Columbia professor's anti-american Rant

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2003-03-31 04:15pm

What I want to know is how this guy got out of the damn' lecture hall without fists being thrown.

Because he was speaking before a friendly audience instead of at the local VFW.

I guess he's not so stupid (or suicidal) after all.

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2003-03-31 04:16pm

My friend's father was present and he was fairly steaming. He's a rather anti-war academian as well.

I refuse to believe that everyone present was so far gone as to fully agree with this man.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2003-03-31 04:21pm

Seriously though, anti war academics aren't known for resorting to fisticuffs to settle differences of opinion.

Pity...

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-03-31 04:29pm

theski wrote:Durandal, Your right the only way to defend anything is to use a gun I take you have never heard of "a fiqure of speech" BTW do you ever take a stand on this or do your prefer to snipe from the side..

Oh give me a break, you asinine little twat. Let's give you a refresher course in what you said, shall we?

YOU wrote:BTW Queeb, Don't you think its a little Ironic.. Your statement , since you will not pick up a gun to defend anyone....

Queeb implied that he would defend someone's right to say what they wished to the death. You implied that this requires a gun. I told you that you were full of shit. Now you're backpedaling with this "figure of speech" bullshit. Fine, feel free to weasel out of your comments however you choose.

theski · Post by **theski** » 2003-03-31 04:34pm

Durandal, You can call me a little Twat, once you drag your sorry ass out of collage and join the real world.. I was refering to his stated Pacifist stance and how that relates to his quote.. Get over yourself your not that smart..

Queeb Salaron · Post by **Queeb Salaron** » 2003-03-31 04:39pm

theski wrote:Durandal, You can call me a little Twat, once you drag your sorry ass out of collage and join the real world.. I was refering to his stated Pacifist stance and how that relates to his quote.. Get over yourself your not that smart..

A) It's "college."

B) Durandal is more than intelligent enough to counter your "real-world" stances on certain issues. And he did so effectively, as he has done more than once, IIRC. ::Shrugs:: Sorry, pal, you made an ass of YOURSELF. Call it misinterpretation or plail ol' lack of brain-mouth connection; whatever the reason, Durandal's logic is correct and yours is flawed. That's the way the world turns.

...and no, I'm not just saying that because he and I had the same opinion... this time...

Queeb Salaron · Post by **Queeb Salaron** » 2003-03-31 04:41pm

Besides, that wasn't my quote. I simply stated a quote that reminded me of what other people had said previously. Simple as that. Read it again, if you like.

theski · Post by **theski** » 2003-03-31 04:44pm

Fine... Point conceded to both you and Durandal

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2003-03-31 05:02pm

Argumentum ad hominem (of which "you're in college so your argument doesn't count" is a fine example) is still a fallacy last I checked.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-03-31 05:03pm

I'll let your last post go because I don't want this thread turning into a flame war.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2003-03-31 05:38pm

Iceberg wrote:Argumentum ad hominem (of which "you're in college so your argument doesn't count" is a fine example) is still a fallacy last I checked.

Actually the college comment looks to only apply to Durandal calling him names.

Theski wrote:Durandal, You can call me a little Twat, once you drag your sorry ass out of collage and join the real world..

So once he's out of college he can call him "Twat" all he likes.

He didn't say anything one way or another about "asinine" though?

Durandal wrote:I'll let your last post go because I don't want this thread turning into a flame war.

I would think letting it go would mean letting it go without comment but I guess it's good just the same.

Alex Moon · Post by **Alex Moon** » 2003-03-31 10:28pm

Durandal wrote:
Alex Moon wrote:Do you have evidence that dissenting viewpoints are being suppressed?
See the PATRIOT act. While I haven't heard of any arrests being made for violating it, it criminalizes the exercising of free speech, so you could very well be arrested if you say the wrong thing. Ice, like me, is just pissed off about being associated with fringe lunatics like this just because he's not pro-war (if memory serves), and that all anti-war people are labeled as "peaceniks," "fucking hippes," "anti-American," "unpatriotic" or whatever asinine stupidity the more rabid (and even some more reasonable) pro-war people wish to dish out. See my signature quote for a full explanation.

And I've seen anti-war protesters who reply to any criticism of their viewpoints, or negative reaction from the public/media as "violations" of their freedom of speech. I tend to get annoyed when I hear. My problem with Iceberg's comment was that he suggested that since 9/11, large numbers of protesters were being silenced by accusations of treason. While I disagree with a large portion of the Patriot Act, I have yet to see it or anything else used by the government to silence people who support unpopular views. The only accusations of treason I've seen are from pretty extreme right-wing supporters of the war. If these people want to make statements like this, they have as much free speech as the professor to do so. Only the government can force you to shut up. The most anyone else can do is ignore you or tell you what they think in response.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-03-31 11:28pm

Well, one good thing about an idiot like this professor is that he clarifies the meaning of the term "anti-American". It grows tiresome for that term to be over-used, which has most definitely been the case lately. However, this guy is truly anti-American. It's hard to believe this moron actually said that he wishes for more disastrous clusterfucks like Mogadishu.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-03-31 11:34pm

Tsyroc wrote: I would think letting it go would mean letting it go without comment but I guess it's good just the same.

No, letting it go means I won't flame him back.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-04-01 12:19am

Another day, another reason to question why people in the military put up witrh shit from people like that.

Post by **Edi** » 2003-04-01 12:56am

Ender, maybe because the military's job is to defend the nation, and that also means morons like the professor. They might not like what he says, but job description and all that.

Now everyone, excuse me while I hijack the thread for a while, because there was something earlier that I just can't let pass.

Stravo, the following rant is for you. I've almost posted it earlier, but held off. It's nothing personal, but something that I just have to get off my chest. Hope you don't mind?

I really get tired of the way you just lump every liberal in one giant overcategory and proceed to bash them all as nitwits and idiots, saying that only conservative viewpoints have any merit. Do you want the favor returned, because I can get pretty vitriolic if I feel so inclined. Yes, the professor is a complete and utter fuckwit. Yes, lots of people who come out of college have somehow managed to turn much of their common sense off (happens here too), and they'll learn better by observing others run headfirst into wall or doing so themselves, but it does not automatically invalidate all liberal viewpoints. I call myself a liberal and I have just as little or even less patience for the anarcho-communist pinko-hippie types (e.g. De Genova) that most (conservative) Americans call practically all liberals.

I don't go around calling all conservatives goose-stepping brown-shirt fascisto-Nazis, even though there is a fringe that does fit that description too. There are quite a few worthwhile conservative approaches, just as there are intelligent liberal approaches, and a forced division into two serves nobody. Whatever the hell happened to being moderate?

From the outside it seems that American politics is just a complete clusterfuck with two parties screaming at each other and rejecting out of hand anything the other proposes just because they proposed it, whether or not it had merit. And as a result, nothing meaningful gets done. And it's all the more ironic and a greater source of amusement than it would otherwise be that from an outside perspective, American politics is divided into the Far Right (Democrats) and The Even Farther Right (Republicans). You probably don't want to know where your far right is on the political map...

In Finland (and most of the rest of Europe) I'm a conservative. In America I might as well wear flaming red and paint a sickle and a hammer on my forehead as far as quite a big portion of the populace is concerned. Yet our world has not come crashing down, despite such liberalism and despite socialism being very much in power.

You're very intelligent and smart and I have a lot of respect for you, which is why it grates to see you so casually dismiss everyone on the opposite side just for being there. I know your rant was mostly against the idiot lefties, but it sort of came out as a general tirade against liberals of all sorts. Or maybe the problem is that Europe and America have different definitions of liberal?

Edi

Crazy_Vasey · Post by **Crazy_Vasey** » 2003-04-01 05:00am

You think this guy is bad? A labour MP in the UK called for the Arab nations to rise up and fight against America and the UK and cut off all oil exports to us as well. I'm thinking traitor is an appropriate description here...

Crazy_Vasey · Post by **Crazy_Vasey** » 2003-04-01 05:24am

http://www.itv.com/news/2105567.html

An article on it. The Sun exaggerated it a tad (surprise) but still...

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2003-04-01 09:29am

"They attacked Iraq like wolves. They attacked civilians."

Does he mean the ones who ran the check point?

Mr Galloway explained: "The wolves are Bush and Blair, not the soldiers. The soldiers are lions led by donkeys, sent to kill and be killed."

In an interview for Abu Dhabi TV, the Glasgow Kelvin MP questioned why Arab countries were selling oil to the coalition forces

I think this is a legitamit question. If everyone else is so certain the war is wrong it would be right for them to stop selling oil to the U.K. and the U.S. That would likely be more effective than protesting in the streets of an Arab country or threatening more terrorism.

The question then would be how much of a financial hit are they willing to take to stick it to the U.S. and U.K. over Iraq.

theski · Post by **theski** » 2003-04-01 10:31am

Here is the Professor's excuse http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/72431.htm

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-04-01 11:00am

Edi,

I apologize if you took it to mean that I was slandering the left and upon reading my post again I see that I was in full rant mood and did not qualify my language as well as I should have. For that you have my sincere apology. Let me clear this up I am NOT a conservative, I do not listen to Rush and in fact think he's a loudmouthed prick, I fall in the middle of the road seeing the glaring flaws in both idelaogies, but lately have been agreeing with the conservative viewpoint when it comes to the defense of my nation.

I meant to say and will be clear on this that there is a certain strain of liberalism/leftist/communist idealogy that is pervading the teaching in our universities that is personally disgusting for me. It has a distinctly anti-American flavor to it and I am personnally sick and tired of seeing these fucktards come out of school spouting the bullshit (which can be just as jingoistic and annoying as far righties) College is supposed to teach you critical thinking - think for yourself - but instead they are INDOCTRINATING and thats just wrong, that is not what our parents paid for when we went to school.

This is NOT classical liberalism or Democratic it is a disgusting anti-american, anti-Capitalist (Particularly ironic since most of these 'rebels' are trustafarians.), anti-religious doctrine that unfortunately is lumped in with other liberals. I am NOT bashing liberalism in general.

Thank you Edi for making me clarrify this stand and once again my apologies if my own rant was not clear and insulted you.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-04-01 11:09pm

Tsyroc wrote: He's a frickin' idiot.

I wonder if he has tenure or not? It's one thing to speak out against war etc... it's different to cheer the deaths of your country's soldiers. It's treasonous to encourage people to help kill them.

Besides that, didn't thousands of Somalis die trying to kill those 18 American soldiers? I know that's not what he meant but he's really rolling out the stupid isn't he?

I don't see how he thinks he's helped his anti-war cause. He's just made more people dismiss peace activists as wackos.

The professor in question is not tenured.

Estimates on the Somali body-count in Mogadishu vary, but most place the number of dead Somalis between 500 and 3000.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-04-01 11:11pm

theski wrote:Here is the Professor's excuse http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/72431.htm

Erm... WHAT?

I don't even understand what he's trying to say. Is there another article in which his statements are more fully quoted?

Post by **Edi** » 2003-04-02 12:32am

Stravo wrote:Edi,

I apologize if you took it to mean that I was slandering the left and upon reading my post again I see that I was in full rant mood and did not qualify my language as well as I should have. For that you have my sincere apology.

Hey, no hard feelings, I know what it's like, I've posted a few rants of my own at times that had a little bit too much of the indiscriminate shotgun approach and got return fire from friendlies as a result.

Stravo wrote:Let me clear this up I am NOT a conservative, I do not listen to Rush and in fact think he's a loudmouthed prick, I fall in the middle of the road seeing the glaring flaws in both idelaogies, but lately have been agreeing with the conservative viewpoint when it comes to the defense of my nation.

Yeah, I had pegged ypu as a moderate, which was why it was a bit of a shock to see that rant. Nothing wrong with agreeing with a well reasoned and thought out conservative approach, and there are those too. They just haven't gotten very much publicity with both extremes yelling as loud as they can. The problem is that the political scene right now has an absolutely horrendous signal-to-noise ratio and as a result, reasonable and constructive debate is difficult.

Stravo wrote:I meant to say and will be clear on this that there is a certain strain of liberalism/leftist/communist idealogy that is pervading the teaching in our universities that is personally disgusting for me. It has a distinctly anti-American flavor to it and I am personnally sick and tired of seeing these fucktards come out of school spouting the bullshit (which can be just as jingoistic and annoying as far righties) College is supposed to teach you critical thinking - think for yourself - but instead they are INDOCTRINATING and thats just wrong, that is not what our parents paid for when we went to school.

This is NOT classical liberalism or Democratic it is a disgusting anti-american, anti-Capitalist (Particularly ironic since most of these 'rebels' are trustafarians.), anti-religious doctrine that unfortunately is lumped in with other liberals. I am NOT bashing liberalism in general.

Oh yes, those. *shudder* I know exactly what you're talking about. I've seen quite a few of them myself, a week and a half ago I almost died of stupidity overdose when they showed lengthy interviews of anti-war protesters on TV here. The problem is that most of these radicals are not so much specifically anti-American but anti-establishment (namely capitalism and globalisation) and because America is seen as the epitome of capitalism and big American multinational companies as a fundamental driving force behind globalisation (which these idiots erroneously equate directly with imperialism and oppression when it's a whole another debate), America consequently gets singled out for most of the crap.

All the more reason to start teaching critical thinking skills already in elementary, middle and high school.

*digs out a couple of baseball bats*
I'll be keeping one of these, but do you want to borrow the other one so you can smack some sense into these idiots?

Stravo wrote:Thank you Edi for making me clarrify this stand and once again my apologies if my own rant was not clear and insulted you.

Like I said, no hard feelings.

It happens when the cup runneth over as it inevitably does sometimes. I'm glad we understand each other.

Edi

Posbi · Post by **Posbi** » 2003-04-02 12:36am

Tsyroc wrote: He's a frickin' idiot.

I wonder if he has tenure or not? It's one thing to speak out against war etc... it's different to cheer the deaths of your country's soldiers. It's treasonous to encourage people to help kill them.

Besides that, didn't thousands of Somalis die trying to kill those 18 American soldiers? I know that's not what he meant but he's really rolling out the stupid isn't he?

I don't see how he thinks he's helped his anti-war cause. He's just made more people dismiss peace activists as wackos.

Be happy! That guy wants the US to kill 1.800 enemies for every 18 of your own boys you loose. The guy's a rightwing psycho!