The Clone Wars

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2003-03-29 07:44pm

I was just reading the Heir to the Empire trilogy this week and something Mara Jade said in it bothered me. When Luke thanks her for her help in the war against Thrawn she said something like "I wasn't gonna sit back and let another bunch of cold faced clones try and tak over the Galaxy...."

This suggests that the Clones where the bad guys in the CW. If this gonna be adopted in the SW 3 thus destroying the myth about stormies and clones or will this wee comment be ignored? Just currious on your thoughts about this.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-03-29 07:48pm

LFL hasn't released their continuity fix for Spaarti-type clones yet.

paladin · Post by **paladin** » 2003-03-29 09:15pm

The history written about the Clone Wars will probably state that the Clones were responsible for starting the war. Probably done by an Imperial historian to further tarnish the Old Republic or shows its corruption.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-03-30 01:36am

Maybe the Republic-friendly Kaminoan Prime Minister Lama Su would be overthrown through some fabricated "watergate scandal" ordered by Seperatist conspirators and replaced by somebody who sympathizes with the Seperatists. Or maybe the Seperatists will start cloning their own Clonetroopers by themselves.

It could also be that the Clonetroopers rebel against the fading Republic.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-03-30 02:16am

Until we know what the history of the Clone Wars is, this all speculation. But I wouldn't be suprised if the clones (and probably the Jedi) did wind up the fall guys in all of it.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-03-30 03:29am

Stormbringer wrote:Until we know what the history of the Clone Wars is, this all speculation. But I wouldn't be suprised if the clones (and probably the Jedi) did wind up the fall guys in all of it.

If the Clones did take the fall, it'd be very strange that the Empire would retain their style of uniform etc in the Stormtroopers.

Lord_Xerxes · Post by **Lord_Xerxes** » 2003-03-30 12:26pm

I don't think it's the Clones taking the fall, it's the Jedi. Something is gonna happen to lower public opinion of them, and the angle of the war will change. The clones will switch gears from the Seperatists to the Jedi...and suddenly the Clone Troopers will be shooting at the people they've been fighting alongside.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-03-30 01:11pm

Vympel wrote:If the Clones did take the fall, it'd be very strange that the Empire would retain their style of uniform etc in the Stormtroopers.

Probably. Assuming it was solely the Old Republican/Early Imperial forces that had clones. It sounds to me like both sides had them and let them run wild to a degree.

It's possible the Seperatist's whipped up a clone army via the Spaarti's and they were the unstable ones. Remember the Republic's army was made over the better part of a decade. The Seperatists probably have a year or two at most to match them.

Palpatine's clearly set up the Sepratists up for the fall and it'd only help to demonize their clone army, especially if they were an unstable type of Clone.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2003-03-30 11:12pm

Stormbringer wrote:Until we know what the history of the Clone Wars is, this all speculation. But I wouldn't be suprised if the clones (and probably the Jedi) did wind up the fall guys in all of it.

IIRC in the begining scroll of AotC, the Grand Army of the Republic was created to help the JEDI maintain order in the galaxy. It was meant to supliment the JEDI order, so if the Jedi where set up to look like the bad guys sometime in Ep III or later, then the Clone army by default gets some blame too. However, since it was a propaganda victory for Palpitine to destroy the credibility of the Jedi in the first place, then it is reasonable to say that perhaps the clone troopers became stormtroopers at that point to erease the black spot in their history by being involved with the evil JEDI.

OR something like that.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-03-30 11:20pm

Yes, remember that the Clonetroopers are going to be commanded by Jedi often in this war, and might be mistrusted as a result.

Esp. if the Confederacy uses Spaarti clones later as has been suggested.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-03-31 06:49am

Illuminatus Primus wrote: Esp. if the Confederacy uses Spaarti clones later as has been suggested.

Interesting - although this doesn't explain why the heck the Empire would use Spaarti clones.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-03-31 09:45am

It's possible only the Emperor used Spaarti cylinders...after the Clone Wars.

Though since Zahn is writing a couple Clone Wars books it'll be interesting how he tries to fit that statement into his own words.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2003-03-31 11:39am

I am pretty sure it was called the clone wars because both sides used clones. The best sources I have indicate that the Mandalorans become the major bad guys (possibly taking over the war from the seperatists) and as a result are wiped out by the Jedi. It is after the clone wars that the Jedi Purge happens.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2003-03-31 12:53pm

Aye maybe the Mandalorians come out of the wood work because of Mace killing oen of their own.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-03-31 01:01pm

Simon H.Johansen wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote: Esp. if the Confederacy uses Spaarti clones later as has been suggested.
Interesting - although this doesn't explain why the heck the Empire would use Spaarti clones.

To replace heavy combat losses perhaps. A clone that takes a matter of months is going to be more useful in that regard than a clone that takes ten years to train or even a recruit that takes a year or two.

That's assmuming that Palpatine didn't have those cloning cylinders simply because he could and/or wanted them for nefarious puropses of his own.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2003-03-31 03:07pm

I wouldn't count on hearing anything about Spaarti clones in EpIII. Maybe there'll be some EU fixes, since Ghost Rider said Zahn is doing some CW books.

How can you place blame on the actual Clone Army? There basically like the Sepratist droids, ie-mere tools, no individuality ect. I don't see anyone placing blame on the CIS's droids BTW, all blame is placed on the leaders of the movement, like Dooku and Gunray. And how can you place blame on the Jedi, without placing blame on Palpatine? After all, the Jedi are just following orders under Palpatine's rule.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-03-31 03:12pm

Simon H.Johansen wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote: Esp. if the Confederacy uses Spaarti clones later as has been suggested.
Interesting - although this doesn't explain why the heck the Empire would use Spaarti clones.

Much MUCH cheaper.

SpyderGS · Post by **SpyderGS** » 2003-03-31 03:14pm

The seperatists should get their own damn clones, otherwise it really doesn't justify the name clone wars (unless the clones somehow turn on their masters). Personally I think there is a lot to get set straight with Ep III and I am very intersted in seeing how GL pulls this off. And very skeptical that he can do it without raising hordes of new questions.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-03-31 03:38pm

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:How can you place blame on the actual Clone Army? There basically like the Sepratist droids, ie-mere tools, no individuality ect. I don't see anyone placing blame on the CIS's droids BTW, all blame is placed on the leaders of the movement, like Dooku and Gunray. And how can you place blame on the Jedi, without placing blame on Palpatine? After all, the Jedi are just following orders under Palpatine's rule.

That depends. He could engineer some sort of "betrayal" in which the Jedi and their clone army try to seize control of the republic or something. The Clones and the Jedi get the blame.

Lonestar · Post by **Lonestar** » 2003-03-31 06:10pm

Zahn's writing CW books? When was this let out?

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2003-03-31 06:32pm

SpyderGS wrote:The seperatists should get their own damn clones, otherwise it really doesn't justify the name clone wars

Maybe they`ll get their clone army

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2003-03-31 06:54pm

Lonestar wrote:Zahn's writing CW books? When was this let out?

A few months ago. Check http://www.starwars.com.

Boba Fett · Post by **Boba Fett** » 2003-04-01 04:27am

Darth Pounder wrote:Aye maybe the Mandalorians come out of the wood work because of Mace killing oen of their own.

No they won't. The mandalorians fought in the Great Hyperspace war...

Jango has nothing to do with them, he's just wearing a mandalorian armor.

Let's get back to the topic:

Palpy has the right to deploy the Grand Army where he wants it.

The troopers are loyal to him not to the Jedi, since he's the Prime Chancellor. All he has to do is to declare the Jedis as the enemy of the Republic because of their role in creating an army for the Republic without the permission of the Senate. They should be charged with the crime of organizing a coupe d'etat...

Of course it's not true but sounds good enough for Palpy and for that big group in the Senate which is against the jedis.

Next step is to declare all the possible "enemies" of Palpy as Separatists and finish them off. Straight line to the Empire...

Just a theory although...

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2003-04-01 08:44am

The Heir to the Empire trilogy throws reference to Dark Jedi and clones,and more importantly,mad clones.

So,here's my take on the story.

The immense losses suffered by the Jedi at Genosis creates a rift in the Jedi Order,between the old and wise who holds to Yoda words and the newer generation,led most probably by Anakin.

In order to replace ever-growing clonetrooper losses and prevent the loss of even more Jedi deaths through the use of the clonetrooper subsitute,they shortened the clonetrooper growth rate from what I personally believe is one year{with 9 years of training and acclimation,in accordance to Karrde},to ever shorter growth rates,including flash imprinting.

Now,what happens is that because of a "Jedi Failure",a significant amount of clonetroopers went mad and went on a rampage through the SWU.Combined with already significant collateral damage through Jedi led operations,the universe turns against the Jedi and the Old Republic.

And Palpatine reconciles the feud,taking the wind out of the Seperatists by regaining the various guilds etc,with this act,he throws the blame for the war on the Jedi and wins popular support for creating peace through superior firepower.

This follows in line with the Journal of the Whillis account,in which Palpatine arise to Emperor through the power of commerce and other money-grubbers/

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-04-01 10:26am

Pain Rack: Not a bad theory actually. It's certainly plausible. I doubt Anakin will get nailed with the blame for the Clone Wars but other than that I think it's possible.