The SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19 coronavirus

[Ralin]

3. Chinese people are facing discrimination in Europe.

Friend of mine whose family comes from the Philippines and is visibly East Asian went to Dublin for her birthday a few weeks ago. Said that people literally pointed at her in the street and shouted "CORONAVIRUS!" Multiple times.

[mr friendly guy]

3. Chinese people are facing discrimination in Europe.

Friend of mine whose family comes from the Philippines and is visibly East Asian went to Dublin for her birthday a few weeks ago. Said that people literally pointed at her in the street and shouted "CORONAVIRUS!" Multiple times.

I will be in Europe in mid April until early June. Hopefully the virus is receding by then. Otherwise I might troll people by pretending to cough at these fuckers. Because I can.

[Reaver225]

I will be in Europe in mid April until early June. Hopefully the virus is receding by then. Otherwise I might troll people by pretending to cough at these fuckers. Because I can.

Be careful you don't get lynched. I've had reports from relatives/Chinese communities of gangs targeting Chinese citizens in London for theft and assault. I haven't verified these personally, but there definitely is a fair bit of unease going around. Stirring up more trouble for the sake of trolling folks is a pretty small action, but it certainly won't help. There's started to be a few hate crimes being reported as well:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... -asian-man

You'd not deserve getting beaten up, but anything that increases the general public's distrust probably isn't great.

[Ralin]

I'd see it less as trolling and more as encouraging them to fuck off and go away.

[mr friendly guy]

Yeah, I live by the rule, if you do no bother me, I will not bother you. If they are going to shout coronavirus, then its fair to piss them off as well.

[Broomstick]

I will be in Europe in mid April until early June. Hopefully the virus is receding by then. Otherwise I might troll people by pretending to cough at these fuckers. Because I can.

Not advisable. There have been reports of physical assaults against people who look Asian, if I were you I'd avoid doing anything that might be seen as provocative, threatening, or sign of illness.

Yes, the uneasy mob might be provoking you, or insulting, or whatever... but they're an uneasy mob that outnumbers you, and you don't want them to turn into a frightened mob.

[Ralin]

If they're already harassing or attacking people in the streets based on their perceived ethnicity or nationality I think you're past the 'don't provoke them' stage.

Also seems a wee bit condescending to be lecturing someone who might be on the receiving end of that harassment about this. Figure he knows that angry racist people can be violent.

[Broomstick]

I'd have more confidence in that if he weren't "joking" about coughing on people are are clearly already afraid.

I've been hearing very ugly comments at work already from some of the customers toward our Asian-looking customers, it wouldn't take much to provoke violence from some of them. Of course, such people are always around but circumstances are making it more likely for them to act out.

[Ralin]

It's a judgment call whether it's worth the risk, sure, but in this scenario the person in question is already harassing him and calling out/giving the finger to hateful MF-ers like that when you can is both good for society and its own reward.

[FireNexus]

I can tell it’s the real thing because I don’t feel anxious about it. I feel alert and aware, tinged with dread, but I’m not nervous or afraid. The reports of epidemiologists saying they think it is unlikely to be contained and that the vaccine or antivirals are too far out to do much makes it worse.

I worry about my partner, our son, and her family. The xenophobia could get bad, especially if the case fatality rate remains at 2%. It’s fixing to be worse than a seasonal flu by at least an order of magnitude, from what I can see as a layman, but 2% is like “right now everybody knows at least 1-2 people who will be corpses by Christmas” if it goes wide.

[bilateralrope]

2% is the overall death rate. Lets break that down into demographics.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir ... ographics/

Age of Coronavirus Deaths
Based on all 72,314 cases of COVID-19 confirmed, suspected, and asymptomatic cases in China as of February 11, a paper by the Chinese CCDC released on February 17 and published in the Chinese Journal of Epidemiology [1] has found that the risk of death increases the older you are, as follows:

COVID-19 Fatality Rate by AGE:
*Death Rate = (number of deaths / number of cases) = probability of dying if infected by the virus (%). This probability differs depending on the age group. The percentage shown below does NOT represent in any way the share of deaths by age group. Rather, it represents, for a person in a given age group, the risk of dying if infected with COVID-19.

Code: Select all

AGE                  DEATH RATE*
80+ years old    14.8%
70-79 years old   8.0%
60-69 years old   3.6%
50-59 years old   1.3%
40-49 years old   0.4%
30-39 years old   0.2%
20-29 years old   0.2%
10-19 years old   0.2%
0-9 years old	no fatalities

*Death Rate = (number of deaths / number of cases) = probability of dying if infected by the virus (%).

In general, relatively few cases are seen among children.

Sex ratio
COVID-19 Fatality Rate by SEX:
*Death Rate = (number of deaths / number of cases) = probability of dying if infected by the virus (%). This probability differs depending on sex. When reading these numbers, it must be taken into account that smoking in China is much more prevalent among males. Smoking increases the risks of respiratory complications.

Code: Select all

SEX       DEATH RATE *
Male     2.8%
Female   1.7%

Pre-existing medical conditions (comorbidities)
Patients who reported no pre-existing ("comorbid") medical conditions had a case fatality rate of 0.9%. Pre-existing illnesses that put patients at higher risk of dying from a COVID-19 infection are:

COVID-19 Fatality Rate by COMORBIDITY:
*Death Rate = (number of deaths / number of cases) = probability of dying if infected by the virus (%). This probability differs depending on pre-existing condition. The percentage shown below does NOT represent in any way the share of deaths by pre-existing condition. Rather, it represents, for a patient with a given pre-existing condition, the risk of dying if infected by COVID-19.

Code: Select all

PRE-EXISTING CONDITION   DEATH RATE*
Cardiovascular disease        10.5%
Diabetes                       7.3%
Chronic respiratory disease    6.3%
Hypertension                   6.0%
Cancer                         5.6%
no pre-existing conditions     0.9%

[FireNexus]

Yeah, it’s clearly mostly old people and those with pre-existing conditions (and the hardest hit are ones that cluster around old people, so I suspect age is still the culprit there, mostly). TBH, I think half of my lack of anxiety is that “No reported deaths” in the 0-9 bracket. The flu is much more dangerous to my son than COVID, so far.

But if 15% of everyone’s grandparents are dead by the end of the year, given that we have already seen troubling xenophobia, the potential actions of grief-stricken racists make me much more nervous than the virus.

[Broomstick]

It's a judgment call whether it's worth the risk, sure, but in this scenario the person in question is already harassing him and calling out/giving the finger to hateful MF-ers like that when you can is both good for society and its own reward.

It's "good for society", perhaps, but not so much for the poor bastard they might beat to death. I keep remembering Vincent Chin,

Yes, a judgement call, one where I would very much err on the side of caution even if someone else wouldn't.

[MKSheppard]

I will be in Europe in mid April until early June. Hopefully the virus is receding by then. Otherwise I might troll people by pretending to cough at these fuckers. Because I can.

Dibs on your animinu collection at the estate sale.

[MKSheppard]

Plenty of other places have shown how shit they are, including western countries and western supported ones.

There was a lot of shitty behavior in the early (China-based) phase of this pandemic.



https://asiatimes.com/2020/02/trio-of-s ... hong-kong/

Revelations that two visitors from Wuhan, who fled one day before the provincial capital went into lockdown, arrived in Hong Kong on January 22 and have been moving around the city has caused panic.

The couple and their daughter had sustained coughing, fever and other symptoms and managed to evade temperature checks at the airport before moving around the city and possibly spreading the virus.

Local papers reported that the daughter of the Wuhan couple, a senior executive at the Hong Kong headquarters of the China-invested stoke broker Haitong Securities, helped them check into at least two luxury hotels across the city while knowing her parents were sick. For days the trio rubbed shoulders with people in busy shopping malls in Central, Admiralty and Tsim Sha Tsui.

Their “hotel-hopping” was not stopped until January 28 – almost a week after the couple flew into Hong Kong on Cathay Dragon flight KA 853 from Wuhan. Butlers at the Four Seasons Hong Kong in Central spotted the onset of their disease and alerted police and the Department of Health.

The couple and their daughter were bundled into ambulances by a medical team in protective gear after they refused to be transported. They tested positive for the virus the following day, with the daughter becoming the city’s first case of person-to-person infection.

The trio has been isolated in negative pressure wards at the Princess Margaret Hospital since then.

Ironically, the daughter, a Harvard-groomed investment banker at Haitong, is said to have a degree in biology.

Persistent interrogation by doctors laid bare more details about their trips throughout the city and places they visited, including two other luxury hotels.

The couple spent a total of six nights at the W hotel in West Kowloon and are also said to have stopped by the Ritz-Carlton hotel, which occupies the top 16 floors of the International Commerce Center, Hong Kong’s tallest skyscraper. The Ritz-Carlton, however, has stressed that the couple were not staying guests at the hotel, nor did they dine at any of its restaurants or used its facilities.

The couple did visit a clinic on January 24 due to fevers and coughing, but left before doctors there could give them checks due to a “language barrier.”

Still, the patients’ recalcitrance in the subsequent etiology investigation has stumped the government, with medical experts scrambling to map more places the trio had been to when they were “on the run.”

Health officials were heckled during press conferences over the past weekend after admitting they had no legal power to force anyone suspected of being infected to seek medical attention.

Hong Kong’s Secretary for Food and Health Sophia Chan told reporters that the patients could have visited several shopping malls, restaurants and supermarkets in various districts. She added that those from Wuhan and the rest of Hubei province should go through home isolation for no less than 14 days, while anyone with symptoms should see a doctor immediately. The government would further enhance laboratory surveillance as well as quarantine of contacts of the patients, she said.

The fact that the couple could elude temperature checks all the way from Wuhan to Hong Kong has thrown the slack implementation of infection prevention measures into stark relief. There have been calls to amend local laws to criminalize those infected or carrying virus who refuse to be quarantined.

The case of the “super-spreaders” has further fueled the stigmatization of mainland Chinese living in or visiting the former British territory, with some frontline nurses and doctors already threatening a general strike if the government continues to allow mainlanders to enter the city.

[FireNexus]

Can a kid change the thread title? The virus/disease have official names, SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19, and the new names explicitly avoid referring to Wuhan or any other place, for good reason.

[ray245]

Plenty of other places have shown how shit they are, including western countries and western supported ones.

There was a lot of shitty behavior in the early (China-based) phase of this pandemic.

This comes across as being rather racist to me.

[FireNexus]

Can a kid change the thread title? The virus/disease have official names, SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19, and the new names explicitly avoid referring to Wuhan or any other place, for good reason.

A mod, rather.

[mr friendly guy]

The fact that the couple could elude temperature checks all the way from Wuhan to Hong Kong has thrown the slack implementation of infection prevention measures into stark relief. There have been calls to amend local laws to criminalize those infected or carrying virus who refuse to be quarantined.

Remember guys, when China forcibly quarantines people, Radio Free Asia and western media starts calling it a human rights violation, because you have the right to infect someone apparently. When Hong Kong proposes the same thing, not a peep.

[Broomstick]

Really? Because I haven't heard about the quarantine being a human rights violation.

There's been some noise over here about Americans being held in involuntary quarantine by their own government, too. Nobody likes being on lockdown, but there's some recognition of why quarantine exists.

And now some American cities are refusing to allow quarantinees (is that a word?) to come to the locations for fear of accidental spread. It has already landed in the courts.

[The Romulan Republic]

On that note, here in Shenzhen the city government has warned people not to be lulled into a false sense of security about going outside by the nice weather today. Though it has been several days since there any been any confirmed new coronavirus cases.

Well, there's some good news.

The numbers have been dropping for days in parts of China that are outside of Hubei province. So far total numbers look to be plateauing in terms of new cases, and patients in serious condition has been dropping as well. By now the recovered is 9 -10 times the number who have died. To put fatalities inperspective, the daily number of fatalities is less than the daily fatalities for opiod overdoses in the United States. Obviously the numbers most probably are higher if the Chinese didn't implement their quarantine policy.

Edit - and if we are going to go on about how bad some countries are, I would also like to add in the mix

1. Ukraine - attacked a bus with evacuated nationals back to Ukraine, some of who may have Chinese ancestry (remember people, there are Chinese people in a lot of non Asian countries). Vice covered this one.

2. Hong Kong - Doctors striking if the government refusing to completely close the border with the mainland, even though the WHO did not at that part recommended it. Followed by the "democratic," civic party slamming the government when they evacuated HK citizens from the boat because... wait for it... wait for it... they also evacuated mainlanders, and never mind the guy who organised the bus to take the evacuees was a mainlander. And never mind that China despite having a shortage of masks, still supplied 19,000 to HK. Or how HK "pro democracy" protesters are gloating that some police officer has covid 19. But the free liberal media will look the other way on this one.

3. Chinese people are facing discrimination in Europe.

Plenty of other places have shown how shit they are, including western countries and western supported ones.

It would be nice if it was possible to ever say something critical about Russian policies without the Non-Western Dictators Apologist Brigade immediately changing the topic to how bad the West is (aka, Whataboutism). Which is not to say that Western racism is less important, of course- just that its ALWAYS being brought up immediately in response to criticism of Russia's government is very clearly a deflection tactic and bad faith debating, not a genuine concern for addressing prejudice wherever it is found.

But while we're on the topic:

https://cnn.com/2020/02/20/us/coronavir ... index.html

https://aljazeera.com/news/2020/02/coro ... 32254.html

https://aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/w ... 06485.html

And this one, which makes at least one person arguably killed by racist fear of coronavirus (a Chinese man died in Sydney Australia after people refused to give him CPR due to fear of coronavirus):

https://metro.co.uk/2020/01/30/man-died ... -12155013/

Oh, and don't forget Shep's last post, of course.


Meanwhile, the WHO warns governments to prepare for a pandemic:

https://bbc.com/news/world-51611422#

The World Health Organization has said the world should do more to prepare for a possible coronavirus pandemic.

The WHO said it was too early to call the outbreak a pandemic but countries should be "in a phase of preparedness".

A pandemic is when an infectious disease spreads easily from person to person in many parts of the world.

More cases of the virus, which causes respiratory disease Covid-19, continue to emerge, with outbreaks in South Korea, Italy and Iran causing concern.

However, most infections are in China, the original source of the virus, where more than 77,000 people have the disease and over 2,600 have died.

More than 1,200 cases have been confirmed in about 30 other countries and there have been more than 20 deaths. Italy reported four more deaths on Monday, raising the total there to seven.

Worldwide stock markets saw sharp falls because of concerns about the economic impact of the virus.

China said it would postpone the annual meeting of the National People's Congress next month, to "continue the efforts" against the coronavirus.

The body, which approves decisions made by the Communist Party, has met every year since 1978.

The proportion of infected people who die from Covid-19 appears to be between 1% and 2%, although the WHO cautions that the mortality rate is not known yet.

On Monday Iraq, Afghanistan, Kuwait, Oman and Bahrain reported their first cases, all involving people who had come from Iran. Officials in Bahrain said the patient infected there was a school bus driver, and several schools had been closed as a result.

Coronavirus: Could it become a pandemic?
Tell us how you've been affected by emailing haveyoursay@bbc.co.uk.
Among other developments:

Some upcoming football matches in Italy's Serie A and the Europa League will be played behind closed doors to prevent the spread of the virus, Italy's sports minister says
Gold surged to its highest price in seven years as coronavirus fears led investors to seek a safe haven
South Korean pop group BTS asks fans to stay away from upcoming TV shows, which will be taped without a studio audience
North Korea has quarantined 380 foreigners in a bid to stop the coronavirus from breaking out.
What does the WHO say?
WHO chief Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus told reporters on Monday that the number of new cases in recent days in Iran, Italy and South Korea was "deeply concerning".

However he added: "For the moment we are not witnessing the uncontained global spread of this virus and we are not witnessing large scale severe disease or deaths.

"Does this virus have pandemic potential? Absolutely, it has. Are we there yet? From our assessment, not yet."

Can we answer your question on the coronavirus?
Type your question here

Here's what others have been asking
Once you've had coronavirus, will you be immune?
Is the coronavirus worse than flu or Sars?
Who is worst affected by the virus?
"The key message that should give all countries hope, courage and confidence is that this virus can be contained, indeed there are many countries that have done exactly that," Mr Tedros said.

"Using the word 'pandemic' now does not fit the facts but may certainly cause fear."

But Mike Ryan, head of WHO's health emergencies programme, said now was the time to make "do everything you would do to prepare for a pandemic".

'Pandemic' is just a word
Is the coronavirus a pandemic? For now the WHO says no. It argues the number of countries with outbreaks, the severity of the disease and the impact on society has not reached pandemic-level.

But some scientists - assessing the same picture - think we are already there and others say we're on the cusp. The surge in cases in South Korea and the deaths in Iran and Italy have dialled up concern over the past few days.

The deaths suggest there are far more cases in those two countries than have been reported and that the virus has been there for some time.

But ultimately the word pandemic is just that - a word - it will not unlock more money or give the WHO new powers. It has already issued the highest warning it can, by declaring the virus a global emergency.


Media captionWhat are viruses? And how do they spread?
What are the symptoms?
The main signs of infection are fever (high temperature) and a cough as well as shortness of breath and breathing difficulties.

What should I do?
Frequent hand washing with soap or gel, avoiding close contact with people who are ill and not touching your eyes, nose and mouth with unwashed hands can help cut the risk of infection.

Catching coughs and sneezes in a tissue, binning it and washing your hands can minimise the risk of spreading disease.

What is coronavirus and what are the symptoms?
What does 'pandemic' mean?
A pandemic is the worldwide spread of a new disease
The H1N1 (swine flu) outbreak, which killed hundreds of thousands of people, was declared a pandemic by the WHO in 2009
The WHO no longer formally labels an outbreak of disease a "pandemic" but says the term may be used "colloquially"
Its advice to countries - to limit the infections while preparing for wider spread - remains the same
Which are the worst-affected countries?
South Korea - which has the largest number of confirmed cases outside China - reported another 231 infections on Monday taking the total there to more than 830. Eight people have died.

Around 7,700 troops have been quarantined after 11 military members were infected.

But the biggest virus clusters have been linked to a hospital and a religious group near the south-eastern city of Daegu.


Media captionPeople in Daegu have voiced concern over the spread of the virus
Coronavirus: A visual guide to the outbreak
How a misleading coronavirus map went global
Watching loved ones die without care in Wuhan
Italy has the largest number of cases in Europe, 229, and announced a series of drastic measures over the weekend to try to contain the outbreak.

In the regions of Lombardy and Veneto, a lock-down is in place in several small towns. For the next two weeks, 50,000 residents will not be able to leave without special permission.


Media captionMark Lowen was on the ground at the edge of Italy's coronavirus lockdown area
Even outside the zone, many businesses and schools have suspended activities, and sporting events have been cancelled.

Three deaths announced on Monday were all in Lombardy, Italian media reported.

It is not yet clear how the virus entered the country, officials said.

In China, the government announced a ban on the consumption of wild animals and a crackdown on the hunting, transportation and trade of prohibited species, state media say.

It is thought that the outbreak originated at a market in the city of Wuhan selling wild animals.

China reported 508 new infections on Monday, compared with 409 on Sunday. The bulk of the new cases were in Wuhan. Outside the worst-hit province of Hubei, the number of new infections continues to decline, according to official figures.

The death toll in China rose by 71 to 2,663.

Iran said on Sunday it had 61 confirmed cases of the virus, most of them in the holy city of Qom. Twelve of those infected have died, the highest number of deaths outside China.

On Monday an MP in Qom accused the government of covering up the extent of the outbreak, saying there were 50 deaths in the city alone. However, the country's deputy health minister quickly denied the claim.

I'm curious as to why the ratio of cases to deaths is significantly worse in China than the world average. Is it just that China has more cases and so is being overwhelmed by them, or is there something about how they're responding that's leading to a higher mortality rate? Or is that simply an unanswerable question at this point? I'd also like to know, in the event of a full-fledged pandemic, whether we can expect a death rate closer to the world average outside of China, or closer to the average in China.

[mr friendly guy]

I'm curious as to why the ratio of cases to deaths is significantly worse in China than the world average. Is it just that China has more cases and so is being overwhelmed by them, or is there something about how they're responding that's leading to a higher mortality rate? Or is that simply an unanswerable question at this point? I'd also like to know, in the event of a full-fledged pandemic, whether we can expect a death rate closer to the world average outside of China, or closer to the average in China.

If you look at the deaths in China, the high rate is in Hubei province the epicentre. Elsewhere the death rate is lower, so its most probably because staff are being overwhelmed by the numbers. If the cases are spread out over locations, then I expect the death rate to be on the lower end of things.

[The Romulan Republic]

I'm curious as to why the ratio of cases to deaths is significantly worse in China than the world average. Is it just that China has more cases and so is being overwhelmed by them, or is there something about how they're responding that's leading to a higher mortality rate? Or is that simply an unanswerable question at this point? I'd also like to know, in the event of a full-fledged pandemic, whether we can expect a death rate closer to the world average outside of China, or closer to the average in China.

If you look at the deaths in China, the high rate is in Hubei province the epicentre. Elsewhere the death rate is lower, so its most probably because staff are being overwhelmed by the numbers. If the cases are spread out over locations, then I expect the death rate to be on the lower end of things.

So most of China is probably closer to the global average, but in the event of a full pandemic, we can expect Hubei province-like death rates as hospitals get overwhelmed?

[LadyTevar]

Can a kid change the thread title? The virus/disease have official names, SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19, and the new names explicitly avoid referring to Wuhan or any other place, for good reason.

A mod, rather.

DONE.

[LadyTevar]

Plenty of other places have shown how shit they are, including western countries and western supported ones.

There was a lot of shitty behavior in the early (China-based) phase of this pandemic.

https://asiatimes.com/2020/02/trio-of-s ... hong-kong/

This comes across as being rather racist to me.

IT WAS. IMAGE DELETED. ISSUE HAS BEEN HANDLED.