Justice Department Inspector General rules Russia probe "justified and unbiased".

[aerius]

It's nice to know that TRR condones blatant 4th Amendment violations as long as it's in the interest of getting rid of Trump. And he's calling me a Fascist.

[Gandalf]

You see, to people like aerius, they're all part of the same Deep State conspiracy to frame Donald Trump/Russia, and discrediting any aspect of any investigation discredits them all, because they're arguing by character attacks. Facts don't matter, evidence doesn't matter. They argue entirely by vague inferences and ad hominems.

Or because of an investigation of this magnitude (or any really), it's important that the FBI get every fact and point of procedure correct, lest there be cause to get a case thrown out, or whatever the equivalent would be in this case. If they can't get basics right, then they lose all trustworthiness as an organisation, which is bad for federal law enforcement.

It's why I don't trust MSNBC after they got done for editing that Zimmerman call.

[The Romulan Republic]

You see, to people like aerius, they're all part of the same Deep State conspiracy to frame Donald Trump/Russia, and discrediting any aspect of any investigation discredits them all, because they're arguing by character attacks. Facts don't matter, evidence doesn't matter. They argue entirely by vague inferences and ad hominems.

Or because of an investigation of this magnitude (or any really), it's important that the FBI get every fact and point of procedure correct, lest there be cause to get a case thrown out, or whatever the equivalent would be in this case. If they can't get basics right, then they lose all trustworthiness as an organisation, which is bad for federal law enforcement.

It's why I don't trust MSNBC after they got done for editing that Zimmerman call.

While that may be how it often works, that's not a good thing.

Let's be honest here: every organization, every person in the world makes mistakes. All of them. Forever denouncing an organization as untrustworthy, rejecting any conclusions they reach as wrong or even fabricated out of hand because they did one thing wrong, even a vitally important thing, leads to the culture of cynicism where everything is viewed as equally corrupt, with the result that the most corrupt players become normalized, and supporting reform is seen as not only impossible but wrong.

To write off an entire organization as untrustworthy, regardless of circumstances or evidence, you have to show a systemic pattern of incompetence or corruption, not a single incident or group of incidents, however shocking.

You can point to examples to "discredit" any institution or person ever. Except Republicans and fascists, apparently, perhaps because they wear their corruption so brazenly on their sleaves, and this is somehow seen as more "honest", and therefore superior to the "hypocrisy" of those who have principles but don't always perfectly live up to them.

[Marko Dash]

except, you cannot call a deliberate action a 'mistake'.

[The Romulan Republic]

It's nice to know that TRR condones blatant 4th Amendment violations as long as it's in the interest of getting rid of Trump. And he's calling me a Fascist.

Nice strawman/whataboutism. Hell, let's call it what it is- a lie.

I did not say that I "condoned" any errors or omissions in the course of acquiring FISA warrants. Like all of Trump's apologists, you believe you can lie with impunity, and since we live in the post-Truth world where innuendo and ad hominem carry more weight than facts, you may be right. But what I actually said (correctly, and you have not refuted it) is that the report disproved the idea of a partisan conspiracy to frame Trump, and that it stated what anyone who doesn't have their head up Putin's asshole already knew- that the decision to open the investigation was justified and non-partisan.

Got any more gems? Maybe some propaganda copy-pasted from RT?

[Darth Yan]

RR got it right. There was reason to investigate and Trumps a worthless dogfucker as well as a sociopathic dimwit

[Gandalf]

While that may be how it often works, that's not a good thing.

Let's be honest here: every organization, every person in the world makes mistakes. All of them. Forever denouncing an organization as untrustworthy, rejecting any conclusions they reach as wrong or even fabricated out of hand because they did one thing wrong, even a vitally important thing, leads to the culture of cynicism where everything is viewed as equally corrupt, with the result that the most corrupt players become normalized, and supporting reform is seen as not only impossible but wrong.

To write off an entire organization as untrustworthy, regardless of circumstances or evidence, you have to show a systemic pattern of incompetence or corruption, not a single incident or group of incidents, however shocking.

You can point to examples to "discredit" any institution or person ever. Except Republicans and fascists, apparently, perhaps because they wear their corruption so brazenly on their sleaves, and this is somehow seen as more "honest", and therefore superior to the "hypocrisy" of those who have principles but don't always perfectly live up to them.

If it was one thing wrong, sure. But given the FBI's history, and the power they wield, if they don't do things to a tee there's enough reason not to trust them with this sort of a "mistake."

RR got it right. There was reason to investigate and Trumps a worthless dogfucker as well as a sociopathic dimwit

... those are criminal offences?

[The Romulan Republic]

While that may be how it often works, that's not a good thing.

Let's be honest here: every organization, every person in the world makes mistakes. All of them. Forever denouncing an organization as untrustworthy, rejecting any conclusions they reach as wrong or even fabricated out of hand because they did one thing wrong, even a vitally important thing, leads to the culture of cynicism where everything is viewed as equally corrupt, with the result that the most corrupt players become normalized, and supporting reform is seen as not only impossible but wrong.

To write off an entire organization as untrustworthy, regardless of circumstances or evidence, you have to show a systemic pattern of incompetence or corruption, not a single incident or group of incidents, however shocking.

You can point to examples to "discredit" any institution or person ever. Except Republicans and fascists, apparently, perhaps because they wear their corruption so brazenly on their sleaves, and this is somehow seen as more "honest", and therefore superior to the "hypocrisy" of those who have principles but don't always perfectly live up to them.

If it was one thing wrong, sure. But given the FBI's history, and the power they wield, if they don't do things to a tee there's enough reason not to trust them with this sort of a "mistake."

RR got it right. There was reason to investigate and Trumps a worthless dogfucker as well as a sociopathic dimwit

... those are criminal offences?

No, but conspiring with a foreign government to win an election campaign is, even if the investigation was ultimately not able to prove it, in Mueller's estimation (and then Trump went and did it again even more blatantly in the Ukraine, with added bribery and coersion).

As were the numerous attempts at obstructing the investigation by both Trump and his cronies (a number of whom have been charged and convicted criminally).

[Gandalf]

And given the magnitude of those challenges, best to get your shit right so holes like this don't appear.

[The Romulan Republic]

And given the magnitude of those challenges, best to get your shit right so holes like this don't appear.

Agreed. I'm not saying that nobody at the FBI ever did anything wrong, no matter how desperately aerius tries to strawman my posts. I'm saying that this should not be treated as proof of Trump's hysterical, authoritarian "Deep State conspiracy" theories, and that it should not overshadow the more fundamental conclusion that the decision to open the investigation in the first place was justified and unbiased.

[The Romulan Republic]

Ugg, former Republican billionaire Bloomberg is rising in the polls, passing Buttigieg nationally in at least one (eight percent to Buttigieg's seven).

If Biden collapses, look to a final showdown between Warren/Sanders and Bloomberg, which has the risk of being very polarizing. You could hardly have a starker illustration of the Centrist vs Progressive divide.

I don't think Bloomberg's likely to win, though, even if Biden collapses- he's largely ignored the early states, betting everything on winning California/doing well on Super Tuesday, and I don't think he'll be able to do that without some decent showings in the early races. Had he jumped in a little earlier and fought more for the early states he might have had a real shot (and thank God we dodged that bullet), but I don't think he has much of one now.

[The Romulan Republic]

Too late to edit, but obviously I meant to post that in the 2020 election thread. Apologies.

[Ralin]

... those are criminal offences?

Dog-fucking is illegal in many jurisdictions.