SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

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The Romulan Republic
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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Washington Post article attacking Sanders:

https://washingtonpost.com/opinions/ame ... story.html

For those who don't want to read it, it can be summed up as follows:

"Bernie is against billionaires! That means he's against BLACK billionaires! Bernie thinks Oprah shouldn't exist! Bernie is racist!"

Includes quotes like:
The very thought of that list seems to sicken Sanders. “There should be no billionaires,” he flatly declared in a tweet last fall.

Sanders said he wants to be rid of them because “we cannot afford a billionaire class whose greed and corruption has been at war with the working families of this country for 45 years.”
And
Oprah Winfrey, Michael Jordan and company have no place in Bernie’s world. But would others in America seeking or enjoying economic empowerment truly be better off? Who wants to risk finding out?
They don't flat-out say it, but their choice of words, "be rid of them" and "have no place in Bernie's world", honestly seems designed to conjure images of Bernie wanting to exterminate black people. And does anyone, even the most ardent Sanders-hater, really believe that Bernie's problem with billionaires has anything to do with their race? Or that thinking black billionaires should be taxed is motivated is racist?

But of course, we're the divisive ones.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by FireNexus »

It’s interesting, TRR, that you didn’t quote this entire article. Especially because you regularly can’t be arsed to remove photo captions. I’m past my paywall limit for wapo, but I bet the rest of that article makes good points you would rather not acknowledge and/or you didn’t read the whole thing and scanned for something inflammatory.
I had a Bill Maher quote here. But fuck him for his white privelegy "joke".

All the rest? Too long.
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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by FaxModem1 »

Biden, always willing to put his foot in his mouth when able:

Newsweek
IN PRIVATE MEETING, JOE BIDEN SAID PART OF EDUCATION PROBLEM IN BLACK COMMUNITIES IS THAT 'PARENTS CAN'T READ OR WRITE THEMSELVES'
BY JASON LEMON ON 2/13/20 AT 11:31 AM EST
Can someone explain to me how this sort of thing happens and Biden still wins the SC primary and so many states on Super Tuesday?
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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

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FaxModem1 wrote: 2020-03-07 06:48pm Biden, always willing to put his foot in his mouth when able:

Newsweek
IN PRIVATE MEETING, JOE BIDEN SAID PART OF EDUCATION PROBLEM IN BLACK COMMUNITIES IS THAT 'PARENTS CAN'T READ OR WRITE THEMSELVES'
BY JASON LEMON ON 2/13/20 AT 11:31 AM EST
Can someone explain to me how this sort of thing happens and Biden still wins the SC primary and so many states on Super Tuesday?
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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by Elfdart »

aerius wrote: 2020-03-04 10:50pm
Gandalf wrote: 2020-03-03 05:53pm
aerius wrote: 2020-03-03 05:48pm Question: If it goes to a brokered convention, is it theoretically possible for Hillary to swoop in out of left field and claim the leadership?
Technically, yes.
With the way this race is going, I need to find a bookie so I can put down $20 on Hillary 2020.
Remember, she said she was staying in the 2008 race in case Obama ended up like Robert Kennedy -which is to say, murdered while campaigning. Biden has had an aneurism and is showing late 1980s Reagan-level senility, while Sanders has had a heart attack, so it's a possibility before they even get to the convention. Though I should that if such a double calamity happens, the last remaining candidate (Tulsi Gabbard) should get the nod instead of someone who didn't bother to run.
loomer wrote: 2020-03-05 05:03am I reckon she's still mad about Kamala getting rightfully dragged for her actions as DA and AG.
Speaking of Gabbard, the nation owes her a debt of gratitude for kneecapping Kamala Harris.
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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by Elfdart »

FireNexus wrote: 2020-03-05 11:20am More seriously, if she endorses Biden you can expect her to be the VP pick I think. She doesn’t like Joe Biden, and wouldn’t endorse without a big promise. Biden didn’t call her a liar to her face on national television, of course, and that wound is fresher than the bankruptcy law. So who knows?
Yeah, it's not just unforgivable, but racist as fuck to deny accusations from a Native American.
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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by Darth Yan »

Elfdart wrote: 2020-03-07 09:53pm
aerius wrote: 2020-03-04 10:50pm
Gandalf wrote: 2020-03-03 05:53pm

Technically, yes.
With the way this race is going, I need to find a bookie so I can put down $20 on Hillary 2020.
Remember, she said she was staying in the 2008 race in case Obama ended up like Robert Kennedy -which is to say, murdered while campaigning. Biden has had an aneurism and is showing late 1980s Reagan-level senility, while Sanders has had a heart attack, so it's a possibility before they even get to the convention. Though I should that if such a double calamity happens, the last remaining candidate (Tulsi Gabbard) should get the nod instead of someone who didn't bother to run.
loomer wrote: 2020-03-05 05:03am I reckon she's still mad about Kamala getting rightfully dragged for her actions as DA and AG.
Speaking of Gabbard, the nation owes her a debt of gratitude for kneecapping Kamala Harris.
She has ties with hindu extremists and anti muslim bigots and is a raving homophobe. One good act doesn't change that she's a piece of shit
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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Elfdart wrote: 2020-03-07 09:53pm
aerius wrote: 2020-03-04 10:50pm
Gandalf wrote: 2020-03-03 05:53pm

Technically, yes.
With the way this race is going, I need to find a bookie so I can put down $20 on Hillary 2020.
Remember, she said she was staying in the 2008 race in case Obama ended up like Robert Kennedy -which is to say, murdered while campaigning. Biden has had an aneurism and is showing late 1980s Reagan-level senility, while Sanders has had a heart attack, so it's a possibility before they even get to the convention. Though I should that if such a double calamity happens, the last remaining candidate (Tulsi Gabbard) should get the nod instead of someone who didn't bother to run.
loomer wrote: 2020-03-05 05:03am I reckon she's still mad about Kamala getting rightfully dragged for her actions as DA and AG.
Speaking of Gabbard, the nation owes her a debt of gratitude for kneecapping Kamala Harris.
Gabbard is an Islamophobic, xenophobic, Trump-cozying Assad apologist conspiracy theorist, one who is blatantly running to undermine the Democratic Party/audition for her gig as Fox News's token Democrat (or maybe a slot on RT?). If there is one candidate on a Dem ticket I might sit out this election for, it would be Tulsi Gabbard.

In any case, should Biden and Bernie both be unable or unwilling to run due to some catastrophe, then I'd say the fair thing to do would be to work our way down the list of candidates in order of who got the most votes/delegates (so Warren, Bloomberg, Buttigieg, Klobuchar, and only then Russian Asset), or else to nominate whoever the front-runner endorsed before dropping out.

What would actually happen, of course, would be a brokered convention (possibly conducted via webcam, if there's a full-fledged pandemic going on), likely with the nomination going to one of the also-rans (probably Warren or Bloomberg is my guess).

You know, if we want to respect the choices of the party voters as well as possible, instead of
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Elfdart wrote: 2020-03-07 09:58pm
FireNexus wrote: 2020-03-05 11:20am More seriously, if she endorses Biden you can expect her to be the VP pick I think. She doesn’t like Joe Biden, and wouldn’t endorse without a big promise. Biden didn’t call her a liar to her face on national television, of course, and that wound is fresher than the bankruptcy law. So who knows?
Yeah, it's not just unforgivable, but racist as fuck to deny accusations from a Native American.
Bernie didn't call her a liar, not explicitly anyway. Certainly no more than she called him one.

Also, are you seriously literally saying "All accusations made by anyone with Native American ancestry must be assumed to be true, regardless of evidence, or you're a racist?"

Here, let's turn this around. After all, we want to be consistent in calling out racism. Right?

"Yeah, it's not just unforgivable, but racist as fuck to deny accusations from a Jew."

That statement has every bit as much validity as your's. Unless you are arguing that the persecution of Jews is somehow less significant, or their grievances less valid, than those of Native Americans. Is that the case?
FireNexus wrote: 2020-03-07 06:13pm It’s interesting, TRR, that you didn’t quote this entire article. Especially because you regularly can’t be arsed to remove photo captions. I’m past my paywall limit for wapo, but I bet the rest of that article makes good points you would rather not acknowledge and/or you didn’t read the whole thing and scanned for something inflammatory.
I didn't post it in full because its toxic, inflamatory swill. Nor do I or anyone else quote everything we link to in full, nor is there a requirement on this board to do so.

But what the hell, here you go:
Don’t quite know how to break the news to Oprah Winfrey, Michael Jordan, Robert F. Smith, David Steward and Shawn Carter, a.k.a. Jay-Z. But if Bernie Sanders makes it to the White House, they had better pack their bags and head for the hills.

That’s because Winfrey, Jordan, Smith, Steward and Jay-Z, the five richest black people in America, are among the 607 Americans who landed on Forbes’s annual billionaires list.

The very thought of that list seems to sicken Sanders. “There should be no billionaires,” he flatly declared in a tweet last fall.

Sanders said he wants to be rid of them because “we cannot afford a billionaire class whose greed and corruption has been at war with the working families of this country for 45 years.”

I am not personally acquainted with Winfrey, Jordan, Smith, Steward or Jay-Z. I am aware of their prominence in the world of the wealthy. I’m sure they are just as flawed as the rest of humanity. It never occurred to me, however, to think of them as greedy, corrupt threats to America’s working families or the cause of economic disparities and human misery.

As best I can tell, America’s black billionaires didn’t reach Forbes’s list because of inherited money. They also didn’t amass their net worth through marriage. Winfrey, Jordan, Smith, Steward and Jay-Z built their fortunes. No matter. Sanders wants to tax it away.

But it’s not just the wealthiest of the wealthy who are the ruination of America. There’s that other class of corruption — corporate chief executives, viewed by Sanders as banes of the country’s existence. “Greedy corporate CEOs,” he calls them, who “have rigged the tax code, killed market competition, and crushed the lives and powers of workers and communities across America.”

I’m acquainted with Marillyn Hewson, the chairman, president and CEO of Lockheed Martin, and Rosalind Brewer, Starbucks’s chief operating officer. These female executives never struck me as tax-riggers or market-killers.

This is the first time I heard that Merck chairman and CEO Kenneth Frazier, TIAA President and CEO Roger Ferguson, and Lowe’s CEO Marvin Ellison — three African American business leaders — might be crushing communities across the nation.

Rather, they all strike me as successes in the corporate world, as role models for women and folks of color who want entry to the executive suites of the Fortune 500. But then again, I have never thought of businesses that create jobs and pay wages as dens of inequity, although some are better than others. More glass ceilings need to be shattered. Corporate governance reforms are long overdue. Adjusting tax rates to ensure that corporations pay a fairer share of federal tax revenue and closing tax loopholes are absolutely essential.

And I wonder where an institution such as the Howard University School of Business, which is celebrating its 50th anniversary — and, for that matter, all business schools across the country — fit in a Bernie Sanders world. Business school programs are about preparing students for the world of commerce. Studying and finding solutions to business and management problems — global and locally — are what they do.

The existence of those schools is predicated upon the assumption that the private sector and markets are indispensable to the economy, that entrepreneurship is valued, that the profit motive is not sinful and that there is nothing immoral about wanting to exchange positions in the working class for success up the rungs of a corporate ladder.

I know there are those out there who buy the notion that America consists of a small class of privileged, rapacious super-rich lording over throngs of oppressed, capitalist-exploited workers. You can see it in poll numbers showing the share of Americans who prefer socialism to capitalism inching upward. Sanders would probably count that as success.

But most folks across the color, religious and social spectra who want to reduce deprivation and retain or improve their own economic status are not thirsting for a Sanders “revolution.”

Oprah Winfrey, Michael Jordan and company have no place in Bernie’s world. But would others in America seeking or enjoying economic empowerment truly be better off? Who wants to risk finding out?
I now await another divisive tirade from about how bad Sanders supporters are, because against all sanity and reason, you and many other Centrist Democrats seem to have a compulsive need to rehash 2016.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by Ralin »

The Romulan Republic wrote: 2020-03-08 01:07am
Also, are you seriously literally saying "All accusations made by anyone with Native American ancestry must be assumed to be true, regardless of evidence, or you're a racist?"

Here, let's turn this around. After all, we want to be consistent in calling out racism. Right?

"Yeah, it's not just unforgivable, but racist as fuck to deny accusations from a Jew."

That statement has every bit as much validity as your's. Unless you are arguing that the persecution of Jews is somehow less significant, or their grievances less valid, than those of Native Americans. Is that the case?
You do realize that he's riffing off of President Trump, right?

Also trolling.
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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Its admittedly hard to tell these days.


I will say something I rarely do, which is that FireNexus has a point about the possible effects of the coronavirus on the election. When you're reading mainstream medical experts and organizations talking about billions of infected and hundreds of thousands dead in the US alone, well...

Its a very real possibility that the candidates will all be hospitalized or dead before election day, especially as they fall in the high risk demographic (older, traveling a lot, constantly exposed to crowds, etc.).

Worse is how Trump is likely to use this, however. He's downplaying it now, but once it gets too bad to ignore...

Well, Italy has entire regions on lockdown right now, with prison time if you're caught violating the quarantine. If it gets that bad in America, and it probably will, soon, there is a very real possibility that the election could literally be cancelled. Or, since this is Trump, and he gives not a fuck about anything but himself, more likely they'll make up numbers, claim the outbreak is worst in blue or swing states, and shut the polling places down "to prevent spread of the disease" in those specific states. With prison time for anyone caught breaking quarantine (ie, trying to vote). Sure, there are mail ballots, but not every state has those.

So I'm increasingly wondering if nature is going to make fools of us all, and all this nasty, petty fighting over who the best nominee would be and whether they could beat Trump will ultimately be a moot point, either because the nominees will all be dead, or because there will be no election at all.

And at that point, I start to wonder if the question we should really be asking is less "Who would be the best candidate to win an election against Trump" and more "Who do we want leading us in the second civil war"? Because American capitalist society is simply not built to handle tens of millions of people not being able to work for weeks or months (not that any society really is), aside from any dictator crap Trump pulls.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by Ralin »

Trump seems like the least likely to have coronavirus issues, to be honest. Aside from him having access to the best healthcare possible, he's constantly monitored by extremely competent SS agents (we know they're competent because Obama is still alive) and is a known germaphobe. He's not anything like healthy, but he doesn't drink, smoke or use stairs. Which are all huge risk factors. His biggest known health issue (by which I mean stuff we can see from watching him on TV) is his weight, and the complications from that respond well to medicine.
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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Yeah, probably.

Plus Dickless has the Devil's own luck.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by The Romulan Republic »

An analysis of the current state of the race which, while acknowledging Biden's clear advantage, is quite fair to Sanders. Particularly of note is that, far from the usual narrative which argues that Sanders is losing because his campaign can't win over people of color, there is an argument here that Sanders is losing in part because his moves to the Left on immigration, which helped win over his strong Latino support in California, Nevada, and Texas, cost him with more conservative rural white voters who backed him in 2016.

https://vox.com/2020/3/7/21166643/berni ... rimary-map
Sen. Bernie Sanders faces an even bleaker situation today than when he was at an equivalent point running against Hillary Clinton in the 2016 primary.

After taking considerable criticism for leading an excessively white political movement four years ago, Sanders successfully built a more diverse base of support, particularly among Latino voters who helped carry him to victory in Nevada and California. But building that new base also cost him the support of a lot of rural white voters who will come into play in the coming contests.

Sanders is down delegates with his best big state, California, behind him. Biden, meanwhile, is expected to do well in Florida, a delegate monster. That map, combined with rule changes that eliminated superdelegates and drastically curtailed the number of caucuses, means Sanders has a tough road ahead.

The race is by no means over, but for Sanders to hope to prevail he needs to relatively quickly make changes to his campaign strategy before he falls hopelessly behind.

Sanders’s best state has already voted
We learned two key things on Super Tuesday.

One is that the “Tio Bernie” phenomenon is real, and many Latinos now favor Sanders. He likely won California thanks largely to Hispanic support, and while he ended up losing Texas he did very well in San Antonio, El Paso, and the Rio Grande Valley, counties where Hispanics are a majority.

The other is that Sanders’s support among socially conservative rural whites has evaporated. Part of winning his new Hispanic fan base has meant abandoning his previous immigration restrictionist tendencies. He’s also dropped his skepticism of gun control. And just as Clinton lost much of her cultural conservative support from 2008 when she had to run against a white person, it seems that with Sanders now matched up against Joe Biden, rather than a woman, he has lost the opportunity to pick up gender traditionalist voters.

This manifested itself on Tuesday in Sanders losing Maine, Oklahoma, and Minnesota (all of which he carried in 2016) even as California flipped from being a state he lost in 2016 to a potential win for him.

The problem is that there aren’t a ton more Latino votes that Sanders has a good chance of getting now that California, Texas, and Nevada have all voted. That’s especially true because all signs point to him being hideously unpopular in Florida. Arizona and New Mexico are still out there for the taking, but even combined they are still smaller than Florida.

By contrast, look at how the vote in Minnesota evolved over the past four years:

MisterElection and Tony Pat
Sanders, similarly, went from winning nearly every Oklahoma county in 2016 to losing all of them in 2020.

The weakness in these rural areas seems to suggest that Sanders will have difficulty replicating his 2016 wins in Midwestern states like Wisconsin, Michigan, and Indiana. In delegate terms, those two states plus Oklahoma and Minnesota are worth slightly less than his pickups in California. But the point is that California, which has about 10 percent of the total delegates, already voted, so Sanders’s strength there can’t give him any good news in the future.

A potentially demoralizing stretch is coming
In the immediate future, Sanders is looking at a March 10 map where he’s favored in the small states of Idaho and North Dakota, stands an excellent chance in Washington, but will likely be blown out in both Missouri and Mississippi. His campaign will try to once again win Michigan, but the state is likely to be close and thus not generate a significant delegate haul for either candidate. Biden’s strength in Missouri and Mississippi will increase his delegate lead.

Guam and the Northern Mariana Islands on March 14 might be more promising for Sanders, but then comes March 17. Arizona, which Sanders lost last time, should be a great pickup opportunity for him with his greater Hispanic support. But he lost Ohio and Illinois in 2016 and there’s no real reason to think he’s improved his standing there. And his Arizona delegate haul will be swamped by what’s all but certain to be an awful result in Florida.

Then comes Georgia, another large Southern state where will Biden will gain a bunch of delegates on March 24.

Mathematically, Sanders will still be in it at this point (clinching primaries is hard under Democrats’ proportional rules), but the question is whether he’ll be able to sustain the kind of optimistic narratives he did in 2016, which kept him in the race.

Bernie’s narrative-fueled 2016
Sanders pulled out a surprise win in Michigan on March 8, 2016. His odds of beating Clinton to take the nomination had never been great. But his upset victory raised the possibility that he had hidden strength in the industrial Midwest, and it buoyed the hopes of his supporters.

Just a week later, he lost Illinois, Ohio, and Missouri, showing that he was largely unable to break through in diverse states. Behind in delegates, the looming primaries in New York, New Jersey, and California — large, diverse states a lot more like Illinois than Michigan — would doom him, a fact that political insiders knew.

But Sanders managed to keep running anyway. He wasn’t reliant on politically savvy big donors. Instead, he was able to keep his army of small-dollar donors engaged and keep running. He did it in three ways:

First, he’d proven early an ability to drive media narratives that were detached from concrete delegate counts. On March 8, for example, Sanders conceded Mississippi (where he lost big) and focused attention on Michigan (where he narrowly won), thus generating a positive narrative even though he actually fell even further behind in the delegate hunt.

Second, because several big states had late primaries there were technically a lot of votes up for grabs in April, May, and even June. It was clear from the demographics that these states were too diverse to hand Sanders the kind of lopsided wins (indeed, he lost them all) he would need to catch up.

Third, because at the time many Democratic Convention delegates were unpledged and unelected “superdelegates,” Sanders’s camp was able to first accuse Clinton of relying on a rigged system to secure her majority and then to pivot to the idea that the race wasn’t really over because the superdelegates could and should swing it to her.

None of this changed the fact that he had failed to break through in Ohio and Illinois after an earlier poor performance in Texas and every state with a substantial black population besides Michigan. But because Sanders was still raising small money, running ads, holding rallies, and running races, Clinton had to keep spending money and campaigning too. This left her ultimately with less time and resources to spend against Trump, and in a close race likely contributed to her defeat.

Clinton fans have put forth a lot of basically bogus explanations for why her defeat was somehow secretly Sanders’s fault. (In fact, he campaigned for her extensively, and though some of his supporters voted for Trump in November, this is very normal and they did not do so in large numbers.) But the basic timing did hurt her.

Had Sanders withdrawn sooner, Clinton could have held more fundraisers in the spring while spending less money. That would have let her do more campaigning in the summer and less fundraising, and then spent more money on ads in the fall. Would that have been enough for her to win? Nobody really knows or ever will, but it seems plausible.

The 2020 process, however, looks different. There will be no superdelegate MacGuffin to fulminate against and no obvious source of near-term momentum.

Sanders is not exactly a die-hard party loyalist, and he has plenty of admirers who love his disregard for party unity and the larger spirit of cooperation. So it’s certainly possible he’ll be able to muddle through the March dry spell and make a real effort to contest the big clutch of Northeastern primaries held on April 28. But it’s also possible the wheels will simply come off in the wake of a series of consecutive drubbings.

If Sanders wants to actually win, rather than just hang around as an irritant, he needs to change the dynamics soon.

It’s not over yet
The good news for Sanders is that while Super Tuesday was a tremendous blow to his campaign, that’s essentially for reasons related to the map and the schedule.

Biden’s actual delegate lead at this point is modest. There’s an upcoming debate on March 15 where Sanders will get the chance to go at Biden one-on-one. Biden’s debate performances thus far have been lackluster at best, but he’s mostly come out okay thanks to having rarely been the target of sustained criticism. Sanders has a real shot to embarrass Biden on a stage where there will be no place to hide, both advancing an issues-based argument and implicitly undermining Biden’s electability case.

Supporters cheer for Sen. Bernie Sanders in Phoenix, Arizona, on March 5, 2020. Caitlin O’Hara/Getty Images
The Sanders campaign is also now making a pivot they should have made after winning New Hampshire and trying to appeal to mainstream Democrats and not just revolutionaries. That’s meant making an ad featuring Barack Obama and a renewed focus on disagreements with Biden over Social Security, Nafta, and the Iraq War — issues on which Sanders can claim more credibility in holding the mainstream Democratic position.

Unlike the previous focus on banning private health insurance and the virtues of Castro-era literacy programs, these are topics where it’s easy to imagine the majority of rank-and-file Democrats siding with Sanders. And if a little more talk about bread-and-butter issues and a little less talk about the finer points of democratic socialism can help bring some rural working-class white voters back into Sanders’s camp, he could reshape the map in a more favorable direction.

The point, however, is that he’s working on a much tighter time frame this time around with a coalition that was optimized for a state that has already voted. Sanders can still win if he changes the trajectory of the campaign, but he’s got to do it fast.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Another thing that hasn't changed since 2016 is that Sanders is the overwhelming favorite of younger voters. Which means that regardless of the results of this election, the party is going to continue to move to the Left. Even if we have to wait for most of the Boomers to die of old age, sooner or later, we're getting a socialist nominee, barring an absolutely massive shift in the attitudes of the 18-40 demographic (or Trump successfully creating a dictatorship and outlawing the party, in which case we'll get a socialist resistance movement instead).

Its a long way off, of course, but right now, the frontrunner for 2028 is Alexandria Ocasio Cortez.

Edit: Speaking of, AOC has confirmed she will support Biden if he wins the nomination:

https://newsweek.com/aoc-ocasio-cortez- ... 20-1490891

Contrast to Tulsi Gabbard, perhaps the most prominent Congressional supporter of Bernie Sanders in 2016, who IIRC dragged her feet on endorsing Clinton until August.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by Elfdart »

Darth Yan wrote: 2020-03-07 11:23pm
Elfdart wrote: 2020-03-07 09:53pmSpeaking of Gabbard, the nation owes her a debt of gratitude for kneecapping Kamala Harris.
She has ties with hindu extremists and anti muslim bigots and is a raving homophobe. One good act doesn't change that she's a piece of shit
In which case she'd be perfect as Joe Biden's VP.
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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by Elfdart »

Ralin wrote: 2020-03-08 01:30am
The Romulan Republic wrote: 2020-03-08 01:07am
Also, are you seriously literally saying "All accusations made by anyone with Native American ancestry must be assumed to be true, regardless of evidence, or you're a racist?"

Here, let's turn this around. After all, we want to be consistent in calling out racism. Right?

"Yeah, it's not just unforgivable, but racist as fuck to deny accusations from a Jew."

That statement has every bit as much validity as your's. Unless you are arguing that the persecution of Jews is somehow less significant, or their grievances less valid, than those of Native Americans. Is that the case?
You do realize that he's riffing off of President Trump, right?

Also trolling.
I was pointing out what a shameless character Warren is, moron. She spent much of her adult life trying to pass herself off as a Native American. When people started calling bullshit on this, she went to the trouble of taking a home DNA test that showed she might have had an indigenous ancestor between 6 and 10 generations ago. The fact that she jumped through these idiotic hoops because Scott Brown and later, Trump called her "Pocahontas" would be hilarious were it not so pathetic. But her performance in the debate (the one where she tried to kneecap Sanders -in collusion with a severely retarded CNN "journalist"- as a sexist failed in clownish fashion, got her feathers ruffled because Bernie refused to play along and rightly earned herself the snake emoji) was just as pitiful. Before her attempted hatchet-job on Sanders flopped, she claimed that she and Klobuchar were the only candidates to beat an incumbent Republican in the last 30 years. When Bernie corrected her by pointing out that he had also done it, she kept insisting that 1990 was more than 30 years ago.

The point is, Warren is weak and dishonest and when her campaign started to fizzle out, tried to stab in the back the one candidate who wasn't attacking her. No wonder she came in 3rd in her own state.
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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by Elfdart »

Mr Bean wrote: 2020-03-07 06:58pmBeing Vice President counted for a lot.
This, combined with the Democrats' habit of playing political Martyball, is the reason the biggest winner of last Tuesday's vote was Cheeto Mussolini. Every time the Dems nominate someone on the grounds that they were a loyal #2 or that they were more "electable", or that it's their turn, they choke in humiliating fashion:

Stevenson
Humphrey
Mondale
Dukakis
Gore
Kerry
Hillary

I've seen this movie before and I know how it ends.
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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by Darth Yan »

Elfdart wrote: 2020-03-08 01:10pm
Mr Bean wrote: 2020-03-07 06:58pmBeing Vice President counted for a lot.
This, combined with the Democrats' habit of playing political Martyball, is the reason the biggest winner of last Tuesday's vote was Cheeto Mussolini. Every time the Dems nominate someone on the grounds that they were a loyal #2 or that they were more "electable", or that it's their turn, they choke in humiliating fashion:

Stevenson
Humphrey
Mondale
Dukakis
Gore
Kerry
Hillary

I've seen this movie before and I know how it ends.
As unlikely as it is we’d better pray something different happens
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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Darth Yan wrote: 2020-03-08 02:33pm
Elfdart wrote: 2020-03-08 01:10pm
Mr Bean wrote: 2020-03-07 06:58pmBeing Vice President counted for a lot.
This, combined with the Democrats' habit of playing political Martyball, is the reason the biggest winner of last Tuesday's vote was Cheeto Mussolini. Every time the Dems nominate someone on the grounds that they were a loyal #2 or that they were more "electable", or that it's their turn, they choke in humiliating fashion:

Stevenson
Humphrey
Mondale
Dukakis
Gore
Kerry
Hillary

I've seen this movie before and I know how it ends.
As unlikely as it is we’d better pray something different happens
Hopefully turnout motivated by fear of Trump, and Trump's bungling of the coronavirus/the inevitable coming recession will turn the tide if it comes to that.

If not, our choices will be submission to dictatorship, or immediate revolution.

Edit: Of course, there's still the option of "Biden dies of coronavirus"/"Biden's senility becomes too blatant to smooth over" by the convention. I'm not petty or desperate enough to wish that on the man, aor on his loved ones, but given that there seems to be a real possibility of both, it is an argument for Bernie staying in, amassing as many delegates as possible, so that he can make the strongest possible case to be the nominee if Biden can't. Whereas if he drops out, and then Biden drops out, they can just pass him over for some Centrist stuffed suite.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Something to consider about Bernie's weakness in South Carolina and the South.

The Centrist Democratic narrative basically goes "Bernie can't win black voters! Bernie (implicitly or explicitly) is racist/running a racist campaign!" But while it might be closer, I'm not at all convinced that a black socialist who focussed on social justice would win the South, either. In fact, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't.

We know Bernie does at least somewhat better with younger black voters. There's some polling evidence that he does at least somewhat better with black people outside the South. We also know he does badly with older voters in general. And we know that many older Southern black voters, though overwhelmingly Democrats, tend to lean towards social conservatism on other issues, just like old white Southerners. So, has it occurred to anyone that maybe, just maybe, Bernie's admitted weakness in the South isn't just, or even predominantly, race?

Because when I see older Southerns refusing to vote for a socialist, I don't think "Obviously its because they're black!" I think "Gee, elderly southerners don't like a socialist. In other news, bears shit in the woods."

Its not like Bernie had soaring numbers among the Old Southern White Vote, either. So at least part of this is just Boomers being Boomers, and the South being the South.

The South: Ruining America since 1776.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by loomer »

I wonder. Have Biden, Sanders, and Warren ever commented on the idea of landbacks?
"Doctors keep their scalpels and other instruments handy, for emergencies. Keep your philosophy ready too—ready to understand heaven and earth. In everything you do, even the smallest thing, remember the chain that links them. Nothing earthly succeeds by ignoring heaven, nothing heavenly by ignoring the earth." M.A.A.A
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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by Knife »

I'm very interested, and worried, about the set up of White College Educated v Black Voter (they played up the fact it's not a block but it seems it is) v LatinX. All three groups, which seems important groups for Dems, don't agree with peeps. College Educ and the Black Vote seems aligned but not with LatinX vote.

The basic line is minorities vote is for Dems, but if LatinX don't get their way, will they stay with Democrats?
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong

But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Knife wrote: 2020-03-08 09:06pm I'm very interested, and worried, about the set up of White College Educated v Black Voter (they played up the fact it's not a block but it seems it is) v LatinX. All three groups, which seems important groups for Dems, don't agree with peeps. College Educ and the Black Vote seems aligned but not with LatinX vote.

The basic line is minorities vote is for Dems, but if LatinX don't get their way, will they stay with Democrats?
I doubt there will be huge defections to the Republicans while Donald "they're rapists and drug dealers" Trump is the defining figure of the party. But at the same time, its obviously not a block Democrats should take for granted.

But I don't think its a simple split along racial lines. The overriding demographic divide in the Democratic Party is not a racial divide, but a Boomers vs youth divide (the main ideological divide is of course corporatist Centrist vs progressive/socialist).
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by The Romulan Republic »

https://cnn.com/2020/03/08/politics/ber ... index.html
Washington (CNN)Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders and former Vice President Joe Biden are locked in a race for the Democratic presidential nomination as they head into another week of critical contests.

In a wide-ranging interview Sunday with CNN's Jake Tapper on "State of the Union," Sanders weighed in on a number of issues just two days before voters in half a dozen states, including the battleground state of Michigan, head to the polls to choose a candidate.
Here are six key moments from Sanders' interview on CNN.
What if Biden is the nominee?


Sanders: I fear very much if Biden is the candidate 01:57
Asked by Tapper about Biden's chances against President Donald Trump in industrial states if he's the Democratic nominee, Sanders said he believes the former vice president can beat Trump.
"And if Joe is the candidate, I'll do everything I can to make sure that he does (win)," Sanders said.
Sanders has said as much before, and Biden has also pledged to support the senator should he win the Democratic nomination.
Sanders would 'love' Warren's support


Sanders: We'd love to have Warren's support 01:14
Sanders told Tapper that he would "love" to have the backing of Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren, a progressive Democrat whose policy positions were in some ways similar to Sanders.' Warren, who dropped her own bid for the nomination last week, has not yet endorsed a candidate.
"Well, I'm not going to speculate. We would love to have Sen. Warren's support and we would love to have the millions of people who supported Sen. Warren in her campaign on board," Sanders said.
Biden is also hopeful that Warren will endorse him as the Democratic candidate, as it would further his goal of coalescing the party around him.
The importance of Michigan


Sanders: Michigan is an enormously important state 01:16
Sanders, who is campaigning in Michigan on Sunday -- which he won during his 2016 bid -- called the battleground state "enormously important."
"We're working as hard as we can because Michigan is very, very significant in terms of the primary process. We hope to repeat the victory we had in 2016," he said, adding later that he thinks his proposed agenda will help him claim another victory in the state.
Michigan has been the focus of Democrats this election cycle. The once-reliably blue state went to Trump in 2016, but has since shown signs that Democrats could win it back as part of their effort to rebuild the "blue wall" that had crumbled four years ago.
Sexism in the 2020 race


Sanders: Sexism was hurdle for 2020 Dem candidates 01:30
Following Warren's departure from the field, as well as Minnesota Sen. Amy Klobuchar's exit last week, questions have swirled about how sexism in the country has impacted a contest that once saw six women vying for the nomination.
For Sanders, he's certain that sexism is a challenge for women candidates.
"The short answer is yes, I do (think sexism is a hurdle for Democratic women running for president)," Sanders told Tapper after being asked about the issue. "I think women have obstacles placed in front of them that men do not have."
The senator said progress has been made in terms of gender representation in Congress, but that the country still has work to do on this front.
"We have got to get rid of all of the vestiges of sexism that exist in this country, which is still pretty rampant," Sanders said.
Avoiding travel due to coronavirus


Sanders: 'Maybe' I'd avoid travel in ideal world 02:02
Tapper asked Sanders during Sunday's interview about the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's recently issued guidance encouraging older people and people with severe chronic medical conditions to "stay at home as much as possible."
"You, President Trump, Vice President Biden, you're all older Americans," Tapper said to Sanders, 78. "Do you think that all three of you should be limiting your travel and avoiding crowds?"
"Well, in the best of all possible worlds, maybe. But right now we're running as hard as we can," Sanders replied.
Sanders is attending two rallies in Michigan Sunday ahead of Tuesday's primary.
'Disgusting' act


Bernie Sanders addresses swastika at campaign rally 01:25
Sanders said during the interview that a Nazi flag unfurled by a man at a rally of his last week was an "unspeakable" and "disgusting" act.
On Thursday, a man was kicked out of the rally after he showed a flag with a swastika on it. Members of the audience ripped the flag from the individual's hand, and the individual was quickly removed by security.
"It is something -- I got to tell you, I never expected in my life, as an American, to see a swastika at a major political rally. It's horrible," Sander said Sunday.
If elected, Sanders would be America's first Jewish president. His extended family from Poland was killed in the Holocaust during World War II.
Reg. Coronavirus, if you watch the video, Sanders does say that he's not yet cancelling rallies, but also says that his campaign is in contact with local health authorities, and will not endanger public safety.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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