You are Daenerys (RAR).

[The Romulan Republic]

Inspired by this thread, and specifically discussion of alternative methods Daenerys and company could have used: https://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic ... &start=450

At the start of 8.4, you wake up in the body of Daenerys Targaryen. You have just defeated the Night King (well, actually, no one did ), but your armies are depleted, Sansa is an ungrateful isolationist, your ex-lover/nephew is a possible rival for the throne, and Cersei and Euron hold King's Landing, surrounded by an array of ballistas. And in the background, motives unknown, the Three-Eyed Raven is watching.

So, what do you do? Can you come up with a more effective plan to take King's Landing without mass murder, and keep your allies on your side? Or to be even more brutal and preempt all possible opponents?

Alternatively, you can step into the shoes of Jon Snow. How do you advise Danny? Do you tell your family your true identity? And most importantly, do you marry your aunt?

[FaxModem1]

Actually give my troops a few weeks to heal. Seriously, Sansa's request that the troops get time for R&R and to heal isn't that bad a request, and will show that you're a leader that cares about your troops.

Next, hire a faceless man to take care of Euron and Cersei. Possibly ask them to make it look like they killed each other. Come in as the great liberator, coming to unite in the chaos.

Work with the Maesters to bring about a new, more educated age.

[The Romulan Republic]

Actually give my troops a few weeks to heal. Seriously, Sansa's request that the troops get time for R&R and to heal isn't that bad a request, and will show that you're a leader that cares about your troops.

Another factor is that with knowledge of Euron's fleet, I'd like wait for Yara's ships to arrive before risking an approach to King's Landing.

Next, hire a faceless man to take care of Euron and Cersei. Possibly ask them to make it look like they killed each other. Come in as the great liberator, coming to unite in the chaos.

I'd just use Arya. She has the training, and she'll probably do it pro bono and thank you for the privilege.

Work with the Maesters to bring about a new, more educated age.

What about post-war government reforms? Do you keep the absolute monarchy Danny seemed to be aiming for, or try for something else?

[Tribble]

The big questions here are whether or not Bran Stark was able to foresee this happening and/or whether or not he is able to warg into me and/or my dragons. If so then there is very little we could do if it goes against his will.

Assuming that's the case it's hard to say for sure what Bran Stark's will would be in this scenario, as he is effectively King/Queen maker. Apparently he doesn't want to be King himself but he's clearly willing (and likely able to manipulate events) to do so. At the very least he wants himself, Jon Snow and the Starks to be happy and be in influential positions.

Jon Snow doesn't really want to be King either and is currently loyal (to a point) but he's going to tell the rest of the Starks about being the legitimate heir (and he is a man, which is suddenly all important this season).

Sansa Stark does not at the outset support me, but she just might if I back up her military plans (which make more sense anyways) and her desire for independence.

Arya could probably kill me anytime she wants to unless the dragons could catch her, so I'd best stay on her good side.

Tyrion is loyal at this point and given that I'm not planning on nuking King's Landing will likely remain so. Hopefully this will help him recover from his inexplicable case of stupidity.

Varys… ya that guy probably has to die if I plan on living, as he's going to betray me at some point for someone else no matter what I do. That's just who he is.

Cersei definitely has to go, and I'm sure Arya would be happy to off her if given the opportunity. Hell she took the Night King and his army by complete surprise so she ought to be able to do it.

I have dragons, an army and also have a claim to the throne, and unlike real Dany I'm not going to recklessly rush over to King's Landing nor do I have a penchant for burning down fleeing civilians. Given that I think it'd plausible to become ruler after taking King's Landing so long as I maintain my forces and the Stark's support, especially if I make the reform of having the Monarchy elected by the nobles.

I'd probably melt the Iron Throne as a symbolic gesture too.

[The Romulan Republic]

The big questions here are whether or not Bran Stark was able to foresee this happening and/or whether or not he is able to warg into me and/or my dragons. If so then there is very little we could do if it goes against his will.

Honestly, with foreknowledge of how things ended in canon, I'd probably just sit down with Bran and say "Look, we both know that you can fuck me up if you want to. We both know you've seen how this plays out. So cut to the chase, and tell me what I need to do to keep you on my side."

Assuming that's the case it's hard to say for sure what Bran Stark's will would be in this scenario, as he is effectively King/Queen maker. Apparently he doesn't want to be King himself but he's clearly willing (and likely able to manipulate events) to do so. At the very least he wants himself, Jon Snow and the Starks to be happy and be in influential positions.

The problem is, we don't know what he wants, yes. For all we know, he's seen what will happen over the next thousand years, and what needs to happen to make a certain future come to pass.

Jon Snow doesn't really want to be King either and is currently loyal (to a point) but he's going to tell the rest of the Starks about being the legitimate heir (and he is a man, which is suddenly all important this season).

Dragon fire > penis. I'm not worried about Jon.

Not going to fuck him if I were in Danny's place because... he's a man. He can be show/trophy husband if he wants though.

Sansa Stark does not at the outset support me, but she just might if I back up her military plans (which make more sense anyways) and her desire for independence.

Northern independence is a bitter pill to swallow, not least because it will encourage other realms to demand independence. But I don't know how to avert it, short of a war that may turn Jon and, far more importantly, Arya and Bran against me.

So... allow it if I must, but make all possible efforts to win Sansa over first. Meanwhile, wage an aggressive propaganda campaign to remind the North who's army it was who fought and died for them against the Night King.

Arya could probably kill me anytime she wants to unless the dragons could catch her, so I'd best stay on her good side.

Arya is the second most dangerous person on the planet in this scenario. Bran is first. You are third.

Tyrion is loyal at this point and given that I'm not planning on nuking King's Landing will likely remain so.

Yes. However, he has proven less than competent with regard to military matters, and he does have a loyalty conflict when it comes to Jaime (who will be held in Unsullied custody until his addiction is deposed, then given a choice of bending the knee or the Wall- on that note, organize an expedition, maybe under Jon's command, to go North and make sure there are no other surprises waiting up North, and to settle those lands if possible).

Varys… ya that guy probably has to die if I plan on living, as he's going to betray me at some point no matter what I do.

Varys needs to go, yes. The only thing worse than an incompetent spy master is a competent spy master who's loyalties are uncertain.

Cersei definitely has to go, and I'm sure Arya would be happy to off her if given the opportunity. Hell she took the Night King and his army by complete surprise so she ought to be able to do it.

Yup.

I don't even have to ask her to. She'll do it herself if I just sit back and let her (unless the Hound talks her out of it, anyway).

I have dragons, an army and also have a claim to the throne, and unlike real Dany I'm not going to recklessly rush over to King's Landing nor do I have a penchant for burning down fleeing civilians. Given that I think it'd plausible to become ruler after taking King's Landing so long as I maintain my forces and the Stark's support, especially if I make the reform of having the Monarchy elected by the nobles.

I'd try to negotiate a surrender of the city (post-Cersei assassination), but if I have to take it, either keep Varys alive long enough to get any info he has on secret passages into the city, or failing that, night attack (for anti-ballista cover), with surgical dragon fire strikes on the wall, followed by an assault by the Unsullied (who are disciplined and will be under strict orders not to slaughter civilians or surrendering troops).

Post-conquest, I would focus on creating/bolstering institutions that serve the realm, rather than any one monarch. I'd like to spare Jaime if I can, and try to rehabilitate his image to create a strong precedent for principled disobedience of a corrupt monarch by the Kingsguard. Expand the authority of the Maesters. Try to create a beurocracy of career civil servants and a professional army of career soldiers, who will serve the realm, not a particular monarch (their oaths of loyalty will be to the realm, not the King/Queen, as well).

I'd probably melt the Iron Throne as a symbolic gesture too.

Can't hurt. It'll send a nice message that you're not just going to be Aegon the Conqueror 2.0.

[Lonestar]

Alternatively, you can step into the shoes of Jon Snow. How do you advise Danny? Do you tell your family your true identity? And most importantly, do you marry your aunt?

Skyrim belongs to the Nords.

[Solauren]

As Daenerys -

1 - Take time to heal. Both dragons took a beating. If need be, move further south to warmer climes (relatively speaking) and then let everyone heal.
Thank Sansa for her suggestion and wise council.

2 - Inform the Free Folk, that if they want to be part of the Kingdoms, I will destroy the Wall, as it's not longer strickly needed.
If they don't, how do they feel about a mutually manned passage where the Night King broke through?

3 - Inform Jamie Lannister he's under house arrest. He's not to be charged, but I can't risk him going back to King's Landing.
However, if he's willing to take a message to Cersei for me, then I will allow his release.

4 - Ask Arya to go to King's Landing, get ready to kill Euron and Cersei.

5 - Begin making armor for the dragons. One Ballista built could mean more.

6 - Begin the march South. I don't care if the Ironborne fleet takes Dragonstone. Euron has already shown that he's just about unbeatable on land, and no need to risk any forces.

7 - Have Bran recon King's landing. If he can possibly take over flocks of birds to attack ballista soldiers, do so.

Assault on King's Landing -
Any enemy soldier that surrenders once we breach the walls, is to be taken hostage.
I'll be extracting pleadges of fealty from their families (if noble), or use them as enforced labor for a few months.

This will slow down the assault on King's Landing as prisoners are taken, but will show the common folk, the new rulers are good.

I have no problem laying seige to King's Landing. Also, I'm sure Varys knows how to sneak people in.

And if Arya happens to kill Cersei + co, takes her face, and surrenders, so much the better.

No matter what, however, the Golden Company is getting cooked. Why?
Cause they will not surrender.


As Jon
1 - Suggest the above to Daenerys.

2 - Tell her who I am, then tell her I love her, and ask Daenerys to marry me.

3 - Ask to be put in charge of the Assault on King's Landing, so I can hand her the city as a wedding gift. A public declaration that I recognize her as the rightful ruler of Westros.

4 - Not tell anyone who I am, until after we've married. Swear Bran and Samwell to secrecy in the meantime. (Actually, I don't think I need to, but still....)

I'm hoping not having Varys semi-move against her, my parentage secret, her having the love she wants, and her best friend alive, will keep her temper in check.

[PREDATOR490]

Arya - Is effectively off the table. She left with Hound on her own with out a word to anyone. You cannot really count on Arya to provide any assistance due to her being a lone wolf player for some time.
At best, you can point her in the direction of Ceseri and wait, either Ayra will follow through or the Hound will manage to talk Arya out of it and all you really have achieved is waste a bit of time on a loose cannon.

The practical way to go about things without abusing fore-knowledge. Allow the armies to rest, recover and march as a singular force to Kings Landing.
With two dragons and rested army, the march south to Kings Landing might take a bit but it will be unchallenged. Euron's fleet cannot do anything and any attempt to engage is going up against a rested army and two dragons.
Ceseri using the population as human shields will eventually strain King's Landing resources to the point they eventually bleed out and cannot fight allowing for a bloodless waltz into King's Landing as liberators.

The time can also be used to whip people into line, specifically, Sansa, Bran and Varys. Although, if you change events this way... a problem does occur in that Varys may not reveal his intentions to Jon or Tyrion before he makes his own play. Dany has no knowledge of what is coming and without exceptional luck, Varys will likely poison her and game over. Dragon fucks off along with all of the forces breaking into a civil war. Ceseri ends up the default winner and can wait to wipe out whats left.

If Dany dies, Jon is unlikely to pick up the mantle or be able to hold control of Dany's forces so the collapse is pretty much guaranteed. The only possible saving grace is Arya knocking out Ceseri. In which case, Bran ends up as king because Jon will fuck off and / or go into seclusion again.

Jon vs. Sansa - Jon is going to reveal his identity. That would seem all but certain given his behaviour so I do not really see events playing out any differently with the exception of the army aspect.

If you bring fore-sight into the equation -
As Dany
- Try to convince Jon to get his shit together. Marry the fucker if only for appearances. Impress upon him even further how dim he is being.

Unfortunately, as Dany you are fucked.
The moment Jon reveals his situation, Dany is stuck with an unwinnable situation.
The only way through it is to burn Bran, Sansa, Arya, Tyrion, Jon and Varys.

It really is an all-or-nothing situation because killing one will require nuking them all because the risk of leaving them is too great. This will cost Dany any loyalty with native Westeros forces which forces her to rely on Dragons, Dothraki and Unsullied alone.
Either this will result in Dany losing completely or a victory that will have her forever regarded as a Mad Queen with her only hope of holding onto power with the Dothraki and the Unsullied.

As Jon, entirely dependent on sensibilities.

Marry Dany - By far the best option. Swallow the pride and ignore the ick factor in a marriage. Or, take one for the kingdom and give Dany what she wants.

The alternative and really out of character for Jon - Play the longer game. String Dany along and then have her 'knocked' off with the quiet help of Varys after King's Landing is taken then execute Varys on the spot.

The real issue is how much you want to accept the idea that Dany was always the Mad Queen and how much she will lose her shit. If you change events so that the Dragon does not die and Dany's adviser remains alive... Dany might stay sane.
The only potential source of a confrontation would be Sansa vs. Dany. In which case, Jon is stuck in the shitty situation.

I fully expect Jon would take out Dany to protect his family so... back to the same situation.

[The Romulan Republic]

As Daenerys -

1 - Take time to heal. Both dragons took a beating. If need be, move further south to warmer climes (relatively speaking) and then let everyone heal.
Thank Sansa for her suggestion and wise council.

2 - Inform the Free Folk, that if they want to be part of the Kingdoms, I will destroy the Wall, as it's not longer strickly needed.
If they don't, how do they feel about a mutually manned passage where the Night King broke through?

3 - Inform Jamie Lannister he's under house arrest. He's not to be charged, but I can't risk him going back to King's Landing.
However, if he's willing to take a message to Cersei for me, then I will allow his release.

4 - Ask Arya to go to King's Landing, get ready to kill Euron and Cersei.

5 - Begin making armor for the dragons. One Ballista built could mean more.

6 - Begin the march South. I don't care if the Ironborne fleet takes Dragonstone. Euron has already shown that he's just about unbeatable on land, and no need to risk any forces.

7 - Have Bran recon King's landing. If he can possibly take over flocks of birds to attack ballista soldiers, do so.

This all seems good, though its debatable what the extent of Bran's powers are, and what he's willing to do. So much depends on God-Emperor Bran and his ineffable plan.

I agree very strongly about keeping Jaime alive if possible, and not only because I like the character. I want to use Jaime to create a new narrative, of a Kingsguard that serves the realm instead of whoever happens to wear the Crown at the moment, and will act as a check on tyrannical rulers. To create a culture of institutional loyalty rather than loyalty to individuals.

Assault on King's Landing -
Any enemy soldier that surrenders once we breach the walls, is to be taken hostage.
I'll be extracting pleadges of fealty from their families (if noble), or use them as enforced labor for a few months.

This will slow down the assault on King's Landing as prisoners are taken, but will show the common folk, the new rulers are good.

I have no problem laying seige to King's Landing. Also, I'm sure Varys knows how to sneak people in.

And if Arya happens to kill Cersei + co, takes her face, and surrenders, so much the better.

No matter what, however, the Golden Company is getting cooked. Why?
Cause they will not surrender.

Will they really fight to the last man if the person who's paying them is dead/captured/surrendered? One doubts they would have survived so long as a mercenary company if that was their mindset.

As Jon
1 - Suggest the above to Daenerys.

2 - Tell her who I am, then tell her I love her, and ask Daenerys to marry me.

3 - Ask to be put in charge of the Assault on King's Landing, so I can hand her the city as a wedding gift. A public declaration that I recognize her as the rightful ruler of Westros.

4 - Not tell anyone who I am, until after we've married. Swear Bran and Samwell to secrecy in the meantime. (Actually, I don't think I need to, but still....)

I'm hoping not having Varys semi-move against her, my parentage secret, her having the love she wants, and her best friend alive, will keep her temper in check.

Probably the best course of action.

There's the whole icky incest thing, but Targaryens don't care, I wouldn't really see Danny as my relative, and there's no real risk of little Joffreys being born, due to Danny being unable to have children.

Arya - Is effectively off the table. She left with Hound on her own with out a word to anyone. You cannot really count on Arya to provide any assistance due to her being a lone wolf player for some time.
At best, you can point her in the direction of Ceseri and wait, either Ayra will follow through or the Hound will manage to talk Arya out of it and all you really have achieved is waste a bit of time on a loose cannon.

Fair point. But there's a good chance she'll take care of the Cersei problem for us, if we wait a few weeks.

The practical way to go about things without abusing fore-knowledge. Allow the armies to rest, recover and march as a singular force to Kings Landing.
With two dragons and rested army, the march south to Kings Landing might take a bit but it will be unchallenged. Euron's fleet cannot do anything and any attempt to engage is going up against a rested army and two dragons.
Ceseri using the population as human shields will eventually strain King's Landing resources to the point they eventually bleed out and cannot fight allowing for a bloodless waltz into King's Landing as liberators.

Yes. And "Cersei used you as shields, we saved you" is a pretty good propaganda point, too.

The time can also be used to whip people into line, specifically, Sansa, Bran and Varys. Although, if you change events this way... a problem does occur in that Varys may not reveal his intentions to Jon or Tyrion before he makes his own play. Dany has no knowledge of what is coming and without exceptional luck, Varys will likely poison her and game over. Dragon fucks off along with all of the forces breaking into a civil war. Ceseri ends up the default winner and can wait to wipe out whats left.

So Varys has an... accident.

Or, if we can win Bran over, we ask Bran to keep an eye on him. He may not even move if Danny does a better job and he has no alternative candidate ready to go in Jon.

If worst comes to worst, I ask Drogon to catch and cook my food for me for a while.

If Dany dies, Jon is unlikely to pick up the mantle or be able to hold control of Dany's forces so the collapse is pretty much guaranteed. The only possible saving grace is Arya knocking out Ceseri. In which case, Bran ends up as king because Jon will fuck off and / or go into seclusion again.

Jon vs. Sansa - Jon is going to reveal his identity. That would seem all but certain given his behaviour so I do not really see events playing out any differently with the exception of the army aspect.

If you bring fore-sight into the equation -
As Dany
- Try to convince Jon to get his shit together. Marry the fucker if only for appearances. Impress upon him even further how dim he is being.

Jon is very much like Ned in that he will put duty over everything, except family. I can't really fault him for that, but in Danny's place I would try to impress on him that I am family too. Maybe compromise- you can come clean, but only after Cersei is beaten, we're married, and the realm is stabilized.

Unfortunately, as Dany you are fucked.
The moment Jon reveals his situation, Dany is stuck with an unwinnable situation.
The only way through it is to burn Bran, Sansa, Arya, Tyrion, Jon and Varys.

How do you burn God-Emperor Bran if he doesn't want to be burned? He's probably seen it coming, and there are decent odds he can warg into Drogon.

Fighting the Starks at this point is a losing proposition. They've all leveled up too much.

It really is an all-or-nothing situation because killing one will require nuking them all because the risk of leaving them is too great. This will cost Dany any loyalty with native Westeros forces which forces her to rely on Dragons, Dothraki and Unsullied alone.
Either this will result in Dany losing completely or a victory that will have her forever regarded as a Mad Queen with her only hope of holding onto power with the Dothraki and the Unsullied.

Yep. You need to win over the Starks, because they have protagonist character shields.

As Jon, entirely dependent on sensibilities.

Marry Dany - By far the best option. Swallow the pride and ignore the ick factor in a marriage. Or, take one for the kingdom and give Dany what she wants.

Simplest plan, but ties you in an incestuous relationship to a possibly unstable person while potentially pitting you against your family and kingdom. Could go well, or very very badly, depending on how stable Danny is in this scenario and how intractable Sansa, Bran, and Arya are.

The alternative and really out of character for Jon - Play the longer game. String Dany along and then have her 'knocked' off with the quiet help of Varys after King's Landing is taken then execute Varys on the spot.

As long as God-Emperor Bran doesn't intervene, you could probably pull it off.

The real issue is how much you want to accept the idea that Dany was always the Mad Queen and how much she will lose her shit. If you change events so that the Dragon does not die and Dany's adviser remains alive... Dany might stay sane.
The only potential source of a confrontation would be Sansa vs. Dany. In which case, Jon is stuck in the shitty situation.

I fully expect Jon would take out Dany to protect his family so... back to the same situation.

Yup.

[Esquire]

What I do is wait. Arya has already left to murder Cersei, I have no reason to hurry, no objection to the aforementioned murdering, and no special concern about my enemies' resolve after their leader is dead.

[Solauren]

Daenerys waiting is actually and option we overlook. Especially with Jon.

Jon has said he doesn't want the crown, loves her, and sees her as his queen.

So, take the throne, and have Jon crown her Queen. Then, if his heritage gets out, all he has to do is go 'Hey, I swore on my HONOR that she is my Queen, and I would support her claim to the Iron Throne."

If it's one thing the North understands, is honor and duty.

That should actually keep everyone happy. Daenerys is on the throne, yes, but she has an Heir, that everyone loves.

Problem is, Daenerys started losing her patience. In fact, I think it was the second Bran told her about the Night King bringing back one of her dragons. The Dothraki charge during the 'Battle for the Dawn' probably finished it off.

[Alyrium Denryle]

OK. Here is what I would do. I tell Jon to publicly announce his heritage and then renounce his claim to the Iron Throne in favor of being King in the North in his own right, as an independent state. I mean, fuck, I'm not insane if I'm in her headspace. I can *stand* to have a friendly independent north on my border. That makes Sansa happy, it makes the North happy.

I let the army rest up, and when I sail south, I use proper scouting to my fleet doesn't get jumped by Euron. What the hell was that? If the audience see it, the dragons can't? Fuck that, no. I use high altitude recon outside of ballista shot. I hold position until nightfall and then have the dragons jump the enemy fleet at night. Shocking. A single pass with dragonfire should wreck them thoroughly.

I surround the Kings Landing for a siege.

I ask Arya to finish off her List. Arya gets into Kings Landing, kills Cersei, and opens the fucking gates. My troops walk in without any alarms being sounded because Arya has slashed some throats...Done.

[The Romulan Republic]

OK. Here is what I would do. I tell Jon to publicly announce his heritage and then renounce his claim to the Iron Throne in favor of being King in the North in his own right, as an independent state. I mean, fuck, I'm not insane if I'm in her headspace. I can *stand* to have a friendly independent north on my border. That makes Sansa happy, it makes the North happy.

My practicality is at war with my hatred of secession movements on principle here, as well as my desire not to set a precedent encouraging other realms to secede.

But, its preferable to getting Bran-d. Or Arya-d. So I'd agree to this, on condition that Jon also agrees to a military alliance between our realms so I still have his support against Cersei. I'm not going to let the North sit on its ass after Unsullied and Dothraki bled and died defending Northern soil.

I let the army rest up, and when I sail south, I use proper scouting to my fleet doesn't get jumped by Euron. What the hell was that? If the audience see it, the dragons can't? Fuck that, no. I use high altitude recon outside of ballista shot. I hold position until nightfall and then have the dragons jump the enemy fleet at night. Shocking. A single pass with dragonfire should wreck them thoroughly.

I surround the Kings Landing for a siege.

I ask Arya to finish off her List. Arya gets into Kings Landing, kills Cersei, and opens the fucking gates. My troops walk in without any alarms being sounded because Arya has slashed some throats...Done.

That should about do it, yes.

[Tribble]

OK. Here is what I would do. I tell Jon to publicly announce his heritage and then renounce his claim to the Iron Throne in favor of being King in the North in his own right, as an independent state. I mean, fuck, I'm not insane if I'm in her headspace. I can *stand* to have a friendly independent north on my border. That makes Sansa happy, it makes the North happy.

My practicality is at war with my hatred of secession movements on principle here, as well as my desire not to set a precedent encouraging other realms to secede.

But, its preferable to getting Bran-d. Or Arya-d. So I'd agree to this, on condition that Jon also agrees to a military alliance between our realms so I still have his support against Cersei. I'm not going to let the North sit on its ass after Unsullied and Dothraki bled and died defending Northern soil.

I let the army rest up, and when I sail south, I use proper scouting to my fleet doesn't get jumped by Euron. What the hell was that? If the audience see it, the dragons can't? Fuck that, no. I use high altitude recon outside of ballista shot. I hold position until nightfall and then have the dragons jump the enemy fleet at night. Shocking. A single pass with dragonfire should wreck them thoroughly.

I surround the Kings Landing for a siege.

I ask Arya to finish off her List. Arya gets into Kings Landing, kills Cersei, and opens the fucking gates. My troops walk in without any alarms being sounded because Arya has slashed some throats...Done.

That should about do it, yes.

One problem is that even if Jon Snow actively rejects the Iron Throne and doesn't want it if word gets out of his heritage there will be plenty of people who will still conspire for him to get it anyways. Far better for everyone involved if you can convince him to keep his damn mouth shut.

Of course that depends on whether or not Bran is aiming for the throne; if so it'll be hard to keep him from spilling the beans one way or another.