EP 9 teaser trailer

[The Romulan Republic]

Here's what a lot of "fans" don't get: To live, you have to grow. To grow, you have to take risks. Sometimes we won't like the results. The whole thing about risks is that they don't always pay off. But that doesn't mean that it was a mistake to take risks, or that the franchise should stop taking them. That way lies nothingness.

Rian Johnson took risks. And he will forever have my respect for that.

[Silver Jedi]

Some reactions as I watched the trailer:

• Of course another desert planet.
• Does Rey not own a change of clothes?
• Is that Rey's new lightsaber to replace Anakin/Luke's? Lol nope, she just fixed the old one. Also, they had to show us the gun Han gave her in TFA. Callbacks!
• What if Tie Interceptor, but with red greebles?
• Look, an a-wing!
• 'Memeber Kylo's mask that he smashed as a metaphor for character growth? Also good as new!
• Lando is literally wearing the same shirt from like 40 years ago.
• Is that one of the fucking medals from the end of ANH?
• Good thing they had some deleted scenes of Leia to use.
• The forest moon of endor is looking decidedly... un-forested.
• 'Member the death star?
• Bringing back Luke, Palpy, and calling the movie skywalker isn't exactly "killing the past", huh?

So, I'm obviously not a fan of the fact that almost every shot in the trailer seems to just be saying "look at this thing from the previous movies we're gonna bring back!"

I also find it interesting that there are a bunch of OT characters in that trailer, but no Rose. If you count Luke and Palpatine, there are actually more named characters from the OT than there are from the ST in this trailer.

Also, no R2. Is he still on Ahch-To hanging out with the lizard nuns?

[The Romulan Republic]

My view of Abrams is that he's a capable director who should probably have never been let near the script.

Edit: I also think they should have had either three directors or one for the trilogy. Having two just leaves one film sticking out like a sore thumb.

They wanted 3 different directors. Kennedy fired one of them.

That still doesn't mean they couldn't have hired someone else to replace him. I'm sure there are hundreds of competent directors who would be eager to direct a Star Wars film.

Hey, here's an idea, why not a female director, since we've got a female protagonist and you've already alienated the Alt. Reichist fans (and a damn good thing too).

I think Abrams is a bad director ( at least someone who is overhyped). There's a few times where he mis-framed his shots, and creating very problematic shots as a result. He reminds me of those overgrown fanboys, and I don't enjoy those kind of storytelling. Abrams is a Steve-Jobs of film-making, essentially someone who is skilled in marketing and building hype, but whether that translates into a quality product after people are able to look at it in a more calmer manner once the hype has died is a whole different issue.

Eh, everyone fucks up occassionally. He has a decent visual flair (no pun intended), casts well, and has my respect for insisting on using real film rather than digital (he's one of the few directors basically keeping the use of film alive).

For people who are very susceptible to hype ( many fans are, given by the reaction about Palpatine in the comments around the internet), Abrams is a director for them. For people that are less so, Abrams will not be a director for you.

That's true to some extent, though we'll have to wait for more info. to say for sure how much its the case.

[Lord Revan]

Though to be honest Palpatine, could be vision or metaphorical manifestation since all we hear is his laugh, we don't see him or hear him speak any new lines.

[Patroklos]

Here's what a lot of "fans" don't get: To live, you have to grow. To grow, you have to take risks. Sometimes we won't like the results. The whole thing about risks is that they don't always pay off. But that doesn't mean that it was a mistake to take risks, or that the franchise should stop taking them. That way lies nothingness.

Rian Johnson took risks. And he will forever have my respect for that.

Can you cite anyone on this board or of relevance otherwise who made a criticism that any risk was attempted, vice Johnson being utterly incompetent in the attempt and yielding shit? Any dipshit can take risks, and it can be hard (and convienient for talentless hacks) to distinguish between a genius who lost his roll of the dice and said dipshit bumbling. In either case though, if the result is shit there is no cause to celebrate.

On this very board TFA was criticized from multiple corners from not being risky enough.

[ray245]

That still doesn't mean they couldn't have hired someone else to replace him. I'm sure there are hundreds of competent directors who would be eager to direct a Star Wars film.

Hey, here's an idea, why not a female director, since we've got a female protagonist and you've already alienated the Alt. Reichist fans (and a damn good thing too).

Because Kennedy, as far as I can say about her decision making, is a very cautious studio president. At the first sign of something negative, she tends to over-correct and swing to the opposite decision to appease people that complained the loudest.

That might work if you are a producer of a single movie, but that is not a good way to run a "cinematic universe".

Eh, everyone fucks up occassionally. He has a decent visual flair (no pun intended), casts well, and has my respect for insisting on using real film rather than digital (he's one of the few directors basically keeping the use of film alive).

I have my issues with his cinematography, and I stated this even before TFA was released. I think he is overly flashy ( the Rey jumping over TIE fighter is just one example of this) and I severely dislike his lack of thought in thinking about the consequences of his shots/framing. He lacks of the more cerebral kind of filmmaking that I enjoy, like a Chris Nolan. Or having the kind of sheer imagination of George Lucas.

I think good directors should be a lot of thought into every frame they put on screen, and I can't see that with JJ Abrams. This is a guy that over-use lens flares and gets overly excited about them like a 5 year old.

That's true to some extent, though we'll have to wait for more info. to say for sure how much its the case.

He's very good at drumming up hype throughout his entire career, often enough hype for a movie to make a decent profit because people realised it is over-hyped.

So I do expect Ep 9 to have a decent opening week at the box office, but I doubt it will perform as well as Disney would have liked. I don't think Ep 9 will reach Avengers: Endgames numbers at the box office.

Can you cite anyone on this board or of relevance otherwise who made a criticism that any risk was attempted, vice Johnson being utterly incompetent in the attempt and yielding shit? Any dipshit can take risks, and it can be hard (and convienient for talentless hacks) to distinguish between a genius who lost his roll of the dice and said dipshit bumbling. In either case though, if the result is shit there is no cause to celebrate.

On this very board TFA was criticized from multiple corners from not being risky enough.

Personally, I would respect someone who dared to take a risk and fail in it than someone who opted for a safe but repetitive storytelling. If someone in the creative industry is unable to be creative, they might be working in the wrong industry.

An artist that don't dare to take risk is a boring, and in my opinion, a bad artist.

[The Romulan Republic]

Some reactions as I watched the trailer:

• Of course another desert planet.

Eh, its a bit tired in Star Wars, but it fits the whole space Western vibe well enough, I guess.

[*]Does Rey not own a change of clothes?

Eh.

[*]Is that Rey's new lightsaber to replace Anakin/Luke's? Lol nope, she just fixed the old one. Also, they had to show us the gun Han gave her in TFA. Callbacks!

That is lame as fuck. And improbable. There is literally no reason to have her use the same saber other than as a fuck you to Rian Johnson (which is petty and unprofessional) and to give the die-hard OT fanboys who hate change a pat on the back (which is uncreative pandering).

Hell, even if you want to copy the OT, Luke built a new saber in RotJ. It was part of his becoming a full Jedi. So all they're doing here is diminishing Rey, unless she makes a new saber later in the film. Personally, I'd have given Rey a green staff saber.

Hopefully this is either a deceptive teaser (which is in keeping with Abrams' approach to marketing) or early in the film with Rey building a new saber for the finale, and they just want to keep the reveal hidden.

[*]What if Tie Interceptor, but with red greebles?
[*]Look, an a-wing!

Eh, pretty ships, not much more to say either way.

[*]'Memeber Kylo's mask that he smashed as a metaphor for character growth? Also good as new!
[*]Lando is literally wearing the same shirt from like 40 years ago.

Yup, this is looking more and more like a Two Hour Hate against TLJ/ apology to the hardcore OT fans.

"We're sorry, we won't ever do anything original again, we swear!" Pitiful.

[*]Is that one of the fucking medals from the end of ANH?

That would actually be a nice call back, if done unobtrusively and in a way that makes sense.

[*]Good thing they had some deleted scenes of Leia to use.

Yeah.

[*]The forest moon of endor is looking decidedly... un-forested.
[*]'Member the death star?

Eh, its just one brief shot. Can't really infer much about the state of Endor from that. Its not Mordor, at least.

If they do canonize the Endor Holocaust, I will be fucking livid.

[*]Bringing back Luke, Palpy, and calling the movie skywalker isn't exactly "killing the past", huh?
[/list]

Bringing back Luke means nothing. We all knew the moment he died he'd be showing up as a Force ghost, and that's in keeping with prior canon. No problem.

Palpatine is ambiguous, at this point, and Skywalker... well, we'll have to wait to see what it means.

But yeah, I think we better hope this is a misleading trailer, because otherwise Star Wars just made a high budget apology letter to the die-hard OT fans for daring to be creative.

So, I'm obviously not a fan of the fact that almost every shot in the trailer seems to just be saying "look at this thing from the previous movies we're gonna bring back!"

I also find it interesting that there are a bunch of OT characters in that trailer, but no Rose. If you count Luke and Palpatine, there are actually more named characters from the OT than there are from the ST in this trailer.

Shit, I just realized you are right. No Rose.

I really hope Abrams didn't quickly kill off Rose. If he took the pandering to the TLJ bashers that far, I will denounce the film as racist and misogynist and refuse to recognize it (or probably the whole ST) as canon. I don't even care whether you like Rose. Quickly killing off the first major Asian character in a Star Wars film, presumably to placate the bashers, after her actor was driven off social media by racist and misogynist harrasment, would be an unforgiveably shameful act. Hell, that might be enough to get me to walk out of the theatre. And shout "Fuck JJ Abrams" on my way out the door.

Even excluding her from the trailer is pretty obvious pandering to racists and misogynists by Disney. Shameful.

Also, no R2. Is he still on Ahch-To hanging out with the lizard nuns?

Wasn't he on the Falcon at the end of TLJ? I assumed Rey took him with her when she left Luke.

[The Romulan Republic]

That still doesn't mean they couldn't have hired someone else to replace him. I'm sure there are hundreds of competent directors who would be eager to direct a Star Wars film.

Hey, here's an idea, why not a female director, since we've got a female protagonist and you've already alienated the Alt. Reichist fans (and a damn good thing too).

Because Kennedy, as far as I can say about her decision making, is a very cautious studio president. At the first sign of something negative, she tends to over-correct and swing to the opposite decision to appease people that complained the loudest.

That might work if you are a producer of a single movie, but that is not a good way to run a "cinematic universe".

I still think you tend to be too quick to put all the blame on Kennedy, but otherwise... yeah.

I have my issues with his cinematography, and I stated this even before TFA was released. I think he is overly flashy ( the Rey jumping over TIE fighter is just one example of this) and I severely dislike his lack of thought in thinking about the consequences of his shots/framing. He lacks of the more cerebral kind of filmmaking that I enjoy, like a Chris Nolan. Or having the kind of sheer imagination of George Lucas.

I think good directors should be a lot of thought into every frame they put on screen, and I can't see that with JJ Abrams. This is a guy that over-use lens flares and gets overly excited about them like a 5 year old.

Hmm. Who do you think would have been better for Star Wars? Nolan, though a fine director, seems too somber to me, and a lot of his work has serious plot issues in the scripts as well. Once I might have said Whedon, but his star has definitely dimmed of late, and in any case his style is so very distinctively Whedon that it can be a bit distracting and out of synch in other franchises he didn't create himself (I noticed this rewatching Age of Ultron recently).

He's very good at drumming up hype throughout his entire career, often enough hype for a movie to make a decent profit because people realised it is over-hyped.

So I do expect Ep 9 to have a decent opening week at the box office, but I doubt it will perform as well as Disney would have liked. I don't think Ep 9 will reach Avengers: Endgames numbers at the box office.

Well, Star Wars will do well because its Star Wars (Solo excluded, anyway), but yeah, its not going to match Endgame.

[Patroklos]

nd of course you put "fans" in quotes while explicitly singling me out, to denote that I am Not A Real Fan because I dare to have a different opinion than you. What's next, accusing me of being a paid Disney plant?

This is what I fucking loath about fandoms, and the Star Wars fandom in particular. The shear poisonous arrogant entitlement that lets random assholes on the internet proclaim that they are the gatekeepers of the franchise, with the right to decree what is and isn't Star Wars and who is and isn't a "Real Fan".

The way I see it, I'm more a fan than you'll ever be, because I actually think that the franchise should be allowed to grow and evolve, rather than living as a stunted homunculous forever eating its own excrement.

No, TRR, I quoted fans to make sure I was distinguishing between the real people who recongnize the franchise as it exists today as a disjointed jumble of directionless corporate products and the near nonexistent group of orc-people you imagine in your daily rants.

The only one gatekeeping who the true “fans” are is you, and its always to designate yourself as some saintly minority who can see the TRUE meaning and brilliance of the newer entries into the franchise. You do this every time you retreat into your mysogony monologues whenever you are getting owned in SW threads. You do it when you claimed fans don’t want risks or whatever other imaginary shit you dream up in the moment. You JUST FUCKING DID IT with that laughable “I’m more a fan than you will ever be.”

And all of this because you are such a snowflake you misinterpreted a blatantly obvious statement to give you max victimhood. Its fucking SW TRR. Its not real. Grow up. I and others can not like a movie without it being a personal existential crisis for you. Have you ever noticed how despite all the people you call sexisists and racists and nazis in these SW threads none of them take your insults as seriously as the non-insult you just blew up about?

Also, again, where the fuck is this “no risks” shit coming from? Quote one person even remotely making this arguement. If you are talking about this board, the people who dislike the ST have been very clear on why they don’t like specific things to include new AND old things.

[The Romulan Republic]

nd of course you put "fans" in quotes while explicitly singling me out, to denote that I am Not A Real Fan because I dare to have a different opinion than you. What's next, accusing me of being a paid Disney plant?

This is what I fucking loath about fandoms, and the Star Wars fandom in particular. The shear poisonous arrogant entitlement that lets random assholes on the internet proclaim that they are the gatekeepers of the franchise, with the right to decree what is and isn't Star Wars and who is and isn't a "Real Fan".

The way I see it, I'm more a fan than you'll ever be, because I actually think that the franchise should be allowed to grow and evolve, rather than living as a stunted homunculous forever eating its own excrement.

No, TRR, I quoted fans to make sure I was distinguishing between the real people who recongnize the franchise as it exists today as a disjointed jumble of directionless corporate products and the near nonexistent group of people of orc-people you imagine in your daily rants.

I did not imagine the massive, organized hate campaign against TLJ (and to a lesser extent the entire ST/Disney era).

The only one gatekeeping who the true “fans” are is you, and its always to designate yourself as some saintly minority who can see the TRUE meaning and brilliance of the newer entries into the franchise. You do this every time you retreat into your mysogony monologues whenever you are getting owned in SW threads. You do it when you claimed fans don’t want risks or whatever other imaginary shit you dream up in the moment. You JUST FUCKING DID IT with that laughable “I’m more a fan than you will ever be.”

I acted on the premise that turnabout is fair play.

I do not reject something as canon because I don't personally agree with it. I don't deny someone is a real fan because they disagree with me. I accept Episode One as canon even though I don't like it. The only things I reject absolutely as a part of canon are major continuity errors (because then its the work rejecting Star Wars, not me), or blatant bigotry.

And all of this because you are such a snowflake you misinterpreted a blatantly obvious statement to give you max victimhood. Its fucking SW TRR. Its not real. Grow up.

"snowflake"? Really? You're going to use one of the most iconic, blatant Alt. Reich buzzwords for smearing people they don't like, and then no doubt indignantly pretend that you aren't an Alt. Reichist?

Boy, I just love how Right wing hacks whine about liberals "claiming victimhood" and how we should just grow up, toughen up, suck it up and stop complaining, when the entire political agenda you support is built on "A woman or minority got something? WAR ON WHITE MEN!!!"

[ray245]

I still think you tend to be too quick to put all the blame on Kennedy, but otherwise... yeah.

I've questioned her leadership from the very beginning because I don't think she is the right fit to run a franchise like Star Wars from the very beginning. Running SW needs to be more akin to a showrunner of a long-running series ( like the showrunners of Star Trek and the MCU under Feige).

Her unfamiliarity with running a franchise like SW ( because she has never been a storyteller in her career despite her extensive producer credits) means she tends to defer a lot of authority to those that dominates SW discussions ( which often happens to be fanboys in their 40s and 50s).

Hmm. Who do you think would have been better for Star Wars? Nolan, though a fine director, seems too somber to me, and a lot of his work has serious plot issues in the scripts as well. Once I might have said Whedon, but his star has definitely dimmed of late, and in any case his style is so very distinctively Whedon that it can be a bit distracting and out of synch in other franchises he didn't create himself (I noticed this rewatching Age of Ultron recently).

James Cameron. His criticism of the new Star Wars movies ( saying they were visually unoriginal) goes to show he really understand why the OT worked the way it did. He won't have aped the OT (visually at the least). But Cameron is too busy building his own sci-fi universe rather than working under Disney.

The other young directors options will be Denis Villeneuve and Alfonso Cuarón. Both of them can be creatively bold , great eye for visuals ( probably some of the most important and underrated attribute needed for a SW director), and competent storytelling. They have also managed big blockbuster projects so they won't be overwhelmed by the scale of the project. They should be the ones directing Ep 7.

The other director I will look at is Alex Garland. A bit of a risk, but he has the visual storytelling abilities and the visual maturity to develop a grand spectacle.

Those are the directors that I feel won't act like an fanboy like JJ Abrams when it comes to directing a SW movie. The fact that Kennedy pass over them and desperately tried to get JJ Abrams ( I guess having connections/nepotism helps in Hollywood) is a mark against her in my view.

Well, Star Wars will do well because its Star Wars (Solo excluded, anyway), but yeah, its not going to match Endgame.

And that is going to be the biggest shame of all. After all the years of hype for a sequel trilogy, by EP 9, a brand new movie franchise can potentially overtake Ep 9 in box office earnings.

ST is still going to make loads of money for Disney because it is Ep 9, but it's a huge and massive squander of potential. And the fandom has themselves to blame. ( All the media journalists that acted exactly like all the fanboys on the internet are also to blame as well).

[FaxModem1]

Initial thoughts:

1. Cinematically, Rey is doing a cross between a western showdown scene and a Kirosawa samurai strike with her lightsaber. Only it's with a TIE interceptor. So, neat.
2. TIE Interceptor is pretty.
3. For whatever reason, Kylo Ren is tackling people instead of chopping them in half.
4. The mask is back, why?
5. Finn and Poe look more like they're going to be in an Indiana Jones movie, as if they're on a quest of some sort.
6. BB-8 has a droid friend who is even smaller than he is.
7. Lando and Chewie, that'll be an interesting dynamic.
8. Is that a racing scene, like the pod-race, only not with pods, or are Poe, Finn, and 3P0 doing some Sahara action and sailing in the desert on a modified boat?
9. That shot of Leia hugging Rey is really pretty. The colors really pop and it looks idyllic.
10. Our party of adventurers is Rey, Finn, Poe, 3P0, BB-8, mini-droid, and Chewie.
11. I think that's the ruins of one of the Death Stars.
12. "No one's ever really gone." Like, we brought Tarkin back and his actor's been dead for decades.
13. Palpatine laugh. Willing to bet that's a force vision/haunting as they scramble around in the guts of the destroyed Death Star in service of whatever plot device they need.

So, I'm willing to bet that this final film is going to be a bunch of our heroes on some sort of quest, for some plot coupon that involves retreading old ground, as a sort of tour of old ground and seeing how the galaxy has changed, or how those events run things.

Could be worse though, Abrams could do what he did with Felicity(the only story he didn't abandon and actually finished), and have Rey time travel to the beginning of the story and redo things.

For the side-topic of fan casting a director for Star Wars, I'm gonna say Brad Bird. Both Star Wars and Brad Bird are fans of romanticism and having larger than life heroes, and such people are special and necessary for the world to survive. That, and his cinematography is almost always solid and beautiful. You just need to make sure the script is good, as the mystery box ruined Tomorrowland.

[Patroklos]

"snowflake"? Really? You're going to use one of the most iconic, blatant Alt. Reich buzzwords for smearing people they don't like, and then no doubt indignantly pretend that you aren't an Alt. Reichist?

Boy, I just love how Right wing hacks whine about liberals "claiming victimhood" and how we should just grow up, toughen up, suck it up and stop complaining, when the entire political agenda you support is built on "A woman or minority got something? WAR ON WHITE MEN!!!"

I really can't improve on the self defeating epicness of this post by TRR. It so perfectly encapsulates every member of this boards critisisms of his posting style and lack of self awareness over years. But in this particular thread, its gold.

[Silver Jedi]

Not to get in the middle of y'all's slap fight, but there are plenty of reasons to hate TLJ that have nothing to do with being a misogynist or a toxic OT fanboy.

I mean, the problems with TLJ were not that it took risks or moved in a different direction or had different themes. The writing was not great, most of the characters were unlikable, and the climax of the film undermined the central themes of the one plotline that was any good.

I'd love a SW movie that tries to take the series in new directions and explore new themes and ideas, but TLJ didn't really do that. It spent a lot of time and energy contradicting TFA, but shitting on the old direction is not the same as forging ahead in a new one. I don't want to see this new movie just spend all it's energy contradicting TLJ any more than I wanted to see TLJ do that to TFA (and the OT).

And as long as we're talking about it, TLJ was terrible in it's treatment of characters played by minorities. The 4 characters played by PoC (DJ, Finn, Rose, and Poe) were all some combination of criminal, traitor, and incompetent. Poe was the incarnation of toxic masculinity, but the rich white women in charge just laughed it off because he's cute so he faced 0 personal repercussions, despite the fact that he personally got 90%+ of the resistance killed. Holdo was the only competent leader that the resistance had, but since the movie is told from the POV of a man who thinks he knows better, she comes off really poorly.

[Patroklos]

Not to get in the middle of y'all's slap fight, but there are plenty of reasons to hate TLJ that have nothing to do with being a misogynist or a toxic OT fanboy.

Silence Nazi. TRR has stated there is only one reason, and you are no true fan if you think otherwise. He is REAL fan you and he sees you.

[ray245]

For the side-topic of fan casting a director for Star Wars, I'm gonna say Brad Bird. Both Star Wars and Brad Bird are fans of romanticism and having larger than life heroes, and such people are special and necessary for the world to survive. That, and his cinematography is almost always solid and beautiful. You just need to make sure the script is good, as the mystery box ruined Tomorrowland.

I won't say Brad Bird is a good choice, in part because he tends to create worlds that can feel a little "cold" and "empty". What Lucas did really well with the 6 SW movies is that he created a sense of a wider galaxy very easily.

Fanboys had dismissed the importance of good world-building in movies due to the backlash against the prequels, but what we end up with is directors that aren't that good at doing world-building. As a result, the worlds in the new SW movies can seem a little limited in scale.

[The Romulan Republic]

"snowflake"? Really? You're going to use one of the most iconic, blatant Alt. Reich buzzwords for smearing people they don't like, and then no doubt indignantly pretend that you aren't an Alt. Reichist?

Boy, I just love how Right wing hacks whine about liberals "claiming victimhood" and how we should just grow up, toughen up, suck it up and stop complaining, when the entire political agenda you support is built on "A woman or minority got something? WAR ON WHITE MEN!!!"

I really can't improve on the self defeating epicness of this post by TRR. It so perfectly encapsulates every member of this boards critisisms of his posting style and lack of self awareness over years. But in this particular thread, its gold.

Not to get in the middle of y'all's slap fight, but there are plenty of reasons to hate TLJ that have nothing to do with being a misogynist or a toxic OT fanboy.

Silence Nazi. TRR has stated there is only one reason, and you are no true fan if you think otherwise. He is REAL fan you and he sees you.

I don't think Silver Jedi is a Nazi, a fascist, or a Right wing troll, I have nothing against him, and he's as much a Star Wars fan as I am. My comments are directed toward you and only you, and I'll thank you not to put words in my mouth.

Look, you stop taking pot shots at me, and I'll do the same. Or we can continue until we both get modded. Your choice.

Not to get in the middle of y'all's slap fight, but there are plenty of reasons to hate TLJ that have nothing to do with being a misogynist or a toxic OT fanboy.

I'm well aware of it, though you wouldn't get that impression given how thoroughly my views are misrepresented, caricatured, and outright defamed on this board.

I mean, the problems with TLJ were not that it took risks or moved in a different direction or had different themes. The writing was not great, most of the characters were unlikable, and the climax of the film undermined the central themes of the one plotline that was any good.

Opinions may vary. I liked most of the characters. You could probably make the case that the plot undermined itself, because TLJ is ambiguous about a lot of stuff and relies on misdirection, but it would help to know what exactly you are referring to.

I'd love a SW movie that tries to take the series in new directions and explore new themes and ideas, but TLJ didn't really do that. It spent a lot of time and energy contradicting TFA, but shitting on the old direction is not the same as forging ahead in a new one. I don't want to see this new movie just spend all it's energy contradicting TLJ any more than I wanted to see TLJ do that to TFA (and the OT).

And as long as we're talking about it, TLJ was terrible in it's treatment of characters played by minorities. The 4 characters played by PoC (DJ, Finn, Rose, and Poe) were all some combination of criminal, traitor, and incompetent. Poe was the incarnation of toxic masculinity, but the rich white women in charge just laughed it off because he's cute so he faced 0 personal repercussions, despite the fact that he personally got 90%+ of the resistance killed. Holdo was the only competent leader that the resistance had, but since the movie is told from the POV of a man who thinks he knows better, she comes off really poorly.

Wow, you like Holdo? I thought I was the only one here.

I don't think the portrayal of minority characters was that bad. Finn and Rose's mission should never have happened, but it wasn't their fault it all fell apart, and I personally find both likeable enough. Poe was a dick, but he got some character growth at the end, as did Finn.

DJ was an asshole yeah, but I like him as a deconstruction of "Both Sides" cynicism.

[Silver Jedi]

Opinions may vary. I liked most of the characters. You could probably make the case that the plot undermined itself, because TLJ is ambiguous about a lot of stuff and relies on misdirection, but it would help to know what exactly you are referring to.

The entire movie is saying that you don't have to be the chosen one to be a hero, and that the true strength of the jedi was about their connection to life, not lifting rocks with your mind.

Then the climax of the movie is all the normies failing to anything useful and the jedi coming and bailing them out by literally lifting rocks.

Wow, you like Holdo? I thought I was the only one here.

Sure. She inherits a situation that leia and Poe royally fucked up, and basically fixes it. Her plan looses 3 capital ships, but otherwise saves the entire resistance and makes the FO think that they've wiped them out - perfect guerrilla warfare. Except, Poe et. al. fuck that up, tip the FO off to what's happening, and get almost the entire resistance killed. And like I said, because you're viewing things in the fleet from the pov of Mr toxic masculinity, almost all viewers miss all that and just think holdo is a fuckup for not sharing her plan with Poe. The fact that the vast majority of viewers don't like holdo isn't a failure of the character, it's a failure of story telling.

I don't think the portrayal of minority characters was that bad. Finn and Rose's mission should never have happened, but it wasn't their fault it all fell apart, and I personally find both likeable enough. Poe was a dick, but he got some character growth at the end, as did Finn.

Finn and rose's mission should never have happened. The only reason a janitor and plumber were sent off with 0 support on a vital mission was because Poe is an massive asshole. Two grunts brought a technical "revelation" to a high ranking officer. Instead of passing this vitally important information up the chain, he sent said grunts on a mission they were not qualified for, and they predictably fuck it up in the worst way possible.

Rose and Finn should never have been on that mission, and it shows because they fucked it royally. They never found their contact because they were arrested.... for parking violations. They landed their shuttle on a tourist beach, and a guy even yelled at them that they weren't supposed to park there. It's like james bond blowing his cover by parking his aston martin on the lawn of a casino. Then, the second time they get caught, it's because they thought an upside down trash can was sufficient disguise for BB-8. In between their two arrests, they recrut a career criminal who predictibly betrays them as soon as they get him arrested with them. The whole thing is a mess, but it is 100% due to their incompetence which, yeah, does ultimately fall on Poe's shoulders.

DJ was 100% fine as a character, I liked him even. But again, one of 4 PoC in the move happens to be the criminal who betrays the heroes... not a good look.

[Ralin]

I'm guessing that the 'rise of Skywalker' thing is referring to 1) Luke's legend taking off again after the end of the last movie 2) Rey metaphorically becoming the new Luke Skywalker or 3) some combination of both.

Or maybe we'll get lucky and the writers have finally decided to go with something like my idea of having twin clones of Vader, one good and one evil and having Good Vader wear solid white armor to show that he's the hero and teaming up with Jar Jar to have wacky adventures together. And Jar Jar would have a lighthelmet, which is like a lightsaber only it's a helmet, and go around head-butting people to death while shouting for them to harden the fuck up. That would be great.

And as long as we're talking about it, TLJ was terrible in it's treatment of characters played by minorities. The 4 characters played by PoC (DJ, Finn, Rose, and Poe)

Poe(‘s actor) wasn’t white?

[Vympel]

Wow, some of the takes here are salty.

To clear some things up:

- No, its not a TIE Interceptor, it's a modified/updated version of Ben's TIE Silencer fighter from TLJ.



- Luke's repaired lightsaber. Seriously, no one expected it to be repaired? There's a reason Rey took it with her. I am disappointed that the crystal shattered but it somehow still has a solid blue blade, though.

- It's obviously Death Star wreckage. I mean come on.



Why? I don't know. We'll see.

I'm skeptical about the thing about Palpatine being somehow 'back'. This has been confirmed at this point (Ian McDiarmid came out on stage after the trailer, ffs) but if he's simply the villain now I'll be very disappointed. But Ian McDiarmid is a lot of fun, and easily one of the best parts of the prequels.

There's an ISD Mk 1 in the trailer painted in Venator-type colors. Very, very cool idea.





Resistance Star Destroyer, pulled out of mothballs to fight for the goodguys? Hope so!

The entire movie is saying that you don't have to be the chosen one to be a hero, and that the true strength of the jedi was about their connection to life, not lifting rocks with your mind.

Then the climax of the movie is all the normies failing to anything useful and the jedi coming and bailing them out by literally lifting rocks.

Luke's lesson was about the nature of the Force, about it not being a 'power' that belongs to the Jedi, not dismissing the fact that, you know, being able to lift rocks is useful.

Further, 'the normies' would've all been killed if Poe hadn't realised that there had to be another way out.

[Vympel]

Mod mode:

Off-topic political rhetoric will cease. And no more sniping at posters with content free attacks on their politics or posting-style. Talk about the damn movie. Stop making this discourse so goddamn awful. This is the only warning.

[Ralin]

Oh yeah, I'm intrigued by the idea that Palpatine will be in it. Could just be flashbacks or Force Ghost stuff, but having him as the actual villain would be cool. Dark Empire had a great premise and I'd like to see it used well for a change.

[Vympel]

That is lame as fuck. And improbable. There is literally no reason to have her use the same saber other than as a fuck you to Rian Johnson (which is petty and unprofessional) and to give the die-hard OT fanboys who hate change a pat on the back (which is uncreative pandering).

There's zero evidence that JJ Abrams and Rian Johnson have that sort of toxic, reactive relationship. That's projecting the worst parts of internet fan culture onto creative collaborators, there's no need to think that way.

I loved TLJ and I thought Rey would repair Luke's saber. You should consider the possibility that JJ Abrams thought the exact same way.

Further, you should watch the Star Wars Celebration panel. Stephen Colbert asked Rey if she repairs Luke's lightsaber or makes a new one, and she gave an engimatic answer: "my answer is not the end of the story, but Luke's lightsaber lives." So there's probably a bit more to it than her just fixing it and using it.

Some reactions as I watched the trailer:
[*]Does Rey not own a change of clothes?

Err - she's had four outfits:

- Jakku outfit
- Resistance / Ach'to outfit
- Supremacy outfit
- RoS outfit.

None of the outfits are the same. Most obviously, her RoS outfit is white.

[FaxModem1]

For the side-topic of fan casting a director for Star Wars, I'm gonna say Brad Bird. Both Star Wars and Brad Bird are fans of romanticism and having larger than life heroes, and such people are special and necessary for the world to survive. That, and his cinematography is almost always solid and beautiful. You just need to make sure the script is good, as the mystery box ruined Tomorrowland.

I won't say Brad Bird is a good choice, in part because he tends to create worlds that can feel a little "cold" and "empty". What Lucas did really well with the 6 SW movies is that he created a sense of a wider galaxy very easily.

Fanboys had dismissed the importance of good world-building in movies due to the backlash against the prequels, but what we end up with is directors that aren't that good at doing world-building. As a result, the worlds in the new SW movies can seem a little limited in scale.

I would disagree, as both The Incredibles and Ratatouille seemed like living warm worlds with other stories to tell. And Tomorrowland did seem to have a world that we were only on the cusp of seeing, and missing a lot of. But we saw a lot of worldbuilding with all of those.

[Ender]

Not at all impressed but it is a teaser trailer. Big question: where the fuck is Rose?

Also, why is Kyle Ren hitting a knight of Ren with a Rock Bottom?

They wanted 3 different directors. Kennedy fired one of them.

Probably the right call. Trevverow is really bad. Looking at the rest of his body of work, Safety Not Guaranteed seems to be the odd man out.

I think the fact he is the (uncredited) writer for the script for 9 is going to have a lot of negative ripples, based off how shitty he has been when he plays fanboy before

Hmm. Who do you think would have been better for Star Wars? Nolan, though a fine director, seems too somber to me, and a lot of his work has serious plot issues in the scripts as well. Once I might have said Whedon, but his star has definitely dimmed of late, and in any case his style is so very distinctively Whedon that it can be a bit distracting and out of synch in other franchises he didn't create himself (I noticed this rewatching Age of Ultron recently).

I still want to see a Guillermo Del Toro Star Wars film. Just let him go nuts. Lucy Besson could be cool too, or Denis Villeneuve.

And for shits and giggles, I want the Cohen brothers to redo the ANH cantina scene. Tight camera focus, baiting stories as the showdown builds, Han shoots first.