The Dinosaurs Return! (RAR)

[The Romulan Republic]

Tomorrow at Noon Global Standard Time, a dozen giant portals open all over the world. Each one is stable, a circular apparture a mile in diameter, and permits two-way travel. The only detectable sign of their presence before entering one is a slight shimmer in the air, plus the appearance/disappearance of whatever happens to be passing through them at the moment. Each portal is at ground or sea-level, with one half below the surface and one half above.

Portal 1 opens in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.

Portal 2 opens in the Pacific.

Portal 3 opens in the Indian Ocean.

Portal 4 opens in the Arctic Ocean.

Portal 5 opens in the Antarctic Ocean.

Portals 6-12 open in Montana, Argentina, North Africa, Eastern Europe, Mongolia, the Pacific coast of Northern Australia, and Antarctica near Ross Bay.?

Each portal connects a part of our world to the corresponding part of the world 67 million years ago, in a virtually-identical alternate timeline (to avoid paradoxes). Portals in the ocean will be in the ocean on both sides, so no fear of a sudden endless flood pouring into the middle of Montana because the other side was underwater 67 million years ago.

That's right, the dinosaurs are back. Assume also that any diseases that might cause a global pandemic if unleashed into a time period that is not prepared for dealing with them will be sterilized upon passage through the portal, by Act of Q.

What happens next?

[TimothyC]

Each portal connects a part of our world to the corresponding part of the world 67 million years ago, in a virtually-identical alternate timeline (to avoid paradoxes). Portals in the ocean will be in the ocean on both sides, so no fear of a sudden endless flood pouring into the middle of Montana because the other side was underwater 67 million years ago.

What are the thermodynamic properties of the portals? Is there a minimum energy to transit them or will they drive both sides to an equilibrium temperature. I ask because 67 million years ago the Earth 6+C warmer than it is today.

[The Romulan Republic]

Each portal connects a part of our world to the corresponding part of the world 67 million years ago, in a virtually-identical alternate timeline (to avoid paradoxes). Portals in the ocean will be in the ocean on both sides, so no fear of a sudden endless flood pouring into the middle of Montana because the other side was underwater 67 million years ago.

What are the thermodynamic properties of the portals? Is there a minimum energy to transit them or will they drive both sides to an equilibrium temperature. I ask because 67 million years ago the Earth 6+C warmer than it is today.

That is a really good question.

Hmm, I'll say the latter (equilibrium temperature) just because its a more interesting scenario.

[madd0ct0r]

A mile in diameter? Top of it is half a mile up? Thats going to be fun if jetsreams dont align.

In terms of crossovers... density and movement of animals on a one mile strip. Assume random walk for number crossing. Same properties suggest they might cross back and forth a few times before moving away.
Diffusion equations apply. That is slow and very slow compared to humans spotting the weather pattern. Beetles and plants.

But distribution of larger animals not uniform random. Territorial ones WILL cross over if the portal intersects their territory. Herd grazers might on masss or not at all. Different temperature might drive systemic migrations to warmer side in winter, cooler side in summer.

[KraytKing]

This is really going to hurt the case of those advocating carbon emission limitations. That world is already much hotter than ours, so I wouldn't be surprised if there's a substantial movement to raise our temperature to match that world, kick out our species and replace them with the other ones. The new line becomes "if THEY can survive in a hotter atmosphere, so can we."

Of course, we're going to go and ruin that world too. Long term, humans are going to go through and find resources we want and dig them up. More iron, bauxite, lumber, et cetera, and tourism away from the unsightly industrial sectors. Might hide some government black projects or nuclear bunkers through the portals. A massive new luxury food out of nowhere: dinosaur meat, and presumably a dinosaur hunting safari industry as well. Everyone wants to go out and prove their superiority over the greatest predators to ever walk the earth, even if it takes 30mm autocannon to do it.

[LadyTevar]

Of course, we're going to go and ruin that world too. Long term, humans are going to go through and find resources we want and dig them up. More iron, bauxite, lumber, et cetera, and tourism away from the unsightly industrial sectors. Might hide some government black projects or nuclear bunkers through the portals. A massive new luxury food out of nowhere: dinosaur meat, and presumably a dinosaur hunting safari industry as well. Everyone wants to go out and prove their superiority over the greatest predators to ever walk the earth, even if it takes 30mm autocannon to do it.

Many of the resources we would be looking for are not there. Coal and natural gas are not going to be there because the processes that made them haven't started in some cases. Bauxite/aluminium takes certain specific geographic conditions to create as well. Hell... about the only thing that MIGHT be where we'd expect it is bog iron.
Lumber worth would be questionable, as the more modern hardwoods were not around. Cycads, primitive magnolias, ginkos, some primitive pines and redwoods are the ones we see most in fossil records. While I've seen bowls made from magnolia wood, it's used for carving, not building. So, not much use for lumber from across the portal.
Gemstones need heat and pressure, especially diamonds. We might find ancient pipes of those, as there were large volcanic ranges, but again, they won't be where we expect them to be.

About the only useful thing we'd get out of crossing the Portal is answering all those questions Paleontologists can't answer with the fossil record. Personally, I'd like to see the Appalachians before 65mil years of erosion, and see if they really were the Himalayas of the day.

[madd0ct0r]

A mile in diameter? Top of it is half a mile up? Thats going to be fun if jetsreams dont align.

In terms of crossovers... density and movement of animals on a one mile strip. Assume random walk for number crossing. Same properties suggest they might cross back and forth a few times before moving away.
Diffusion equations apply. That is slow and very slow compared to humans spotting the weather pattern. Beetles and plants.

But distribution of larger animals not uniform random. Territorial ones WILL cross over if the portal intersects their territory. Herd grazers might on masss or not at all. Different temperature might drive systemic migrations to warmer side in winter, cooler side in summer.

need alyrium to stop by and tell my why my biology is wrong (again).

[TimothyC]

The reason I asked about the thermal properties of the wormholes is because it will drive an increase in temperature on Modern Earth, if only because the wormholes are going to be, on average, warmer than the stuff that is around them. they are going to drive and disrupt weather and ocean paterns on a major scale.

Many of the resources we would be looking for are not there. Coal and natural gas are not going to be there because the processes that made them haven't started in some cases. Bauxite/aluminium takes certain specific geographic conditions to create as well. Hell... about the only thing that MIGHT be where we'd expect it is bog iron.

Most of the metals are going to be there, and U235 is going to be around in a slightly higher concentration. The big thing is that Humans have, for centuries gone over and removed most of the good stuff that is at the surface. Dino-world is a virgin land, and there will be lots of places where a shovel will dig up useful material.

[madd0ct0r]

The reason I asked about the thermal properties of the wormholes is because it will drive an increase in temperature on Modern Earth, if only because the wormholes are going to be, on average, warmer than the stuff that is around them. they are going to drive and disrupt weather and ocean paterns on a major scale.

Many of the resources we would be looking for are not there. Coal and natural gas are not going to be there because the processes that made them haven't started in some cases. Bauxite/aluminium takes certain specific geographic conditions to create as well. Hell... about the only thing that MIGHT be where we'd expect it is bog iron.

Most of the metals are going to be there, and U235 is going to be around in a slightly higher concentration. The big thing is that Humans have, for centuries gone over and removed most of the good stuff that is at the surface. Dino-world is a virgin land, and there will be lots of places where a shovel will dig up useful material.

We're only talking a few degrees local gradient and tiny portals compared to world scale. Im not sure the energy transfer is meaningful. We're not into emptying ocean

[Solauren]

Someone will decide they need to invade the Dinosaur world to secure it, harvest dinosaurs and resources, and even colonize it.

[The Romulan Republic]

Of course, we're going to go and ruin that world too. Long term, humans are going to go through and find resources we want and dig them up. More iron, bauxite, lumber, et cetera, and tourism away from the unsightly industrial sectors. Might hide some government black projects or nuclear bunkers through the portals. A massive new luxury food out of nowhere: dinosaur meat, and presumably a dinosaur hunting safari industry as well. Everyone wants to go out and prove their superiority over the greatest predators to ever walk the earth, even if it takes 30mm autocannon to do it.

Many of the resources we would be looking for are not there. Coal and natural gas are not going to be there because the processes that made them haven't started in some cases. Bauxite/aluminium takes certain specific geographic conditions to create as well. Hell... about the only thing that MIGHT be where we'd expect it is bog iron.
Lumber worth would be questionable, as the more modern hardwoods were not around. Cycads, primitive magnolias, ginkos, some primitive pines and redwoods are the ones we see most in fossil records. While I've seen bowls made from magnolia wood, it's used for carving, not building. So, not much use for lumber from across the portal.
Gemstones need heat and pressure, especially diamonds. We might find ancient pipes of those, as there were large volcanic ranges, but again, they won't be where we expect them to be.

About the only useful thing we'd get out of crossing the Portal is answering all those questions Paleontologists can't answer with the fossil record. Personally, I'd like to see the Appalachians before 65mil years of erosion, and see if they really were the Himalayas of the day.

Tourism comes to mind as an obvious application. Dinosaur hunts, dinosaur safaries, dinosaur zoos and pets...

There will need to be strict regulations, fast, to keep them from dying out (again/early). Speaking of...

Eventually the K/T asteroid is going to hit (though it might not be for a million years or so), and some of the effects will spill over into our world through the portals. On the plus side, we (or rather, our descedants) can actually observe the K/T impact as it happens, potentially. Hell, having a new Earth to compare ours' to will be a huge scientific gain in so many ways. Plus the whole interdimensional time portals being real.

There's going to be a lot of work going into finding out a) how the portals were made, b) if more are going to appear (especially in the middle of cities or something), c) how to duplicate/weaponize them. Worries about altering the timeline, as well.

There's also going to be a rush to secure them, as they will represent effectively an unprotected border inside various countries' territory, and an enemy could concievably cross over into dino-Earth, move to another portal, and use it to enter another nation's territory behind the lines.

Putin will probably try to annex chunks of dino-Earth. Ditto China, and various corporations.

As usual, the knock-on social and scientific fallout of the crossover is probably more interesting than the crossover itself.

[Elheru Aran]

The reason I asked about the thermal properties of the wormholes is because it will drive an increase in temperature on Modern Earth, if only because the wormholes are going to be, on average, warmer than the stuff that is around them. they are going to drive and disrupt weather and ocean paterns on a major scale.

Many of the resources we would be looking for are not there. Coal and natural gas are not going to be there because the processes that made them haven't started in some cases. Bauxite/aluminium takes certain specific geographic conditions to create as well. Hell... about the only thing that MIGHT be where we'd expect it is bog iron.

Most of the metals are going to be there, and U235 is going to be around in a slightly higher concentration. The big thing is that Humans have, for centuries gone over and removed most of the good stuff that is at the surface. Dino-world is a virgin land, and there will be lots of places where a shovel will dig up useful material.

We're only talking a few degrees local gradient and tiny portals compared to world scale. Im not sure the energy transfer is meaningful. We're not into emptying ocean

He already said there's not going to be any oceans pouring onto dry land or whatever on either side by act of OP. So that's not an issue, though certainly establishing a geographical survey of the other side of the portal would be of intense interest to a lot of people for obvious reasons.

[madd0ct0r]

The reason I asked about the thermal properties of the wormholes is because it will drive an increase in temperature on Modern Earth, if only because the wormholes are going to be, on average, warmer than the stuff that is around them. they are going to drive and disrupt weather and ocean paterns on a major scale.



Most of the metals are going to be there, and U235 is going to be around in a slightly higher concentration. The big thing is that Humans have, for centuries gone over and removed most of the good stuff that is at the surface. Dino-world is a virgin land, and there will be lots of places where a shovel will dig up useful material.

We're only talking a few degrees local gradient and tiny portals compared to world scale. Im not sure the energy transfer is meaningful. We're not into emptying ocean

He already said there's not going to be any oceans pouring onto dry land or whatever on either side by act of OP. So that's not an issue, though certainly establishing a geographical survey of the other side of the portal would be of intense interest to a lot of people for obvious reasons.

I was alluding to https://what-if.xkcd.com/53/ where a portal 10m in diameter in the marianas trench barely makes a difference despite the huge pressure focing water through it. Our case the portals are larger, but we're still talking about a mousehole between two buildings leading to equalising tempretures.

[Richelieu]

Many of the resources we would be looking for are not there. Coal and natural gas are not going to be there because the processes that made them haven't started in some cases. Bauxite/aluminium takes certain specific geographic conditions to create as well. Hell... about the only thing that MIGHT be where we'd expect it is bog iron.

I beg to disagree. A majority of the oil deposit known today were formed during the Mesosoic so should be available (and easily located) with a direct link to the early Cenozoic era. We also could have easier access to some Paleozoic deposits if the geography of the Cretaceous side of the wormhole allows easier access. Given the alternate timeline scenario, pumping them wouldn't reduce the current deposit by pumping them in the Cretaceous... I can't say for metallic deposits but I'm pretty sure the oil industry would experience a shock. Coal would be abundant as well, but a larger part of the deposit was formed during the early Cenozoic period (-65 Ma to -30 Ma) and therefore not yet available, but significant deposits can be dated back to the Carboniferous and Permian periods. Geopolitically, expect huge tensions as many countries would go for the land grab... (and the oil-producing countries could be in upheavel if the oil price plummets).

Lumber worth would be questionable, as the more modern hardwoods were not around. Cycads, primitive magnolias, ginkos, some primitive pines and redwoods are the ones we see most in fossil records. While I've seen bowls made from magnolia wood, it's used for carving, not building. So, not much use for lumber from across the portal.

In a larger timeframe, invasive species from our current world could fare very well in the Cretaceous environment. The scenario invites us to imagine the dinosaur crossing into our world (and it could happen, but not for long... the land based portals are a mile wide and could be enclosed quickly by a concrete no-crossing barrier with armed border guards. Expect insects to cross, not dinosaurs. Even before the local government act, the temperature difference would disincentivize cold-blood creature to cross toward the lower temperature side so we could have a few rampaging dinosaur in the first few weeks but not much... On the other hand we could have competition on the Cretaceous side of the wormhole. It might be profitable to start huge fire in the cretaceous side and plant edible crops even with the armed-guard costs.

I am not worried about the marine life in the waterborne wormhole since there is evidence of a much higher salinity of seawater in the Cretaceous, so its possible, as most fish are currently very sensitive to variation in the salinity level, that the difference would prevent species to cross the wormhole and thrive on the other side.

About the only useful thing we'd get out of crossing the Portal is answering all those questions Paleontologists can't answer with the fossil record. Personally, I'd like to see the Appalachians before 65mil years of erosion, and see if they really were the Himalayas of the day.

Tourism would be the third industry to develop with these wormholes. I am pretty sure a lot of people would be interested into "exclusive spots" in warm climate.