Canadian police arrest activists at Wet’suwet’en anti-pipeline camp

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Re: Canadian police arrest activists at Wet’suwet’en anti-pipeline camp

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Solauren wrote: 2020-02-16 05:35pm
loomer wrote: 2020-02-15 11:11pm
Solauren wrote: 2020-02-15 11:04pm As long as the protestors are peaceful, and it's not screwing with non-essential supplies, I'm in favor of letting them protest for a bit.

However, if they're anti-pipeline, wouldn't they be better off, oh, blocking the pipeline itself? Disrupting train lines, while a good way to get attention, isn't going to win them any public relations points in the long term.
They are blocking the pipeline route. The point of the rail blockade is to force the government's hand to avoid the blockade of the pipeline itself being ignored. Also, it's weird how many people seem to think the PR blowback will be against the blockaders on this when the only reason train service has been disrupted is a failure of the Canadian government's domestic-international relations policies.
Problem is, when it comes to the general public, they generally support protests against 'The Man', until it begins to disrupt their lives in anyway. At that point, the Protestors become at fault, with 'The Man' getting negative PR for not having already dealt with them.
"I've got mine, fuck everyone else."

Its pretty much the core idea underlying all conservative thought.
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Re: Canadian police arrest activists at Wet’suwet’en anti-pipeline camp

Post by loomer »

Solauren wrote: 2020-02-16 05:35pm
loomer wrote: 2020-02-15 11:11pm
Solauren wrote: 2020-02-15 11:04pm As long as the protestors are peaceful, and it's not screwing with non-essential supplies, I'm in favor of letting them protest for a bit.

However, if they're anti-pipeline, wouldn't they be better off, oh, blocking the pipeline itself? Disrupting train lines, while a good way to get attention, isn't going to win them any public relations points in the long term.
They are blocking the pipeline route. The point of the rail blockade is to force the government's hand to avoid the blockade of the pipeline itself being ignored. Also, it's weird how many people seem to think the PR blowback will be against the blockaders on this when the only reason train service has been disrupted is a failure of the Canadian government's domestic-international relations policies.
Problem is, when it comes to the general public, they generally support protests against 'The Man', until it begins to disrupt their lives in anyway. At that point, the Protestors become at fault, with 'The Man' getting negative PR for not having already dealt with them.
That's how it begins, but protests that impact the daily lives of people are among the most effective tools for changing public opinion.
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Re: Canadian police arrest activists at Wet’suwet’en anti-pipeline camp

Post by Solauren »

The Romulan Republic wrote: 2020-02-16 09:02pm
Solauren wrote: 2020-02-16 05:35pm
loomer wrote: 2020-02-15 11:11pm

They are blocking the pipeline route. The point of the rail blockade is to force the government's hand to avoid the blockade of the pipeline itself being ignored. Also, it's weird how many people seem to think the PR blowback will be against the blockaders on this when the only reason train service has been disrupted is a failure of the Canadian government's domestic-international relations policies.
Problem is, when it comes to the general public, they generally support protests against 'The Man', until it begins to disrupt their lives in anyway. At that point, the Protestors become at fault, with 'The Man' getting negative PR for not having already dealt with them.
"I've got mine, fuck everyone else."

Its pretty much the core idea underlying all conservative thought.
Actually, that's the underlying drive of most (not all, but most) people, conservative or not. Humans are inherently self-interested. It is the truly rare, and exceptional person that is not like this.
I've been asked why I still follow a few of the people I know on Facebook with 'interesting political habits and view points'.

It's so when they comment on or approve of something, I know what pages to block/what not to vote for.
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Re: Canadian police arrest activists at Wet’suwet’en anti-pipeline camp

Post by loomer »

Solauren wrote: 2020-02-16 10:23pm
The Romulan Republic wrote: 2020-02-16 09:02pm
Solauren wrote: 2020-02-16 05:35pm

Problem is, when it comes to the general public, they generally support protests against 'The Man', until it begins to disrupt their lives in anyway. At that point, the Protestors become at fault, with 'The Man' getting negative PR for not having already dealt with them.
"I've got mine, fuck everyone else."

Its pretty much the core idea underlying all conservative thought.
Actually, that's the underlying drive of most (not all, but most) people, conservative or not. Humans are inherently self-interested. It is the truly rare, and exceptional person that is not like this.
Most people, however, are able to recognize that their self-interest is served through community interests and not pure individualism. Altruism and cooperation are powerful drives for precisely that reason.
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Re: Canadian police arrest activists at Wet’suwet’en anti-pipeline camp

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And for the five percent or so who can't get that... well, we call them "sociopaths".
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Re: Canadian police arrest activists at Wet’suwet’en anti-pipeline camp

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Sore Loser Scheer is out trying to play Hard Man Making Hard Choices While Hard. Trudeau did not invite him to a meeting on the crisis.

https://huffingtonpost.ca/entry/andrew- ... 8e95b45f89
OTTAWA — Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer was denounced by other party leaders Tuesday for giving a speech that, according to the NDP, amounted to “absolute racism” in response to the government’s handling of the continued Wet’suwet’en crisis.

For 12 days, the federal government has struggled to deal with mounting protests in support of the Wet’suwet’en hereditary chiefs opposed to the Coastal GasLink project crossing their traditional territory. The pipeline is located entirely in British Columbia and all the elected band councils on the pipeline route support the project.

Demonstrations have occurred across the country, including near Belleville, Ont., where the Tyendinaga Mohawks set up camp near the rail line, forcing CN to cut freight train traffic to Eastern Canada and Via Rail to suspend service. The disruption has affected tens of thousands of passengers and there are mounting concerns over potential shortages of propane, medical supplies, and food to eastern provinces as cargo remains stuck on ships waiting to anchor in the port of Vancouver.

The Ontario Provincial Police has so far refused to enforce a court injunction, saying it is up to politicians and protesters to find a solution. Talks over the weekend between the Tyendinaga Mohawks and Indigenous Services Minister Marc Miller resulted in no clear action. Crown-Indigenous Relations Minister Carolyn Bennett told reporters she is hoping to have a meeting with the Wet’suwet’en hereditary chiefs in the community as soon as possible.

Tuesday, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau took the unusual step of speaking to Canadians about the crisis. He urged patience and called for “peaceful, honest dialogue” with willing Indigenous partners.

“To the Wet’suwet’en and Mohawk nations, and Indigenous leaders across the country, we are listening,” he said. “We are not asking that they stop standing up for their communities, rights, and for what they believe; we only ask that they be willing to work with the federal government as partners in finding solutions,” he said.

“There are those who would want us to act in haste, who want us to boil this down to slogans and ignore the complexities, who think that using force is helpful,” the prime minister added. “It is not. Patience may be in short supply and that makes it more valuable than ever.”

Scheer responded by calling Trudeau’s “word salad” speech the “weakest response to a national crisis in Canadian history” and one that lacked a “clear denunciation” of the illegal actions of “radical activists.” He noted the lack of an action plan to put the Canadian economy back on track and called for the government to “enforce the rule of law.”

The Liberal government, Scheer said, is letting “a few loud voices” shut down development and prosperity for all.

“Standing between our country and prosperity is a small group of radical activists, many of whom have little to no connection to First Nations communities, a bunch of radical activists who won’t rest till our oil and gas industry is entirely shut down,” he said. “[T]hey are appropriating an Indigenous agenda which they are willfully misrepresenting.”

NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh said that Scheer had belittled First Nations by calling them names and was sowing division by suggesting he knows “who is a real community leader and who is not.”

“What he said was so divisive that it rises to the level of racism,” Singh told reporters.

What Scheer demonstrated in the House, the NDP leader added, was that he has no interest in working towards a solution that brings people together. “He showed that he has only the intention of speaking to a small group of people and heightening tensions and flaming divisions. All of the things that we don’t want to see in Canada.”

After his address, Trudeau held a special meeting with Singh, Bloc Québécois Leader Yves-François Blanchet, and Green Party parliamentary leader Elizabeth May. Trudeau excluded Scheer from the talks, despite noting in his speech that populism is resulting in people only listening “to themselves and to people who agree with them, and not to people of another perspective.”

The prime minister said: “Mr. Scheer disqualified himself from constructive discussion with his unacceptable speech earlier today.”

Quebec Conservative MP Gerard Detell said Trudeau had a particular vision of democracy if he was only choosing to meet with leaders who agree with him.

“We are the official Opposition. Do I need to remind the prime minister that we received more votes than him?”

In question period, Scheer’s temper flared.

“Dialogue is not going to pay the bills for people who are facing layoffs because of people breaking the law who have no connection to the Wet’suwet’en First Nation,” he said.

Trudeau responded that the government is engaged in actions that will lead to a “long-term resolution,” though he did not provide details about those activities.

He took a swipe at the Conservatives for continually pressing the public safety minister to order the RCMP to enforce injunctions and clear railway and pipeline construction blockades, saying those are examples of “short-term, forceful actions” that won’t work.

After question period, Scheer called the prime minister’s meeting with the other parliamentary leaders “a distraction.”

“I believe this meeting was called after the prime minister’s comm[unication]s team realized what a disastrous speech he gave in the House of Commons,” he said. “That was weak, weak, weak, weak.”

Scheer accused Trudeau of legitimizing “illegal protests” and not acknowledging the Wet’suwet’en people who support the project. “That is the real story today,” he said.

Joseph Norton, the grand chief of the Mohawk Council of Kahnawake, said “it’s easy,” for the Crown to send the military, the Ontario Provincial Police, the RCMP or the Sûreté du Québec to do its “bidding.”

But “warmongers” should note the history of Oka — where a police officer was killed in 1990 — and Ipperwash — where an Indigenous protester was killed in 1995— as a reminder “that we should use restraint,” he said. “Nobody wants to see that again.”

Mohawk Council of Kanesatake Grand Chief Serge Otsi Simon said for Scheer and “those right-wing politicians” to come out and propose “that kind of solution” only serves their partisan interests.

With a “hard line,” Scheer “brings up the worst possible scenario,” Simon said. If the protesters lift the blockades under those kinds of threats, it will look as if they are doing it out of fear. But if they choose to show they’re not afraid, it “leads to an escalation — which will lead to what Mr. Scheer actually wants,” he said. “I’m sure that he, and his Conservatives, would love to send in the army to prove some kind of parliamentary supremacy over First Nations people.”

Simon suggested the railway blockades should come down as a show of compassion — something for which he received backlash in his own community.

Mohawks in Kanehsatake are barricading the council office, they say they want Grand Chief Serge Simon out. More to come later on @APTNNews photos: Jeff Dorn pic.twitter.com/tbBtjPDSU6

— Tom Fennario (@tfennario) February 18, 2020
“These guys are brave for what they did. They’ve proven it,” he said, of the protesters. But, he also expressed concern First Nations action could poison goodwill with Canadian society and set back reconciliation efforts.

“Don’t let Mr. Scheer make you think that if you exercise compassion and take those blockades down, you’re ….doing this out of fear. You’ve proven that you’re not scared,” he said.
Its a damn good thing Scheer lost the election. We'd probably have bodies in the street by now, if he were in charge. I'm having that feeling again, the one I got just after Trudeau beat Islamophobe Harper, and then right after the election, there was a major jihadist terrorist attack in Europe, followed by a wave of Islamophobia and refugee bans in the US. That feeling of having just dodged a bullet.

This bit is particularly disturbing as well:
Joseph Norton, the grand chief of the Mohawk Council of Kahnawake, said “it’s easy,” for the Crown to send the military, the Ontario Provincial Police, the RCMP or the Sûreté du Québec to do its “bidding.”

But “warmongers” should note the history of Oka — where a police officer was killed in 1990 — and Ipperwash — where an Indigenous protester was killed in 1995— as a reminder “that we should use restraint,” he said. “Nobody wants to see that again.”
He's right, of course, that a heavy-handed crackdown could cause loss of life, and should be avoided. But its alarming, to say the least, to see an activist leader framing this in terms of a war. It makes me wonder just how bad this is going to get, even with Trudeau holding back from the kind of response Scheer and his ilk want.

Edit: Why do Huffington Post links keep giving me "not secure connection" warnings? :?
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Re: Canadian police arrest activists at Wet’suwet’en anti-pipeline camp

Post by Coop D'etat »

This whole affair has brought out the Canadian political and pundit set's favourite passtime, pretend or real ignorance about how the government works, which jurisdiction has which powers and who takes orders concerning what from who. The Federal NDP are being particularly egregious about this (Singh has made a career about grandstanding that if he was Prime Minister he'd do things the Prime Minister doesn't actually have the powers to do) although the CPC aren't far behind.
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Re: Canadian police arrest activists at Wet’suwet’en anti-pipeline camp

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A win for the chiefs- the RCMP has offered to withdraw from their territory before the negotiations begin:

https://cbc.ca/news/politics/rcmp-withdraw-bc-1.5469669
Public Safety Minister Bill Blair is applauding the British Columbia RCMP 's offer to leave Wet'suwet'en territory as talks continue to try and defuse the Indigenous-led rail blockades crippling the country's rail network.

"They are changing their profile on the property," he said ahead of a Thursday morning cabinet meeting. "I think the RCMP have made a very sound operational decision based on the current circumstances."

CBC has obtained a copy of a letter from Deputy Commissioner Jennifer Strachan to the hereditary chiefs, first reported on by Global News, offering to move the RCMP's temporary detachment from near the protest site to the nearby town of Houston — as long as Morice West Forest Service Road remains clear. The RCMP confirmed that letter was sent.

"As always, we encourage dialogue over enforcement with a goal of a long-term solution," Strachan wrote, while asking for a meeting "in the near future."

Crown-Indigenous Relations Minister Carolyn Bennett has offered to meet with the Wet'suwet'en hereditary chiefs to help resolve the dispute over the $6-billion Coastal GasLink pipeline project and to de-escalate tensions that have led to rail blockades in several parts of the country.

But the hereditary chiefs have said they won't meet with the federal and provincial ministers until the RCMP leave their territory.

Blair said he hopes the RCMP's offer will meet the chiefs' conditions.

"We have met the condition that those who were on the barricades had said was important to them before they would change their posture," he said.

"It is moving toward a less confrontational and a more peaceable arrangement entirely appropriate to the circumstances, and I'm very hopeful that that will satisfy the concerns that were raised."

"We've obtained the injunction and are hoping for a swift resolution of this incident so that passenger commuter rail service can resume," it said in a statement.

Quebec Premier François Legault told reporters earlier Thursday that "once the injunction is granted, we will dismantle the blockade."
In fairness, it should be noted that there is some legitimate difference of opinion on the issue even within the Wet-suwet'en Nation:

https://cbc.ca/news/business/wet-suwet- ... -1.5469401
Another day of blockades across the country means more protesters with signs bearing slogans such as "Wet'suwet'en Strong" and "Stand with Wet'suwet'en."

They're showing support for the heredity chiefs who oppose construction of a new pipeline through their territory in northern B.C.

The protesters though are drawing the ire of many in the Wet'suwet'en Nation who not only support the project, but see it as a way for the community to flourish.

The Coastal GasLink pipeline would move natural gas from northeastern B.C. to the West Coast for export, while creating jobs and other financial benefits.

It's why 20 elected First Nations signed their support of the project. Calgary-based TC Energy is developing the $6-billion pipeline.

Overall, the Wet'suwet'en Nation is divided over whether to support a new natural gas pipeline through its territory.

A group of hereditary chiefs touched off the national protest by opposing the project, saying it violated their recognized rights over the territory.

But on Wednesday, about 200 people gave up three hours of their afternoon to pack a movie theatre in the community of Houston, a town of about 3,000 people in northwestern B.C., in the heart of the Wet'suwet'en Nation.

This was a pro-pipeline event as members of the Wet'suwet'en Nation explained why they support construction of the Coastal GasLink pipeline.

The people who came out to the meeting say they want to see the natural gas pipeline built. They say the project will create well-paid jobs that will bring economic opportunities to their communities.

Among the supporters was Robert Skin, who said he was elected to the council of the Skin Tyee First Nation, which is part of the Wet'suwet'en Nation, to move the community forward.

He said the pipeline will mean a better life for the next generation.

"With the benefit agreement that [the Skin Tyee] did sign, I see us being in a better place even within the next five years," Skin said.

Speaking to the crowd at the theatre, he said protesters "only get one side of the story" and don't understand the advantages this type of infrastructure project can provide.

Similar sentiments were shared by others who want to see more people working and providing for their families, especially as the lumber industry struggles in the region.

The Wet'suwet'en people at the event said they resent the protests because they aren't helping their community, which they say already has fractured governance. They say the protests have amplified the conflict in the community and distracted Wet'suwet'en people from resolving their differences.

Others said they want the First Nation to be part of Canada, not separated from it.

The nearby Witset First Nation, which is also part of the Wet'suwet'en Nation, is split almost evenly between those who want the pipeline to be built and those who resist it, according to Edward Tom, a community liaison and monitor of construction projects.

Financial boost
Tom sees the project as improving the community's quality of life. When discussing the protesters, he grew agitated, describing them as liars who are causing more harm than good.

"They're very pugnacious and overbearing. They're professional protesters," Tom said.

Many who attended the meeting said the protesters across the country don't understand the issue, and don't realize many of the Wet'sewet'en want the project to be built.

Those who have spoken up about their reasons for backing the pipeline say they have faced intimidation and threats by other community members.

That's why the event was the first time Marion Tiljoe Shepherd has shared her feelings. She owns her own trucking company in Houston. She's optimistic the project will be built and the economic benefits will provide a financial boost to her business and many others in the area.

Shepherd said she's increasingly angered by the protesters across the country. She said they don't speak for, nor represent her community.

"It's none of their business," she said in an interview following the event. "All of these protesters don't have the right to close down railways and ships. It's not right. Go away. I want them to leave."

The pipeline dispute is also splitting families, with some supporting the project and others opposing it.

"It's divided my family. It's just so sad," Shepherd said. Her father's cousin is a hereditary chief. At the Houston meeting Wednesday, he spoke in favour of the pipeline.

On Thursday, four Wet'suwet'en hereditary chiefs are scheduled to travel east to meet and thank the Mohawks of Tyendinaga behind a rail blockade in Ontario. The trip has raised doubts about when proposed talks with federal and provincial leaders could occur to settle the rail crisis.

Currently, those chiefs are refusing to negotiate until RCMP leave the area.

"The chiefs don't feel that we can possibly have any meaningful dialogue with any levels of government while there is still a huge RCMP force on our territories," Molly Wickham, a spokesperson for one of the Wet'suwet'en Nation clans.

On Wednesday, Carolyn Bennett said in an open letter that she and her B.C. counterpart, Scott Fraser, will be available in northern B.C. as early as Thursday to meet with any of the hereditary chiefs who might be willing to talk.

Some provincial premiers are demanding the blockades come to an end either by peaceful resolution or police action.
Of course, this is nothing like a survey of the entire population, so I make no claims as to where the majority stands on the issue. Nor, for that matter, would I entirely trust the CBC to be an unbiased source on it. And in this case, I'd be inclined to side with the chiefs (despite my feelings on the concept of hereditary rulers in general) because of the generally peaceful yet effective nature of the protests, the heavy-handed RCMP response, and above all the fact that the construction of the pipeline will add to the global climate crisis which is an existential threat to the entire planetary ecosystem.

But I do think that the diversity of opinion and interests within the Wet'suwet'en should be recognized, rather than treating the whole nation as homogenous.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

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Re: Canadian police arrest activists at Wet’suwet’en anti-pipeline camp

Post by loomer »

I take every pro-CGL statement with a significant grain of salt because the benefits agreements the CGL have been pushing include strict non-disparagement clauses. Members of the communities involved aren't allowed to speak negatively of the project without risking ceding the meager share of profits they've been promised.
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Re: Canadian police arrest activists at Wet’suwet’en anti-pipeline camp

Post by The Romulan Republic »

loomer wrote: 2020-02-20 10:10pm I take every pro-CGL statement with a significant grain of salt because the benefits agreements the CGL have been pushing include strict non-disparagement clauses. Members of the communities involved aren't allowed to speak negatively of the project without risking ceding the meager share of profits they've been promised.
Capitalism: Ain't it grand? :evil:
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

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Re: Canadian police arrest activists at Wet’suwet’en anti-pipeline camp

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Conservative leadership candidate MacKay promotes vigilantism against pipeline protesters:

https://cbc.ca/news/politics/mackay-bac ... -1.5470209
Conservative leadership hopeful Peter MacKay is facing blowback after posting — then deleting — a tweet that expressed support for counter-protesters who dismantled a barricade erected by supporters of the Wet'suwet'en hereditary chiefs near Edmonton on Wednesday.

"Glad to see a couple Albertans with a pickup truck can do more for our economy in an afternoon than Justin Trudeau could do in four years," the tweet read.

The tweet was a reference to Wednesday's confrontation between a group of counter-protesters and some anti-pipeline demonstrators who had set up a blockade on CN's main rail line in the western part of the provincial capital.

After a provincial court granted an injunction against the protesters, the counter-protesters removed material that was blocking the railway and dismantled a wooden makeshift barrier the anti-pipeline activists had built.


In this tweet sent from Peter MacKay's account, the Conservative leadership candidate appears to applaud the efforts of counter-demonstrators to dismantle a blockade of train tracks in Edmonton. (Peter MacKay/Twitter)
Critics denounce vigilantism
Critics quickly denounced the tweet as inappropriate because they said it appeared the former justice minister was promoting vigilantism.

Sean Carleton, a historian at the Mount Royal University in Calgary, said it's dangerous for politicians in positions of influence to support people taking the law into their own hands.

"I think it kind of legitimizes this more vigilante approach," said Carleton. "I would hate for those kind of comments to embolden the wrong kind of people trying to take this into their own hands and risk making things worse ..."

B.C. RCMP say they'll leave outpost on Wet'suwet'en territory if road is kept clear
Court grants CN injunction against rail blockade in west Edmonton
MacKay's tweet on the rail blockade was eventually deleted and replaced with a new, three-part message.

"I see this as an act of good citizenship. The peaceful removal of debris deliberately placed on a railway that posed a threat to public safety," reads one of the new tweets.

"I stand with the workers, producers and suppliers who work hard, obey the law, care for their neighbors and keep Canada the best place in the world to live."

Hours after that thread hit MacKay's Twitter feed, he tweeted out a statement denouncing both the protests and those engaged in the "peaceful removal of debris" from railways.

"Illegal blockades and vigilante reactions by those frustrated by the Prime Minister's inaction are dangerous," MacKay wrote. "We need leadership, not platitudes, to resolve this crisis."

MacKay went on to say that when he is prime minister, "progress will not be accomplished with professional protesters shutting down the Canadian economy and harming innocent people who are trying to make ends meet."


Second social media controversy
The social media dustup isn't the first time MacKay's leadership campaign team has run into trouble on social media.

On Feb. 3, MacKay backtracked on a tweet attacking Prime Minister Justin Trudeau for expensing $876.95 in yoga sessions and spa bills while running for the leadership of the Liberal Party.

MacKay, who has said he wants his campaign to maintain a civilized tone, said he was unhappy with the personal nature of the tweet and made that known to his team, although he refused to take it down.

The MacKay campaign addressed the rail blockade tweets in a fundraising email sent out on Thursday that repeated the message from the now-deleted tweet.

In a statement released on Thursday, MacKay called for a swift end to the rail blockades.

"The prime minister has left Canadians feeling like the government has lost control and is paralyzed in its inability to act," said MacKay. "Nobody is above the law. The prime minister and the police need to do their job, and that is restoring peace and order. Leadership is, after all, about making hard decisions and taking decisive action."

Peter MacKay 'not happy' with tweet needling Trudeau over yoga expenses
Premiers tell Trudeau 'patience is wearing thin' with Indigenous-led blockades
Tough words from the candidates
Other Conservative leadership candidates have taken a hard line on the blockades.

Erin O'Toole, MP for Durham, told the National Post that he would criminalize the act of blocking critical infrastructure, including railways, and give police the power to clear protesters without an injunction.

Marilyn Gladu, MP for Sarnia—Lambton, told a local newspaper that the federal government should call in the military to enforce court injunctions if "the RCMP can't handle it." Those comments provoked a similar backlash.


Carleton warned against resorting to force to end the blockades.

"These macho calls for aggression and kind of a might-is-right approach ... we've seen that, even just in the last 30 years in Indigenous-settler relations, [they can] go very sideways," he said.

When asked about the Edmonton incident during a press conference on Parliament Hill today, Public Safety Minister Bill Blair said the situation should be resolved by peaceful means.

"I always advocate for adherence to the rule of law and peaceful resolution of these disputes and we'll continue to support that," Blair said.
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Re: Canadian police arrest activists at Wet’suwet’en anti-pipeline camp

Post by Eulogy »

It's kind of funny. They make these statements hoping to score points with the rest of the people, and the only ones who'd approve of what he's saying are the sort who you'd never want anywhere near the protesters. Meanwhile, the rest are varying degrees of alienated.
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Re: Canadian police arrest activists at Wet’suwet’en anti-pipeline camp

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Eulogy wrote: 2020-02-21 02:07am It's kind of funny. They make these statements hoping to score points with the rest of the people, and the only ones who'd approve of what he's saying are the sort who you'd never want anywhere near the protesters. Meanwhile, the rest are varying degrees of alienated.
I disagree that rest are alienated. There will be a big chunk of people feeling like their lives are not theirs to control, that things are worse than they need be and that someone else is to blame. Then they are pointed at someone, some one clearly and simply defined as other who it seems is making their lives even more unpredictable, and they go 'ah hah! That's the simple problem. That's something to solve to get my life on track. I'm not going to drive across Canada but I'll remember this, complain about it to others to feel solidarity (hah) and I'll definitely vote for someone promising simple solutions. It's just common sense right?
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Re: Canadian police arrest activists at Wet’suwet’en anti-pipeline camp

Post by The Romulan Republic »

https://cbc.ca/news/politics/tyendinaga ... -1.5473346
Ontario Provincial Police and CN Rail have told the Mohawks they have to clear their camps in Tyendinaga, Ont., by midnight ET tonight or they will face a police investigation and charges, Tyendinaga Mohawk Kanenhariyo Seth Lefort tells CBC News.

CN Rail would not confirm that a deadline had been set, and referred inquiries to the OPP.

The OPP have not yet responded to inquiries by CBC News.

An ongoing demonstration by Mohawks from Tyendinaga who have set up two camps along CN rail lines has shut down passenger and freight train traffic.

The demonstrations were launched Feb. 6, in support of Wet'suwet'en hereditary chiefs and camps built to stop construction of the $6 billion Coastal GasLink pipeline in B.C. The Wet'suwet'en hereditary chiefs are opposed to the natural gas pipeline because it would be constructed through their territory.

The Mohawks of Tyendinaga have said they would remain by the railway until the RCMP withdrew from Wet'suwet'en territory.

Earlier this month, B.C. RCMP enforced an injunction against those preventing contractors from accessing the area for construction.

RCMP in British Columbia moved its officers out of an outpost on Wet'suwet'en territory to a nearby detachment on Friday, but won't stop patrolling the area — a move that partially addresses a demand set by the nation's hereditary chiefs late last week.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau on Friday said that barricades on rail lines and other major transportation routes must come down after two weeks of calls for patience and stalled attempts at negotiation.

Indigenous Services Minister Marc Miller met with the Tyendinaga Mohawks on Feb. 15 and asked them to temporarily halt the demonstrations, according to recordings of the closed-door meeting leaked to CBC News.

But a phone call from a Wet'suwet'en hereditary chief specifying that the RCMP were still on their territory undercut that request, according to the recording.
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Re: Canadian police arrest activists at Wet’suwet’en anti-pipeline camp

Post by The Romulan Republic »

A planned meeting between the chiefs, the Federal government, and BC provincial government has been cancelled:

https://cbc.ca/news/canada/british-colu ... -1.5477676
A proposed meeting between the Wet'suwet'en hereditary chiefs, the federal government and the B.C. government has fallen through.

A short statement issued Wednesday afternoon from the office of the Wet'suwet'en said both governments had "abruptly declined" an invitation from the chiefs, whose opposition to a pipeline through their traditional territory in northwest B.C. has sparked protests and rail blockades across the country.

The office of the B.C. Premier John Horgan confirmed in a statement the province has "not been able to come to agreement for a meeting."

It was not immediately clear when the invitation was extended, who was invited from the federal government, or why the meeting did not come together.
Meanwhile, the worthless racist cum bucket running Quebec falsely claimed protesters were armed with AK-47s.

https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/mohawks-bla ... -1.4828838
MONTREAL -- Quebec Premier Francois Legault says the presence of dangerous assault rifles in Kahnawake is a reason for caution in enforcing an injunction to end a rail blockade in the Mohawk community.

Legault told reporters in Quebec City the government has information from what he called "good sources" that there are AK-47s in Kahnawake.

He says Warriors on the reserve are armed, and the situation is very delicate.

Related Stories
Kahnawake blockade: Commuter train agency Exo says it's losing $35,000 to $45,000 every weekday
CP obtains injunction to end Kahnawake rail blockade as new protest pops up in Sherbrooke
The premier says he will leave it to the provincial police to develop a strategy to officially serve the injunction issued Tuesday to people at the blockade.

Legault says he is disclosing the information because he wants the public to understand why provincial police have not yet moved in. He says he does not want to have it on his conscience that police officers were injured in an intervention.

In response, the Kahnawake Longhouse issued a statement calling Legault's comments dangerous and inflammatory. "These accusations are absolutely and totally false," the statement read, declaring that the land defenders at the site of the rail blockade were unarmed.

The Mohawk Council also expressed their "extreme concern" over Legault's comments. "The premier needs to be far more careful in his actions," Ietsénhaienhs Kahsennenhawe Sky-Deer said in a statement. “Once certain statements are made, they often can’t be taken back. Using terms like 'armed' and 'AK-47’s' is extremely inflammatory and, in fact, dangerous. It could be interpreted as an intent to incite a response.”

Former SQ deputy director Marcel Savard told CTV News that he suspects Legault made the comments to explain why the SQ had yet to move in on the barricade. "Personally, this is not the kind of information I would pass directly to the media," he said. "Maybe it's a fact that there are weapons there -- AK-47 weapons. Maybe it's a known fact, but does it serve the solution of the conflict to have this in the media?"

Public figures weighed in on Legault's comments, many suggesting that he should weigh his words more carefully. "Premier Legault is making very dangerous and offensive comments by suggesting the presence of weapons in Kahnawake," said Assembly of First Nations of Quebec and Labrador Chief Ghislain Picard in a statement. "He certainly did not consider the consequences of his words for community members who live with the memories of thirty years ago on a daily basis."

The rail blockade on the Kahnawake Mohawk territory south of Montreal was reinforced with concrete barriers and loads of rock earlier Wednesday.

The actions come after CP Rail was granted an injunction on Tuesday to end the blockade that began Feb. 8.

The secretary of the Mohawk Nation at Kahnawake, Kenneth Deer, says the protesters do not intend to end the barricade and they need to be prepared for a possible intervention by outside police.

Grand Chief Joseph Norton has said the Mohawk Council of Kahnawake is considering its options, including challenging the injunction.

Norton has said the injunction would not be executed in Kahnawake, and that the Mohawk Peacekeepers are the only policing agency with jurisdiction in the territory.

This report by The Canadian Press was first published Feb. 26, 2020.

With files from CTV Montreal.
Guess the "religious symbols ban" (ie, Muslims are second class citizens) wasn't enough racism for this sack of shit.
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Re: Canadian police arrest activists at Wet’suwet’en anti-pipeline camp

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Talks have begun:

https://ctvnews.ca/politics/ministers-w ... -1.4829678
SMITHERS, B.C -- The hereditary chiefs of the Wet'suwet'en sat down Thursday with senior government ministers to discuss a pipeline dispute that has caused protests across the country, shutting down freight and passenger rail services.

Federal Crown-Indigenous Relations Minister Carolyn Bennett and British Columbia Indigenous Relations Minister Scott Fraser began the long-sought talks in the late afternoon and wrapped after about three hours, with a plan to resume Friday morning.

"Productive talks and we're continuing tomorrow," said Fraser, adding the mood in the room was "very good, very respectful" but it's not appropriate to discuss the details of what took place.

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Talks cancelled between Wet'suwet'en hereditary chiefs, federal and B.C. governments
Indigenous youth in B.C. say protest goes far beyond pipeline issue
Transport Minister confirms police will be 'moving in' on new blockades
Power Play faceoff: Debating the LNG pipeline through Wet'suwet'en land
"We don't want to jeopardize anything. We had a productive day today and we're hoping for a very solid day tomorrow, too."

Bennett said it was a "very good start."

Freda Huson, a spokeswoman for the Unist'ot'en camp that has been set up near the pipeline work site, said the meeting Thursday only covered introductions and the mood was respectful. She said she will not attend on Friday because the meeting will only involve the head chiefs and government officials.

Hereditary Chief Na'moks left without making a statement.

Before the meeting began, both the RCMP and Coastal GasLink said they agreed to conditions requested by the chiefs to allow the discussions to progress.

The natural gas company agreed to a two-day pause in its activities in northwestern B.C., while the RCMP committed to ending patrols along a critical roadway while the negotiations unfold.

The chiefs praised the moves in a statement released before the talks got underway.

"We believe these conditions provide the space we need to be able to sit down at the table in good faith and a positive path forward," the statement read.

"We are so close and have called on the provincial and federal governments to support this de-escalation of activities so that this issue can be resolved."

The chiefs said the meeting with Bennett and Fraser is a "first step," noting both Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and B.C. Premier John Horgan declined invitations to discuss the long-simmering issues that have gained fresh urgency in recent weeks.

The chiefs' opposition to a natural gas pipeline cutting across their traditional territory, coupled with their efforts to limit police presence on their lands, have sparked shows of support across the country that have halted rail service for the past three weeks.

Bennett said she hoped the meetings would pave the way to end the dispute and protests.

"Obviously this is very important," she said moments after arriving in Smithers. "We reaffirm our interest in talking to the Wet'suwet'en Nation and their issues of title and rights."

Horgan said he has met with the hereditary leaders twice over the past year and a half and is prepared to sit down with them again, but there need to be conditions for constructive dialogue.

Fraser understands the community's governance issues and Bennett represents the Crown in Canada, so the best way forward is for them to be at the table, he said.

"I think that this is a good step. I've been seeking peaceful dialogue for a couple of weeks and here we are," he said. "I'm looking forward to harmony as a result of those discussions."

Indigenous Services Minister Marc Miller said the meeting was a victory for open dialogue and peaceful resolution, but it is only the beginning as there are underlying rights and title issues that will take time to resolve.

Wet'suwet'en community members are divided on the pipeline and about a dozen supporters of the project gathered outside the Office of the Wet'suwet'en while the meeting took place.

Bonnie George, a former Coastal GasLink employee who describes herself as a Wet'suwet'en matriarch, handed out a statement that she attributed to the Wet'suwet'en people.

"The public attention brought to our community is having a negative effect on our people and eroding our traditional ways," George said, reading from the statement.

Hereditary chiefs are not decision-makers on their own and are instead meant to reflect the consensus of their clan or house and reach decisions together inside a traditional setting called a Feast House, she said.

George said she wasn't invited to the meeting but she went into the room with others and they made a statement, telling the gathering that the entire nation needs to be represented.

The dispute over the Coastal GasLink pipeline project has been raging for months, but entered a new phase on Dec. 31, 2019, when the B.C. Supreme Court granted the company an injunction calling for the removal of any obstructions from any roads, bridges or work sites it has been authorized to use in Wet'suwet'en territory.

The RCMP moved in to enforce that injunction on Feb. 6. Hours later, protesters started holding up railway traffic outside of Belleville, Ont., in solidarity with the Wet'suwet'en hereditary chiefs, thwarting freight and passenger rail travel.

In Ottawa, one Conservative MP questioned Thursday whether the blockades constitute acts of terrorism.

Doug Shipley put the question to Public Safety Minister Bill Blair during testimony at the House of Commons public safety and national security committee.

The rookie MP said he was asking on behalf of a constituent who sent him an email after a handful of protesters in the Belleville area lit fires near and on railway tracks the day before -- actions that were denounced by Trudeau.

"This resident wanted to know if the current illegal blockades that are happening across Canada are being deemed as a terrorist activity?" Shipley asked.

Blair said they were not, adding the government should not interfere with the police's ability to identify and investigate criminal activity in their jurisdiction.

"It's very appropriate that I be careful in doing that because I do not want to interfere with the operational independence of both the police and our prosecutors," he said. "But at the same time that was terribly unsafe, deeply concerning."

RCMP Commissioner Brenda Lucki testified at the same committee hearing, saying the Mounties have discretion on how to enforce an injunction.

"Of course, enforcement is the last option," she said. "It's about dialogue and trying to find a peaceful resolution to the blockades."

The Ontario Provincial Police took down a major blockade near Tyendinaga Mohawk Territory earlier this week. But about 20 demonstrators gathered near train tracks in Kingston, Ont., farther east along the same line, on Thursday morning.

Local police said the group gathered on the Canadian National Railway Co. overpass, but train traffic had not been affected and officers were monitoring the situation.

Police in Victoria said two protesters were arrested for mischief after using a substance to write messages that included profanity on the building, driveway and walkway of the B.C. legislature.

This report by The Canadian Press was first published Feb. 27, 2020.

With files from Michelle McQuigge and Liam Casey in Toronto, Mike Blanchfield in Ottawa, and Beth Leighton and Laura Kane in Vancouver.

Important statement just released by the Wet'suwet'en Hereditary Chiefs in regards to todays meetings with Canada and BC. As well as the commitments from the RCMP and CGL to enable this meeting to take place "in an atmosphere of wiggus (respect)." pic.twitter.com/aEllArvers

— Nathan Cullen (@nathancullen) February 27, 2020
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Re: Canadian police arrest activists at Wet’suwet’en anti-pipeline camp

Post by loomer »

Do Tyendinaga Mohawk protests amount to ‘terrorism’? Experts say no
The actions of protesters who set fire under a moving CN Rail train in Tyendinaga Mohawk Territory were quickly condemned by the Trudeau government as reckless and unsafe, but resulted in no arrests.

Video posted to social media Wednesday by Real Peoples Media showed several masked Tyendinaga protesters setting wooden skids on fire on the tracks of a CN rail line near Belleville, Ont. as a train passed by.

“Mohawk Warriors here are adamant that no train shall pass,” said an unidentified man in the video.

Another video showed several men throwing rocks and other objects at trains as Ontario Provincial Police officers observed from a short distance away.

Videos also showed protesters standing on the tracks as a train approached before jumping out of the way at the last second.



Conservative leadership candidate Erin O’Toole took to social media to denounce the actions of Tyendinaga protesters as “terrorism.”

“Setting fire to and attempting to derail trains in this context is terrorism according to section 83.01 of the Criminal Code,” said O’Toole, an MP for the Ontario riding of Durham

“Enough is enough. This has crossed the line from illegal protest to terrorism. That’s how it should be treated.”

Do the actions amount to terrorism?
National security law expert Prof. Leah West said the actions come close to meeting the definition of a terrorist act under Canada’s anti-terrorism legislation, but fail to meet key criteria.

West said terrorist activity must be done for a certain motive, like political or religious reasons, and must intimidate the public or compel a government into a specific action.

Both these requirements are met, according to West.

However, these actions likely wouldn’t result in a successful prosecution as the intent must have a significantly violent or destructive outcome.

“It’s not just enough that you damage property, it’s not just enough that you disrupt services, the intent has to be one that the destruction could lead to a loss of life,” she said.

West said while the actions are “dangerous,” they’re not on a level with terrorist activity.

“They are walking up to the line but not crossing it,” she said.

National security expert Stephanie Carvin said it’s not helpful to label these actions as terrorism and there are other criminal charges that could be filed. Ten people in Tyendinaga were charged with mischief and disobeying a court order Monday.
“There was a concern that [Canada’s anti-terrorism] legislation would be used to crush protests and freedom of speech,” said Carvin, an assistant professor of international relations at Carleton University’s Norman Paterson School of International Affairs.

“We need to be careful with what we are labelling terrorism or violent extremism in a highly-charged political context.”

Asked whether police were looking at laying charges after the fires Wednesday, OPP spokesperson Bill Dickson said he couldn’t comment on “operational activity or planning.”

“Our Provincial Liaison Team did engage protestors and others at the site to talk about the dangerous activities and to de-escalate the situation,” Dickson said in an email. “As a result of these efforts, tensions and activity at the scene did ease.

“We continue to focus on peaceful measures to resolve this situation.”
Public Safety Minister questioned

Conservative MP Doug Shipley questioned Public Safety Minister Bill Blair Thursday about whether the “illegal blockades” happening across Canada are being “deemed as a terrorist activity.”

“No they’re not,” Blair said during testimony at the House of Commons public safety and national security committee.
“I have a responsibility [as minister] to leave it to the police of jurisdiction in the exercise of their discretion to determine and investigate criminal activity. So I avoid pronouncements of and defining that activity.”

Blair called the actions “unsafe” and said he would let police handle the situation.

“I do not want to interfere with the operational independence of both the police and our prosecutors. But at the same time that was terribly unsafe, deeply concerning. I have confidence in the police to deal with it appropriately.”

Rail and road blockades have sprung up across the country for weeks in support for the hereditary chiefs of the Wet’suwet’en Nation in northwestern British Columbia who oppose the $6.6-billion Coastal GasLink pipeline project

On Feb. 6, the RCMP moved to enforce a court injunction on Wet’suwet’en territory, which sparked solidarity protests in Ontario and Quebec, blocking rail travel between Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal.

On Monday, the OPP cleared a blockade set by Tyendinaga Mohawk protesters that had throttled CN’s main eastern Canada railway link.

Federal Minister of Crown-Indigenous relations Carolyn Bennett confirmed Thursday morning that she had arrived in Vancouver and was en route to Smithers, B.C. for “truly important meetings” with B.C. Indigenous Relations Minister Scott Fraser and Wet’suwet’en hereditary chiefs.

Meanwhile, Transport Minister Marc Garneau said Canadian National Railway Co. had a logjam of 184 trains sitting in Canada and the United States as a result of rail disruptions and the backlog could take “many, many weeks” to fix.

He condemned the actions of protesters Wednesday as “extremely reckless.”

“It was something that not only put in danger the life of the people who were actually lighting this fire under a moving train, but also could have been very dangerous for many other people,” Garneau told reporters Wednesday.

“What if this train was carrying dangerous materials? It could have ignited.
Good on 'em, I say.
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Re: Canadian police arrest activists at Wet’suwet’en anti-pipeline camp

Post by loomer »

Apparently the bail release conditions for solidarity protesters and blockaders includes a prohibition on using social media to encourage, promote, or otherwise support Wet'suwet'en solidarity activity.
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Re: Canadian police arrest activists at Wet’suwet’en anti-pipeline camp

Post by The Romulan Republic »

loomer wrote: 2020-02-29 01:10am Apparently the bail release conditions for solidarity protesters and blockaders includes a prohibition on using social media to encourage, promote, or otherwise support Wet'suwet'en solidarity activity.
So, literally imprisoning people for exercising freedom of expression to engage in peaceful political protest. :evil:
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Re: Canadian police arrest activists at Wet’suwet’en anti-pipeline camp

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The fascists are now making bomb and death threats. No surprises there, of course. One can only hope that if they try anything they get seen off because lord knows the RCMP isn't going to stop them.
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Re: Canadian police arrest activists at Wet’suwet’en anti-pipeline camp

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loomer wrote: 2020-02-29 10:25pm The fascists are now making bomb and death threats. No surprises there, of course. One can only hope that if they try anything they get seen off because lord knows the RCMP isn't going to stop them.
I would hope that Trudeau would at least make clear that yes, the RCMP's duties do include arresting Nazi terrorists.

But if not...

Well, I don't condone political violence, but I do believe in the right to self-defense, and if peaceful protesters are attacked with armed force, they have the right to stop being peaceful protesters until the attack is repulsed or eliminated.
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Re: Canadian police arrest activists at Wet’suwet’en anti-pipeline camp

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The agreement reached between the Canadian government and the Wetsuweten government does not cover the proposed pipeline. It'll be interesting to see if the agreement - when and if ratified by the Wetsuweten - respects the sovereignty of the Wetsuweten chiefs and grants them ultimate planning authority over their territories.
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Re: Canadian police arrest activists at Wet’suwet’en anti-pipeline camp

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And in case anyone thought the cops were on the right side of this. Between this and the bullshit about the Mohawk having AK-47s (and why, precisely, shouldn't they arm themselves to resist an illegitimate occupation anyway?) there's an unpleasant pattern emerging.
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Re: Canadian police arrest activists at Wet’suwet’en anti-pipeline camp

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loomer wrote: 2020-03-04 08:57pm And in case anyone thought the cops were on the right side of this. Between this and the bullshit about the Mohawk having AK-47s (and why, precisely, shouldn't they arm themselves to resist an illegitimate occupation anyway?) there's an unpleasant pattern emerging.
I haven't seen anyone here say they are on the right side, although I have felt cautious optimism that the top levels declined to enforce the court ruling.

Be interesting to see how his investigation turns out.
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Re: Canadian police arrest activists at Wet’suwet’en anti-pipeline camp

Post by Tribble »

loomer wrote: 2020-03-04 08:57pm And in case anyone thought the cops were on the right side of this. Between this and the bullshit about the Mohawk having AK-47s (and why, precisely, shouldn't they arm themselves to resist an illegitimate occupation anyway?) there's an unpleasant pattern emerging.
Do you mean occupation of their territory for the pipeline, or the occupation of First Peoples lands by Europeans and their descendants in general?

Just asking cause there have been threads about the ladder. If the ultimate goal is the dissolution of Canada and the return of all land to First People’s control, giving the population disparity I have my doubts that armed resistance would work.
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