Male Chinese ‘Relatives’ Assigned to Uyghur Homes Co-sleep With Female ‘Hosts’

[TimothyC]

Male Han Chinese “relatives” assigned to monitor the homes of Uyghur families in northwest China’s Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region (XUAR) regularly sleep in the same beds as the wives of men detained in the region’s internment camps, according to sources who have overseen the forced stayovers.

Since late 2017, Muslim—and particularly Uyghur—families in the XUAR have been required to invite officials into their homes and provide them with information about their lives and political views, while hosts are also subjected to political indoctrination.

The “Pair Up and Become Family” program is one of several repressive policies targeting Uyghurs in the region, which have also seen the build out of a vast network of camps, where authorities have held up to 1.5 million Uyghurs and other Muslim ethnic minorities accused of harboring “strong religious views” and “politically incorrect” ideas since April 2017.

RFA’s Uyghur Service recently spoke about the program with a ruling Communist Party cadre in Kashgar (in Chinese, Kashi) prefecture’s Yengisar (Yingjisha) county, who said that 70 to 80 families in the township he oversees have Chinese, mostly male, “relatives” that stay for up to six days at each household—many of which have male family members in detention.

“The ‘relatives’ come to visit us here every two months … they stay with their paired relatives day and night,” he said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

“They help [the families] with their ideology, bringing new ideas. They talk to them about life, during which time they develop feelings for one another.”

In addition to working and eating together, over the course of the week that they spend with their Uyghur hosts the officials even sleep in the same bed as family members, the cadre said, particularly during the winter.

“Normally one or two people sleep in one bed, and if the weather is cold, three people sleep together,” he said.

When asked whether any families have spoken out against male officials staying at their homes, particularly in situations where no male family members are present because they have been detained in camps, the cadre said that on the contrary, “they are very keen, and offer them whatever they have.”

“We also try to help them to make proper [sleeping] arrangements,” he said.

Reports suggest that Uyghurs who protest hosting “relatives” as part of the Pair Up and Become Family program, or refuse to take part in study sessions or other activities with the officials in their homes, are subject to additional restrictions or could face detention in the camp system.

According to the cadre, if a household does not have a bed, family members and “relatives” all sleep on the same sleeping platform, with a small amount of space between one another.

“If the width of the room is three meters (10 feet), the platform tends to be approximately two and half meters (eight feet),” he said.

“If everyone can fit, they all sleep there.”

The cadre said he had “never heard” of any situations in which male officials had attempted to take advantage of female members of the households they stayed in, and suggested “it is now considered normal for females to sleep on the same platform with their paired male ‘relatives.’”

The head of a local neighborhood committee in Yengisar county, who also declined to be named, confirmed that male officials regularly sleep in the same beds or sleeping platforms with female members of Uyghur households during their home stays.

“Yes, they all sleep on the same platform,” the committee chief said, adding that it is considered acceptable for “relatives” and hosts to keep a distance of one meter (three feet) between them at night.

No women have complained about the situation of co-sleeping, he said, and local officials have promoted the practice as a means by which to “promote ethnic unity.”

‘Forced assimilation’

According to New York-based Human Rights Watch (HRW), in December 2017, authorities greatly expanded the October 2016 Pair Up and Become Family drive—which saw more than 100,000 officials visit mostly Uyghur homes in southern XUAR every two months—to mobilize more than a million cadres to spend a week living in homes, primarily in rural areas.

The “home stay” program was extended in early 2018 and cadres now spend at least five days every two months in the families’ homes, HRW said, adding that “there is no evidence to suggest that families can refuse such visits.”

Activities that take place during visits are documented in reports with accompanying photos—many of which can be found on the social media accounts of participating agencies—and show scenes of “relatives” involved in intimate aspects of domestic life, such as making beds and sleeping together, sharing meals, and feeding and tutoring children. There is no indication the families have consented to posting these images online.

HRW has called the home stays an example of “deeply invasive forced assimilation practices” and said they “not only violate basic rights, but are also likely to foster and deepen resentment in the region.”

Dolkun Isa, the president of the Munich-based World Uyghur Congress exile group, has said the “Pair Up and Become Family” campaign represents the “total annihilation of the safety, security and well-being of family members,” and that the program has “turned Uyghurs’ homes into prisons from which there is no escape.”

In July RFA spoke with a township and a village secretary in Hotan (Hetian) prefecture who both said that when “relatives” stay with their families to teach them the Chinese language and extol the virtues of Beijing’s policies in the region—often for around one week—they bring alcohol and meat that includes pork, and expect family members to consume them, against the principles of “halal” that govern what Muslims can eat and drink.

“We are not so insane as to tell them that we are Muslim, so we cannot eat the things they eat,” the secretary said at the time.

I'm certain that there are no instances of the men 'taking advantage of' the woman at all.

[The Romulan Republic]

State-sanctioned rape is a common tactic in ethnic cleansing campaigns.

Gonna be fun seeing how our board's China apologist contingent spins this one.

[mr friendly guy]

Before I answer(which will have to be a few days later since I am going to be busy for the next couple of days), do you have any evidence of Chinese attempting ethnic cleansing? Any examples in the history since the PRC was established.

[The Romulan Republic]

Before I answer(which will have to be a few days later since I am going to be busy for the next couple of days), do you have any evidence of Chinese attempting ethnic cleansing? Any examples in the history since the PRC was established.

Um... the ongoing mass detention of hundreds of thousands, possibly millions of Uyghurs?

[Alyrium Denryle]

Before I answer(which will have to be a few days later since I am going to be busy for the next couple of days), do you have any evidence of Chinese attempting ethnic cleansing? Any examples in the history since the PRC was established.

What is being described is literally an act of genocide. Imprisoning several million people in a given ethnic or religious group and forcibly indoctrinating their families - which evidently includes shifty practices like this that given the power asymmetry inevitably leads to rape - is textbook genocide.

Go fuck yourself.

[mr friendly guy]

Before I answer(which will have to be a few days later since I am going to be busy for the next couple of days), do you have any evidence of Chinese attempting ethnic cleansing? Any examples in the history since the PRC was established.

Um... the ongoing mass detention of hundreds of thousands, possibly millions of Uyghurs?

Before I answer(which will have to be a few days later since I am going to be busy for the next couple of days), do you have any evidence of Chinese attempting ethnic cleansing? Any examples in the history since the PRC was established.

What is being described is literally an act of genocide. Imprisoning several million people in a given ethnic or religious group and forcibly indoctrinating their families - which evidently includes shifty practices like this that given the power asymmetry inevitably leads to rape - is textbook genocide.

Go fuck yourself.

The Chinese preach propaganda, and attempt indoctrination. That's not the same as forcing people from their land or killing them. People have alleged the PRC committing genocide before even though the population of the group being victimised just keeps on increasing.

By all means criticise China for what its done. But when the accusations just get worse in the telling each time it just smacks of propaganda.

[MarxII]

Numerous among my third-hand acquaintances on social media seem quite convinced that the accusations of atrocities against Uighurs fall somewhere between overblown sensationalism and CIA-backed propaganda. I don't know if I believe it, but it does seem to be a widely, or at least loudly held belief.

[The Romulan Republic]

Numerous among my third-hand acquaintances on social media seem quite convinced that the accusations of atrocities against Uighurs fall somewhere between overblown sensationalism and CIA-backed propaganda. I don't know if I believe it, but it does seem to be a widely, or at least loudly held belief.

Numerous people on social media also believe that 9/11 was a false flag attack and that Obama was born in Kenya.

[wautd]

How trustworthy is this Radio Free Asia as a news scource? Because it sounds so much over the top that I have a hard time taking this seriously

[mr friendly guy]

How trustworthy is this Radio Free Asia as a news scource? Because it sounds so much over the top that I have a hard time taking this seriously

RFA is sponsored by the US state department. Even sinophobic posters on Spacebattles don't believe it.

I mean if I posted something from RT people would and have criticised me for posting it, then proceed to post an article from a "reputable" news source saying exactly the same thing. Apparently though, US funded mouthpieces are ok.

Edit - they source some claims in the article from the World Uyghur congress. A group which isn't exactly friendly towards China. Among their greatest hits are taking a video from CNN of a woman being assaulted in Iraq (you can't make out her face because she is constantly moving it and putting hands up to stop herself getting hit), and then uploading it and then saying it was Han Chinese bashing up an Uyghur woman, and showing a photo of Han Chinese protesting and saying look at the peaceful Uyghur protesters (this was in the context of being asked by Al Jazeera about violence by Uyghurs).

I am not saying china doesn't so some of this shit, but the number of Uyghurs incarcerated just gets higher and higher in each telling, first 1 million, then 2 million and now "several million," and it just reeks of propaganda.

[The Romulan Republic]

How much I'd trust a source funded by the US State Department depends to some extent on how much influence the Trumpers at the top (you know, the same guys strong-arming Ukraine for dirt on the Bidens and threatening their own co-workers for disloyalty) are wielding directly over it, to be frank.

[ray245]

How much I'd trust a source funded by the US State Department depends to some extent on how much influence the Trumpers at the top (you know, the same guys strong-arming Ukraine for dirt on the Bidens and threatening their own co-workers for disloyalty) are wielding directly over it, to be frank.

You do know that this is not something unique to Trump? The US has long been trying to shape political narratives to their interest ever since the cold war?

[The Romulan Republic]

How much I'd trust a source funded by the US State Department depends to some extent on how much influence the Trumpers at the top (you know, the same guys strong-arming Ukraine for dirt on the Bidens and threatening their own co-workers for disloyalty) are wielding directly over it, to be frank.

You do know that this is not something unique to Trump? The US has long been trying to shape political narratives to their interest ever since the cold war?

Yes, although the current administration has taken party-line loyalty and self-serving bullying of other nations to a level few if any other US administrations have.

I'm not saying its never happened before, but the degree and severity of such actions is on a whole new level now, and pretending otherwise is just shielding Trump and his cronies.

[ray245]

How much I'd trust a source funded by the US State Department depends to some extent on how much influence the Trumpers at the top (you know, the same guys strong-arming Ukraine for dirt on the Bidens and threatening their own co-workers for disloyalty) are wielding directly over it, to be frank.

You do know that this is not something unique to Trump? The US has long been trying to shape political narratives to their interest ever since the cold war?

Yes, although the current administration has taken party-line loyalty and self-serving bullying of other nations to a level few if any other US administrations have.

I'm not saying its never happened before, but the degree and severity of such actions is on a whole new level now, and pretending otherwise is just shielding Trump and his cronies.

But what does that got to do with questioning the narrative that came from the US state department?

[The Romulan Republic]

You do know that this is not something unique to Trump? The US has long been trying to shape political narratives to their interest ever since the cold war?

Yes, although the current administration has taken party-line loyalty and self-serving bullying of other nations to a level few if any other US administrations have.

I'm not saying its never happened before, but the degree and severity of such actions is on a whole new level now, and pretending otherwise is just shielding Trump and his cronies.

But what does that got to do with questioning the narrative that came from the US state department?

Might point is that I would regard the source has having less credibility if Trump or his appointees had a direct hand in it, as opposed to just career State Department employees who aren't Trumpist hacks.

[ray245]

And my point is it doesn't make that much difference whether it is under Trump or a Democrat president. There's a lot of institutional baggage with US foreign policy.

It is possible for China to indeed to be treating the uighur population horribly and for the US state department to blow it up beyond what's happening on the ground.

[madd0ct0r]

I am not saying china doesn't so some of this shit, but the number of Uyghurs incarcerated just gets higher and higher in each telling, first 1 million, then 2 million and now "several million," and it just reeks of propaganda.

Indeed.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/comme ... s-must-act

t has already been a year since the UN committee on the elimination of racial discrimination said it had credible evidence that more than 1 million ethnic Uighurs and minorities in China were being held in internment camps and forced into “political camps for indoctrination”, turning the Uighur autonomous region into a “no rights zone”.
As the United Nations General Assembly meets this week, UN chief António Guterres should denounce China’s crimes against Uighurs. On Tuesday, the US led more than 30 countries in condemning what it called China’s “horrific campaign of repression” against Muslims in Xinjiang. Assistant secretary of state John Sullivan said the UN and its member states had “a singular responsibility to speak up when survivor after survivor recounts the horrors of state repression”.
Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, almost all of the major independent media outlets, and many research organisations have published reports on mass detentions, the collection of DNA, surveillance, mosque demolishment, family separation and religious persecution that China has been launching against Uighur people as a part of campaign under the name of anti-extremism.


In a time when technology connects the world, Uighurs in China cannot use smartphones and computers safely because they have been forced to install spyware on their devices. Communication, over phone or through the internet, between Uighurs in the region and their family members abroad have been cut off. People have had their passports confiscated and cannot leave.
Millions of Uighur families are separated from each other and no family has been spared. One of the most heartbreaking campaigns of the Chinese government against Uighurs is the detention of Uighur children left behind when their parents have been detained. They are sent to state-run welfare institutions or boarding schools without their parents’ consent or access, according to a recent statement from Human Rights Watch.

Perhaps the number of Uighyrs incarcerated has got higher and higher?

[The Romulan Republic]

And my point is it doesn't make that much difference whether it is under Trump or a Democrat president. There's a lot of institutional baggage with US foreign policy.

There are plenty of problems with US foreign policy going back a long way, but that does not mean that it makes no difference whether its under Trump. This is just the same old tired "Both Sides are just as bad" horseshit which is constantly pumped into the media to exploit the cynicism and intellectual laziness of people who can't be bothered to make a more nuanced critique than "Everybody's just as bad!", and it normalizes the worst players while masking it behind a veneer of false "fairness".

Shit comments like this is how Trump, a man essentially running US foreign policy as a mafia racket, becomes normalized.

It is possible for China to indeed to be treating the uighur population horribly and for the US state department to blow it up beyond what's happening on the ground.

True. Now show me proof that the claims of millions of Uighurs from multiple sources, not all of them directly tied to the US government, are wrong. Or better yet, explain to me why the exact number of people being ethnically-cleansed matters, as opposed to, you know, the ethnic cleansing?

Am I misremembering, or did genocide apologism used to be an instant-ban offense on this board?

Edit: and before anyone tries to play the "You're a Western Imperialist" card on me- I also regard the Trump administration's actions towards Muslims and Latinos as a (limited, because Trump is incompetent and not yet a full dictator) attempt at ethnic cleansing, and have described the current regime's actions as such on multiple occassions. I'm only "pro-West" or "anti-China" on this issue insofar as I refuse to excuse or downplay genocide by non-western actors, because some things are just fucking evil no matter who does them or why.

[Zaune]

How trustworthy is this Radio Free Asia as a news scource? Because it sounds so much over the top that I have a hard time taking this seriously

Three years ago I would have said the same, but at this point I refuse to believe that anything is too ridiculous to be true. Except maybe if it's good news...

All the same, this has to take the cake for the level of sheer childish pettiness it takes to even think of doing something like this. I mean, for fucksake, they're already going all-out with cultural and possibly literal genocide; what do they think they're going to achieve by causing a wave of marital strife and gossip as well? This sort of passive-aggressive bullying crap is the level I expect from dudebros and schoolkids.

I don't know what this says about me, but I'm almost more bothered by this than all the objectively much worse stuff going on in the actual camps. Maybe it's because it's out of character? I mean, everything up until now is just China being China; they're a repressive technocratic oligarchy, pogroms against inconvenient minoriries is what repressive technocratic oligarchies do. But now they've started adding insult to injury by being fucking unprofessional about it!

Christ on toast. Ever find yourself reading back what you just typed and thinking, "How the fuck did we get to the point where this is a thing I feel I have to say?"

[ray245]

There are plenty of problems with US foreign policy going back a long way, but that does not mean that it makes no difference whether its under Trump. This is just the same old tired "Both Sides are just as bad" horseshit which is constantly pumped into the media to exploit the cynicism and intellectual laziness of people who can't be bothered to make a more nuanced critique than "Everybody's just as bad!", and it normalizes the worst players while masking it behind a veneer of false "fairness".

Shit comments like this is how Trump, a man essentially running US foreign policy as a mafia racket, becomes normalized.

My point is while Trump might messed things up badly both domestically and internationally, not every aspect of US foreign policy is suddenly a turn from the worse. To view everything from a POV that Trump must be doing everything worse than previous president is to trivialise the things the US have already done before.

The US state department was outright lying in order to justify a war against Iraq under Bush. Let's not forget that. Things were worse off before Trump.

True. Now show me proof that the claims of millions of Uighurs from multiple sources, not all of them directly tied to the US government, are wrong. Or better yet, explain to me why the exact number of people being ethnically-cleansed matters, as opposed to, you know, the ethnic cleansing?

When have I dispute the idea that millions of Uighurs being horribly treated is not happening? You are overreacting as usual and not bothering to read what I said.

Am I misremembering, or did genocide apologism used to be an instant-ban offense on this board?

Edit: and before anyone tries to play the "You're a Western Imperialist" card on me- I also regard the Trump administration's actions towards Muslims and Latinos as a (limited, because Trump is incompetent and not yet a full dictator) attempt at ethnic cleansing, and have described the current regime's actions as such on multiple occassions. I'm only "pro-West" or "anti-China" on this issue insofar as I refuse to excuse or downplay genocide by non-western actors, because some things are just fucking evil no matter who does them or why.

Seriously, fuck off. Stop fucking about with the simple "You're either with me or against me" kind of mentality that you love so much. Saying that a number of western sources have been known to be rather inaccurate with a number of their reporting on Chinese news does not mean I am denying those internment camps aren't real and horrible, or that demolishing of mosques isn't happening.

[ray245]

Put it this way, you have various Hong Kong and Asian news sources with reporters that are able to read Chinese that are more than happy to report on what is going on in Xinjiang.

The South Morning China Post, a Hong Kong newspaper is more than happy to publish an article challenging the narrative sold by the Chinese government.

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/politic ... nments-own

I find a variety of Asian news outlet ( but not all) reporting on China to be generally more reliable than a lot of reporting from western outlets, in part because they have reporters than can actually read Chinese and not make silly mistakes.

Take a recentish news about China supposedly implementing a social credit system. Most western news outlets made severe mistakes in their reporting on how the system worked and functioned. Scholars would actually studied China commented on the many mistakes made by the news outlets.

https://twitter.com/China_Digital/statu ... 9719927809

[madd0ct0r]

I think Ray's being honest, becuase there's a glaring weakness in the origional story that any astute defender would pounce on.

We're not talking about a double matress in a private bedroom here. We're talking about a communal raised (heated?) sleeping platform in a house without a bedroom.

[Ralin]

We're not talking about a double matress in a private bedroom here. We're talking about a communal raised (heated?) sleeping platform in a house without a bedroom.

And there's plenty of cultures and places where sharing a bed or sleeping platform with guests like that isn't considered inappropriate or sexual. Just to give an example TRR will be familiar with, Abraham Lincoln grew up doing exactly that and did so throughout his life.

Can't help but note that this report doesn't give any breakdown of how common this is compared to other gender match ups, not that I'd have a huge amount of faith in any numbers they gave. Though it wouldn't make much sense for a program aimed at building inter-ethnic ties to reduce Islamic fundamentalism to go out of its way to observe gender segregation.

[Ralin]

Addendum, I'm not super up on relevant Uyghur customs in these parts of China, but given that the local Party officials quoted didn't deny that shared sleeping arrangements were common it seems pretty implicit that this is considered normal and acceptable. Otherwise they would have denied that any guests were sharing a sleeping platform with their hosts, not that they hadn't heard any reports of female hosts being taken advantage of.

So yeah, if you want to accuse the Chinese men taking part in these programs of mass rape make with the proof instead of lurid "I'm SURE none of them are taking advantage!" innuendo. Because even the article from US State Department backed propaganda group didn't claim that's happening.

[Coop D'etat]

Addendum, I'm not super up on relevant Uyghur customs in these parts of China, but given that the local Party officials quoted didn't deny that shared sleeping arrangements were common it seems pretty implicit that this is considered normal and acceptable. Otherwise they would have denied that any guests were sharing a sleeping platform with their hosts, not that they hadn't heard any reports of female hosts being taken advantage of.

So yeah, if you want to accuse the Chinese men taking part in these programs of mass rape make with the proof instead of lurid "I'm SURE none of them are taking advantage!" innuendo. Because even the article from US State Department backed propaganda group didn't claim that's happening.

At the same time, litigating the rape element is a distraction from the clear underlying point. The Chinese government is so totalitarian in its ambitions to suppress the Uyghur people that they'll literally turn your house into occupied territory in addition to mass internment into re-education camps. How far from decency are we were saying that they're merely forcing into camps and putting men into homes is a defended on the grounds that they aren't mass murdering and raping. The conducted admitted is quite bad enough on its own.