Notre Dame Cathedral is on fire

[EnterpriseSovereign]

France's iconic Notre-Dame Cathedral is burning, according to social media posts from Paris which show the building shrouded in smoke.

Dozens of images showing smoke billowing from the cathedral have been shared on Twitter, with one user saying the fire "seems to have started on the scaffolding".

One video posted on social media showed huge plumes of smoke casting a shadow over Paris while another video showed flames coming from the base of the medieval church's spire, which is undergoing renovation.

One Twitter user claimed the building "has been on fire for about 20 mins now...and the fire department cannot get close enough to fight it".

Notre-Dame Cathedral fire: Iconic building in flames.

[FaxModem1]

I wanted to see it in my lifetime. Now I fear I never will...

[Elheru Aran]

One good thing about stone buildings... even if the wooden roof burns, they can be propped up and rebuilt. That said, this is still terrible.

[The Romulan Republic]

I've been there. It was beautiful. Its stood for hundreds of years. This is an unthinkable tragedy.

I wanted to see it in my lifetime. Now I fear I never will...

As Elheru Aran said, it will almost certainly be rebuilt/restored whatever the cost, given its enormous historical and cultural significance (and, more cynically, the tourist revenue it brings in). Nonetheless, a great deal of beautiful artwork will likely be irreparably destroyed.

Just please let it be an accident and not arson.

[Agent Fisher]

Stone building, but the frame is all wood... Reportedly the roof has collapsed.

[FaxModem1]

I've been there. It was beautiful. Its stood for hundreds of years. This is an unthinkable tragedy.

I wanted to see it in my lifetime. Now I fear I never will...

As Elheru Aran said, it will almost certainly be rebuilt/restored whatever the cost, given its enormous historical and cultural significance (and, more cynically, the tourist revenue it brings in). Nonetheless, a great deal of beautiful artwork will likely be irreparably destroyed.

Just please let it be an accident and not arson.

My sig seems especially appropriate today.

[aerius]

Spire down, roof down, entire frame on fire. Chances are it's going to burn to the ground.

Live link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGbmWOfdXcQ

Latest report is most of the cathedral is destroyed.

[Ziggy Stardust]

They've already been renovating the structure for several years because cracks had started to form in the stone. They were already afraid it was unstable. Now with how bad this fire is, it seems rather likely the whole thing will be lost.

[The Romulan Republic]

Spire down, roof down, entire frame on fire. Chances are it's going to burn to the ground.

Live link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGbmWOfdXcQ

Latest report is most of the cathedral is destroyed.

God.

I'd hoped to go back there.

Well, I'll pray that as much as possible can be recovered, for all the good it will do.

[FaxModem1]

Apparently a lot of artifacts are already being consumed in the fire. No full list as of yet.

[Jub]

Shitty news to be sure.

The only solace is that unlike, say 100 years ago, we have records of the building and its contents so we can at least record the items we can now no longer preserve. The sorrow is that we could have done much better in the future.

[The Romulan Republic]

All things end. All things change.

But sometimes, you really wish they wouldn't.

[aerius]

One good thing about stone buildings... even if the wooden roof burns, they can be propped up and rebuilt. That said, this is still terrible.

It's not quite like that. Problem with large Cathedrals is the roof is made of lead and supported by a forest worth of timber. Then you have the pews, interior supports, and lots of other things that are also made of wood. Once the roof goes down, you literally have rivers of molten lead flowing over everything inside & out, anything flammable goes up in flames, and with the amount of fuel in there you get a blast furnace effect with enough heat to start cracking all the stone apart.

[The Romulan Republic]

Note that there is precedent for rebuilding a cathedral that suffered catastrophic fire damage. Some cathedrals were repaired/rebuilt following catastrophic bomb damage in WW2, including Reims Cathedral (also in France):

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europ ... ation-work

But a lot of the original artwork and artifacts will be gone forever.

[Starglider]

It's not quite like that. Problem with large Cathedrals is the roof is made of lead and supported by a forest worth of timber. Then you have the pews, interior supports, and lots of other things that are also made of wood. Once the roof goes down, you literally have rivers of molten lead flowing over everything inside & out, anything flammable goes up in flames, and with the amount of fuel in there you get a blast furnace effect with enough heat to start cracking all the stone apart.

The solution is of course to (re)build the structure out of reinforced concrete with a thin stone veneer.

[madd0ct0r]

Point of order. Those sagrada famila spires are prestressed stone, not concrete "with a thin veneer".

Lower bits are reinforced concrete and stone. Not veneer.

And concrete aint great under fire either.

[Tribble]

I admit I have mixed feelings on this.

On the one hand I am very much saddened by the loss of such a irreplaceable historical and cultural treasure. On the other hand the atheist in me feels that at the end of the day this building was little more than a symbol of the decadence of an oppressive religion and was built at great time and expense for little more reason than to worship an imaginary being. Best use of resources and manpower at the time it was not IMO. Yes yes it’s made more than enough back over the centuries, but still...

So while I do mourn its loss I am rather iffy on whether or not it should be rebuilt as opposed to building something else on the site, and what the site should be used for. It may be worth it just on economic side of things due to the amount of tourism it generated. And from a historical and culturally perspective I could see why many would want it rebuilt.

[Broomstick]

Roof down, inferno in the cathedral, and now there is fire in the belltowers. As I recall from my visit, the stairs to the towers are stone up to the level of the facade where the base of the towers begin. In the towers above the rest of the facade they are wood. The structure supporting the bells is wood and rope. The bells are tons of bronze each. This... is not good.

They might be able to rebuild from records and plans but so much history will be gone forever.

And those of you going on about it being a tourist attraction... yes, it was. It was also a working church, not a museum. And also a historical artifact and symbol of both Paris and France. It was a lot of things all at once.

[The Romulan Republic]

I admit I have mixed feelings on this.

On the one hand I am very much saddened by the loss of such a irreplaceable historical and cultural treasure. On the other hand the atheist in me feels that at the end of the day this building was little more than a symbol of the decadence of an oppressive religion and was built at great time and expense for little more reason than to worship an imaginary being. Best use of resources and manpower at the time it was not IMO. Yes yes it’s made more than enough back over the centuries, but still...

So while I do mourn its loss I am rather iffy on whether or not it should be rebuilt as opposed to building something else on the site, and what the site should be used for. Though it may be worth it just on economic side of things due to the amount of tourism it generated. And from a historical and culturally perspective I could see why many would want it rebuilt.

It brings joy and beauty to the lives of millions. And it is a piece of a bygone era of history, a priceless historical artifact. Who cares if the being it was originally built to honor exists or not?

And yes, from a purely utilitarian perspective, in the long run it will probably bring France more money than it costs to restore it. I read (over in the Spacebattles thread on the fire) that it brings in an average of around 30,000 tourists a day.

And, like Broomstick said, its a working church, though that is probably not the most persuasive argument for an atheist.

[Broomstick]

It was a working church, a testament to medieval craftsmanship, a historical artifact, and a thing of beauty... all past tense.

[The Romulan Republic]

So the inside is completely gutted. At best, the outer walls will still be there, but it'll take years to restore it, and pretty much anything on the inside will be lost. Even if it can be recreated from records, the original will be lost. An irreplaceable loss.

[Tribble]

So the inside is completely gutted. At best, the outer walls will still be there, but it'll take years to restore it, and pretty much anything on the inside will be lost. Even if it can be recreated from records, the original will be lost. An irreplaceable loss.

And this is why I do question whether or not it should be rebuilt. It and it’s contents are gone, and are irreplaceable. Is it going to be worth it to remake a copy of what’s lost, or should they consider doing something else with the site?

Look I get the historical, cultural and even monetary significance of it, but it’s gone now and I think it’s worth at least considering all the options.

And as you can guess I don’t believe that whatever happens it must continue to be a place for worshiping a fictional deity.

Edit: and ya I can get why my viewpoint might upset people and that it may be wrong, it’s just the way I feel about it.

[Zaune]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1117868188534919170

GCSE French was a long time ago, but apparently the relics and other historical artefacts are safe: Most of them were in stotrage for safekeeping during the renovations and the rest were retrieved before the fire crews had to withdraw.

[Starglider]

And concrete aint great under fire either.

Modern reinforced concrete (with minimal voids and residual water content) is the safest generally available material, certainly much safer than steel frame construction which regularly collapses in industrial fires. Standard mid-rise building construction in Europe is R/C core + span deck which easily achieves a 2 hour compartmentalisation rating even in the absence of active suppression. Enough heat will eventually crack the concrete and soften the reinforcement, but it takes a huge amount of fuel which the structure itself is not contributing to. The was recently demonstrated in the UK by the structure of Greenfell Tower remaining intact despite being literally wrapped in fuel and filled with kindling. Horrible as that fire was, it would have been much worse if the building used steel or wood structure.

[The Romulan Republic]

Best news I've heard all day.

So the inside is completely gutted. At best, the outer walls will still be there, but it'll take years to restore it, and pretty much anything on the inside will be lost. Even if it can be recreated from records, the original will be lost. An irreplaceable loss.

And this is why I do question whether or not it should be rebuilt. It and it’s contents are gone, and are irreplaceable. Is it going to be worth it to remake a copy of what’s lost, or should they consider doing something else with the site?

Look I get the historical, cultural and even monetary significance of it, but it’s gone now and I think it’s worth at least considering all the options.

And as you can guess I don’t believe that whatever happens it must continue to be a place for worshiping a fictional deity.

Even if its (at best) some of the original walls mostly filled with replicas of what used to be there, that will have more significance to people (and, cynically, be of greater economic value) than a completely new building on the same site would be.