04-03 08:54pm A useful litmus test for whether you think the quoted article is correct is the upcoming Israeli election. It will be a prime example of how well a right-wing populist with nationalist/extremist rhetoric and ties is able to overcome scandal and legal scrutiny to win an election. Bibi is more low key than Trump and many others, but he has been at a similar game for a long time.
Israel isn't really a good litmus test for this sort of thing, especially since the Israeli left shit the bed enough that they lost a lot of their legitimacy (alongside other problems) and the fact that every conflict until the First Intifada had been literally for survival, the infamous 'war of the knife' as it were... and the various Palestinian groups still want to wage a war of genocide upon Israel to this day...
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Re: Is Right-wing populism beginning to lose steam?

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GrosseAdmiralFox wrote: 2019-04-04 01:36am
Gandalf wrote: 2019-04-03 08:53pm So who decides who lives where? Because that sounds like it could be the greatest gentrification move ever.
Equations actually, similar equations that can be used to nonpartisan congressional districts.
Yeah, that doesn't tell me anything. What sort of equations? Have you determined the value of certain occupations in such ways that they can just be geographically spread out verus their value if centralised? And so on.
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Re: Is Right-wing populism beginning to lose steam?

Post by Ralin »

I am very confused why the fuck GAF is talking about implementing what sounds like it would be the Chinese hukou system only with more coercion and less concern for individuals' rights and well-being to stop the rise of fascism by forcibly transferring the population of very large cities to less populated parts of the country because this will solve the problem of people in shitty rural areas committing terrorism and voting for right-wingers because they're so jealous of how much better the big cities are.

Because that sure as hell sounds like the kind of thing that would make me down for some terrorism and insurrection if it was done to me.
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Re: Is Right-wing populism beginning to lose steam?

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Ralin wrote: 2019-04-04 05:34pm I am very confused why the fuck GAF is talking about implementing what sounds like it would be the Chinese hukou system only with more coercion and less concern for individuals' rights and well-being to stop the rise of fascism by forcibly transferring the population of very large cities to less populated parts of the country because this will solve the problem of people in shitty rural areas committing terrorism and voting for right-wingers because they're so jealous of how much better the big cities are.

Because that sure as hell sounds like the kind of thing that would make me down for some terrorism and insurrection if it was done to me.
There is the fact that right now the rural in the current situation literally have no future economically or politically because those powers have gravitated towards the growing mega-cities.

In effect, the rural literally have nothing to loose, and that means for them anything goes. That means they would likely be willing to literally starve the cities (and the world) to death to get their way (and if that doesn't work, well, let's just say it'll get End of the Roman Republic bad in terms of bloodshed).

A forced population and economic normalization/equalization is the least violent choice where the least amount of people die just like having an electronic panopticon is the least-horrifying solution to the proliferation of modern biotech and the ability to create synthetic plagues that equal or surpass those originally created by nation-states.
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Re: Is Right-wing populism beginning to lose steam?

Post by Gandalf »

Or you could just have a better investment in the quality of life for rural citizens, instead of a dystopic power fantasy.
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Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"

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Re: Is Right-wing populism beginning to lose steam?

Post by Ralin »

GrosseAdmiralFox wrote: 2019-04-04 10:13pm A forced population and economic normalization/equalization is the least violent choice where the least amount of people die
Or we could do the non-crazy thing and provide more support and aid for people in shitty rural areas with no economic or political future to move to more prosperous urban areas. Alternately, if we want to toss rights out the window we could use our heavily armed police and military to brutally massacre rural communities that commit terrorism and insurrection or otherwise get out of line. That would probably be unethical, but it would still be simpler, more effective and less radical than massively changing society in authoritarian fashion by stripping people of basic things like the right to move about freely and decide where they want to live.
just like having an electronic panopticon is the least-horrifying solution to the proliferation of modern biotech and the ability to create synthetic plagues that equal or surpass those originally created by nation-states.
What the fuck are you even talking about with this Clancy shit?
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Re: Is Right-wing populism beginning to lose steam?

Post by aerius »

You know you've gone off the rails when applying the Shep Solutiontm is less bad than the proposed solution.
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