Rise of Skywalkers reviews (Spoilers in this thread)

[MKSheppard]

What an uncanny rendition of Leia that do not contribute anything you didn't already know?

Rogue One is the most Star Wars movie, since, well, Return of the Jedi.

[MKSheppard]

More to the point, ROGUE ONE's director listened to input when designing the film:

The film's director, Gareth Edwards, had wanted a character to showcase the more "militant" and "extreme" side of the rebellion. Co-producer Kiri Hart suggested using Gerrera, a pre-established character, in this role.

Thus, a semi-favorite from TEH CLONE WARZ gets an epic death scene in-universe, some two decades after his last appearance; which in turn causes people like me, who never watched CLONE WARS, to go "hey, who was that guy?" and go look at the Clone Wars, in a beautiful cycle of life.

[Dino-Mario]

Saw it today. Da skreeonk did i just watch...
Eh, it's not a fully atrocious film, it's got a very few strengths, and is plagued by multiple inconsistencies and plot-holes. But Palpatine is easily the best part as always. Feels like a finale but not a particularly satisfactory one. Plus, we'll always have good ol' Legends.
Spoiler

Anakin must be rolling in his grave after his lightsaber got buried in the very same planet where he spent 9 years of his life as a slave and watched his mother die in his arms which kickstarted his eventual fall. Plus, sand.

[Vympel]

So I saw the movie again last night (its Star Wars, I can't just watch it once, no matter how much it disappointed me).

Having already experienced the movie once, I was considerably less annoyed by the film's creative decisions than the first time around (not because I suddenly agree with them, I don't - they're bad), so I was able to more easily enjoy the stuff I really liked (Adam and Daisy) and appreciate / notice new things. Random things that leapt out at me, in no particular order:

- Leia's performance the second-time around was more noticeably 'off' than the first. They did the best I could, I guess, but the way Rey is acting around her ... it's sad, is all.

- There is a second transport right next to the one Chewie is being loaded on to on Pasana.

- It's kind of convenient how Rey's force lightning blows up the transport, but the Emperor's lightning acts instead like an ion cannon with Poe's X-Wing (though it starts to cause physical damage to what I assume is the Tantive IV)

- Hux tells Poe, Finn and Chewie that he's disabled the "impeders" but they only have "seconds" (to escape with the Falcon). Anyone got an idea what an 'impeder' is?

- I watched for the evidence that Luke's X-Wing was missing a wing that people on reddit claimed to have seen. Came up empty. Anyone else see anything?

- Luke still looks absolutely terrible on Ach'To. That wig they put him in is absolutely atrocious, and his facial expressions really do make him look like The Dude from The Big Lebowski at various points. They just do not know how to do Force ghosts in this movie.

- B-Wing's got done dirty in this movie again.

- The space battle is still a big disappointment and probably the most anticlimactic space battle I've ever seen in a Star Wars movie. Like, you could've done something really cool. Heck, there's literally hundreds of Star Destroyers able to point their guns straight up (they did this at the start of the battle!) at the "People's Fleet" - and yet we see nothing. It's like they're a delivery service for ... Zorri Bliss' Y-Wing. RotS ships-slugging-it-out shots and Rogue One's beautifully shot sequence are still the winners.

- It's amazing how perfunctory and transparent the side-lining of Rose Tico's character is. "Gotta look at stuff about old destroyers" for ... reasons, I guess.

- B-Wing's got done dirty in this movie again. Remember being excited about their appearance? Sad.

- Ochi of Bestoon is possibly the dumbest, most incompetent Sith stooge in the Star Wars canon, by far:

Ochi: "Where's Palpatine's granddaugther?!"

Rey's Parents: "She isn't on Jakku, she's gone!" (actual line from the film)

Ochi: "The planet I just captured you at?!"

Rey's Parents: "Yes, that's the one!"

Ochi: "Well I guess I should just believe you, no point in checking to see if you're lying!" *Stabs*

Overstating how poorly conceived "Rey Palpatine" is as a plot point is really hard to do. It's like an onion of contrived. There's so many layers.

Anyway, the premise for Episode X now writes itself: Count Dooku Fucks.

I've already talked about what a weird ending this movie has, an ending aimed so clearly at the audience (and in particular, the audience who grew up in the 1980s) than anything organic to Rey's character, given there's no reason she would ever give a shit about Tatooine, and how inappropriate Tatooine is thematically given its history.

In addition to that, Rey turning on her new lightsaber for literally no reason than to show the audience that it was a new colour is really something else. It's bad, folks.

That old lady with the space llama must've wondered what she was doing - if she wasn't a nosey weirdo going around asking people their last name like some sort of asshole.

[FaxModem1]

Just saw the film, and boy was that a letdown. This entire trilogy has been a mess.

All the First Order troopers who, like Finn and the people on Endor, were conscripted into service into the First Order? Still forced to be terrorists and left to die after the battle, I guess. No scene where Finn gives a speech and gets them to join the cause.

What exactly is Hux's deal? Always the fool I guess.

Who is this Pryde guy? Why hasn't he been shown in previous films if he's going to be the big bad of the ST trilogy aside from Palpatine?

The reason Maz, a bartender, is wise in matters of the force? Who knows, she just is, only now she's joined the Resistance for some reason.

All the slaves on Canto Bight, including force using slave boy? Still there, I guess.

DJ and his ability to get away with everything while getting paid? Still enjoying his vacation in Space Tahiti or wherever.

All the Space Rich living in Space Monaco, profiting off all the wars and destruction that happen every few years? Still living it up while everyone else does the fighting and dying I guess.

Who was Snoke? Just a science project by Palpatine, okay then.

This film was deeply unsatisfying storywise and thematically. At least it was pretty in sections. DJ was right, better to just sit out the fights when they happen, and focus on your own survival.

[Deathstalker]

The reason Maz, a bartender, is wise in matters of the force? Who knows, she just is, only now she's joined the Resistance for some reason.

The Deathstalker believes that Maz is the most useless character in the sequel movies.

In TFA she doesn't understand discretion and announces Han to everyone in the bar. She then hands a lightsabre to a suspect Force user who declines it. So Maz hands it the next person standing in line who doesn't have a clue how to use it and nearly gets killed twice using it.

In TLJ she can't be bothered to help the Resistance fight the FO, you know the "beasts" who destroyed her home/business and killed Han Solo. "You need to go to Canto Bight and find this hacker dude." "Ahhh, could you meet us there Maz?" "Nope, fuck off"

In ROS she stands around and does zilch. "Hey Maz, you ran a bar for a 1000 years, you have any contacts or markers to call in to help?" "Nope, fuck off"

[Galvatron]

Because it was inevitable...

The last Plinkett review? I fuckn hope so.

[The Romulan Republic]

An interesting take- I actually don't entirely agree with the analysis, but I feel that the larger point is valid:

https://cbr.com/the-rise-of-skywalker-s ... n-johnson/

WARNING: The following contains spoilers for Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker, in theaters now.

The concluding chapter of the nine-part Skywalker Saga, Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker, has met with a decidedly mixed reception, with many finding it a satisfying ending, while others were disappointed by what ended up on-screen. That's to be expected, as even critically lauded Star Wars films divide the fanbase. However, with The Rise of Skywalker following the controversial eighth film, The Last Jedi, the audience is only further fragmented.

The Last Jedi actively ignored what fandom wanted, which runs in accordance with director Rian Johnson's typical desire to subvert expectations. This has been a thread running through career. When applying this subversive style to noir (Brick), science fiction (Looper) and whodunnit mystery (Knives Out), audiences and critics alike have adored it. Yet this same approach, when applied to Star Wars, only led to controversy. That's because many Star Wars fans have a particular vision of what they want the franchise to be, and anything contradicting that is bad in their eyes.

However, as The Rise of Skywalker proves, maybe fans getting what they want isn't always a good thing. Perhaps they need to be challenged by having their heroes deconstructed. Perhaps Star Wars, in its future, needs Rian Johnson -- or, at the very least, needs directors like him.

THE GREATEST TEACHER FAILURE IS

Fans want to see their heroes win. They want to see an epic confrontation between good and evil. Fans of the prequels like it when Jedi fight with their lightsabers, even when it adds little to the narrative. Yoda and Palpatine didn't need to have a lightsaber duel at the end of Revenge of the Sith, but it happened anyway. The Jedi's fight with Darth Maul in The Phantom Menace while mind-blowing does little to resolve the conflict of the actual film.

In The Last Jedi, Johnson uses conflict as a means to make the situation direr. Every flashy scene pushes the plot forward, but it pushes it in a way that makes it more clear the heroes are in over their heads. Holdo lightspeed ramming those ships? It's beautiful and epic, but it also leaves the Resistance vulnerable. The Kylo/Rey fight against Snoke's guards? That's a crowd-pleaser, but it also ends with Kylo Ren leading the First Order.

In every fight, there was some risk. And, as Yoda puts it in The Last Jedi, "The greatest teacher failure is." Every character learned from their failure, no matter how severe it may be.

There is plenty of fights in The Rise of Skywalker that are intended to entertain fans of action, but they add precious little. Chewie dying? Oh, no, he's fine. Wait, a planet blew up? Oh, no, don't worry, all the relevant characters on the planet escaped. Hold on, Palpatine electrocuted every ship in the sky? Oh no, none of the characters fans liked died. Don't worry. It's a lot of style, but we never get that substantial loss.

TOSSING OUT LIGHTSABERS

Everything in Star Wars has become cultural mythology. Lightsabers are these holy relics, of sorts. In The Force Awakens, Maz Katana giving Rey the legacy lightsaber becomes this glorified passing of the torch added to the fact that the weapon, apparently, can trigger visions in her brain. This is seen as the lightsaber calling to her. In The Last Jedi, Luke tosses that lightsaber over his shoulder like it doesn't matter. From film to film, it goes to "holy relic" to unimportant trash.

This is a terrific decision. As The Last Jedi argues, characters like Luke Skywalker are elevated into myth when they probably shouldn't be. Luke is treated like a messiah by everyone around him -- both in and out of the fandom -- yet he really did precious little in the original trilogy to merit this reputation. He is a Jedi, yes, who does defeat Darth Vader and helps bring Anakin to the light. However, Palpatine easily overpowers him with Force Lightning in Return of the Jedi. He makes little impact in any of his major battles -- save for the destruction of the Death Star in A New Hope. What Johnson proved is that the legend of heroics and the reputation surrounding them are always larger than the reality. Luke wins the final battle of The Last Jedi not with strength, but with wisdom. The lightsaber doesn't matter. The idea of it, however, does.

Compare that to how Luke catches the lightsaber in The Rise of Skywalker. Now, obviously, this is Luke after emerging from his depressive funk from The Last Jedi, but him catching the lightsaber is a pretty heavy counter to the irreverent tone established in the last film. In addition, the idea of legacy plays a huge role in this film. Palpatine is the legacy of the past brought back almost like a God of Evil. He literally has a cult that worships him, both inside the First Order and on his own planet of Exogol. Rey isn't just some scrapper, but, rather, a thousand generations live inside her. Everything is elevated to mythic status, which feels, strangely enough, expected.

"NO ONE CARES ABOUT YOUR SNOKE THEORY"
Snoke in Star Wars: The Last Jedi
When Kylo Ren kills Snoke in The Last Jedi, he takes the plot in a very different direction than audiences expected. Many thought Snoke would end up serving the role of Palpatine in the sequel trilogy, and that the whole franchise would build up to him being the final bad guy. But that wasn't the case didn't, and that's great because the person who became the real big bad is the far more nuanced, emotionally complex villain, Kylo Ren.

Fans spent years speculating who Snoke actually was, but, ultimately, Johnson determined that the potential a character served was less important than the role they practically served in the plot. He chose, rather than spend time speculating who a person could be, to just make them who they are: an evil jerk who helps push the development of the better characters.

Furthermore, Rey's family was a mystery with a deliberately disappointing answer: she wasn't important. She came from nothing. That was difficult for audiences and Rey to hear because it wasn't what anyone wanted. It forced people to grapple with the idea that a hero could come from nothing. You didn't need to have a pre-existing tie to the narrative to be relevant in it. However, in The Rise of Skywalker, as though to calm down the fans who were disappointed by this deliberately disappointing twist, we learn Rey is the grand-daughter of Palpatine. While it is a shocking twist, fans expected her to be related to someone major in the franchise. We already had the twist that the hero was related to a huge villain in The Empire Strikes Back, so this feels familiar enough for fans to accept. Which also gives it less impact.

Johnson understood that fans expected certain things to happen. By deliberately not delivering on those things, he forced fans to reconsider what they wanted. Because, ultimately, The Last Jedi is one of the best Star Wars films in the Disney Era. It approaches tough themes: the idea of legacy, mythologizing your heroes and building off of failure. The Rise of Skywalker is by no means a bad film at all -- and fans deserve fan-service fun once in a blue moon. However, we also need films that challenge us. Star Wars needs more Rian Johnsons in its galaxy.

Directed and co-written by J.J. Abrams, Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker stars Daisy Ridley, Adam Driver, John Boyega, Oscar Isaac, Lupita Nyong’o, Domhnall Gleeson, Kelly Marie Tran, Joonas Suotamo, Billie Lourd, Keri Russell, Anthony Daniels, Mark Hamill, Billy Dee Williams, and Carrie Fisher, with Naomi Ackie and Richard E. Grant.

Star Wars should be big enough for multiple interpretations. The really successful, long-running franchises generally are (Doctor Who, DC, Marvel, etc). If it isn't, then eventually, it will wither.

It will be interesting to see, beyond the appraisals of the film itself, how ROS affects perceptions of TLJ and Johnson. To see which narrative will win out: that ROS was damaged by TLJ backlash and Abrams having to fix Johnson's mistakes, or whether it will lead to a reevaluation of TLJ for at least trying to do something original.

[AniThyng]

- It's amazing how perfunctory and transparent the side-lining of Rose Tico's character is. "Gotta look at stuff about old destroyers" for ... reasons, I guess.

Charitably because at that point they sort of knew the sith fleet was made up of ISD-I's.

Looks like the VD actually makes things even worse for the shelving of Rose since those are not old destroyers at all but a new updated and upscaled design, and in the movie none of that research paid off anyway.

[Vympel]

Star Wars should be big enough for multiple interpretations. The really successful, long-running franchises generally are (Doctor Who, DC, Marvel, etc). If it isn't, then eventually, it will wither.

It will be interesting to see, beyond the appraisals of the film itself, how ROS affects perceptions of TLJ and Johnson. To see which narrative will win out: that ROS was damaged by TLJ backlash and Abrams having to fix Johnson's mistakes, or whether it will lead to a reevaluation of TLJ for at least trying to do something original.

Given TLJ's already excellent critial reputation and the fact that Johnson's reputation started out well has only grown recently (Knives Out) I don't think there's any doubt that TROS' missteps and relative cowardice will only increase TLJ's reptuation over time. TROS' mixed reviews are not at all undeserved. And for TROS to also get the only B+ CinemaScore in the franchise's entire history (literally every other movie has gotten some sort of A!) isn't a great accolade, either.

Only the most blinkered hater would actually try and argue, with a straight face, that somehow Abrams/Terrio had no choice but to bring the Emperor back at all, or if they did indeed have no choice, in the way they did, with all the consequences and problems that entailed. That they had no choice but to tell some cockamamie-ass retcon story about how Rey is actually space royalty after all. That some convoluted National Treasure plot was the best possible use of the film's limited time because of TLJ, somehow. It doesn't track as an argument at all.

Charitably because at that point they sort of knew the sith fleet was made up of ISD-I's.

Looks like the VD actually makes things even worse for the shelving of Rose since those are not old destroyers at all but a new updated and upscaled design, and in the movie none of that research paid off anyway.

Yeah. It's the most blatant handwave dismissal I've ever seen in any sort of franchise picture.

[streetad]

I think the huge, huge failure of this Disney trilogy has been in world building.

By some miracle in the space of three films they've managed to create a more incoherent, incomprehensible mess of a setting than the previous EU managed in dozens and dozens of mostly terrible books, comics and computer games.

Everything that happens, happens in service of the plot. Doesn't make sense? Stop overthinking it, nerd! There is just no sense that this is a living, coherent setting where anything happens that doesn't immediately involve the main characters.

People like Abrams shouldn't write sci-fi/fantasy because it gives them the crutch of using any technological or fantasy elements as an incredibly lazy magic button to get out of the plot cul-de-sacs they have completely avoidably written themselves into.

I'm not even particularly talking about WW2 bombers in space or suddenly magic star destroyers appearing from nowhere even completely changing the way hyperspace works in every single movie for plot convenience. It's really fundamental stuff like what the fuck happened to the Republic between the first and second film, who exactly the First Order even ARE and who the fuck all these random people are who have turned up to fight the gub'mint with their military issue hardware like some NRA wet dream?

None of them matter because their name isn't Palpatine or Skywalker. They are just cardboard props in the background for the main character's story to play out in front of.

[streetad]

And the explosion of the Death Star should have caused an Endor holocaust, but it didn't. What can ya do?

Wait a few decades for this film to have the same nostalgia fuelled excuses for any perceived shortcomings?

Oh I can't wait for the day to come when people are talking about how great the ST is and how Episodes XIII-XV ruined Star Wars.

Given the current rate of SW films that should be around 2025.

[Patroklos]

The ST didn’t rehabilitate the prequels. These will take their place is a distant spot behind the OT. I am not sure which will be considered worse between the prequels and ST. The ST are better made films in my opinion.

[Vendetta]

The ST didn’t rehabilitate the prequels. These will take their place is a distant spot behind the OT. I am not sure which will be considered worse between the prequels and ST. The ST are better made films in my opinion.

Yeah, my opinion that Guardians of the Galaxy is the best Star Wars movie since 1980 remains untroubled by the sequels....

[Formless]

The ST didn’t rehabilitate the prequels. These will take their place is a distant spot behind the OT. I am not sure which will be considered worse between the prequels and ST. The ST are better made films in my opinion.

You are right, of course. The prequels weren't rehabilitated by the sequel trilogy. The prequel trilogy was a fine set of movies, and the reason the sequels have changed people's opinions on the prequels is that its faults revealed to them just how much they had invested in the story George Lucas had written in all six movies as a whole. It revealed to them that much of the complaining was likely coming from a select few vocal fans with influential platforms to speak out on (like Red Letter Media). The sequels showed people what truly bad writing looked like at a basic story level, so that people could get past the cringe factor of the Prequel dialogue and look at what worked in them. Heck, for some people The Last Jedi even has worse dialogue than anything George Lucas put onscreen. The sequels did a lot of things, but its true that they didn't retroactively change one bit of the Prequel trilogy's actual script and story. They simply revealed that the Prequels were never as bad as people had come to remember them being, now that they had a truly shitty trilogy to compare them to. That's why people's opinions towards the prequels are now changing because of the sequels. But for some of us, that was always our opinion. Feel free to disagree with it. The Prequels didn't need rehabilitation. What they needed, and what they are finally getting, is reevaluation.

People like Abrams shouldn't write sci-fi/fantasy because it gives them the crutch of using any technological or fantasy elements as an incredibly lazy magic button to get out of the plot cul-de-sacs they have completely avoidably written themselves into.

I mean, I've been saying this about Abrams and science fiction since he was put in charge of rebooting the Star Trek films. There just isn't any substance to his writing, on a number of levels, and his sense of aesthetics offends me in a way I have difficulty putting to words. It looks too surreal for either the Trek franchise or Star Wars. Star Wars is supposed to have a lived in, used future aesthetic, while Trek is supposed to look cleaner, but if anything its supposed to look like a place you want to live and work in. But in Abrams hands they both take on a dreamlike quality that fits neither franchise well. Star Wars isn't actually a fairy tale, its only inspired by them. And Star Trek was moving away from camp before he was brought in.

[Vendetta]

Film Crit Hulk has a good column on JJ Abrams as a director, which explains many things.

https://www.patreon.com/posts/32504876

[Ralin]

So I saw the movie again last night (its Star Wars, I can't just watch it once, no matter how much it disappointed me).

I'm pretty sure someone is obligated to make this joke, so: https://youtu.be/3lPG1u6EbiY?t=203

[Galvatron]

The ST didn’t rehabilitate the prequels. These will take their place is a distant spot behind the OT. I am not sure which will be considered worse between the prequels and ST. The ST are better made films in my opinion.

Fully agreed. Even the worst of the Disney-era Star Wars films are better than the prequels.

[Vympel]

So I saw the movie again last night (its Star Wars, I can't just watch it once, no matter how much it disappointed me).

I'm pretty sure someone is obligated to make this joke, so: https://youtu.be/3lPG1u6EbiY?t=203

LOL. Yeah, after 2 times though, I doubt I'll go back to the cinema gain. Every previous film (except Solo, which I saw once in the cinema and once at home) I saw like four times in the cinema at least? But no. TROS is too much of a disappointment. I'll wait for the home release.

[Patroklos]

You are right, of course. The prequels weren't rehabilitated by the sequel trilogy. The prequel trilogy was a fine set of movies, and the reason the sequels have changed people's opinions on the prequels is that its faults revealed to them just how much they had invested in the story George Lucas had written in all six movies as a whole. It revealed to them that much of the complaining was likely coming from a select few vocal fans with influential platforms to speak out on (like Red Letter Media). The sequels showed people what truly bad writing looked like at a basic story level, so that people could get past the cringe factor of the Prequel dialogue and look at what worked in them. Heck, for some people The Last Jedi even has worse dialogue than anything George Lucas put onscreen. The sequels did a lot of things, but its true that they didn't retroactively change one bit of the Prequel trilogy's actual script and story. They simply revealed that the Prequels were never as bad as people had come to remember them being, now that they had a truly shitty trilogy to compare them to. That's why people's opinions towards the prequels are now changing because of the sequels. But for some of us, that was always our opinion. Feel free to disagree with it. The Prequels didn't need rehabilitation. What they needed, and what they are finally getting, is reevaluation.

I don't think this is correct. Two things can be objectively bad at the same time for their own reasons. Something being worse doesn't make something else less bad in absolute terms. Just because some might think the established floor or awful in the SW cinematic measure has been pushed lower than previously thought possible doesn't raise another entry any closer to good.

I personally still feel AOTC is the worst entry in the franchise. I am torn on where to put any of the ST because while like I said they are better-made movies (as in the physical craft or film making like props, costumes, sets, etc) the prequels had a better story. The ST had better performances and dialogue (minus some shocking examples like the yo momma joke) but it was ultimately in service to nothing as there is no coherent plot. The prequels were oddly far more adept at world-building given they had three fils they had to link up to, vice diverge from like the ST. Continuity should have been an easy given for the ST, but they just couldn't help themselves.

I am sure we will argue over it forever. Or maybe not. I am so used to shit at this point I don't even have much desire to delve into this one, as opposed to my active commenting on the last two. I suppose its interesting how TLJ and TROS can be so objectively crap in such divergent ways, but again whatever. Let these fade into pop culture nothingness just like the prequels.

As I mentioned with TFA and TLJ, while Christmas shopping for the kiddo this year there was not a prequel toy in site besides some minor lego kits. Not a single prequel action figure was on the shelf from any of the related properties. The more surprising thing was that the OT stuff vastly outnumbered the ST gear with the exception of legos (though there was plenty of OT stuff there too). OT Leia and Luck action figures for days, with a few Rey's off to the side. Anecdotal, but follow the money.

[Formless]

I don't think this is correct. Two things can be objectively bad at the same time for their own reasons. Something being worse doesn't make something else less bad in absolute terms. Just because some might think the established floor or awful in the SW cinematic measure has been pushed lower than previously thought possible doesn't raise another entry any closer to good.

That's not what I'm saying. That's an argument for the films being rehabilitated by another film's badness. I'm saying they are being reevaluated. In other words, people are re-watching the prequels because they want to know whether they were right to criticize them so harshly, or whether it was just trendy and bullshit. That doesn't have to do with the sequels per-say, but as I will get to, it is motivated by them. For the record, even I think I was too harsh on AotC in the past, because I just found the hairjob for Obi-Wan and other little aesthetic details bothersome. But the story is fine. Anyway, a lot of people do this, and find that... yeah, actually, those films weren't half bad. Sith in particular tends to make people's list of top 3 Star Wars films, which is an achievement. Some people might find that their previous criticisms of the films don't hold up to scrutiny; for instance, some people might find that TPM's politics aren't that damn confusing after all, and while not the most action packed portion of the movie, its mere presence adds something critical that TFA and TLJ lack entirely. For the record, still haven't seen tRoS, so I can't say whether it has politics, but I'm not counting on a man who openly dissed the prequels in his first film to bring politics back into the story in the last act.

The only role of the Disney films in this process is that of a catalyst. People watch the Disney sequels and find disappointment. Finding disappointment, they go back and binge earlier movies looking for satisfaction, pop in TPM for laughs, and come out with a new appreciation of it. Rinse and repeat for the other two Prequel movies. Or they find themselves asking hard questions about what is important in a Star Wars movie after watching the sequels and find that the criticisms they had of the Prequels seem less important after answering that question; and so can watch them again with a fresh perspective. The Sequels aren't just bad, they are bad in ways that make people question what they value in a film-- script or story-- and ultimately many people decide that story is more important, at least once they realize the two are not the same.

What is interesting is that The Force Awakens is an example of a film that later films could have actually rehabilitated. This is because of what specifically was bad about it: it revealed nothing. Or at least it revealed only trivial things. This is actually a first for Star Wars-- every other film revealed something important. A New Hope revealed the most if taken alone, and the least if watched after watching the Prequels, but even after watching the prequels you get the idea that there is a rebellion against Palpatine's Empire, that the senate has been dissolved entirely, and that the son of Skywalker is indeed a potential Jedi (unprecedented because the Jedi were celibate). That's a lot of important things that you need to know moving forward. The only question The Force Awakens answers is where Luke went off to, but not why he left. Even the last minute of the film is dedicated to creating a question rather than answering one! The important thing to note here, though, is that the Mystery Boxes tie the quality of TFA to the movies that come after, which is not also true of the Prequels. If The Last Jedi and Rise of Skywalker had been good and provided satisfactory answers to the mysteries, even if they had to be pulled out of a hat, then the movie could have been forgiven (by the audience) as merely a film about setup. But its actually a film about nothing, just as meaningless as its title. And that's why I don't think the Disney sequels are rehabilitating the Prequels. The Prequels are rehabilitated by Revenge of the Sith, and by the original trilogy. The whole of the original six film saga is better than the sum of its parts. The sequels fail by the lack of any such cohesion between them.

As I mentioned with TFA and TLJ, while Christmas shopping for the kiddo this year there was not a prequel toy in site besides some minor lego kits. Not a single prequel action figure was on the shelf from any of the related properties. The more surprising thing was that the OT stuff vastly outnumbered the ST gear with the exception of legos (though there was plenty of OT stuff there too). OT Leia and Luck action figures for days, with a few Rey's off to the side. Anecdotal, but follow the money.

Honestly, that tells me more about the beliefs of Disney's marketing department and their lack of confidence in anything but the original trilogy than it does about the fans and their taste in toys and action figures. Lucasfilm during Lucas's tenure was exceedingly confident in their movies, and I think for good reason-- when the Prequels were still coming out, prequel trilogy toys and merch sold quite well, anecdotally speaking. Everyone seemed to want that shit, and the stores never seemed to lack for inventory.

Honestly, everything I've heard about the toy sales suggest that Disney is surprisingly incompetent at handling the merchandise side of the franchise, even though it is well known that toys were Lucas's real money maker, and a brilliant innovation. Video games too. One good game in the entire release cycle of the whole damn trilogy, and not one of them even manage to tie in to the new films? You would think people would want to play a game starring Rey, Poe, and Finn, but nooooooooope! Gots to make more games set in the Rebellion era. No wonder no one wants Rey action figures. She was never given the same chance as Luke and Leia.

[Adam Reynolds]

The ST didn’t rehabilitate the prequels. These will take their place is a distant spot behind the OT. I am not sure which will be considered worse between the prequels and ST. The ST are better made films in my opinion.

They are better films, but they are also a worse addition to Star Wars as a setting. Is there anything truly interesting they add to the universe of Star Wars that isn't bad like Starkiller Base or the even worse version of Dark Empire that was ROS? Lucas really is better at coming up with cool ideas, his problem is in execution.

Yeah, my opinion that Guardians of the Galaxy is the best Star Wars movie since 1980 remains untroubled by the sequels....

Seriously this. How is it that Marvel made a better Star Wars movie than actual Star Wars?

There actually is an answer, and it is something that most Star Wars fans easily forget. Part of what made the original Star Wars so good is that it really did subvert expectations quite frequently in the first two movies. A character like Yoda really was quite surprising, with the twist that Luke's mentor is a Muppet living in a swamp.

The problem is that Star Wars is now so well established, this has been all but forgotten. This is something The Last Jedi often did right, but that caused many people to dislike it. Guardians of the Galaxy gave a feeling much closer to the original Star Wars because it was also able to subvert some of your expectations in ways that were just plain fun, as a result of the fact that their universe is whatever they want it to be as opposed to being set in stone in the way that Star Wars currently is.

As I mentioned with TFA and TLJ, while Christmas shopping for the kiddo this year there was not a prequel toy in site besides some minor lego kits. Not a single prequel action figure was on the shelf from any of the related properties. The more surprising thing was that the OT stuff vastly outnumbered the ST gear with the exception of legos (though there was plenty of OT stuff there too). OT Leia and Luck action figures for days, with a few Rey's off to the side. Anecdotal, but follow the money.

Something I find odd is that the overwhelming majority of supporting material right now is still OT era despite the fact that they are finishing up the sequel trilogy. New works generally focus on the OT era rather than serving as tie ins to the new movies, which tells you what they think about their own worldbuilding. Back when the prequels were coming out, the overwhelming majority of works were focused on them.

This makes me wonder what would have happened if Rogue One had been the first new Star Wars movie instead of The Force Awakens. How successful would it have been? I also wonder what this says about ideas like making a new trilogy in the KOTOR era.

[Galvatron]

The OT is and always will be the bread and butter of the Star Wars brand. I expect that the Obi-Wan and (especially) the Cassian Andor series will both have a distinct OT feel to them as well, just like The Mandalorian does.

So people can decry "OT fanboyism" all they want, but that's where the money is. Denying that reality and expecting Disney to follow suit is just ridiculous.

[Darth Yan]

The ST didn’t rehabilitate the prequels. These will take their place is a distant spot behind the OT. I am not sure which will be considered worse between the prequels and ST. The ST are better made films in my opinion.

They are better films, but they are also a worse addition to Star Wars as a setting. Is there anything truly interesting they add to the universe of Star Wars that isn't bad like Starkiller Base or the even worse version of Dark Empire that was ROS? Lucas really is better at coming up with cool ideas, his problem is in execution.

Yeah, my opinion that Guardians of the Galaxy is the best Star Wars movie since 1980 remains untroubled by the sequels....

Seriously this. How is it that Marvel made a better Star Wars movie than actual Star Wars?

There actually is an answer, and it is something that most Star Wars fans easily forget. Part of what made the original Star Wars so good is that it really did subvert expectations quite frequently in the first two movies. A character like Yoda really was quite surprising, with the twist that Luke's mentor is a Muppet living in a swamp.

The problem is that Star Wars is now so well established, this has been all but forgotten. This is something The Last Jedi often did right, but that caused many people to dislike it. Guardians of the Galaxy gave a feeling much closer to the original Star Wars because it was also able to subvert some of your expectations in ways that were just plain fun, as a result of the fact that their universe is whatever they want it to be as opposed to being set in stone in the way that Star Wars currently is.

As I mentioned with TFA and TLJ, while Christmas shopping for the kiddo this year there was not a prequel toy in site besides some minor lego kits. Not a single prequel action figure was on the shelf from any of the related properties. The more surprising thing was that the OT stuff vastly outnumbered the ST gear with the exception of legos (though there was plenty of OT stuff there too). OT Leia and Luck action figures for days, with a few Rey's off to the side. Anecdotal, but follow the money.

Something I find odd is that the overwhelming majority of supporting material right now is still OT era despite the fact that they are finishing up the sequel trilogy. New works generally focus on the OT era rather than serving as tie ins to the new movies, which tells you what they think about their own worldbuilding. Back when the prequels were coming out, the overwhelming majority of works were focused on them.

This makes me wonder what would have happened if Rogue One had been the first new Star Wars movie instead of The Force Awakens. How successful would it have been? I also wonder what this says about ideas like making a new trilogy in the KOTOR era.

At the same time it felt like Johnson was imitating the Originals. Kylo killing Snoke was a blatant Vader ripoff among other things. The Leia poppins thing was just dumb as well.

[Solauren]

I found Leia 'flying' through space to be the LEAST offensive misrepresentation of the Force in the new trilogy.

I mean, if the Jedi can lift starfighters and larger, then moving themselves in a Zero-G environment, towards a larger object, is rather tame by comparison.