Canada passes new law restricting asylum seekers.

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Canada passes new law restricting asylum seekers.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/refuge ... -1.5092192
The Liberal government is taking steps to stop so-called asylum shopping, but the new provision may turn away only a fraction of the total number of migrants entering Canada outside of legal border crossing points.

Included in the budget implementation bill is a proposed change that would make refugees ineligible to make a claim if they have already done so in another country that the federal government considers "safe" for migrants and that shares intelligence with Canada. Those so-called Five Eyes security partner countries are the U.K., Australia, New Zealand and the United States.

About 40,000 people have crossed into Canada from the U.S. outside regular border points over the last two years. Since April 2017, only 3,150 people claiming asylum in Canada had applied previously for asylum in the U.S., according to statistics provided by the government.

Of those 3,150 migrants, 76 per cent had crossed into Canada outside regular border points.

Some refugee advocates have questioned the constitutionality of the proposed change, since it would limit the legal right of an asylum seeker to a full hearing. They also say a significant change like this should have been subjected to a full public debate, instead of being buried in a budget bill.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau defended the move, insisting that Canadians must maintain confidence in the immigration system and maintaining that every asylum seeker will be treated fairly.

"We need to recognize that there are larger numbers than before because of global instability in terms of refugees," he said Wednesday. "That's why we're putting more resources in and we're also ensuring that the system is fair for everyone. That's what Canadians expect."

The proposed change is part of a $1.2 billion strategy unveiled in last month's federal budget, which funds various federal departments' efforts to tackle the surge in border-crossers and make the system more efficient by speeding up the claims process and carrying out deportations of failed claimants more quickly.

Border Security and Organized Crime Reduction Minister Bill Blair said today that Canada has an obligation to ensure the system works efficiently.

The changes will prevent people whose claims have been rejected already from re-entering Canada and starting the asylum process again. It also will prevent those who already have made claims in another country — one with a refugee determination processes Ottawa considers fair and humane — from seeking asylum status in Canada.

"Those are safe countries and their claim in those countries should proceed. But we don't want them sort of shopping around and making applications in multiple countries," he said. "What we're trying to do is make sure the system is fair and efficient for those who truly do need our protection."

The Canadian Council for Refugees warned the provisions would place many people at greater risk of being sent back to their countries of origin, where they could face persecution.

"The budget bill is no place for substantive changes to the law, especially if, as here, they undermine the basic rights of some of the most vulnerable people in Canadian society," said CCR president Claire Roque in a statement.

"We are shocked that the government is proposing to deny some refugee claimants their voice, the ability to share their story and have a fair hearing."

Blair's office confirmed that people subject to removal from Canada will not be sent to a country where they would be in danger of persecution. In keeping with its international legal obligations, the office said, Canada will carry out a Pre-Removal Risk Assessment to determine if it is safe to send individual migrants to their countries of origin, or whether they should receive temporary protected status in Canada.

These measures have no impact on the Safe Third Country Agreement (STCA). That agreement requires asylum seekers to make their claim in the first safe country they arrive in, unless they qualify for an exception spelled out in the agreement.

The STCA does not apply outside official border points — a provision which has prompted thousands to trek into Canada from the U.S. through farmers' fields and at the Roxham Road border area in Quebec.

The Conservatives have urged the government to close what they call a "loophole," so that the STCA would apply to the entire 9,000 km border. The Liberals have said that plan is unworkable because it would be too difficult to enforce, and would also push people to more dangerous crossing points.

Today, Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer blamed the surge in asylum seekers on Trudeau, who on Jan. 28, 2017, tweeted #WelcometoCanada following U.S. President Donald Trump's immigration crackdown. Conservatives said that sent the wrong message around the world, encouraging people to cross illegally from the U.S. into Canada.

Scheer said important changes to the immigration system require more attention.

Bruce Spence, Amanda Alvaro, Tim Powers and Kathleen Monk debate the government's planned changes to refugee law that will prevent some asylum seekers from making refugee claims in Canada. 9:04
"This is a measure that has been slipped into an omnibus bill that will not be given the scrutiny it deserves on its own," he said.

NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh said the Liberal proposal is "disrespectful to what human beings are going through." He said it's exactly the wrong approach for Canada to take with people fleeing persecution and danger, and given the "unpredictability" of the U.S. administration.

"We need to be suspending the Safe Third Country Agreement, making it easier for asylum seekers to go through the proper process," he said.

In an interview with CBC News Network's Power & Politics, former Liberal cabinet minister Lloyd Axworthy said he is "very disappointed" by the Liberal proposal.

"I think right now people are looking for alternatives to the kind of anti-immigration efforts being made around the world," he told host Vassy Kapelos. "The prime minister in the first election made Canada really a leader. I think issues like this begin to chip away at that."

During the 2015 campaign, Trudeau promised to resettle 25,000 Syrian refugees, and his government surpassed that goal after winning the election.

Border Security Minister Bill Blair says newly proposed changes to refugee law are designed to prevent "asylum-shopping." Former immigration minister Lloyd Axworthy says those remarks are offensive. 3:45
Axworthy called Blair's suggestion that people are shopping for countries where they can claim asylum "offensive."

"They're escaping from terror, from violence, from starvation, from their families being persecuted. Let's stop treating them this way and using that kind of language."

The federal government has said its efforts to reach out to officials in source countries for migrants, such as Nigeria, to get them up to speed on Canada's asylum process have helped slow the influx of some asylum seekers.
I guess there's nowhere that those who are fleeing persecution and death are welcome. Remember the Holocaust, which was proceeded by nation after nation closed their doors to Jews trying to flee Europe? Remember how the world, ashamed of the price of its callousness and cowardice and bigotry, proclaimed "never again"? Once again we see that those were just empty words.

Honestly? I'm more disappointed in Trudeau for this than the corruption allegations, though perhaps I shouldn't be surprised, as its long been clear that Trudeau talks a much better game on helping refugees than he's prepared to follow through on.

Shame on you, Justin. You've already thrown away the public's trust, there's no point in trying to pander to the xenophobes. They won't vote for you, no matter how many innocents you lock our doors to.
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Re: Canada passes new law restricting asylum seekers.

Post by Broomstick »

Given the clusterfucking going on with US immigration and asylum I can't help but think this is unfair to those than have been well and truly fucked over by the Trump administration, which is blatantly trying (and sometimes succeeding) in breaking US law in its treatment of anyone coming from south of the border.

Although the prospect of people crossing that long, open border between the US and Canada - something that has always occurred on a small scale - in massive numbers is something that Canada has to be concerned with.

One problem is the sheer number of people moving around and seeking a safe haven these days, and it's likely to get worse before it gets better. No nation is prepared for, say, a million people spontaneously showing up at the door and pleading "Help us". Some might be able to cope with it, but don't have the mechanisms/systems in place and setting them up rapidly can result in inhumane conditions and bad treatment.

Add in bias and bigotry and yes, it's starting to look like the 1930's again.
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Re: Canada passes new law restricting asylum seekers.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Broomstick wrote: 2019-04-11 04:35am Given the clusterfucking going on with US immigration and asylum I can't help but think this is unfair to those than have been well and truly fucked over by the Trump administration, which is blatantly trying (and sometimes succeeding) in breaking US law in its treatment of anyone coming from south of the border.

Although the prospect of people crossing that long, open border between the US and Canada - something that has always occurred on a small scale - in massive numbers is something that Canada has to be concerned with.
Actually, Canada has long had a policy to treat the US as a "safe third country", meaning that they won't accept asylum seekers coming from the US. Refugee advocates have been pushing to have this policy revoked in light of Trump, but it looks like Trudeau decided to double down instead.
One problem is the sheer number of people moving around and seeking a safe haven these days, and it's likely to get worse before it gets better. No nation is prepared for, say, a million people spontaneously showing up at the door and pleading "Help us". Some might be able to cope with it, but don't have the mechanisms/systems in place and setting them up rapidly can result in inhumane conditions and bad treatment.
The US could cope with many millions, given its size and resources. But the US is run by monsters.

The cost of aiding refugees should be shared evenly between the various first world nations. After all, we're supposed to be allies. But it seems that nearly everyone in power just wants to blame the poor brown foreigners, use them as a pretext for authoritarianism, and pawn the crisis off onto someone else (with varying degrees of bigotry, cruelty, and fanaticism).
Add in bias and bigotry and yes, it's starting to look like the 1930's again.
And when its all over, presuming there's anyone left, will we just hang a few more ringleaders, vow "never again", and then go back to business as usual, secure in the complacent view that such things could never happen again?
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Re: Canada passes new law restricting asylum seekers.

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On one level I can see the point to doing this. It's a fairly standard policy in Europe, because the odds are pretty good that anyone whose application was denied in a neighbouring country had it denied for a legitimate reason; giving a false identity, having outstanding warrants for anything that isn't covered under "political activism", that sort of thing.

But for the love of pumpkin-spice Timbits, does nobody in the Canadian government read the newspapers? Britain and Australia aren't doing a lot better than the US on this, and the former is teetering on the brink of becoming a net exporter of refugees.
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Re: Canada passes new law restricting asylum seekers.

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Zaune wrote: 2019-04-11 05:42am On one level I can see the point to doing this. It's a fairly standard policy in Europe, because the odds are pretty good that anyone whose application was denied in a neighbouring country had it denied for a legitimate reason; giving a false identity, having outstanding warrants for anything that isn't covered under "political activism", that sort of thing.

But for the love of pumpkin-spice Timbits, does nobody in the Canadian government read the newspapers? Britain and Australia aren't doing a lot better than the US on this, and the former is teetering on the brink of becoming a net exporter of refugees.
Yup. The noose is tightening, and soon there may be nowhere left for anyone to run.
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Re: Canada passes new law restricting asylum seekers.

Post by K. A. Pital »

Guys, the First World world and especially the US was like this since time immemorial.

1920s construction boom? Welcome Mexican workers! 1930s depression? Deport millions to Mexico!

There is no genuine humanitarian policy to be had with these people. One of the reasons is that it would require a different social order as well, so that immigrants do not get huddled in ghettos and rent a slave „camps“ where a few unscrupulous contractors rake in cash by abusing hapeless workers.

One may get a „high ground“ for a second but will sell it away in a heartbeat. Politics under capitalism is just SALE OF POLITICIANS. A market. If xenophobia sells, so be it.
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Re: Canada passes new law restricting asylum seekers.

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K. A. Pital wrote: 2019-04-11 06:09am Guys, the First World world and especially the US was like this since time immemorial.

1920s construction boom? Welcome Mexican workers! 1930s depression? Deport millions to Mexico!

There is no genuine humanitarian policy to be had with these people. One of the reasons is that it would require a different social order as well, so that immigrants do not get huddled in ghettos and rent a slave „camps“ where a few unscrupulous contractors rake in cash by abusing hapeless workers.

One may get a „high ground“ for a second but will sell it away in a heartbeat. Politics under capitalism is just SALE OF POLITICIANS. A market. If xenophobia sells, so be it.
True, at least they're not at the point wherein countries are fleeing from them on refugee status, such as the Communist countries of those eras. Maybe they will be, and they'll create their own version of the Berlin wall. We'll have to see.
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Re: Canada passes new law restricting asylum seekers.

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The Romulan Republic wrote: 2019-04-11 05:06am
One problem is the sheer number of people moving around and seeking a safe haven these days, and it's likely to get worse before it gets better. No nation is prepared for, say, a million people spontaneously showing up at the door and pleading "Help us". Some might be able to cope with it, but don't have the mechanisms/systems in place and setting them up rapidly can result in inhumane conditions and bad treatment.
The US could cope with many millions, given its size and resources. But the US is run by monsters.
The US has, at times, brought in groups numbering in the six digits. The Hmong, for instance - despite the country being far more welcoming to immigrants at the time as well as lots of agencies brought in to assist people there were still enormous problems. Likewise, the Lost Boys of the Sudan, despite more experience at bringing in people from extremely different cultures (incorporating lessons learned from the Hmong migration, for example) there were still enormous problems. Yes, they were eventually sorted out but it was still rough going.

Could the US handle millions of refugees suddenly showing up? Yes... for certain values of "handling it". If you think that is a simple task for ANY nation you are sadly mistaken. For that matter Canada has been taking in refugees since before the US even existed yet you've had your own difficulties with it. A sudden, sizable influx of foreigners - many of whom didn't really want to leave home in the first place but felt forced to do so, perhaps fearing for their lives - of a significantly difficult culture, many of whom are going to be suffering from various mental health issues from PTSD to culture shock sufficient to cause physical illness, who may or may not have the language skills needed for the new country, who will need housing, food, jobs... this is not a simple task for any nation. That's why so many refugee camps turn into cesspits. Many smaller countries can't cope with the numbers.

I don't have a good answer since we live in a world where those who COULD take in those millions refuse to do so, and many smaller nations simply don't have the resources for such large numbers, and no one is willing to participate in any sort of scheme to spread the refugees/cost/stress around in an equitable manner.

Yes, I think Canada should have revoke the US's "safe nation" status because I don't think the US is safe for refugees and immigrants at this time. Which breaks my heart but there's nothing I can do about it at the moment other than what I've already mentioned. Which isn't much.
The cost of aiding refugees should be shared evenly between the various first world nations. After all, we're supposed to be allies. But it seems that nearly everyone in power just wants to blame the poor brown foreigners, use them as a pretext for authoritarianism, and pawn the crisis off onto someone else (with varying degrees of bigotry, cruelty, and fanaticism).
Um.. yeah, that's about right. Unfortunately.
Add in bias and bigotry and yes, it's starting to look like the 1930's again.
And when its all over, presuming there's anyone left, will we just hang a few more ringleaders, vow "never again", and then go back to business as usual, secure in the complacent view that such things could never happen again?
Well... some of us are all too aware stuff like that can happen again and IS happening again... but at present I don't have any way to fix the problem even on a local level.
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Re: Canada passes new law restricting asylum seekers.

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K. A. Pital wrote: 2019-04-11 06:09amOne may get a „high ground“ for a second but will sell it away in a heartbeat. Politics under capitalism is just SALE OF POLITICIANS. A market. If xenophobia sells, so be it.
Give it a rest already - this is NOT a feature of capitalism, it's a feature of power. Of having stuff and having the power to NOT share it with other people. Long predates any modern "isms".

Not like the socialist nations of the 20th Century had any better human rights records.
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Re: Canada passes new law restricting asylum seekers.

Post by K. A. Pital »

Yeah but what exactly does Trump win by treating refugees badly?

They won’t take away his property even. They are coming in as cheap, and as unprotected as possible.

So the reasons must lie in the fact xenophobia sells. If something doesn’t sell, it evaporates quickly.

I mean look at compassion. It must be the worst-selling product of all time. Nobody gives a crap about it.
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Re: Canada passes new law restricting asylum seekers.

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The Romulan Republic wrote: 2019-04-11 05:51am
Zaune wrote: 2019-04-11 05:42am On one level I can see the point to doing this. It's a fairly standard policy in Europe, because the odds are pretty good that anyone whose application was denied in a neighbouring country had it denied for a legitimate reason; giving a false identity, having outstanding warrants for anything that isn't covered under "political activism", that sort of thing.

But for the love of pumpkin-spice Timbits, does nobody in the Canadian government read the newspapers? Britain and Australia aren't doing a lot better than the US on this, and the former is teetering on the brink of becoming a net exporter of refugees.
Yup. The noose is tightening, and soon there may be nowhere left for anyone to run.
Not to sound like a total dick, but that actually might be a good thing.

Assholes take over countries when good people run and not fight back.

If there was no where left to run, maybe locals will start fighting back when the next Isis or Taliban starts up, and put them down themselves, instead of running and allowing them to become an international problem.
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Re: Canada passes new law restricting asylum seekers.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Solauren wrote: 2019-04-12 10:04am
The Romulan Republic wrote: 2019-04-11 05:51am
Zaune wrote: 2019-04-11 05:42am On one level I can see the point to doing this. It's a fairly standard policy in Europe, because the odds are pretty good that anyone whose application was denied in a neighbouring country had it denied for a legitimate reason; giving a false identity, having outstanding warrants for anything that isn't covered under "political activism", that sort of thing.

But for the love of pumpkin-spice Timbits, does nobody in the Canadian government read the newspapers? Britain and Australia aren't doing a lot better than the US on this, and the former is teetering on the brink of becoming a net exporter of refugees.
Yup. The noose is tightening, and soon there may be nowhere left for anyone to run.
Not to sound like a total dick, but that actually might be a good thing.

Assholes take over countries when good people run and not fight back.

If there was no where left to run, maybe locals will start fighting back when the next Isis or Taliban starts up, and put them down themselves, instead of running and allowing them to become an international problem.
Maybe. But a lot of innocent people will die first. A lot of refugees are people who can't (or shouldn't be) fighting. Like children. Or members of minority groups that don't have the numbers and public support to avoid being slaughtered in their home country.
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Re: Canada passes new law restricting asylum seekers.

Post by Tribble »

The Romulan Republic wrote: 2019-04-12 03:08pm
Solauren wrote: 2019-04-12 10:04am
The Romulan Republic wrote: 2019-04-11 05:51am

Yup. The noose is tightening, and soon there may be nowhere left for anyone to run.
Not to sound like a total dick, but that actually might be a good thing.

Assholes take over countries when good people run and not fight back.

If there was no where left to run, maybe locals will start fighting back when the next Isis or Taliban starts up, and put them down themselves, instead of running and allowing them to become an international problem.
Maybe. But a lot of innocent people will die first. A lot of refugees are people who can't (or shouldn't be) fighting. Like children. Or members of minority groups that don't have the numbers and public support to avoid being slaughtered in their home country.
Also, what is the population growth rate for refugee countries? If it overall greater than the number of refugees fleeing then the most realistic open must be to stabilize those countries (ya ya I know a lot of the countries are destabilized because of western countries but still)
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Re: Canada passes new law restricting asylum seekers.

Post by Coop D'etat »

The motivation for this is probably more to clear out the obvious loser cases from the extremely over stretch IRB system than any animus against refugees per se, which has become an increasingly obvious problem within the immigration bar. The obvious difficulty on that is the DOJ seems to have lost the ability to craft effective legislation over the past couple decades and this new law seems ripe for Charter challenge and further litigation rather than reducing it.
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Re: Canada passes new law restricting asylum seekers.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Tribble wrote: 2019-04-12 07:14pm
The Romulan Republic wrote: 2019-04-12 03:08pm
Solauren wrote: 2019-04-12 10:04am

Not to sound like a total dick, but that actually might be a good thing.

Assholes take over countries when good people run and not fight back.

If there was no where left to run, maybe locals will start fighting back when the next Isis or Taliban starts up, and put them down themselves, instead of running and allowing them to become an international problem.
Maybe. But a lot of innocent people will die first. A lot of refugees are people who can't (or shouldn't be) fighting. Like children. Or members of minority groups that don't have the numbers and public support to avoid being slaughtered in their home country.
Also, what is the population growth rate for refugee countries? If it overall greater than the number of refugees fleeing then the most realistic open must be to stabilize those countries (ya ya I know a lot of the countries are destabilized because of western countries but still)
I expect that would vary greatly from country to country.
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