You command the Battle of Crait (RAR).

[ray245]

These aren't mutually exclusive. I think by averting JJ Abrams' Abram-isms and the old cliches (that the Abramisms were re-enacting), Rian changed the basis of the settings in interesting manners IMO. The meta-commentary on Kylo and the First Order, of how this portrays both neo-fascism AND fandom toxicity, Luke's Mua'dib-like burdens perhaps also analogous to creators shackled by their own creations (was he hiding from saving the galaxy or writing Winds of Winter ), etc.

I think he didn't burn the establishment down leaving solely nothing, I think he caramelized it and took it somewhere else. More would've been better, yeah I admit. I wish he Jodorowsky'd the fuck out of it. Snoke should've had a golden toilet, when Luke died he should've placed his consciousness in EVERY believer of the Resistance to show that his spirit and the very idea of defiance became one - like when in Jodorowsky's Dune Feyd slit Paul's throat but then everyone's eyes glowed as they chanted "I am Paul."

The problem is we once again get a "big strong empire" vs "underdog rebels", which is a premise I'm really bored off because that's what all the old EU books tries to recreate again and again.

I agree and welcome Rian's developments.

If he "covered it in gasoline and lit a match" then he did so in the fashion of Seth... Freaking... Rollins who is going to face Brock Lesnar this Wrestlemania and defeat him, going into Suplex City to BURN IT DOOOOWWWNNN!!!!

I think it's a case of too little too late. Rian Johnson should be the one directing Ep 7 as opposed JJ Abrams. In his entire career, Abrams has a really bad and personally unlikeable habit of creating a mystery box that can never be opened, but keeps running away like a deadbeat Dad, leaving other writers to sort out his mess.

It feels like a very irresponsible storyteller, someone who isn't interested in ending a story. Now that JJ Abrams is actually going to be forced to end a fairly shitty premise that he created, and if fanboys turn against him, it will give me a sense of schadenfreude.

Rian Johnson is bold for basically telling JJ "Fuck you and your mystery boxes. They mean nothing and you have to conclude a story when your mystery boxes are revealed to be empty inside." Some fanboys can't accept that because they kept felling for JJ Abrams mystery boxes again and again.

[Shroom Man 777]

The problem is we once again get a "big strong empire" vs "underdog rebels", which is a premise I'm really bored off because that's what all the old EU books tries to recreate again and again.

My immediate thinking was actually that without Starkiller Base (which presumably also housed a lot of their fabricators?) and with Snoke's Mega Bommerang blown up, the FO will probably have to rely on their existing capital ships which aren't THAT many, so while they have a numerical advantage those dozens or even hundred+ warships won't be enough to truly solidly control the galaxy and will be stuck running around blowing up resisters before eventually being worn down?

I got the impression in the Battle of Crait, with Kylo's ground forces deploying from either the wrecked dreadnought or from the surrounding capships, that sooner than later the FO's gonna get run ragged, that they're on limited resources. Like, I'm thinking there's quite a possibility that the final film will end with the remains of the Resistance and the remains of the FO duking it out bitterly until the rest of the galaxy gets moved by the Resistance's plight and actually intervene - with all the system defense forces making enough of a difference to bring down the worn out FO assets. Like, this can tie in with Kylo's single minded pursuit over-confident and deluded about their supremacy and heedless of Hux' pleas to consolidate and rebuild and maintain and replenish.

I think it's a case of too little too late. Rian Johnson should be the one directing Ep 7 as opposed JJ Abrams. In his entire career, Abrams has a really bad and personally unlikeable habit of creating a mystery box that can never be opened, but keeps running away like a deadbeat Dad, leaving other writers to sort out his mess.

It feels like a very irresponsible storyteller, someone who isn't interested in ending a story. Now that JJ Abrams is actually going to be forced to end a fairly shitty premise that he created, and if fanboys turn against him, it will give me a sense of schadenfreude.

Rian Johnson is bold for basically telling JJ "Fuck you and your mystery boxes. They mean nothing and you have to conclude a story when your mystery boxes are revealed to be empty inside." Some fanboys can't accept that because they kept felling for JJ Abrams mystery boxes again and again.

I actually agree with this and I think the pacing issues people have with scenes like Canto Bight was that it should've been in Ep 7 along with a lot of other things. IMO with TLJ Rian had to cram in like half a movie's worth of setup because TFA didn't do its job.

My god this is the first time I've ever agreed with you

[Shroom Man 777]

According to wookiepedia that comes from Star Wars: The Last Jedi: The Visual Dictionary. So yeah... It's canon but may not have even been an idea when the movie was being filmed.

Huh that seems tacked on. Be that as it may, Rose and the crew might've made signals reductions modifications based on Hera and Chopper holotube tutorials but as we can see those in charge weren't confident on its persisting front-line stealth usage and barely successfully employed it in conjunction with other subterfuge and at standoff range while compromising the crafts' maneuver and speed capability (or they were already originally slow ass ships, perhaps their limited engine capabilities made them easier to stealth than hotrod vroom-vroom transports... kinda like how those wooden prop planes used by Soviet Night Witches were useful for their limited niche of quiet up close night bombing).

I know, both groups should have used droids more. Really everybody in Star Wars ought to use more automation than they do but I think having so many droids you'd lose a lot of the feel so I can live with things as they are. It's just one of those logic gripes that gnaws at you when there are other problems gnawing in similar spots.

IMO in the PT the mass use of droids and meat-droids (i.e. clones) was because yeah it's actually no shit easy for people even freaking banks to do this, and I think barring the resistance groups and local system defense forces, most of the galaxy just sat down and watched shit happen on TV, being swayed to align themselves with CIS or Republic depending on who they hedged their bets on and how it pans out - kinda like my idea in the other thread wherein war is "outsourced" to transhuman social media influencers reality star supersoldiers.

[FaxModem1]

The issue is that unless the Episode 9 wants to contradict VIII, the First Order is militarily capable of dominating the New Republic in a matter of weeks.

Which as others have noted, seems a bit ludicrous, but then we still don't know what exactly the First Order is in comparison to the New Republic or anything else besides being more powerful than the Resistance, which we saw as painfully pathetic as they only have a few fighters, a few bombers, and three capital ships.

For the needs of the plot, having the Resistance down to three capital ships is necessary so that the average movie goer can count how many they're down to, but it makes Leia's ability to recruit look pitiful in comparison to Mon Mothma's.

[Gandalf]

So larger newer bombers produced in limited numbers are cheaper and more available than the smaller older Y-Wing which was so common the Rebellion had wings upon wings of them? It's not even as if a service life of 56 years is that long in the scheme of things so Y-Wings would probably still be a fairly common craft, especially in poorer backwater regions.

That posits a somewhat consistent availability of the same equipment over thirty odd years, as well as the Resistance's ability to buy said stuff. Based on the total dead air when they call for help at Crait, the Resistance may not be too popular.

Hell, there's also the question of why the Rebellion and Resistance never thought to manufacture battle droids and droid starfighters to augment their limited numbers. As we've seen droid fighters aren't significantly worse than non-Jedi pilots and should be easy to mass produce.

I always thought it to be racism. People like droids, but not well armed ones.

[Shroom Man 777]

The issue is that unless the Episode 9 wants to contradict VIII, the First Order is militarily capable of dominating the New Republic in a matter of weeks.

Which as others have noted, seems a bit ludicrous, but then we still don't know what exactly the First Order is in comparison to the New Republic or anything else besides being more powerful than the Resistance, which we saw as painfully pathetic as they only have a few fighters, a few bombers, and three capital ships.

The NR's central military force got decimated by Starkiller along with the worlds, the fault of the Mothma-ite pacifism and appeasement but inevitable in the post Civil War demilitarizsation. This is why Mon Mothra is a less capable protector than Gerrerazilla IMO. The rest of the systems may be stuck with local defense forces. We also know that the rest of the galaxy is tired of fighting, filled with liberal moderate centrists who might be for the First Order's first amendment free speech rights, or actual FO/Imperial sympathizers and elitists taken over by Hydra agents - enough for the Resurgent ISDs and a few Dreadnoughts to overmatch piecemeal.

[FaxModem1]

The issue is that unless the Episode 9 wants to contradict VIII, the First Order is militarily capable of dominating the New Republic in a matter of weeks.

Which as others have noted, seems a bit ludicrous, but then we still don't know what exactly the First Order is in comparison to the New Republic or anything else besides being more powerful than the Resistance, which we saw as painfully pathetic as they only have a few fighters, a few bombers, and three capital ships.

The NR's central military force got decimated by Starkiller along with the worlds, the fault of the Mothma-ite pacifism and appeasement but inevitable in the post Civil War demilitarizsation. This is why Mon Mothra is a less capable protector than Gerrerazilla IMO. The rest of the systems may be stuck with local defense forces. We also know that the rest of the galaxy is tired of fighting, filled with liberal moderate centrists who might be for the First Order's first amendment free speech rights, or actual FO/Imperial sympathizers and elitists taken over by Hydra agents - enough for the Resurgent ISDs and a few Dreadnoughts to overmatch piecemeal.

Shame that we're not seeing this story of the New Republic's last days as they're being divided over ideology or territory and refusing to join together. Seems like it would be a much better story than what the Battlestar Galactica rehash we got.

[Crazedwraith]

The NR's central military force got decimated by Starkiller along with the worlds, the fault of the Mothma-ite pacifism and appeasement but inevitable in the post Civil War demilitarizsation.

So where is the other 90% of the military and why haven't they rolled up the First Order Fleet?

[Esquire]

The NR's central military force got decimated by Starkiller along with the worlds, the fault of the Mothma-ite pacifism and appeasement but inevitable in the post Civil War demilitarizsation.

So where is the other 90% of the military and why haven't they rolled up the First Order Fleet?

They're stuck in Abrams' mystery box, of course. Nobody could find the key.

[Patroklos]

I am sure that there are Hollywood types that think most of the US military resides in DC, or would be useless if DC was lost.

[K. A. Pital]

What if the NR military was actually full of imperial revanchists and defected to the FO?

[Shroom Man 777]

What if the NR military was actually full of imperial revanchists and defected to the FO?

Or "neutral" apolitical shits and giggles-seeking holo-chanboarders who chortle at the just-kidding Alderaan-jokes and Ewok-slurs of their favorite holonet personalities, average nobodies and mediocrities sitting on their asses all day getting worked up over irrelevant nonsense and imagined legacies they're slavishly devoted to, who get imp-pilled and turned into Human Rights Activists decrying the forced diversity of having women and Mon Calmari calling the shots all of the sudden as part of some agenda and wishing it was like the Good Old Days when Tarkins and Krennics called the superlaser shots and none of these Scruffy Jedi Waifs talking about representation - part of a Cultural Midichlorianist scheme to undermine the good old Imperial days that must be destroyed by FACTS and LASERS

[K. A. Pital]

^ why I still visit the threads here.

[Civil War Man]

What if the NR military was actually full of imperial revanchists and defected to the FO?

I believe there was a book that was written to give some background information on the NR (since the movies so utterly failed at it) that had something similar to this, where one of the main political factions in the NR had closeted FO sympathizers. Of course, it managed to muddy the waters by naming the main NR factions using two real-life political terms (Populist and Centrist, IIRC), but having those terms not mean the same things they do in real life. I've heard it described that the Populists and Centrists were more similar to Jeffersonian Democratic-Republicans and Hamiltonian Federalists, respectively. Honestly, they should have taken a cue from Shroom when he talks about Guerrerist and Ackbarite rebels as a way of distinguishing their ideologies and methods.

All that being said, I sincerely doubt that anything like that will be shown on-screen, since a) the Republic only existed so it could be destroyed and return the setting to good Rebels versus evil Empire, b) for the sake of visual simplicity all of the bad guys are going to continue to be in Star Destroyers and TIE Fighters, and c) Disney brass would probably shoot that idea down since having the Republic military be full of fascists might offend people who, without a hint of self-awareness, will claim that this proves Disney is anti-American (like how Republicans claimed that Lucas was anti-Bush because of how it portrayed Palpatine's rise to power, when Lucas based it largely off of Hitler's rise).

[ray245]

What if the NR military was actually full of imperial revanchists and defected to the FO?

I believe there was a book that was written to give some background information on the NR (since the movies so utterly failed at it) that had something similar to this, where one of the main political factions in the NR had closeted FO sympathizers. Of course, it managed to muddy the waters by naming the main NR factions using two real-life political terms (Populist and Centrist, IIRC), but having those terms not mean the same things they do in real life. I've heard it described that the Populists and Centrists were more similar to Jeffersonian Democratic-Republicans and Hamiltonian Federalists, respectively. Honestly, they should have taken a cue from Shroom when he talks about Guerrerist and Ackbarite rebels as a way of distinguishing their ideologies and methods.

All that being said, I sincerely doubt that anything like that will be shown on-screen, since a) the Republic only existed so it could be destroyed and return the setting to good Rebels versus evil Empire, b) for the sake of visual simplicity all of the bad guys are going to continue to be in Star Destroyers and TIE Fighters, and c) Disney brass would probably shoot that idea down since having the Republic military be full of fascists might offend people who, without a hint of self-awareness, will claim that this proves Disney is anti-American (like how Republicans claimed that Lucas was anti-Bush because of how it portrayed Palpatine's rise to power, when Lucas based it largely off of Hitler's rise).

This is why I really disliked the ST. Instead of exploring the consequences of having a new republic and a new Jedi order as part of the plot, they just want to push it aside for "safe" storytelling.

[K. A. Pital]

Maybe there is a point in the story that nascent republics get destroyed by fascists, though...

[MarxII]

I personally think that would be a fine narrative piece, and a theme which was one of the more enjoyable parts of the old patchwork EU. I do wish we had some establishment of that theme, or much in the way of world-building at all, short of the (in my opinion) tired caricature of the fans demanding a biography of Palpatine's usual barista or some such. But this is hardly an original criticism.