Male Chinese ‘Relatives’ Assigned to Uyghur Homes Co-sleep With Female ‘Hosts’

[The Romulan Republic]

Nah. Rhetorical sleight of hand is spending a page decrying the horrible mass genocide rape that the Chinese are supposedly carrying out and then turning around and handwaving it after having holes poked in the idea and it being pointed out that even the article in the OP never claimed that was happening.

Oh please. You really think women of a persecuted minority group being forced to take men from the dominant group into their home aren't being sexually abused? To think that would fly in the face of the entire history of human society and the history of ethnic cleansing, which has shown time and time again what happens in these sorts of situations.

Its only unproven in the same way that Donald Trump being a rapist isn't "proven". Not that it matters, we all know you'd simply dismiss the evidence somehow even if we provided a hundred quotes from rape victims testifying to their abuse.

No they aren’t, because ethnic Uyghur Chinese citizens don’t benefit from letting fundamentalist-style Islam take root in their communities or ones around them. Having to deal with bridge-building and education campaigns like this can be intrusive. Having to deal with the prospect of an Islamic fundamentalist style shadow government or militias springing up because the government failed to address the problem…well shit, we’ve all heard enough horror stories about ISIS and other groups like them.

Right, because obviously if the government doesn't forcibly stamp out their religion by putting people en mass in reeducation camps, it will inevitably lead to a fundamentalist Islamic regime.

At this point, you're all but saying "allowing Islam to exist will result in fundamentalism". This is textbook Islamophobia.

You can play all sorts of word games if you want to, but given that Xinjiang province is a part of China and its people are Chinese citizens (who are being helped by programs like these!) any accusations of colonialism fall flat.

"You can play all sorts of word games if you want to, but given that the Reservations are a part of America and their people are American citizens (who are being helped by programs like Residential Schools!) any accusations of colonialism fall flat."

And I give it one week, tops, before someone on this board takes this bit of sarcasm out of context and portrays it as an honest expression of my views on Indigenous rights.

Under the Chinese constitution people are guaranteed freedom of religious belief. This does not extend to freedom of religious practice, which can and should be curtailed when it harms the well-being of others. The fact that bad elements can get some part of the population to go along with fundamentalist ideas doesn’t reflect on the desires of the Uyghur people as a whole much less the legitimacy of their government, anymore than the existence of neo-Confederates in the US is an ‘indictment’ of American rule.

"You have the right to believe whatever you want (because the Chinese government hasn't yet figured out how to practically mind-control the populace), you're just not allowed to practice those beliefs."

That is some impressively low semantics bullshit. You have freedom of belief, you just have no right to practice your beliefs!

So, tell me again what practices these are that " "harm the well-being of others", and why said harm can only be addressed via massed incarceration in reeducation camps and forced destruction of families?

Yes. Let’s pretend you and others weren’t straight up accusing Chinese men of mass rape on the last page right up until Ray and I called bullshit on it and called for someone to back the innuendo up with actual proof. Are you for real?

See above, you misogynist, pro-genocide piece of rape-apologist shit.

Oh, and I love how you frame it as "we're accusing Chinese men of being rapists", implying that we are motivated by racism against the Chinese and see all Chinese men as rapist, rather than "we're accusing the Chinese government of setting up a situation where rape is inevitable".

Is ‘arbitrarily’ code for ‘the Chinese government did it?’ Because the government has very specifically set out to temporarily (people are released from these camps once they’ve been judged ready to be reintegrated) detain people because they showed signs being at risk of radicalization. Doing so randomly wouldn’t serve that purpose.

And obviously everything the Chinese government says is 100% true and reasonable, and their definition of being "at risk of radicalization" is an entirely reasonable one...

You are defending the mass incarceration of millions of people by the state for having the "wrong" beliefs or belong to the "wrong" minority group.

The details, frankly, don't matter here. You are human garbage and a genocide apologist, end of story.

Nowadays we call that multicultural awareness.

What the fuck? Do you actually believe, or is this some snide "PC SJWs forcing multiculturalism down our throat" Reich-wing talking point, or what? I can't even fucking tell, its so detached from any reality of the situation.

Because fostering a harmonious and secular society makes for a better life, whereas ethnic separatism is harmful and leads to war and terrorism.

As someone who is nearly always opposed to separatism on principle: You cannot create harmony at gun point, and you cannot do it by destroying families and cultures by force.

They already do. Through the government of the People’s Republic of China.

Being a citizen of the People's Republic of China counts as "self-rule"?

Okay, when was the last time the PRC held free and fair elections?

So yeah, if you want to accuse the Chinese men taking part in these programs of mass rape make with the proof instead of lurid "I'm SURE none of them are taking advantage!" innuendo. Because even the article from US State Department backed propaganda group didn't claim that's happening.

Very well. I concede that it is theoretically possible, in so far as it does not violate the laws of physics, that for the first time in all of human history, men in the dominant group are behaving with perfect character and restraint and not sexually abusing the vulnerable women over whom the state has given them power.

You're a God-damned genocide apologist, Ralin, and you're lucky I'm not a mod, because if I were, your ass would be perm-banned, NOW.

[ray245]

Ah, so you're going to try to turn this around to "TRR is the REAL racist". Of course.

I think just about everyone is capable of being racist (often unintentionally) because it is so deeply-ingrained in our society. I am no exception to that. But its also pretty fucking rich being accused of being a racist because I criticized a poster who is literally defending textbook ethnic cleansing. Say what you will about me, I have never attempted to defend the deliberate, systematic destruction of a religious or ethnic group.

Take what Ralin is saying, and replace the word "Uyghur" with "Jew", "black", or "Latino", and tell me what the response would be on this board.

Reporting Ralin for racism and genocide apologism.

What Ralin says doesn't invalidate the accusation that there is a tendency amongst westerners in their critique of the CCP to adopt a racist/orientalist lens. If the response to being accused of having a mindset and approach heavily influence by racism is to say "but someone else is a bigger racist!", it says a lot about you as a person.

You don't adopt viewpoints rooted in racism to attack others for being racist. That goes to show you're more concerned with "winning" a discussion than addressing the issue of racism.

[The Romulan Republic]

Ah, so you're going to try to turn this around to "TRR is the REAL racist". Of course.

I think just about everyone is capable of being racist (often unintentionally) because it is so deeply-ingrained in our society. I am no exception to that. But its also pretty fucking rich being accused of being a racist because I criticized a poster who is literally defending textbook ethnic cleansing. Say what you will about me, I have never attempted to defend the deliberate, systematic destruction of a religious or ethnic group.

Take what Ralin is saying, and replace the word "Uyghur" with "Jew", "black", or "Latino", and tell me what the response would be on this board.

Reporting Ralin for racism and genocide apologism.

What Ralin says doesn't invalidate the accusation that there is a tendency amongst westerners in their critique of the CCP to adopt a racist/orientalist lens. If the response to being accused of having a mindset and approach heavily influence by racism is to say "but someone else is a bigger racist!", it says a lot about you as a person.

You don't adopt viewpoints rooted in racism to attack others for being racist. That goes to show you're more concerned with "winning" a discussion than addressing the issue of racism.

What does it say about you that when faced with a case of fucking genocide, your response is to say to the people calling it out "well you're racist too" as a way to shut down their criticisms? Could it be that you are more concerned with "winning" than addressing the issue of genocide?

What, exactly, about my arguments in this thread constitutes "a racist/orientalist lens"? I'm not talking about "tendency amongst westerners" in general. I'm talking about my specific arguments. Because I"m certainly willing to consider ways in which I could modify my arguments to avoid any unintended offense, but all I see here is me pointing out what the Chinese government is factually doing, the logical implications of those actions, and calling it what it is (genocide/ethnic cleansing). So unless your argument is "Any criticism of the Chinese government by a westerner is racist/orientalist", I'm not sure where you're coming from here.

Actually, I'm pretty sure I do know where you're coming from here. You're trying to deflect from criticism of the Chinese regime and Ralin's racism and genocide apologism by saying "No, YOU'RE the racist!', and relying on my negative reputation on this board to discredit me (and, by proxy, everyone else who's on the same side as me) via ad hominem.

Your language is very revealing. Your whole post is about making vague, undefined, unsubstantianted accusations against my character and motivations, and then extrapolating what that "says about me as a person"- ie, you are trying to debate my character/reputation rather than my arguments. This is textbook ad hominem.

And I'll give you this: its an effective tactic. Its a difficult one to defend against because racism is so prevellent in our society, and because progressives generally (rightly) adopt the view that accusations of racism should be believed and taken seriously, and so by accusing me of racism, you put me as a progressive in a position where I basically have no good options: either I accept the charge of racism without contest, and retract my position, and you win, or I deny it, in which case I am a hypocrite and its just more "proof" of my "racism", and you win.

The fact that its an effective attack, however, does not change the fact that one of us is defending genocide apologism, and it isn't me.

[The Romulan Republic]

Using accusations of racism to defend genocide of an ethnic and religious minority.

Some people have no moral scruples whatsoever.

[Ralin]

You are a moron Ralin.

Try harder. There are plenty of examples of large devout ethicnic minorities coexisting fine.

1) jews in america
2) Pakistani muslims in uk (and hindus and sikhs)
3) catholics in Vietnam

Want me to go on?

Indeed there are, and no, because I don’t want to wipe out Islam in China. And the Chinese government hasn’t tried to (hell, I live within driving distance of a mosque right now). This is an anti-radicalization program. It’s not aimed at Islam, it’s aimed at forms of Islam that run counter to the welfare of the country and its people.

If you are born into a muslim family in that province, how is this program helping you?

It stops bad elements from hurting you by spreading separatist ideology, fomenting violence and generally turning you and other people around you against the government.

Is this policy of crushing uighyr identity itself not aggressive ethnic seperatisim?

No, because fundamentalist Islam is not and should not be a part of Uyghur identity.

Is the result likely to be more or less integration of the jailed people or bitter families?

Less.

Do you think they will be grateful

Hopefully! Plenty of people have already been released after a stint in those education camps, so clearly the government officials in charge of the program are confident they’ve made progress.

or just replaced with more Han as happened in Tibet?

What do you mean by ‘replaced?’ People are allowed to move from one part of a country to another, and that’s an odd way to refer to encouraging people to move to less developed regions.

Question. If an area like Scotland vote for independence, should that vote be respected?

Probably, yeah. But they have a different system and would benefit in many ways from not going down with the ship that is the United Kingdom.

For fuck's sake, we have decades or more of evidence that mass incarceration, repression, and diaspora are PRECISELY the conditions that BREED extremism. You have to be incredibly stupid to think that somehow China is going to do it right this time and everyone will come out of it happy and non-resentful. All this is going to do is create terrorist groups operating out of the various Central Asian states (which is part of why China is working with Russia to expand their influence in that region).

Which is probably why the Chinese government hasn’t emulated the US by creating a massive carceral state and is focusing on temporary education programs (many of which do require people being held in camps against their will, and it’s unfortunate that’s necessary but it’s not like compulsory education is anything new) with the goal of deprogramming people considered sufficiently at risk so they can be sent back to their communities to resume their lives.

I mean Jesus man, if the government just wanted all the Uyghurs dead do you think they’d beat around the bush about it?

Also, Ralin and mr friendly guy, could you actually provide some examples of news sources that you wouldn't dismiss out of hand? I'm not saying your arguments about Radio Free Asia aren't valid (they certainly are), but in other threads like this it seems like you have a tendency to just dismiss things as being "Western propaganda" without really providing any alternative.

Honestly, I don’t follow any particular news outlets other than the South China Morning Post’s Twitter feed. I tend to read the first article I come across when something happens and if I doubt the basic facts or want commentary I take it where I can find it.

That said, I do feel like you’re missing the point since I haven’t dismissed the Radio Free Asia article in the OP since it doesn’t actually allege that there is any sexual abuse taking place as part of these indoctrination programs.

[loomer]

Is there a reason we're discounting Sauytbay's claims?

[ray245]

What does it say about you that when faced with a case of fucking genocide, your response is to say to the people calling it out "well you're racist too" as a way to shut down their criticisms? Could it be that you are more concerned with "winning" than addressing the issue of genocide?

I'm saying one does not have to rely on racism to criticise the Chinese government for what they are doing.

What, exactly, about my arguments in this thread constitutes "a racist/orientalist lens"? I'm not talking about "tendency amongst westerners" in general. I'm talking about my specific arguments. Because I"m certainly willing to consider ways in which I could modify my arguments to avoid any unintended offense, but all I see here is me pointing out what the Chinese government is factually doing, the logical implications of those actions, and calling it what it is (genocide/ethnic cleansing). So unless your argument is "Any criticism of the Chinese government by a westerner is racist/orientalist", I'm not sure where you're coming from here.

Ralin responded to some arguments, such as those saying Chinese men are committing mass rape, and said such views is essentially construed as being racist. This whole article does not seem to be backed up by any other more reputable sources saying this is happening.

It is entirely fair for Ralin to call out some posters for making arguments or viewpoints rooted in racism.

Actually, I'm pretty sure I do know where you're coming from here. You're trying to deflect from criticism of the Chinese regime and Ralin's racism and genocide apologism by saying "No, YOU'RE the racist!', and relying on my negative reputation on this board to discredit me (and, by proxy, everyone else who's on the same side as me) via ad hominem.

I've not denied what is happening in Xinjiang nor have I defended what the CCP is doing there.

Your language is very revealing. Your whole post is about making vague, undefined, unsubstantianted accusations against my character and motivations, and then extrapolating what that "says about me as a person"- ie, you are trying to debate my character/reputation rather than my arguments. This is textbook ad hominem.

And I'll give you this: its an effective tactic. Its a difficult one to defend against because racism is so prevellent in our society, and because progressives generally (rightly) adopt the view that accusations of racism should be believed and taken seriously, and so by accusing me of racism, you put me as a progressive in a position where I basically have no good options: either I accept the charge of racism without contest, and retract my position, and you win, or I deny it, in which case I am a hypocrite and its just more "proof" of my "racism", and you win.

The fact that its an effective attack, however, does not change the fact that one of us is defending genocide apologism, and it isn't me.

The entire logic relies on me actually defending the CCP's actions. If I am not, then your entire accusation falls apart. You have a 3 option that you can use you've not acknowledged so far. That you can criticise the Chinese government's action without being racist.

Is that so hard?

[ray245]

If there is anything you said that comes across as being racist, it is how you frame the whole issue via a false dichotomy.

You essentially made an false dichotomy that come across as "I guess I accept being racist in order to criticise the Chinese government" and "I don't want to be racist so that means I have to defend the Chinese government".

[Ralin]

Oh please. You really think women of a persecuted minority group being forced to take men from the dominant group into their home aren't being sexually abused? To think that would fly in the face of the entire history of human society and the history of ethnic cleansing, which has shown time and time again what happens in these sorts of situations.

I deny that Uyghurs are a ‘persecuted’ minority group and that all or most the Chinese men involved in these programs specifically intended to build intercommunity goodwill are going against that goal by sexually abusing their hosts.

Its only unproven in the same way that Donald Trump being a rapist isn't "proven". Not that it matters, we all know you'd simply dismiss the evidence somehow even if we provided a hundred quotes from rape victims testifying to their abuse.

If Xi Jinping goes on TV and brags about going to Xinjiang and grabbing hot Uyghur women by the pussy I promise I will re-evaluate by opinion on the subject.

Right, because obviously if the government doesn't forcibly stamp out their religion by putting people en mass in reeducation camps, it will inevitably lead to a fundamentalist Islamic regime.

At this point, you're all but saying "allowing Islam to exist will result in fundamentalism". This is textbook Islamophobia.

p. sure I answered this in my post to madd0cter, but to reiterate, no. Many Muslims have been and still are good citizens of China, and thanks in part to anti-radicalization and anti-separatism programs like these I am confident they will continue to be in the future.

"You have the right to believe whatever you want (because the Chinese government hasn't yet figured out how to practically mind-control the populace), you're just not allowed to practice those beliefs."

That is some impressively low semantics bullshit. You have freedom of belief, you just have no right to practice your beliefs!

That’s not semantics man. That’s literally what the constitution says. Would you like me to quote it for you?

So, tell me again what practices these are that " "harm the well-being of others", and why said harm can only be addressed via massed incarceration in reeducation camps and forced destruction of families?

Separatism, acts of terrorism against other Chinese people, attempts to enforce religious laws on a local or regional basis through violence or social pressure, etc.

Oh, and I love how you frame it as "we're accusing Chinese men of being rapists", implying that we are motivated by racism against the Chinese and see all Chinese men as rapist, rather than "we're accusing the Chinese government of setting up a situation where rape is inevitable".

When it’s accompanied by dark comments about Chinese people ‘replacing’ the local population and the proof for the accusation boils down to men and women of different ethnic groups being in the same building unchaperoned? Yeah, starts to look that way.

And obviously everything the Chinese government says is 100% true and reasonable, and their definition of being "at risk of radicalization" is an entirely reasonable one...

No government is perfect, but I don’t know anyone better suited to make those calls.

You are defending the mass incarceration of millions of people by the state for having the "wrong" beliefs or belong to the "wrong" minority group.

The details, frankly, don't matter here. You are human garbage and a genocide apologist, end of story.

No. I’m saying that anti-radicalization programs including but not limited to temporarily forcing large numbers of people in a given area to attend patriotic education programs aimed at reminding them that they are Chinese and that rejecting fundamentalist Islam and ethnic separatism is in the best interests of both them and everyone else in the country are one of a number of ways of combating the “wrong belief” that…well, see above. We know what happens when variants of Islam like Wahabism or whatever the word for ISIS’s take on it take root somewhere.

What the fuck? Do you actually believe, or is this some snide "PC SJWs forcing multiculturalism down our throat" Reich-wing talking point, or what? I can't even fucking tell, its so detached from any reality of the situation.

I thought it would be obvious, but let me explain. Building friendly, person to person contacts between people from different backgrounds, be they ethnic, religious or any number of other demographics is well-known to humanize those groups. There are famous stories of white supremacists in the US, even literal KKK members, turning a new leaf and renouncing racism because of friendships and other positive encounters with black people. One of the reasons for the growing acceptance of gay people in the US comes from more and more people having friends, family or other people in their community who are openly gay, and that builds on itself over time. Hopefully these ‘big brother’ programs will have a similar effect.

As someone who is nearly always opposed to separatism on principle: You cannot create harmony at gun point, and you cannot do it by destroying families and cultures by force.

I totally agree

Being a citizen of the People's Republic of China counts as "self-rule"?

Okay, when was the last time the PRC held free and fair elections?

Never, and it never will. The people of China are represented by the Chinese Communist Party, which works for their interests and well-being and enjoys their support. Holding elections would only give bad elements the chance to rile people up and game the system for their own ends.

Very well. I concede that it is theoretically possible, in so far as it does not violate the laws of physics, that for the first time in all of human history, men in the dominant group are behaving with perfect character and restraint and not sexually abusing the vulnerable women over whom the state has given them power.

You're a God-damned genocide apologist, Ralin, and you're lucky I'm not a mod, because if I were, your ass would be perm-banned, NOW.

Your delusions are not my responsibility.

But while we’re at it?

Especially in light of the fact that we know he'd be condemning this as loudly as possible and calling everyone who disagreed with him a racist if America did something like this. Which, honestly, he'd be right to do. Its just the utterly shameless double-standard that's so galling.

If we did ‘something like this’ in America it would be aimed at Trump supporters or elements of the Religious Right and most of this board would be fucking cheering along. America may be stuck accepting that something like 20 percent of the country are malicious or deluded fuckers who will fight tooth and nail against any form of progress, but China has the chance to nip that problem in the bud.

I think just about everyone is capable of being racist (often unintentionally) because it is so deeply-ingrained in our society. I am no exception to that. But its also pretty fucking rich being accused of being a racist because I criticized a poster who is literally defending textbook ethnic cleansing. Say what you will about me, I have never attempted to defend the deliberate, systematic destruction of a religious or ethnic group.

Take what Ralin is saying, and replace the word "Uyghur" with "Jew", "black", or "Latino", and tell me what the response would be on this board.

Reporting Ralin for racism and genocide apologism.

Whose textbook? The United Nations’? Because they don’t have any authority that I or anyone in China or America is obligated to accept. By that logic I’m a genocide victim because I don’t speak Cajun French and I’m an atheist who thinks that God (to paraphrase Wong) doesn’t exist, was a stupid idea to begin with and is a sadistic asshole if he does.

Uyghurs are not being killed en mass. Uyghurs aren’t even being forced to stop being Muslim. They are being coerced, carrot and stick-style, into being the kind of Muslim that can co-exist with everyone else and accept being one of many people in a diverse, secular country. And goddamn but if we’d done something like that in America the world would have been a better place over the past few decades.

[The Romulan Republic]

If there is anything you said that comes across as being racist, it is how you frame the whole issue via a false dichotomy.

You essentially made an false dichotomy that come across as "I guess I accept being racist in order to criticise the Chinese government" and "I don't want to be racist so that means I have to defend the Chinese government".

That is a blatant twisting of my words.

I certainly never said that "I accept being racist in order to criticize the Chinese government", nor did I ever say that I felt obligated to defend them. I do not perceive criticism of the Chinese government or any other government's crimes as a racist act. I was pointing out the trap that you were trying to set up by accusing me of racism for my criticisms of the Chinese government.

This is also something I said only after you had already accused me of racism. So if I'm reading this right, you are basically saying that the only reason you have for calling me racist is (your misinterpretation of) my response to being called racist. Which means you have offered no justification for making the accusation in the first place.

If that is the best you've got, then you are essentially admitting that you lied by falsely accusing me of racism in order to ad hominem me.

Reported for dishonest debating.

[loomer]

Christ almighty, just report them rather than doing a song and dance each time.

[The Romulan Republic]

Christ almighty, just report them rather than doing a song and dance each time.

Public bullshitting demands a public rebuttal.

But you've gotta love how Ralin openly advocates genocide, ray openly defends him for doing so, accuses me of racism for opposing genocide, and then admits that he can't back up the accusation, and yet I'm the bad guy here for calling them out.

I guess this's board's real political stance is "Its okay if TRR's against it."

[loomer]

Didn't you loudly and publicly quit a few weeks back?

[The Romulan Republic]

Didn't you loudly and publicly quit a few weeks back?

Keep focussing on mocking me, not the guy defending genocide, or the guy defending him by making false racism accusations. Clearly I'm the bad guy here, I'm the problem, not the genocide apologists. Make every thread about the character and personality of the person you're arguing with, and then you'll never ever have to defend your vile views, because this board long gave up any pretense of caring about honest debate, and the News and Politics section is now basically an echo of RT.

[The Romulan Republic]

Like, seriously. We have multiple posters defending genocide, and loomer's priority is "TRR BAD!"

Grow some fucking perspective (or maybe a soul), and think about what it says about you that you have more of a problem with my posts than those of the guys defending genocide.

[loomer]

Didn't you loudly and publicly quit a few weeks back?

Keep focussing on mocking me, not the guy defending genocide, or the guy defending him by making false racism accusations. Clearly I'm the bad guy here, I'm the problem, not the genocide apologists. Make every thread about the character and personality of the person you're arguing with, and then you'll never ever have to defend your vile views, because this board long gave up any pretense of caring about honest debate, and the News and Politics section is now basically an echo of RT.

The reason people consistently call you out is because you have the most obnoxious posting style known to man, you fuckwit. I'm on your goddamn side in this one (why else do you think my entry into all this was asking about Sauytbay? You know about her, right?) and I still want you to shut the fuck up since you can't keep from going into histrionics and then screaming 'report! report! I'll report all you!' as though anyone gives a shit - and as though the admins are going to come bail you out.

Try actually debating without the constant screeching for a while and people will stop wanting you to be quiet.

Like, seriously. We have multiple posters defending genocide, and loomer's priority is "TRR BAD!"

Grow some fucking perspective (or maybe a soul), and think about what it says about you that you have more of a problem with my posts than those of the guys defending genocide.

Sorry, did you miss my initial post, TRR? My priority is finding that out and introducing that evidence, I'd just prefer not to have to wade through you screaming about reporting people over and over yet again.

[The Romulan Republic]

Didn't you loudly and publicly quit a few weeks back?

Keep focussing on mocking me, not the guy defending genocide, or the guy defending him by making false racism accusations. Clearly I'm the bad guy here, I'm the problem, not the genocide apologists. Make every thread about the character and personality of the person you're arguing with, and then you'll never ever have to defend your vile views, because this board long gave up any pretense of caring about honest debate, and the News and Politics section is now basically an echo of RT.

The reason people consistently call you out is because you have the most obnoxious posting style known to man, you fuckwit. I'm on your goddamn side in this one (why else do you think my entry into all this was asking about Sauytbay? You know about her, right?) and I still want you to shut the fuck up since you can't keep from going into histrionics and then screaming 'report! report! I'll report all you!' as though anyone gives a shit - and as though the admins are going to come bail you out.

Try actually debating without the constant screeching for a while and people will stop wanting you to be quiet.

With all due respect, I wouldn't be having this conversation if ray hadn't tried to make it about me via ad hominem accusations of racism. Believe it or not, I don't actually want to be the topic of conversation here- I shouldn't be, because I am way less important than the crimes being discussed in this thread.

Like, seriously. We have multiple posters defending genocide, and loomer's priority is "TRR BAD!"

Grow some fucking perspective (or maybe a soul), and think about what it says about you that you have more of a problem with my posts than those of the guys defending genocide.

Sorry, did you miss my initial post, TRR? My priority is finding that out and introducing that evidence, I'd just prefer not to have to wade through you screaming about reporting people over and over yet again.
[/quote]

Alright. I'm sorry for not giving you enough credit for your arguments in this thread.

That said, I was under the impression that this board had rules against blatant racism, including genocide apologism. If that is no longer the case, well, that's up to the mods.

[loomer]

So report them without the song and dance if you think they've broken the rules - that's what the rules actually require.

EDIT:
Consider that you just might be doing your cause more harm than good by reducing reporting people to what looks a helluva lot like a debate tactic, is what I'm getting at.

[ray245]

That is a blatant twisting of my words.

I certainly never said that "I accept being racist in order to criticize the Chinese government", nor did I ever say that I felt obligated to defend them. I do not perceive criticism of the Chinese government or any other government's crimes as a racist act. I was pointing out the trap that you were trying to set up by accusing me of racism for my criticisms of the Chinese government.

What fucking trap? I'm saying Ralin in some of his reponse was right to call out other posters for viewpoints rooted in racism. You dismiss his response because you think every single one of his post must be attacked instead of reading it carefully.

This is also something I said only after you had already accused me of racism. So if I'm reading this right, you are basically saying that the only reason you have for calling me racist is (your misinterpretation of) my response to being called racist. Which means you have offered no justification for making the accusation in the first place.

If that is the best you've got, then you are essentially admitting that you lied by falsely accusing me of racism in order to ad hominem me.

Reported for dishonest debating.

I accuse you of dismissing people calling out others for racism because of the "larger context". Despite the fact that I've listed the exact reason why I think your approach seems to be overly dismissive of racism, you refuse to acknowledge any of that and carry on having this persecution complex of yours.

I think almost every Chinese-related threads has been closed thanks to you.

[The Romulan Republic]

That is a blatant twisting of my words.

I certainly never said that "I accept being racist in order to criticize the Chinese government", nor did I ever say that I felt obligated to defend them. I do not perceive criticism of the Chinese government or any other government's crimes as a racist act. I was pointing out the trap that you were trying to set up by accusing me of racism for my criticisms of the Chinese government.

What fucking trap? I'm saying Ralin in some of his reponse was right to call out other posters for viewpoints rooted in racism. You dismiss his response because you think every single one of his post must be attacked instead of reading it carefully.

This is also something I said only after you had already accused me of racism. So if I'm reading this right, you are basically saying that the only reason you have for calling me racist is (your misinterpretation of) my response to being called racist. Which means you have offered no justification for making the accusation in the first place.

If that is the best you've got, then you are essentially admitting that you lied by falsely accusing me of racism in order to ad hominem me.

Reported for dishonest debating.

I accuse you of dismissing people calling out others for racism because of the "larger context". Despite the fact that I've listed the exact reason why I think your approach seems to be overly dismissive of racism, you refuse to acknowledge any of that and carry on having this persecution complex of yours.

I have no objections to you or anyone else calling out racism when you see it, nor would my objections matter if I did.

What I have a problem with is when people use accusations of racism to deflect justifiable criticism of atrocities.

The distinction should not be difficult to make, yet somehow it apparently is.

I think almost every Chinese-related threads has been closed thanks to you.

If this is meant to insinuate that I am singling out threads on China in an effort to get them closed, then its just another pathetic, unsupported smear.

Also, I just love how I'm to blame for threads getting locked because I call out other peoples' racist fascist shit, and not the people who posted racist fascist shit.

[ray245]

I have no objections to you or anyone else calling out racism when you see it, nor would my objections matter if I did.

What I have a problem with is when people use accusations of racism to deflect justifiable criticism of atrocities.

The distinction should not be difficult to make, yet somehow it apparently is.

It's not "deflecting" if there really are points made from a racist viewpoint.

I absolutely detest the concept of "people are just using racism to deflect criticism", because it is a common habit used by racists and more privileged groups to to dismiss any accusation of racism. In other words, racism accusation is taken lightly by you just because there's a "bigger picture". You have objections towards people calling out racism because you have issues with Ralin's arguments.

I do not support the arguments made by Ralin, but I can still agree that him calling out on other members for evoking racist posts is valid.

If this is meant to insinuate that I am singling out threads on China in an effort to get them closed, then its just another pathetic, unsupported smear.

Also, I just love how I'm to blame for threads getting locked because I call out other peoples' racist fascist shit, and not the people who posted racist fascist shit.

Because you keep getting distracted by hyperbole instead of making effective criticism. I'm not supporting or defending the actions of the Chinese government, but you kept assuming I do just because I say I am annoyed with some members making points rooted in an orientalist or racist viewpoint.

[Dalton]

Jesus Mary and Joseph

[LadyTevar]

Jesus Mary and Joseph

Yes. I know. I'm getting sick of it.

[Dalton]

I am bone tired and sick of this shit. I’ll be reviewing this thread tomorrow.