The SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19 coronavirus

[The Romulan Republic]

A 72 hour quarantine for something that may not show symptoms for considerably longer than that? Well that's rather useless, isn't it?

I mean, it's more than nothing. And this is America. No one wants to pay for a 2+ week hospital stay, and there are limits to the government's ability to just tell people they have to.

Oh yeah, I momentarily forgot that in the land of the free, they'd charge people crippling medical bills for an involuntary quarantine.

[The Romulan Republic]

Well, its officially a global health emergency:

https://bbc.com/news/world-51318246

The new coronavirus has been declared a global emergency by the World Health Organization, as the outbreak continues to spread outside China.

"The main reason for this declaration is not what is happening in China but what is happening in other countries," said WHO chief Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus.

The concern is that it could spread to countries with weaker health systems.

At least 213 people have died from the virus in China.

The WHO said there had been 98 cases in 18 other countries, but no deaths. Most cases have emerged in people who have travelled from the Chinese city of Wuhan, where the outbreak began.

However, there have been eight cases of human-to-human infection - in Germany, Japan, Vietnam and the United States.

Speaking at a news conference in Geneva, Dr Tedros described the virus as an "unprecedented outbreak" that has been met with an "unprecedented response".

59was the average age of those infected

89%were not hospitalised until at least five days of illness

56%of the cases were men

55%of cases diagnosed before 1 January linked to seafood market

Source: The New England Journal of Medicine

He praised the "extraordinary measures" Chinese authorities had taken to prevent it from spreading and said there was no reason to limit trade or travel to China, adding: "Let me be clear, this declaration is not a vote of no confidence in China".

But various countries have taken steps to close borders or cancel flights in recent days, and companies like Google, Ikea, Starbucks and Tesla have closed their shops or stopped operations.

Preparing other countries

What happens if this virus finds its way into a country that cannot cope? Many low and middle income countries simply lack the tools to spot or contain it. The fear is it could spread uncontrollably and that it may go unnoticed for some time.

Remember this is a disease which emerged only last month and yet there are already 7,736 confirmed cases in China and 12,167 suspected ones.

The 2014 Ebola outbreak in West Africa - the largest in human history - showed how easily poorer countries can be overwhelmed by such outbreaks. And if novel coronavirus gets a significant foothold in such places then it would be incredibly difficult to contain.

We are not at that stage yet - 99% of cases are in China and the WHO is convinced the country can control the outbreak there. But declaring a global emergency allows the WHO to support lower and middle income countries to strengthen their disease surveillance and prepare them for coronavirus cases.

How unusual is this declaration?

The WHO declares a Public Health Emergency of International Concern when there is "an extraordinary event which is determined… to constitute a public health risk to other states through the international spread of disease".

It has previously declared five global public health emergencies:

Swine flu, 2009 -The H1N1 virus spread across the world in 2009, killing more than 200,000 people, and a public health emergency was called to ensure the world was carefully monitoring its spread and able to respond, including with vaccines.
Polio, 2014 - Although closer than ever to eradication in 2012, polio numbers rose in 2013. An emergency was declared due to fears the global fight against its eradication could face a major setback.
Zika, 2016 - The WHO declared Zika a public health emergency in 2016 after the disease spread rapidly through the Americas. Although for many Zika symptoms are mild, it can be dangerous for pregnant women and the emergency was called to spur urgent research.
Ebola, 2014 and 2019 - The first emergency over the virus lasted from August 2014 to March 2016 as almost 30,000 people were infected and more than 11,000 died in West Africa. The WHO cited "the virulence of the virus, the intensive community and health facility transmission patterns, and the weak health systems" in affected countries. A second emergency was declared last year as an outbreak spread in DR Congo.

How is China handling the outbreak?

A confirmed case in Tibet means the virus has now reached every region in mainland China. According to the country's National Health Commission, 9,692 cases have tested positive.

Although questions have been raised about transparency, the WHO has praised China's handling of the outbreak. President Xi Jinping has vowed to defeat what he called a "devil" virus.

The central province of Hubei, where nearly all deaths have occurred, is in a state of lockdown. The province of 60 million people is home to Wuhan, the heart of the outbreak.

The city has effectively been sealed off and China has put numerous transport restrictions in place to curb the spread of the virus.

People who have been in Hubei are also being told by their employers to work from home until it is considered safe for them to return.

The virus is affecting China's economy, the world's second-largest, with a growing number of countries advising their citizens to avoid all non-essential travel to the country.

How is the world responding?

Voluntary evacuations of hundreds of foreign nationals from Wuhan are under way, and the UK, Australia, South Korea, Singapore and New Zealand are expected to quarantine all evacuees for two weeks to monitor them for symptoms and avoid any contagion.

Britons in Wuhan to return home on Friday

Australia plans to quarantine its evacuees on Christmas Island, 2,000km (1,200 miles) from the mainland in a detention centre that has been used to house asylum seekers.

Countries with diagnosed cases have been keeping patients in isolation. Other recent developments:

Italy suspended flights to China after two Chinese tourists in Rome were diagnosed with the virus; earlier 6,000 people on board a cruise ship were temporarily barred from disembarking after a Chinese passenger was suspected of having the virus but tests came back as negative
In the US,Chicago health officials have reported the first US case of human-to-human transmission; and around 200 US citizens have been flown out of Wuhan and are being isolated at a Californian military base for at least 72 hours
Russia has decided to close its 4,300km (2,670-mile) far-eastern border with China in an attempt to prevent contagion
Flights to take British and South Korean citizens out of Wuhan have both been delayed, after relevant permissions from the Chinese authorities did not come through
Two flights to Japan have already landed in Tokyo. Three passengers have so far tested positive for the virus, Japanese media report
Two aircraft are due to fly EU citizens home, with 250 French nationals leaving on the first flight
India has confirmed its first case of the virus - a student in the southern state of Kerala who was studying in Wuhan

[Ziggy Stardust]

This is unfortunately an issue about which I am not permitted to say much at the moment, since I am currently involved with a team at work that is dealing directly with surveillance of the coronavirus and developing an rRT-PCR diagnostic, and anything I say could theoretically be taken out of context as an official announcement.

I will say that the morbidity and mortality rates of this virus are lower than previous epidemics (e.g. SARS or H1N1pdm09), although at the moment we don't have very accurate numbers as to its incidence so it will be a while before we can say with confidence. China and south-east Asia are the most likely to be hit hard by this, due to imperfect control measures (the "lockdown" on Wuhan is not nearly so complete as some of the Western media outlets are sometimes portraying it, we are still going to see plenty of people transmitting the virus from Wuhan to other areas of China) and high population densities. Unofficially, current models suggest the peak of this epidemic will be in April.

[mr friendly guy]

The first hospital being built has finished construction. There is another one being built as well, and the old temporary one in Beijing used to treat SARS is undergoing refurbishment as well.

[The Romulan Republic]

The first hospital being built has finished construction. There is another one being built as well, and the old temporary one in Beijing used to treat SARS is undergoing refurbishment as well.

Well, that's impressively quick. I probably don't want to know what corners were cut to get it done, but China sure can mobilize fast in a crisis.

And yeah, China is a dictatorship, but contrary to popular mythology (propagated by dictators and their apologists) dictatorships aren't inherently more efficient than democracies. There are loads of pitifully incompetent dictatorships littering history. So yeah, impressive.

[mr friendly guy]

The first hospital being built has finished construction. There is another one being built as well, and the old temporary one in Beijing used to treat SARS is undergoing refurbishment as well.

Well, that's impressively quick. I probably don't want to know what corners were cut to get it done, but China sure can mobilize fast in a crisis.

And yeah, China is a dictatorship, but contrary to popular mythology (propagated by dictators and their apologists) dictatorships aren't inherently more efficient than democracies. There are loads of pitifully incompetent dictatorships littering history. So yeah, impressive.

I know coming from a country whose own engineers give their infrastructure a D+, it must seem amazing to you. But of course if you just ask the Chinese, they will tell you its used from prefab parts, its faster to build the parts in one place then assemble them in another rather than the traditional methods. Moreover since its based on what they did for SARS, the plan for the hospitals are most probably already in existence, just requiring little tweaks.

You can also watch the construction of the second hospital live, so you can catch any corners being cut. Go on, catch them out.

I am going to help you with suggestions about, "the corners they might cut". Since its designed to treat coronavirus, they most probably don't need some facilities a normal hospital might need. For example operating theatres, which a bit more complicated than a typical room. They won't need radiation oncology facilities either for obvious reasons. Imaging facilities will need basic xrays, and likely a CT as well given that some patients develop ARDS. MRI (which is power expensive) seems unnecessary given that they are used to look for specific illnesses which aren't relevant here. Nuclear medicine scanning such as PET scans will also be unnecessary for the same reason.

BTW the Chinese hold the records for various infrastructure projects such as longest bridges by type etc. One of the reasons why they do it fast is technological and the strength of their companies which work in construction, and less to do with the fact they have a government you don't like.

[mr friendly guy]

https://i.redd.it/oy3n05wsehe41.png


Found this on reddit. Haven't had time to check all this, but I assume the source is Business insider collating info from the sources listed.

[The Romulan Republic]

Sigh...

The first hospital being built has finished construction. There is another one being built as well, and the old temporary one in Beijing used to treat SARS is undergoing refurbishment as well.

Well, that's impressively quick. I probably don't want to know what corners were cut to get it done, but China sure can mobilize fast in a crisis.

And yeah, China is a dictatorship, but contrary to popular mythology (propagated by dictators and their apologists) dictatorships aren't inherently more efficient than democracies. There are loads of pitifully incompetent dictatorships littering history. So yeah, impressive.

I know coming from a country whose own engineers give their infrastructure a D+, it must seem amazing to you.

Yes yes, very condescending, truly us lowly and ignorant Americans must be awed by the superiority of China.

I could list numerous feats of American engineering (granted mostly ones that took place at least a few decades ago), but this isn't the thread for a nationalist dick-measuring contest.

But of course if you just ask the Chinese, they will tell you its used from prefab parts, its faster to build the parts in one place then assemble them in another rather than the traditional methods. Moreover since its based on what they did for SARS, the plan for the hospitals are most probably already in existence, just requiring little tweaks.

You can also watch the construction of the second hospital live, so you can catch any corners being cut. Go on, catch them out.

As you know full well, I'm not an engineer, and such a video won't show me every single step of the supply, design and construction even if I was, so it is literally impossible for me to make that determination.

Remarkably fast results do tend to suggest to me that something was skipped over or not done quite as meticulously or carefully as it otherwise might have been, but I can't prove that's the case, so I'll leave it at that.

I also don't think I could really fault China for it anyway, under the circumstances. The priority is getting the thousands of sick people into hospital.

I am going to help you with suggestions about, "the corners they might cut". Since its designed to treat coronavirus, they most probably don't need some facilities a normal hospital might need. For example operating theatres, which a bit more complicated than a typical room. They won't need radiation oncology facilities either for obvious reasons. Imaging facilities will need basic xrays, and likely a CT as well given that some patients develop ARDS. MRI (which is power expensive) seems unnecessary given that they are used to look for specific illnesses which aren't relevant here. Nuclear medicine scanning such as PET scans will also be unnecessary for the same reason.

BTW the Chinese hold the records for various infrastructure projects such as longest bridges by type etc. One of the reasons why they do it fast is technological and the strength of their companies which work in construction, and less to do with the fact they have a government you don't like.

I'm well aware of the scale of some of China's infrastructure, thank you. I'm the one who praised a genuinely competent response by the Chinese government, while acknowledging (because there are persistent misconceptions about the subject) that such efficiency does not stem directly from being a dictatorship.

[aerius]

They're not building high tech containment buildings for the patients, think of these "hospitals" as a large no-frills dorm to keep patients & medical personnel in a relatively clean & climate controlled environment and you're not far off. It's not a containment lab and they're not going to filter every last molecule of air going in & out, it's just a large building with a roof, climate control, lighting, water, and sewage so the medics can work in comfort and the patients aren't freezing their asses off and shitting themselves in a tent city. Getting the hospitals up & running ASAP is far more important than building them to Western standards.

Didn't really try to sort through all the stuff relating to the virus until the last couple days, I have to admit I'm out of my depth here. There's way too many conflicting reports and I don't have the medical background to make sense of it plus there's a language & cultural barrier as well. Going by the official numbers it doesn't appear too bad since the infection rate has levelled out to linear and is no longer exponential, and the death rate isn't terrible.

Economic impacts and effects on global supply chains could be interesting if this goes on long enough. If China ends up having to quarantine a bunch of its manufacturing centres or transport hubs, that's when shit gets real. Like it or not China has become the world's factory for many everyday goods, and if that flow of goods gets threatened, that's when things get dicey both in China and around the world. What? You mean America just lost the supplier of 90%* of its consumer goods? What do we do now?



*90% is a number I pulled out of my ass, but it sure seems like 90% of everything I see in a retail store is made in China.

[mr friendly guy]

Yes yes, very condescending, truly us lowly and ignorant Americans must be awed by the superiority of China.

Buddy, you started it with the use of the racist stereotype about Chinese manufacturing quality. You remember the line about cutting corners, and you whine when I return the favour in kind. I believe you liberals have a term to describe this, where you can't see your own racism. What's it called again? Oh that's right, white privilege.

As you know full well, I'm not an engineer, and such a video won't show me every single step of the supply, design and construction even if I was, so it is literally impossible for me to make that determination.

But you feel qualified enough to alleged corners being cut. Sounds legit to me.

Remarkably fast results do tend to suggest to me that something was skipped over or not done quite as meticulously or carefully as it otherwise might have been, but I can't prove that's the case, so I'll leave it at that.

If you look up other Chinese building feats in terms of speed, you will find this is up there, but not as fast as others. Off the top of my head I can think of two construction examples which were faster using prefabricated parts, if you don't count the time it takes to make the prefab parts.

They're not building high tech containment buildings for the patients, think of these "hospitals" as a large no-frills dorm to keep patients & medical personnel in a relatively clean & climate controlled environment and you're not far off. It's not a containment lab and they're not going to filter every last molecule of air going in & out, it's just a large building with a roof, climate control, lighting, water, and sewage so the medics can work in comfort and the patients aren't freezing their asses off and shitting themselves in a tent city. Getting the hospitals up & running ASAP is far more important than building them to Western standards.

As per WSJ, they do have some isolated rooms which actually do filter, but not all of the rooms have this capability. They do however have an ICU. As I mentioned earlier, there are a lot of facilities what a state of the art hospital would require, but these ones do not since they are just for treating one disease. This would obviously save time in construction.

[The Romulan Republic]

Yes yes, very condescending, truly us lowly and ignorant Americans must be awed by the superiority of China.

Buddy, you started it with the use of the racist stereotype about Chinese manufacturing quality. You remember the line about cutting corners, and you whine when I return the favour in kind. I believe you liberals have a term to describe this, where you can't see your own racism. What's it called again? Oh that's right, white privilege.

Of course it is possible to be unconsciously or unintentionally racist, and I'm arrogant enough to claim immunity to that, but my stated reasons in this case had nothing to do with race or any racial stereotype, and none was intended. China does not have a monopoly on questionable practices, in manufacturing or otherwise, but neither is it immune to them.

I'll add that you are the one here who has actually just admitted to engaging in bigotry against a nationality (which of course you believe is perfectly justified, because supposedly I did it first, and as any good practitioner of Whataboutism knows, that makes anything okay).

But you feel qualified enough to alleged corners being cut. Sounds legit to me.

I explained my thoughts on the subject. You derailed the thread so you could ride in on your white horse to defend the honour of the poor persecuted dictatorship.

Anyway, obvious thread derail is obvious. This thread is about the coronavirus, not your love for the Chinese dictatorship (which I'll freely acknowledge seems to have handled this situation fairly well thus far).

[mr friendly guy]

Of course it is possible to be unconsciously or unintentionally racist, and I'm arrogant enough to claim immunity to that, but my stated reasons in this case had nothing to do with race or any racial stereotype, and none was intended. China does not have a monopoly on questionable practices, in manufacturing or otherwise, but neither is it immune to them.

Yes, but you're using a racist stereotype regardless. Do you deny there is a racist stereotype against Chinese goods being poor quality from cutting corners despite the fact that a lot of their goods are actually high quality?

I'll add that you are the one here who has actually just admitted to engaging in bigotry against a nationality (which of course you believe is perfectly justified, because supposedly I did it first, and as any good practitioner of Whataboutism knows, that makes anything okay).

US engineers did give US infrastructure a D + rating in 2017. I am pointing out that may contribute to you being amazed that China managed to build a hospital in such a short time, so amazed that you think they must be cutting corners. Despite you know, the hospital built in Beijing for SARS was built in a shorter time span and is still standing to this day. Obviously you're simply unfamiliar with how fast some countries are capable to building infrastructure given how America has let its infrastructure decline.

I explained my thoughts on the subject. You derailed the thread so you could ride in on your white horse to defend the honour of the poor persecuted dictatorship.

The racist stereotype against Chinese goods isn't confined to government state own enterprises genius. Who are you kidding? Oh wait, another one of these leftist who are racist and then cover it up by saying I am not against Chinese people, just their government? Yeah, maybe you've black friends too huh?

Anyway, obvious thread derail is obvious. This thread is about the coronavirus, not your love for the Chinese dictatorship (which I'll freely acknowledge seems to have handled this situation fairly well thus far).

You brought up their form of government. I freely admit their capability to construct the hospital is based on technology, strong construction companies and using prefab parts, less need for all the "bells and whistles" a state of the art hospital requires, and less to do with their government structure. But I will make this real easy for you. You heard the phrase "it doesn't matter whether the cat is white or black, as long as it catches mice?" Because that's how I see the Chinese government, so you can shove all this black/white fallacy out.

[mr friendly guy]

Bit more updates on the virus from one of my feeds

1 Mask shortages
China has sourced some masks from elsewhere, including donations from India and Japan. Taiwan lacked the means to help so had to restrict their own masks.

China's own news reports the problem with mask shortages.
https://news.cgtn.com/news/2020-02-03/W ... index.html

Long story short, China used to produce a lot of masks in 2010s due to pollution but that manufacturing industry took a hit since China's pollution improved. While the article didn't mention this, Al Jazeera did talk about how hospitals have failed to stock up on reserves.

So China managed to crank up some mask production as well as asking civilians to reserve it for medical personnel.

https://news.cgtn.com/news/2020-02-02/B ... index.html

Basically they cut corners by stealing Doctor Who's TARDIS and travelling back in time to build this factory. Oh wait, no they didn't. They found a manufacturer with the equipment but not factory built yet, took and empty factory slot and matched them up. Its reportedly capable of churning out tens of millions a month.

2 Possible treatment

https://www.dailysabah.com/health/2020/ ... n-48-hours

In Thailand an infected Chinese national was treated with a cocktail of antivirals. One of them is oseltamivir which is used to treat the flu, and the other two are anti HIV drugs. She made a very rapid recovery, but it could be coincidental. What is promising is that this is a 71 year old, and if you look at the demographic of deaths, its been predominantly older people rather than younger ones.

[mr friendly guy]

S I decided to do a bit of digging.

You know what, since TRR says he is not an engineer, lets ask a real engineer what they think. Fortunately Quartz did

https://qz.com/1792705/coronavirus-the- ... hospitals/

Using prefabricated units is the key to expediting Wuhan’s hospitals. Fully-assembled, factory-made rooms are trucked on site and dropped into place.

This building technique is completely safe, assures Thorsten Helbig, a structural engineer and co-founder of the German engineering firm Knippers Helbig who currently teaches at the Cooper Union in New York City. “You can definitely make pre-fab buildings structurally sound,” he says.

He explains that because units are assembled under the controlled environment of a factory, designers and builders can troubleshoot any problems and make sure all the modular blocks work together before they’re even brought in. Traditional building, on the other hand, is reliant on weather conditions and the choreography of various contractors who work on different aspects of a project. Today, hotel chains from Citizen M and Marriott to KPMG’s newly opened corporate retreat in Florida incorporate pre-fab parts in their build-out plan

Using pre fab parts make it faster, say it ain't so. But I guess so does cutting corners, so how safe is it.

Helbig, who has worked on several major infrastructure projects in China including Shenzhen Bao’an airport and a Disney resort in Shanghai, says that he found that safety is a priority in China. “They don’t do the crazy things anymore. They evaluate more thoroughly. I feel like that there’s been a shift in attitude over the last 10 to 15 years,” says Helbig. Their long-standing obsession with engineering and architecture has made the Chinese superior builders, he suggests. In 2016, they completed 84 skyscrapers (towers 650 ft and higher) compared to only seven in the US, for instance. Hunan’s Mini Sky City, a 57-story skyscraper, was built in 19 days.

What's the catch? I am sure the Chinese must be doing something wrong here, and anyone who points out this accusation is a racist stereotype of Chinese shoddy work is just a supporter of a dictatorship. Yeah.

But as fast and safe buildings rise in China, they’re not necessarily always sustainable. “They [the hospitals] meet the standards when it comes to structural integrity, but perhaps not in energy consumption,” Helbig explains. “I can’t imagine that these are the most optimized buildings.” Beijing’s Xiaotangshan Hospital was “quietly abandoned” after the SARS epidemic was contained, as BBC reports. Because it’s hard to adapt such a specialized facility for any other use, it makes the sprawling hospitals largely useless post-emergency.

Oh, that's all. A short term building is only for the short term because its not energy efficient. Mind blown here.

[The Romulan Republic]

Yes, but you're using a racist stereotype regardless. Do you deny there is a racist stereotype against Chinese goods being poor quality from cutting corners despite the fact that a lot of their goods are actually high quality?

No doubt there is that narrative, and it can colour peoples' perceptions. I can also see how my comments could be taken in that light, though that was not my intention, I was not making any claim about the quality of Chinese-made products in general, and I think you know that. But I also don't think it follows that any and all criticism of a Chinese product or action is automatically racist.

If I thought that you had honestly taken my comment as racist, I would apologize and that's that. But I don't think you're arguing in good faith when you accuse me of racism, because...

The racist stereotype against Chinese goods isn't confined to government state own enterprises genius. Who are you kidding? Oh wait, another one of these leftist who are racist and then cover it up by saying I am not against Chinese people, just their government? Yeah, maybe you've black friends too huh?

So to be clear, your position is that any criticism of China's government is actually a racist attack on the Chinese people, and any argument to the contrary is just an attempt to "cover up" said racism?

Well, I guess I better pledge undying loyalty to the Chinese government, so I'm not being racist.

And again, this is a thread derail. I don't want it to continue, I don't want to be banned for it, and I'd rather it ended here. But I don't think its reasonable to expect me to just sit in silence while you repeatedly call me a racist. If that's what you think, report me for violating the board's rules against racism, and let the mods decide. Otherwise, please drop it.

[mr friendly guy]

So to be clear, your position is that any criticism of China's government is actually a racist attack on the Chinese people, and any argument to the contrary is just an attempt to "cover up" said racism?

My position is you used a racist stereotype (whether its malicious or ignorant, only you truly know), and anytime someone points it out, you just go stop apologising for the Chinese dictatorship, to cover it up. Its very obvious when literally no one in this thread has attributed the speed of Chinese construction time to their government structure, so you're trying to bring up their government as a red herring when called out for using this racist stereotype. Its obvious when this racist stereotype is applied to all Chinese enterprises, but public and private, so saying TRR is only going to apply it to government construction quality, is at best very poor choice of words. Its even more funnier when you admit that you have no evidence they are cutting corners.

Well, I guess I better pledge undying loyalty to the Chinese government, so I'm not being racist.

Remember people, Liberals can't be racist. No sirree.

[The Romulan Republic]

I meant what I said: my criticisms were intended to be directed against the government, not the nation, people, or culture. You may not believe that distinction exists (or you may pretend that it does not), but I do. That said, as I already acknowledged, my choice of words was poor, and I can see in hindsight how it could be seen as racist, and because those are not sentiments that I would ever wish to give credence to, I unreservedly retract and apologize for the use of the term "cutting corners" without proof that such took place.

To return to my original point, I am genuinely impressed by the Chinese government's response in this case, which far exceeds the effectiveness I would expect from most other world governments.

[mr friendly guy]

For those that are interested, there are sites to track what's happening with the numbers of infected.

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps ... 7b48e9ecf6
John Hopkins in English, and it divides by country infected. Unfortunately it doesn't have a handy statistic for to indicate the change by day.

https://ncov.dxy.cn/ncovh5/view/pneumon ... ame=iossmf
This one in Chinese, but it does show you the changes in statistics.
The first number is infected, second is suspected, third is serious condition, fourth number is deaths and fifth number is recovered. Notice that the increase in recovered in the last day is 267, which is more than half of the number that has died in total (492) as of typing.

[madd0ct0r]

So to be clear, your position is that any criticism of China's government is actually a racist attack on the Chinese people, and any argument to the contrary is just an attempt to "cover up" said racism?

My position is you used a racist stereotype (whether its malicious or ignorant, only you truly know), and anytime someone points it out, you just go stop apologising for the Chinese dictatorship, to cover it up. Its very obvious when literally no one in this thread has attributed the speed of Chinese construction time to their government structure, so you're trying to bring up their government as a red herring when called out for using this racist stereotype. Its obvious when this racist stereotype is applied to all Chinese enterprises, but public and private, so saying TRR is only going to apply it to government construction quality, is at best very poor choice of words. Its even more funnier when you admit that you have no evidence they are cutting corners.

Well, I guess I better pledge undying loyalty to the Chinese government, so I'm not being racist.

Remember people, Liberals can't be racist. No sirree.

Of for fucjs sake TRR. You overreached on a topic you don't know much about (civil engineering) and did so with a classic racist sterotype. (One that dates back to "you lie like cheap Japanese watch!").

You didn't mean to, you are aware of the connection now and you are unlikely to do if again. Just apologize and move on.

[mr friendly guy]

He did apologise, and I have moved on, hence my next post after his apology was focused on the news more specific to the corona virus.

[mr friendly guy]

The second hospital is now completed. Wuhan is also converting 11 other venues with a combined total of 10,000 beds for those with minor symptoms. Its going to be some triaging to get those sicker ones to the hospital and the less sick ones to these places because it looks like a a bunch of beds. Presumably masks will be aplenty to stop the spread.

The death rate is much lower outside of Wuhan. This isn't surprising when you consider the local health services are overwhelmed there, so some patient's in serious condition may not get the care they need. Once these places are running for a few days, hopefully the fatality rate starts dropping as well.

[aerius]

Infections are starting to go exponential again which is not good. Also seeing reports that the virus can be transmitted through fecal matter, if true, we better hope it doesn't get into India & southeast Asia. Considering the general sanitation practices and lack of infrastructure in those areas, a fecal born virus is going to spread like wildfire if it gets going.

[mr friendly guy]

How do you figure infections are going exponential? The graph from John Hopkins dated Feb 6 doesn't look like it.

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps ... 7b48e9ecf6

[aerius]

Hadn't seen the last data point when I posted. Curve looked to be going back up after flattening out on Feb 1st, but latest point looks like it's continuing the linear trend.

[Steel]

I wouldn't read too much in to the graph of total reported cases. Even if you get past the detection and reporting issues, the overall epidemic is made up of a bunch of smaller localised outbreaks (individual outbreaks initially growing exponentially) that were all started at different times. The shape of the total curve will basically look like the biggest outbreak, and if that one comes under control the overall numbers can start to look great... until one of the smaller ones catches up and overtakes it in a few days.

While the graph being exponential is certainly a bad thing, and when the outbreak ends it will flatten off, seeing the graph pull away from a particular exponential trend for a day or two doesn't tell us anything significant about the overall epidemic.