Brexit and General UK politics thread

[GrosseAdmiralFox]

Again, how? To what rule are you appealing and how are they the exception that proves it? Back things up for once.

Let's see here... I'll have to dig up a few threads for this... and it'll take me a while as I'll be sifting through hundreds of pages to get what is needed.

[The Romulan Republic]

#AbolishtheMonarchy is now trending on Twitter, and some MPs have reportedly said that they will have to be forcibly removed from Parliament.


The Queen tried to be neutral in a time when neutrality is not possible. This is the inevitable consequence. Its unfortunate that this, along with the Royal Family's apologism for Prince Andrew's involvement in the Epstein case, may end up being among the final acts of a long and mostly distinguished reign, but there you go.

[ray245]

Sorry, Your Majesty: no one gets to be politically neutral in the face of rising fascism, not even the Queen. You're either part of the resistance, or a collaborator.

Do you not understand the point of a constitutional monarchy? Or are you just being idiotic in trying to frame everything in a simple black/white narrative?

Even if the queen personally object to it, her role as a constitutional monarch forbids her from taking any action against the government. It's not about the queen wanting to be politically neutral. She must be politically neutral unless you want to spark off another constitutional crisis in the midst of all this.

Seriously, your inability to react in any measured manner is only going to make it easier for far-right to portray left-wing members as idiots. All of your actions is actively hindering the progressive movement. Far-right loves people like you because they can use you as an example of idiotic left-wingers for them to bash and look smarter than they really are, because you give them an easy punching bag.

Oh, I'm sorry, I guess I should be more "moderate" and "civil", like all those Centrists Democrats who chided progressive activists for not being more polite to the people locking little children in cages. Look at the last twenty years and see where civility and cautiousness have gotten us when dealing with the Reich.

I'm not going to worry overmuch about how the neo-fascists will spin what I say. IT DOESN'T MATTER. In their narrative I am a communist and a terrorist promoting white genocide, and deserve to be murdered, simply because I'm not one of them. If I take a radical position, they'll call me a dangerous extremist. If I don't, they'll do that anyway, while also using me as an example of a cowardly Centrist who doesn't stand for anything, thereby "proving" that Both Sides Are Just As Bad.

I say what I think, and right or wrong, I'm not going to base it on trying to placate the Reich.

Hell, I've been compared to a collaborator on this board before for opposing Left-wing militia violence, so don't tell me to be more moderate in my response.

I know what the normally-expected role of the Queen is. I know that there's no good answer here. I also know that this motherfucker's going to start a recession, restart the Irish Troubles and decades of misery and bloodshed, and possibly lead to the disintegration of Britain as a country for the sake of appealing to racists to advance his personal power.

Edit: Fascists are like sharks. They smell weakness like sharks smell blood in the water, and it just encourages them to push further. I'm not saying we should be as violent or corrupt or dishonest or hateful as them, because if we were there'd be no point to any of this. But I'm done with "safe", "moderate" positions and trying not to sound too "extreme" because of how the fascists might react. You know what a fascist sees when they see a moderate?

An easy target.

And trying to blame the queen doesn't win you brownie points in the UK. You're giving free ammunition to the Tories and feeding the narrative that those opposing Brexit are anti British values.

Being "right" doesn't translate into the right movement at times. Instead of trying to focus attention on Boris Johnson, you got distracted by the monarchy doing it's constitutional role and ignore the government. You are terrible at directing your anger towards the people responsible for this.

You're not even living in the UK. I am. So stop fucking things up for people who actually live here.

[Tiriol]

#AbolishtheMonarchy is now trending on Twitter, and some MPs have reportedly said that they will have to be forcibly removed from Parliament.


The Queen tried to be neutral in a time when neutrality is not possible. This is the inevitable consequence. Its unfortunate that this, along with the Royal Family's apologism for Prince Andrew's involvement in the Epstein case, may end up being among the final acts of a long and mostly distinguished reign, but there you go.

As I understand, the Queen had no choice. She has to listen to the advice of her own government ministers and those creeps adviced her to do this idiotic thing. Those more in touch with British law can say if I am not correct, but that is how the constitutional monarchy works in the UK.

Privately the Queen seems to hold just about all modern British politicians in contempt for being so damn incompetent, but unless she wants to break laws of her own country, there's not much she can do. I suppose she could say she will step down from the throne, but that would only turn chaos into even more chaos.

[ray245]

#AbolishtheMonarchy is now trending on Twitter, and some MPs have reportedly said that they will have to be forcibly removed from Parliament.


The Queen tried to be neutral in a time when neutrality is not possible. This is the inevitable consequence. Its unfortunate that this, along with the Royal Family's apologism for Prince Andrew's involvement in the Epstein case, may end up being among the final acts of a long and mostly distinguished reign, but there you go.

The monarchy is extremely popular in the UK and any party that wants to abolish the monarchy is going to be politically suicidal.

The twitter hashtag is not even trending in the top 10. So stop being an overreacting idiot that friendly fire on your own goals.

[The Romulan Republic]

Do you not understand the point of a constitutional monarchy? Or are you just being idiotic in trying to frame everything in a simple black/white narrative?

Even if the queen personally object to it, her role as a constitutional monarch forbids her from taking any action against the government. It's not about the queen wanting to be politically neutral. She must be politically neutral unless you want to spark off another constitutional crisis in the midst of all this.

Seriously, your inability to react in any measured manner is only going to make it easier for far-right to portray left-wing members as idiots. All of your actions is actively hindering the progressive movement. Far-right loves people like you because they can use you as an example of idiotic left-wingers for them to bash and look smarter than they really are, because you give them an easy punching bag.

Oh, I'm sorry, I guess I should be more "moderate" and "civil", like all those Centrists Democrats who chided progressive activists for not being more polite to the people locking little children in cages. Look at the last twenty years and see where civility and cautiousness have gotten us when dealing with the Reich.

I'm not going to worry overmuch about how the neo-fascists will spin what I say. IT DOESN'T MATTER. In their narrative I am a communist and a terrorist promoting white genocide, and deserve to be murdered, simply because I'm not one of them. If I take a radical position, they'll call me a dangerous extremist. If I don't, they'll do that anyway, while also using me as an example of a cowardly Centrist who doesn't stand for anything, thereby "proving" that Both Sides Are Just As Bad.

I say what I think, and right or wrong, I'm not going to base it on trying to placate the Reich.

Hell, I've been compared to a collaborator on this board before for opposing Left-wing militia violence, so don't tell me to be more moderate in my response.

I know what the normally-expected role of the Queen is. I know that there's no good answer here. I also know that this motherfucker's going to start a recession, restart the Irish Troubles and decades of misery and bloodshed, and possibly lead to the disintegration of Britain as a country for the sake of appealing to racists to advance his personal power.

Edit: Fascists are like sharks. They smell weakness like sharks smell blood in the water, and it just encourages them to push further. I'm not saying we should be as violent or corrupt or dishonest or hateful as them, because if we were there'd be no point to any of this. But I'm done with "safe", "moderate" positions and trying not to sound too "extreme" because of how the fascists might react. You know what a fascist sees when they see a moderate?

An easy target.

And trying to blame the queen doesn't win you brownie points in the UK. You're giving free ammunition to the Tories and feeding the narrative that those opposing Brexit are anti British values.

Being "right" doesn't translate into the right movement at times. Instead of trying to focus attention on Boris Johnson, you got distracted by the monarchy doing it's constitutional role and ignore the government. You are terrible at directing your anger towards the people responsible for this.

You're not even living in the UK. I am. So stop fucking things up for people who actually live here.

#AbolishtheMonarchy is now trending on Twitter, and some MPs have reportedly said that they will have to be forcibly removed from Parliament.


The Queen tried to be neutral in a time when neutrality is not possible. This is the inevitable consequence. Its unfortunate that this, along with the Royal Family's apologism for Prince Andrew's involvement in the Epstein case, may end up being among the final acts of a long and mostly distinguished reign, but there you go.

The monarchy is extremely popular in the UK and any party that wants to abolish the monarchy is going to be politically suicidal.

The twitter hashtag is not even trending in the top 10. So stop being an overreacting idiot that friendly fire on your own goals.

I doubt anything I say in this thread will have a profound effect on British politics. But don't worry, I've got plenty of rage and bile for Boris Johnson too. I believe I've already called him a motherfucker at least twice in this thread in the last couple of days, as well as a fascist. I would use Pigfucker, but David Cameron already claimed that distinction. But I'm not going to spare the Queen from criticism.

I didn't know that you lived in the UK, but:

I'm an internationalist. I believe that because we live in an interconnected world, especially now, in the age of instant global mass communication, air lines, and climate change. I understand that this will offend many people, for which I am sorry, but I do not feel that the events of other countries are "none of my business". Brexit will to some extent effect the world, and what is happening in England is part of a global Neo-Fascist movement which poses an existential threat to the entire world. So I'm afraid that I do consider it my business, just as Donald Trump is (regrettably) the business of everyone on this planet.

[ray245]

Oh, I'm sorry, I guess I should be more "moderate" and "civil", like all those Centrists Democrats who chided progressive activists for not being more polite to the people locking little children in cages. Look at the last twenty years and see where civility and cautiousness have gotten us when dealing with the Reich.

I'm not going to worry overmuch about how the neo-fascists will spin what I say. IT DOESN'T MATTER. In their narrative I am a communist and a terrorist promoting white genocide, and deserve to be murdered, simply because I'm not one of them. If I take a radical position, they'll call me a dangerous extremist. If I don't, they'll do that anyway, while also using me as an example of a cowardly Centrist who doesn't stand for anything, thereby "proving" that Both Sides Are Just As Bad.

I say what I think, and right or wrong, I'm not going to base it on trying to placate the Reich.

Hell, I've been compared to a collaborator on this board before for opposing Left-wing militia violence, so don't tell me to be more moderate in my response.

I know what the normally-expected role of the Queen is. I know that there's no good answer here. I also know that this motherfucker's going to start a recession, restart the Irish Troubles and decades of misery and bloodshed, and possibly lead to the disintegration of Britain as a country for the sake of appealing to racists to advance his personal power.

Edit: Fascists are like sharks. They smell weakness like sharks smell blood in the water, and it just encourages them to push further. I'm not saying we should be as violent or corrupt or dishonest or hateful as them, because if we were there'd be no point to any of this. But I'm done with "safe", "moderate" positions and trying not to sound too "extreme" because of how the fascists might react. You know what a fascist sees when they see a moderate?

An easy target.

And trying to blame the queen doesn't win you brownie points in the UK. You're giving free ammunition to the Tories and feeding the narrative that those opposing Brexit are anti British values.

Being "right" doesn't translate into the right movement at times. Instead of trying to focus attention on Boris Johnson, you got distracted by the monarchy doing it's constitutional role and ignore the government. You are terrible at directing your anger towards the people responsible for this.

You're not even living in the UK. I am. So stop fucking things up for people who actually live here.

#AbolishtheMonarchy is now trending on Twitter, and some MPs have reportedly said that they will have to be forcibly removed from Parliament.


The Queen tried to be neutral in a time when neutrality is not possible. This is the inevitable consequence. Its unfortunate that this, along with the Royal Family's apologism for Prince Andrew's involvement in the Epstein case, may end up being among the final acts of a long and mostly distinguished reign, but there you go.

The monarchy is extremely popular in the UK and any party that wants to abolish the monarchy is going to be politically suicidal.

The twitter hashtag is not even trending in the top 10. So stop being an overreacting idiot that friendly fire on your own goals.

I doubt anything I say in this thread will have a profound effect on British politics. But don't worry, I've got plenty of rage and bile for Boris Johnson too. I believe I've already called him a motherfucker at least twice in this thread in the last couple of days, as well as a fascist. I would use Pigfucker, but David Cameron already claimed that distinction. But I'm not going to spare the Queen from criticism.

I didn't know that you lived in the UK, but:

I'm an internationalist. I believe that because we live in an interconnected world, especially now, in the age of instant global mass communication, air lines, and climate change. I understand that this will offend many people, for which I am sorry, but I do not feel that the events of other countries are "none of my business". Brexit will to some extent effect the world, and what is happening in England is part of a global Neo-Fascist movement which poses an existential threat to the entire world. So I'm afraid that I do consider it my business, just as Donald Trump is (regrettably) the business of everyone on this planet.

You won't have an impact on UK politics, but the discourse you adopt regarding what is happening in the UK is terrible and the exact kind of response Tories loves.

You being an internationalist is not an excuse from being ill-informed on how politics work at the national level and how being anger at stuff won't actually help things but making things worse.

Do you know how popular the monarchy is in the UK? Republicans are a tiny minority, and even Jeremy Corbyn who is a Republican knows it will be the end of the party if he pushed for the abolition of the monarchy in the UK.

So kindly read more and THINK more before jumping to conclusions over what's the best reaction to have. Your ill thought out response is on par with Boris Johnson's ideas and views.

[The Romulan Republic]

Equating me to a fascist like Boris Johnson is a gross insult, but since it is clearly intended to bait me, I shall give it no further time.

As to my views on the monarchy, my convictions are not contingent upon the approval of the British electorate.

[AniThyng]

Equating me to a fascist like Boris Johnson is a gross insult, but since it is clearly intended to bait me, I shall give it no further time.

As to my views on the monarchy, my convictions are not contingent upon the approval of the British electorate.

I get that you wanted this to be the point where the monarch stepped in to overrule the prime minister, but I fail to see how the outcome would have been any different in any other scenario where the government of the UK was run by a pro Brexit government except for one in which the monarch equivalent was going to explicitly pick a political side, and that side is not that of the government party.

[The Romulan Republic]

Equating me to a fascist like Boris Johnson is a gross insult, but since it is clearly intended to bait me, I shall give it no further time.

As to my views on the monarchy, my convictions are not contingent upon the approval of the British electorate.

I get that you wanted this to be the point where the monarch stepped in to overrule the prime minister, but I fail to see how the outcome would have been any different in any other scenario where the government of the UK was run by a pro Brexit government except for one in which the monarch equivalent was going to explicitly pick a political side, and that side is not that of the government party.

I mean, I was anti-monarchy before this, and whatever personal respect I had for Elizabeth the Second was already crumbling over the Royal Family standing by Andrew in the Epstein affair. So its not like its just this issue- its more like the final straw for me.

And I do understand that there are all sorts of traditions and expectations and precedents weighing on the Queen's decision. I get that there's no really good option here. But I stand by what I said: you don't get to be neutral about fascism, and if you try, you'll end up being branded one of the collaborators. Doesn't matter if its fair or not, doesn't matter what your reasons were. That's what will happen. Even if the law required her to do this, I am sure that she has ways of making her displeasure known. This is a crisis for her country, and while I don't give a fig for the legitimacy of the monarchy, she owes it to her country as a resident of the UK and (presumably) a patriot to try to do something besides sitting there and rubber-stamping Boris Johnson's requests while the country slides into the abyss.

[LaCroix]

The Queen was in hot water, anyway. Whatever she did was going to cause a constitutional crisis.
Defy the Government of the UK (who was doing something perfectly legal, abeit for fishy reasons)? Thats going to upset 50% of the people.
Defy Parliament by doing the perfectly legal thing - 50% of people are upset.

In the end, she chose the thing that did less damage to the constitution, and trusted in Parliament to use the next 2 weeks to figure out how to stop it.

In a way, she forced Parliaments hand - either stop squabbling and finally solve this Brexit thing that you are kicking down the road for more than a year now with multiple extensions and still no solution (since there is none that anyone can find), revoke Article 50, or just get that stupid No-Deal so we can get on with it and start rebuilding.

Right now, Britain is already suffering from Brexit, hard, but not willing to back down or go ahead.
Tough love and all that crap, but honestly, it needs to be done, or we will see Brexit still be going on in the year 2525 (if man is still alive...)

[ray245]

Equating me to a fascist like Boris Johnson is a gross insult, but since it is clearly intended to bait me, I shall give it no further time.

As to my views on the monarchy, my convictions are not contingent upon the approval of the British electorate.

Perhaps if you bother to think about the consequences of what you are pushing for, people won't be annoyed with you that easily.

You want to burn down the house just to get some feel good bonus points for yourself. That's not progressivism. That's selfish comfort blanket.

You're anti-monarchist, and your solution is to essentially put an end to constitutional monarchy by giving the monarch more political power to stop fascism.

[The Romulan Republic]

Equating me to a fascist like Boris Johnson is a gross insult, but since it is clearly intended to bait me, I shall give it no further time.

As to my views on the monarchy, my convictions are not contingent upon the approval of the British electorate.

Perhaps if you bother to think about the consequences of what you are pushing for, people won't be annoyed with you that easily.

You want to burn down the house just to get some feel good bonus points for yourself. That's not progressivism. That's selfish comfort blanket.

Don't attribute motives to me if you don't want me to attribute motives to you.

Anyway, I'm done with this tangent now. Feel free to scream into the void about what a bad man I am if you want to score some brownie points with the board.

[ray245]

Equating me to a fascist like Boris Johnson is a gross insult, but since it is clearly intended to bait me, I shall give it no further time.

As to my views on the monarchy, my convictions are not contingent upon the approval of the British electorate.

Perhaps if you bother to think about the consequences of what you are pushing for, people won't be annoyed with you that easily.

You want to burn down the house just to get some feel good bonus points for yourself. That's not progressivism. That's selfish comfort blanket.

Don't attribute motives to me if you don't want me to attribute motives to you.

Anyway, I'm done with this tangent now. Feel free to scream into the void about what a bad man I am if you want to score some brownie points with the board.

If you don't want people to criticise you, how about think about an issue carefully instead of ranting and making things worse for the people who actually live here?

If what you are doing is helping to make things worse for the people living here, kindly fuck off. You're being a complete ass.

[AniThyng]

As far as I can see, if there was no monarch and the UK was a Westminster style Republic, the figurehead President would either be neutral, voted in on a 51% margin to be pro Brexit or 51% margin to be anti Brexit. 2/3 possibilities still lead to the same place...

[ray245]

As far as I can see, if there was no monarch and the UK was a Westminster style Republic, the figurehead President would either be neutral, voted in on a 51% margin to be pro Brexit or 51% margin to be anti Brexit. 2/3 possibilities still lead to the same place...

Exactly. There's no point of saying how the queen is evil other than virtue signalling and being selfish about it.

[Gandalf]

Again, how? To what rule are you appealing and how are they the exception that proves it? Back things up for once.

Let's see here... I'll have to dig up a few threads for this... and it'll take me a while as I'll be sifting through hundreds of pages to get what is needed.

Sure you will.

[The Romulan Republic]

As far as I can see, if there was no monarch and the UK was a Westminster style Republic, the figurehead President would either be neutral, voted in on a 51% margin to be pro Brexit or 51% margin to be anti Brexit. 2/3 possibilities still lead to the same place...

Exactly. There's no point of saying how the queen is evil other than virtue signalling and being selfish about it.

Okay, I know I probably shouldn't take the flame bait, but...

"virtue signalling"? That term implies that I am adopting a position simply to make myself look good. To which I ask: what the fuck are you smoking? If anything I have done on this board was done with the intent to burnish my reputation, then clearly it was a massive fucking failure.

"virtue signalling" is also basically an Alt. Reich buzzword used to put down and discredit any progressive view point. So, fuck you for using Alt. Reich code speak.

[K. A. Pital]

Monarchy is dumb, tho.

I can understand that people like to punch TRR for saying something stupid, but monarchy is also stupid, just as stupid or even stupider than his comments. It is idiot äic hereditary rule based on blood, basically aristos who are called noble just for being born, simply for existing. The Epstein-friendly prince proves that birth has nothing to do with kindness; people are just people, and elites are often scum. Making elites hereditary is just giving scum birthright.

Its popularity just poorly reflects on the populace of the UK. Just like Brexit, Bojo, etc.

/end of republican screed

[The Romulan Republic]

Monarchy is dumb, tho.

I can understand that people like to punch TRR for saying something stupid, but monarchy is also stupid, just as stupid or even stupider than his comments. It is idiot äic hereditary rule based on blood, basically aristos who are called noble just for being born, simply for existing. The Epstein-friendly prince proves that birth has nothing to do with kindness; people are just people, and elites are often scum. Making elites hereditary is just giving scum birthright.

Its popularity just poorly reflects on the populace of the UK. Just like Brexit, Bojo, etc.

/end of republican screed

Yeah, hereditary monarchy essentially operates on the same fundamental idea as racism: the idea that some people are innately better than others based on heredity. Fuck that.

To quote possibly my favorite bit of dialogue from Game of Thrones:

Joffrey: "You're talking to a king!"

Tyrion slaps Joffrey.

"And now I've struck a king. Did my hand fall from my wrist?"

[ray245]

Okay, I know I probably shouldn't take the flame bait, but...

"virtue signalling"? That term implies that I am adopting a position simply to make myself look good. To which I ask: what the fuck are you smoking? If anything I have done on this board was done with the intent to burnish my reputation, then clearly it was a massive fucking failure.

"virtue signalling" is also basically an Alt. Reich buzzword used to put down and discredit any progressive view point. So, fuck you for using Alt. Reich code speak.

You said you don't give a crap about the opinions of the people in the UK. What else is it aside from being virtue signalling?

Yes, alt-right love to use terms like virtue signalling to discredit the left, but there are times and people who do exactly just that. What benefit does it serve for UK to end up in a constitutional crisis in the midst of Brexit other than you using it as a platform to talk to everyone how monarchy is bad.

So yes, you can sod off with your virtue signalling, because it's clear you don't give a damn about the people actually affected by Brexit.

Monarchy is dumb, tho.

I can understand that people like to punch TRR for saying something stupid, but monarchy is also stupid, just as stupid or even stupider than his comments. It is idiot äic hereditary rule based on blood, basically aristos who are called noble just for being born, simply for existing. The Epstein-friendly prince proves that birth has nothing to do with kindness; people are just people, and elites are often scum. Making elites hereditary is just giving scum birthright.

Its popularity just poorly reflects on the populace of the UK. Just like Brexit, Bojo, etc.

/end of republican screed

So what if there is an issue with monarchy in principal? Jeremy Corbyn is a staunch republican and even he is not idiotic enough to pick unnecessarily fight at the wrong time.

You can't win every fight, so you have to be sensible and pick the battles you can win.

[Vendetta]

Yes, alt-right love to use terms like virtue signalling to discredit the left, but there are times and people who do exactly just that. What benefit does it serve for UK to end up in a constitutional crisis in the midst of Brexit other than you using it as a platform to talk to everyone how monarchy is bad.

Point of order: The UK is already in a constitutional crisis in the middle of Brexit, and by allowing a hostile prorogation when it is known not to be the will of the parliament queenie has allowed it to continue (partly because whatever she actually did would be a constitutional crisis anyway, but this one is still Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson*'s making).




* Who should be referred to by his full name to remind everyone what an unspeakable toff he is.

[The Romulan Republic]

Yes, alt-right love to use terms like virtue signalling to discredit the left, but there are times and people who do exactly just that. What benefit does it serve for UK to end up in a constitutional crisis in the midst of Brexit other than you using it as a platform to talk to everyone how monarchy is bad.

Point of order: The UK is already in a constitutional crisis in the middle of Brexit, and by allowing a hostile prorogation when it is known not to be the will of the parliament queenie has allowed it to continue (partly because whatever she actually did would be a constitutional crisis anyway, but this one is still Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson*'s making).




* Who should be referred to by his full name to remind everyone what an unspeakable toff he is.

Exactly.

[ray245]

Point of order: The UK is already in a constitutional crisis in the middle of Brexit, and by allowing a hostile prorogation when it is known not to be the will of the parliament queenie has allowed it to continue (partly because whatever she actually did would be a constitutional crisis anyway, but this one is still Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson*'s making).


* Who should be referred to by his full name to remind everyone what an unspeakable toff he is.

You don't resolve a constitutional crisis by adding an even larger constitutional crisis to the existing problem. What purpose does it serve? The people pushing for Brexit is already buying into the idea that the "elite politicians" at Westminster is taking power away from them. Asking a Monarch to put a stop to Brexit is most certainly not helping things at all.

[The Romulan Republic]

Point of order: The UK is already in a constitutional crisis in the middle of Brexit, and by allowing a hostile prorogation when it is known not to be the will of the parliament queenie has allowed it to continue (partly because whatever she actually did would be a constitutional crisis anyway, but this one is still Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson*'s making).


* Who should be referred to by his full name to remind everyone what an unspeakable toff he is.

You don't resolve a constitutional crisis by adding an even larger constitutional crisis to the existing problem.

You don't beat fascism by constantly giving into it because standing up to it might be too controversial.