Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

[Jub]

Well at least our version of Game of Thrones will carry on as the two of you go at it in every single thread.

I think it gets magnified by the board's general lack of activity and our relatively high rate of posting. I think if we'd gone at each other like this even three or four years ago it would have been buried by new threads and new posts fairly quickly.

I do agree with the sentiment though, I can't imagine I'd enjoy watching the same to people argue in thread after thread myself.

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Sigh... Jon Snow. I'd have said Danny before they took her character to crazy town, but now... yeah, Jon. <snip the rest for brevity>

Ask yourself this, is being a good man enough in a world where all eyes will be upon you? Who's to say he doesn't end up taking advice from somebody like Littlefinger who uses his lack of savvy to become the shadow ruler of the kingdom. As to Danny, there were signs before she burned King's Landing that she would have had serious issues ruling a nation as opposed to conquering one.

The characters you like the most aren't always the best rulers and the characters you feel uncomfortable with may have hidden virtues. Don't let frustration over a shaky first season cloud your ability to think logically here.

Davos would be a great King, were there any way to make it happen.

Any number of people could make a great leader, but to lead you must have the ability to obtain a position of leadership.

But maybe it doesn't matter. Bran is so game-breakingly powerful that he's defacto ruler regardless. If someone else gets the job, its only because he let them.

We don't know how Bran will lead, he could be a savior or a tyrant. Is that not a fitting end for a series that never promised easy answers?

[The Romulan Republic]

Ask yourself this, is being a good man enough in a world where all eyes will be upon you? Who's to say he doesn't end up taking advice from somebody like Littlefinger who uses his lack of savvy to become the shadow ruler of the kingdom. As to Danny, there were signs before she burned King's Landing that she would have had serious issues ruling a nation as opposed to conquering one.

The characters you like the most aren't always the best rulers and the characters you feel uncomfortable with may have hidden virtues. Don't let frustration over a shaky first season cloud your ability to think logically here.

There's no guarantee that any ruler will turn out to be good and wise.

That's why the greatest comfort is knowing that they are not immortal.* Bran... may not be, but the Three-Eyed Raven arguably is.

Any number of people could make a great leader, but to lead you must have the ability to obtain a position of leadership.

Of course. Davos was a purely hypothetical suggestion.

We don't know how Bran will lead, he could be a savior or a tyrant. Is that not a fitting end for a series that never promised easy answers?

Perhaps. Its far from the biggest issue I had with this season. I'm just saying, in-universe, he'd make me real nervous as King, maybe far more than Danny would even.

*I'm reminded of the John Oliver video where he showed a guy saying of Trump "the same worms will eat him too", and noted that "it says something about the Trump era that the phrase "the same worms will eat him too" actually qualifies as a hopeful thought."

[Tribble]

That's an intersting question. Would Bran be able to transfer his powers as the Three-Eyed Raven to someone else before he dies?

[The Romulan Republic]

All I know is, I HAVE to write that Doctor Who/Game of Thrones crossover some time. The implications of the Three-Eyed Raven, and how his/its perception of time and time travel would mix with the Doctor's, is just too damn interesting to pass up.

[Galvatron]

I assume that, in addition to being Hand of the King, Tyrion's rightful claim to the lordship of Casterly Rock will also be upheld.

[Coop D'etat]

That's an intersting question. Would Bran be able to transfer his powers as the Three-Eyed Raven to someone else before he dies?

Presumably yes, as he got the powers from Bloodraven, who got it from someone else. But in the political solution proposed the powers of the TER wouldn't necessarily go along with the throne, Bran just happens to hold both offices concurrently.

A Three Eyed Raven has to be a powerful green seer, which supposed to be uber rare (as uncommon amoung wargs as wargs are to mundanes). So its not all that likely a suitable noble for election would also be qualified to play both roles.

[mr friendly guy]

Haven't watched since season 2, but are there any Lannisters left besides Tyrion?
To my non expert eye, it looks like a victory for the Starks.

[FaxModem1]

So, I've watched the finale. And well, it's definitely an ending, for a lot of characters. Brienne is head of the Kingsguard, with her squire SER Podrick now fully knighted and part of the Kingsguard. Tyrion is Hand of the King. Samwell Tarly is Archmaester. Ser Davos is Master of Ships, which is a role I'll think he'll take to well. Bronn is in charge of food production and coin, Seven gods help them all. The plotline from Dorne was an extra who had no lines, and I'm all the happier for it. That plotline was always a useless cul-de-sac that never went anywhere anyway. Sweet Robyn of the Vale grew up, and looks like a Disney prince, and without his insane mother, and under the tutelage of an actual knight who is about chivalry, will rule it better than she did. Edmure Tully will rule as he lived, a joke to everyone else, but still alive and in charge.

Brienne writing down Jaime's accomplishments in the book of the Kingsguard was very touching.

Tyrion almost said word for word the exact same thing as the article said about Dany, how she burned people, and we cheered. Not realizing that this became normal for her, and when all you have is a nail, every thing looks like a hammer. Drogon is Essos's problem, and I hope he eats every slaver he comes across. Or perhaps he'll do what he did under his mother's example, and continue to eat shepherds, sheep, and other helpless peasants.

So, the North is now an independent kingdom, I hope they have food leftover for the winter they're facing, because they just made themselves independent of their main supplier of food during the winter months. Norxit will just have interesting consequences for Sansa. Same with the Wildlings in the true North. I hope Jon Snow enjoys cannibalism. At least Sansa knew to pack away a lot of food for winter, well, before the armies of the living ate it all, anyway.

My big question about Bran is if he'll even be active, as being the Three Eyed Raven makes you a bit inactive. But, as previous monarchs showed, kingdoms can survive an uninterested king. Essentially, Westeros will rebuild, and at the end of the day, this was just another page in the history book. Things changed, some people got where they deserved in life, others were cruelly killed, but for the most part, it was just another page.

Which is a fitting ending for a show about how a fantasy kingdom would go if it played off as the Dark Ages truly were.

Sidenote: Who else thought it was hilarious that Sam's idea of creating democracy was utterly laughed out by the rich and powerful?

[Vympel]

Just finished.

*deep breath*

Yeah I really liked it. I somehow did not give a shit about the low points of Episodes 4 and 5 after watching this episode. So it was pretty satisfying for me. Random comments in no particular order:

- That shot of Dany with dragon wings was cool;
- The scene between Jon and Tyrion was powerful and did the absolute best they could to justify what had gone wrong with Dany in the circumstances;
- Dany's death was haunting. And poor Drogon
- They brought back my man Edmure! Why'd they have to beclown him a little when it was clear no one would support him though
- Who were the people with all the high lords/ladies? I thought they were bannermen of the respective great houses, and maybe they were, but were they voting?
- Robin Arryn huh? I saw a few people on twitter fanning themselves at the transformation. Breast milk eh?
- I liked that Yara was upset that Jon had killed Dany. Fuck her, though.
- The democracy gag. Great.
- Brienne filling in Jaime's entry on the White Book.
- Bronn as Lord of Highgarden and Lord Paramount of the Reach? Fuck off. But ... eh. This is a book reader problem more than a show problem. It's a bit of fun pandering that doesn't harm the episode in any significant way.
- Tell me what happened to Widow's Wail goddammit.
- Ghost got pats!!!!
- Everyone (except Dany) gets a happy ending.
- King Bran: I thought they sold it well. Nuff said, really.

How much bullshit was that whole fiasco of Episode 4 when Jon didn't pet Ghost? They knew exactly what they were doing.

So did they pull off bittersweet? Yeah, I think they did.

So at the end of eight years - I'm still really thankful for this show, and thankful it didn't end like total dogshit despite stumbling majorly at the finish line. It still could've been better. Oh well.

[Themightytom]

I'm still not a fan of this season as an ending because I think they dumped a lot of clever possibilities and action in favor of a blunt unchanging routine. It's not quite as bad as BSG ended, and that show really taught me that some plot lines are just for the moment. Stargate Atlantis taught me not to expect them all to ever come to fruition, because where writers might lay seed for a future series or movie, the funding and politics don't always work out.

I'd have preferred a more complex revelation and resolution for the Knight King's arc. I'd have prefer Arya finish her list, Ser Jamie find his redemption, Varys succeed with his master of whispers efforts, even if after death, Danaerys to move on, as Emperor, to free other cities, The North to be freed under Sansa and Theon, Jon to wander off with Ghost AND a dragon, because- both, Arya to keep adventuring, maybe to Valeria with Gendry keeping the home fire lit for her, Ser Bronn of the fookin Blackwater to rule King's landing, Tyrion to return to Casterly Rock with... Someone? Grey Worm and Missandei to find their beach.

I guess it's a good sign if the series ends and I'm wishing for more, there is still a prequel, and probably at least one sequel. The endings we got seemed as though rather than giving us more time for more epic story telling, with extended length episodes, we just got a shit load of time hops and offscreen action. All my wishes above aside they ended it in a manner entirely true to the characters they had, so I can't entirely fault that. It was just game of thrones, it went in a semi predictable direction but in a blunt way.

[Galvatron]

Why do I get the feeling that Jon will pull a Mance Rayder and never return to the wall? I mean, what purpose would it serve now? The Unsullied (and presumably the Dothraki) are all gone now so who's even around to make sure that Jon's punishment is enforced?

[Alferd Packer]

That was my takeaway as well; he's going to help the Free Folk re-settle their now-empty homeland, and will probably just stay there.

[Elfdart]

Why do I get the feeling that Jon will pull a Mance Rayder and never return to the wall? I mean, what purpose would it serve now? The Unsullied (and presumably the Dothraki) are all gone now so who's even around to make sure that Jon's punishment is enforced?

I assumed he was leaving the Wall (which has no real purpose now anyway), no doubt in search of another feisty redhead to shack up with.

Sansa was the clear winner of the Game Of Thrones. She won independence for the North. One brother is king of the rest of Westeros and the other is off with the Wildlings and what's left of the Night's Watch. Oh, and she took out the crazed mass-murderer by telling a secret to her ex-husband and letting him, Varys and Jon do the dirty work. It reminded me of Elizabeth R, where Elizabeth Tudor ends up on the throne by appearing meek, keeping quiet and letting the other claimants kill one another off or drop dead naturally.

[Elfdart]

I take it the guy sitting between Sam and Edmure was Howland Reed? Too bad they didn't bring back Meera for this scene.

[Esquire]

I gotta say, the literal last episode and a half is an awfully weird time for the show to start applying modern moral standards to its characters, when previously it had been pretty good about using medieval-ish ones. Tyrion's list of Bad Things Daenerys Has Done comes across as a giant case of special pleading, especially because I'm pretty sure when he himself was planning to burn large numbers of basically defenceless people alive in a battle over King's Landing, he observed that there's no rule or custom governing what happens during a sack (which is what you're going to get if the enemy has to take the walls by force). Can't bring myself to feel bad about the lack of due process in Slaver's Bay or with Lannister/Tarly troops either, since everyone in authority in the show orders summary executions all the time, starting with Ned Stark in I think the second scene of the entire series. I may simply be having trouble separating actual medieval history from show history, of course.

Otherwise, episode was... Fine. They didn't do anywhere near the work required to make this flow naturally, except for Sansa's bit, but the bare bones of the narrative structure supporting the rest were there of you're willing to make some leaps.

[Vympel]

I take it the guy sitting between Sam and Edmure was Howland Reed? Too bad they didn't bring back Meera for this scene.

Could've been anyone really. I assumed all the unnamed people were the bannermen of the person sitting next to them, give or take.

[Coop D'etat]

It just occurred to me that they hired a professional legbreaker and hitman to be chief tax collector. One who got the job by extorting outstanding back pay from a couple of highborns.

Bronn is surprisingly well qualified for his job.

[Nari]

Could have been better, but I was happier with the finale than I expected to be. After Dany torched the Tarlys, I wasn't terribly surprised by what happened in the previous episode.

I thought Jon's ultimate resolution was a bit lame (see below) but that Arya and Sansa's were pretty good. Sequel time for Arya I hope.


And the outfits they were wearing at the end! I don't know whether I didn't notice it before, but the style of the vest Tyrion (and a couple of others) was wearing was pretty cool; maybe next Halloween outfit! Although, that I was noticing the clothes is telling me the actual drama wasn't working for me on some level.


Some issues, and some nitpick, most of which are related to things that smacked of scenes that were written in isolation without taking to due diligence in the story boards to make sure anything made sense. Which at the end of day just points to a lack of care, which is difficult to understand.

1. Why was Jon still alive? What possible reason would the Unsullied have for not killing him on the spot? It's not like they were waiting to hold a trial (the concept of which they wouldn't appear to have a great deal of history with), and if their demand was that he be killed, I'm not exactly sure how holding onto him was going to give them something to negotiate. They are literally occupying Kings Landing, and it looks (from the beard growth) that it took a good couple of weeks for the Northern Army to get down there.

Who would have been cautioning them? Tyrion?

Tyrion I can understand, as they didn't have clear orders of what to do with him. But unless it was only just revealed that Jon kill Dany shortly before the council meeting, this doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

2. So.... Drogon understood that Dany's real problem was obsession with the Throne? I guess there must have been some telepathic link for him to show up.... again, this comes down to why is Jon alive?

3. The Unsullied are off somewhere to die of old age? Who is going to migrate to Unsullied land?

4. Did Jon just wander around aimlessly after leaving Greyworm executing the Lannister soldiers? Otherwise how did Greyworm get to podium first?

5. Why are Jaime and Cersei at the top of mound of collapsed rubble, just one layer down, rather than at the bottom? Rule of cool apparently.

6. What actually fell on Jaime and Cersei? The supporting arches are still up!

7. How is the Throne still sitting there and not covered in rubble? Masonry is great in compression but terrible in tension. I can't see how the tower tears away and falls neatly away without raining debris down on that room and the throne. Rule of cool again I guess.

8. What happened to Arya and the horse? Was that an allegory to Revelations? A bad edit?

9. What season is it again? Is Winter staying or has it already gone? No-one talked about this, despite everyone talking about this in S1!

[Coop D'etat]

They also put a reformed smuggler in charge of the navy. Bran's taxes are gonna get paid.

[NeoGoomba]

Bronn gets as close to a happy ending as anyone does in the show. And unlike Littlefinger, he did it by being brutally honest about his ruthlessness and bought loyalties.

[Vendetta]

9. What season is it again? Is Winter staying or has it already gone? No-one talked about this, despite everyone talking about this in S1!

The dramatic personification of Winter got stabbed three episodes ago. It is too late to pretend that Winter has any dramatic meaning to the story.

[Galvatron]

It was always my understanding that winter didn't really affect southern Westeros much.

[The Romulan Republic]

With the disclaimer that I haven't actually watched so much as a clip of the episode (I was bitter enough about the last two that I just said fuck it and read the cliff-notes), this doesn't sound awful. Its just soured a bit for me by my dislike of how they treated Jaime and Daenerys in the last two.

Now the real question is... Did Bronn finally get his castle?

[Galvatron]

Bronn got Highgarden.

[The Romulan Republic]

At least somebody got a happy ending.