Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

[Elfdart]

A little perspective is in order, folks. Are Benioff & Weiss ham-fisted in how they get the story from A to B, taking the shortest route, no matter how stupid? Yep. But this is to be expected when producers take over writing entirely. Everything from how they handled the demise of Stannis' army, the elimination of Dorne (both the coup and the ambush at sea), the deaths of the second dragon and Danerys' last real friend/advisor and Varys suddenly becoming reckless and stupid to the point of being suicidal were all handled badly, but not because the producers got cheap or lazy -but because they didn't create these characters and simply put, didn't really know how to handle them. It's bad enough when Jon Snow is stupid to the point of being annoying, but now the "smart" characters are just as stupid.

The show's almost done. Another 90 minutes of absurd plotting isn't going to kill the show, nor is it going to retroactively ruin the brilliance of previous episodes. Game of Thrones is still by far the best fantasy movie/TV show since Willow and whatever mistakes the producers made recently aren't going to change that.

.

[The Romulan Republic]

Or: your Hidden Political Motive Sensitivity setting is like 500x higher than anyone else, and it's simultaneously off-putting and self-parodic. Relax, dude.

It was an obvious attempt to bait/troll me, and off-topic. But since continuing to argue about it is just giving him what he wants, I'll leave it at that.

[Elfdart]

So in TRR's bizarro world, if you fancy yourself - with your bullshit blood right to rule - the best ruler - because of just how good your intentions are - its totally ok for you to launch a war of conquest in a foreign land and kill thousands of people so you can sit your ass on a throne.

Question: Do you think the show has done enough groundwork to establish an ending where there is not an ass on a throne at the end of the series?

Because I do not think it has. (Especially because it has put a lot of time into establishing and cheering on its new "King in the North").

The contrast, in the show, therefore is Daenerys' blood right to rule vs. that same right in someone else, not a refutation of the idea of the blood right to rule.

I have no idea what's going through the heads of Martin, Weiss or Benioff when they make this show. Martin was conscientious objector during Vietnam, so it's possible that like many left-of-center types of his generation, he has a real revulsion against war and those love it*. As presented in the show, by last season it was getting pretty hard to pick a side among the squabbling factions. Sansa was and still is the most sympathetic and least stupid of the lot, but she has very little real power at her disposal aside from an assassin for a kid sister. Danerys and Cersei are bloodthirsty lunatics, and Jon is a moron. So as of Season 5, I was to the point of not really giving a shit who got the throne or if there was a throne. I only wanted the Deadites defeated and the living scumbags to die.

It doesn't really matter what Martin or D&D thinks because people have a habit of construing their own points of view from an artist's work, no matter what the artist might think. I mean, if a right-wing publication like The Weekly Standard can watch Star Wars and come away with the notion that the Empire was right and fascism is cool, then it's not exactly a shocker to see some delude themselves into thinking Danerys is an avatar of Girl Power. So I don't really care if it's the authors' intent or if it's been hinted at enough, if they do away with the Iron Throne, I'll be pleasantly surprised. I don't believe any part of a story needs to be "earned" (to use the jargon of fatuous online experts). It's a TV show, not a video game.

*Or not: maybe like many other Baby Boomer ex-hippies, he sold out.

[Elfdart]

Pointing out basic facts to heartbroken Danerys fans who simply can't accept that they fooled themselves into projecting their own attitudes onto someone (a fictional character!) who did not share them is never going to be received well. It's like telling your buddy at his divorce party: "See? I told you she was crazy!"

Adolph Reed did something similar when he pointed out to demoralized liberals that they had only themselves to blame for thinking Obama was ever one of them. Instead of coming to grips with how they suckered themselves, they lashed out at Reed.

I went through something similar with Stannis: I started pulling for him because he seemed to be about the only one left standing with a chance of killing Joffrey, Cersei and the rest. But between him developing a real hankering for putting human beings to the torch and his retarded plans that got his forces wiped out in humiliating fashion, it became clear that he was not just a bad person, but a loser, too. So when his final descent into lunacy and his own demise came along, I didn't fret over it at all. One, because it's a silly show about tits and dragons and two, because no fictional character deserves this kind of adoration.

The most comical example of this tendency:

Remember when feminists were mostly left-wingers and had no use for things like monarchy, real or fanciful?

[Solauren]

I personally find the Danerys fans throwing hissy-fits hilarious. "A Decade of my life."

Really? A Decade? If you watched Game of Thrones as a full time job, it would take you maybe 2 weeks to watch it all.

So, anything else you spent on Game of Thrones (except maybe reading the novel series it's based from), was you exploring your own inner-fan-person.

And you know what? I've looked in on a few cosplayers I know of that specialize in Danerys cosplays. None of them are screaming in emotional distress or anything. complaining about writing quality, maybe, but nothing more.

[The Romulan Republic]

Sure, poke fun at a few of the more over the top people and ignore the real writing and characterization flaws.

Or, in Elfdart's case, take pot shots at feminism and feminists.

[Galvatron]

Do feminists still get to be upset if Arya and Sansa wind up saving the day?

[Solauren]

Sure, poke fun at a few of the more over the top people and ignore the real writing and characterization flaws.

Oh, I'd do that to the show itself, but that's being handled in this thread quite nicely.

If you want my detailed thoughts on the season, please let me know.

[Tribble]

*While watching episode*

Well, I guess that takes care of that.

Spoiler

So long Crazy Queen Dany, we barely knew thee. And even that was more than we could live with

At least Drogon knows who the real villain of the series is!

[The Romulan Republic]

So the woman who promised to bring change to the world turned out to just be cray-cray because her lover rejected her, leading said ex-lover to have to kill her and assume his rightful place as the "real" hero.


I feel a great disturbance in the Force. As though a million incels came at once, and will never by silenced.

I feel something terrible has happened.

[Tribble]

So the woman who promised to bring change to the world turned out to just be cray-cray because her lover rejected her, leading said ex-lover to have to kill her and assume his rightful place as the "real" hero.


I feel a great disturbance in the Force. As though a million incels came at once, and will never by silenced.

I feel something terrible has happened.

Well so much for spoilers lol

Seriously though, why didn't Drogon roast Jon right there?

[The Romulan Republic]

So the woman who promised to bring change to the world turned out to just be cray-cray because her lover rejected her, leading said ex-lover to have to kill her and assume his rightful place as the "real" hero.


I feel a great disturbance in the Force. As though a million incels came at once, and will never by silenced.

I feel something terrible has happened.

Well so much for spoilers lol

Seriously though, why didn't Drogon roast Jon right there?

There's a spoiler warning in the thread title, so I figured it was okay.

Yup. I'm with Aerys/Daenerys here- Burn them all, and put this miserable arc out of its misery.

[Tribble]

ALL HAIL... BRAN THE BROKEN ?!?!?!

…..

K, I'll admit I did not expect that. Let's see if he survives to the end of the episode.

[The Romulan Republic]

Seriously?

I mean, I don't hate it, even if it feels random, but Bran seems like the kind of person who's too powerful to be King, if that makes sense. He can see everything. Past, present, and future. Congrats. Instead of the tyranny of a dragon queen, Westeros will get the tyranny of a God-emperor.

As to Danny's fate- mark my words, within five years, maybe less, someone is going to make a GoT fan film for a budget of a few thousand/tens of thousands of dollars that gives us a better ending than this shit. Or at least no worse.

[The Romulan Republic]

Okay, fan theory:

Bran warged into Daenerys, possessing her and compelling her to burn King's Landing to the ground so that Jon would kill her, clearing his path to the throne as part of some as yet not fully revealed long game of the Three-Eyed Raven's. He then warged into Drogon to keep him from burning Jon, whether out of some lingering affection for his adoptive brother, or because Jon not dying at that moment is necessary as part of some long-term plan.

Bran/The Three-Eyed Raven is the true final villain of Game of Thrones.

Okay, not really, but its amusing.

[Ziggy Stardust]

So, what happened to Arya's horse? They made such a big deal about that horse last episode, only to have her just wander into frame on foot in this episode. Such a strange and meaningless choice.

[The Romulan Republic]

So, what happened to Arya's horse? They made such a big deal about that horse last episode, only to have her just wander into frame on foot in this episode. Such a strange and meaningless choice.

That's a pretty trivial nitpick compared to the sudden about-face/oversimplification of Danny's arc which they failed to convincingly sell (and which comes off as pandering to misogynist fans), or the last-minute trashing of Jaime.

[Galvatron]

I mean, I don't hate it, even if it feels random, but Bran seems like the kind of person who's too powerful to be King, if that makes sense. He can see everything. Past, present, and future. Congrats. Instead of the tyranny of a dragon queen, Westeros will get the tyranny of a God-emperor.

When has Bran ever demonstrated a propensity for tyranny? And God forbid knowledge and wisdom outqualify fire and blood.

[The Romulan Republic]

I mean, I don't hate it, even if it feels random, but Bran seems like the kind of person who's too powerful to be King, if that makes sense. He can see everything. Past, present, and future. Congrats. Instead of the tyranny of a dragon queen, Westeros will get the tyranny of a God-emperor.

When has Bran ever demonstrated a propensity for tyranny? And God forbid knowledge and wisdom outqualify fire and blood.

Bran didn't. The Three-Eyed Raven? Who knows? Bran is clearly somewhat detached from his humanity now. Who knows what he has seen in the future? That he will do simply because he knows it "must" happen?

And knowledge and wisdom is fine. But again, we're talking about a God-Emperor here. Do you trust one man with that much power? And perhaps more importantly- do you have a choice?

[Jub]

Bran didn't. The Three-Eyed Raven? Who knows? Bran is clearly somewhat detached from his humanity now. Who knows what he has seen in the future? That he will do simply because he knows it "must" happen?

And knowledge and wisdom is fine. But again, we're talking about a God-Emperor here. Do you trust one man with that much power? And perhaps more importantly- do you have a choice?

Assuming that his knowledge of the future is accurate and not tainted in some way he's the best possible man for the job. It's like saying we should never let a super intelligent AI take over for our current systems of leadership even after one has repeatedly demonstrated sound, if somewhat cool, logic and an even hand when it comes to balancing a system as complex as a nation. No normal man should have so much power, but an extraordinary one, they may be the only man to trust.

[The Romulan Republic]

Bran didn't. The Three-Eyed Raven? Who knows? Bran is clearly somewhat detached from his humanity now. Who knows what he has seen in the future? That he will do simply because he knows it "must" happen?

And knowledge and wisdom is fine. But again, we're talking about a God-Emperor here. Do you trust one man with that much power? And perhaps more importantly- do you have a choice?

Assuming that his knowledge of the future is accurate and not tainted in some way he's the best possible man for the job. It's like saying we should never let a super intelligent AI take over for our current systems of leadership even after one has repeatedly demonstrated sound, if somewhat cool, logic and an even hand when it comes to balancing a system as complex as a nation. No normal man should have so much power, but an extraordinary one, they may be the only man to trust.

Maybe. If he really is that good. That wise. That fair.

But what if he's not?

That's an awful lot of trust to put in one person's hands.

[Jub]

Maybe. If he really is that good. That wise. That fair.

But what if he's not?

That's an awful lot of trust to put in one person's hands.

Okay, so who else would have been more capable in his place? You can't bitch about the person in charge without offering a viable alternative.

[Galvatron]

How is Bran's knowledge any worse than Dany's dragons?

[Tribble]

Maybe. If he really is that good. That wise. That fair.

But what if he's not?

That's an awful lot of trust to put in one person's hands.

Okay, so who else would have been more capable in his place? You can't bitch about the person in charge without offering a viable alternative.

Well at least our version of Game of Thrones will carry on as the two of you go at it in every single thread.


In a way it is kind of fitting that Bran, the first major victim of the series, ends up becoming leader. And not via force, but because people wanted him to. And thus it comes full circle for the Starks. I just wish there had been a bit more setup and time for this, because it came across as a bit too random for me.

[The Romulan Republic]

How is Bran's knowledge any worse than Dany's dragons?

Because that degree of knowledge and fucking time travel, not to mention possessing creatures, is vastly, vastly more powerful than dragons. Which is great, if its in the hands of the first perfectly good man in history. If it isn't... well, there's not much you can do about it.

Because the show so underutilized Bran, its easy to overlook how fucking game-breaking his abilities should be.

Again- Westeros now has a God-Emperor. The one mercy is he'll eventually die- but he can always train another Three-Eyed Raven.

Maybe. If he really is that good. That wise. That fair.

But what if he's not?

That's an awful lot of trust to put in one person's hands.

Okay, so who else would have been more capable in his place? You can't bitch about the person in charge without offering a viable alternative.

I damn well can, but-

Sigh... Jon Snow. I'd have said Danny before they took her character to crazy town, but now... yeah, Jon. A genuinely good man who cares for his people before himself, thinks outside the box, and will do his duty as he sees it whatever the cost. Not the sharpest sword in the armory, maybe, but with good advisers he'll be fine. And he at least has a legally valid claim, so he probably won't set a precedent leading to endless destabilization and civil war. And if he sucks... he's far less powerful than Bran.

Davos would be a great King, were there any way to make it happen.

But maybe it doesn't matter. Bran is so game-breakingly powerful that he's defacto ruler regardless. If someone else gets the job, its only because he let them.