The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

[Ralin]

Let's face it, the sort of person who'd treat the implication that we're in the current mess because China wasn't sufficiently on the ball as a valid reason to go find the nearest vaguely Asian-looking person and beat the crap out of them was actively looking for an excuse anyway.

Which is not an excuse to encourage them by normalizing their bullshit. There are always fence-sitters who might or might not go along with the racists who are all-in.

[mr friendly guy]

Lets play a game.

In regards to covid 19
The US blames China.
The EU blames ...

a. China
b. aliens
c. Russia (for disinformation campaign).

I bet you though, there will not be many racist attacks against Russians. Which while a good thing also displays some double standards we have here.

[Mr Bean]

Well my entire job has shifted to work from home, we just got the first surveys back from clients and some of them talk to each other and figured out we (the techs) were primary transmission vectors. If you've got a little plastic bead plant out in the boonies or a refinery down by the coast the last thing you want is an out of state tech driving up who's been to 4 other plants in the last 4 days showing up licking your doornobs and feeling up your machines.

Or so they seem to all assume as we went from best friends to Lepers in the span of 72 hours now we have to have a clean bill of heath to show up except we can't get COVID testing any better than anyone else so there's an official unless plants are on fire don't let outsiders come in. All upgrades, all scheduled maintenance even required government testing is on 30 day hiatus for now.

[aerius]

Lets play a game.

In regards to covid 19
The US blames China.
The EU blames ...

a. China
b. aliens
c. Russia (for disinformation campaign).

I bet you though, there will not be many racist attacks against Russians. Which while a good thing also displays some double standards we have here.

I got nothing. Human stupidity truly is limitless.

[madd0ct0r]

It is not that difficult to build a bot or two that track very pro USA debunker accounts, some like TrR in levels of prolific and outrage.
When the debunkers find a story, say some wild claim that the virus is a result of us egg washing practice s and post it to debunk it, that flags the story to the botnet and the botnet then boosts the story in many places, no human intervention required.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

It's been announced that in the UK, schools will be closed from the end of this week and exams are cancelled. And since Sixth form colleges and Universities have entry requirements, they haven't worked out all the details.

[chimericoncogene]

Let's face it, the sort of person who'd treat the implication that we're in the current mess because China wasn't sufficiently on the ball as a valid reason to go find the nearest vaguely Asian-looking person and beat the crap out of them was actively looking for an excuse anyway.

Agreed. On a side note, I am of the opinion that the Seattle outbreak demonstrates once and for all that China was on the ball.

The first case (nobody knew SARS-2 existed back then) has been traced by some researchers (SCMP) to mid-November.
The docs in Wuhan picked up on SARS-2 at around Christmastime, 5-6 weeks later (that's the whistleblower), in the middle of flu season (never easy to pick up a new bug in that overload). One week of local government ass-covering later (which also includes the time to write the reports, do the studies, nail down the details, etc.), the WHO had a full report.

The local government cost everyone at most one week of time, and probably less.

It took "until" Jan 14 for sequencing and confirmation that COVID-19 was human-to-human. Yes, before mid-Jan, a man would have bet 50-50 that it was a purely zoonotic illness. I've been following this more-or-less closely. On Jan 21, the first test kits rolled out, and by Jan 24, the Central Government was sure there were a thousand test+ve cases in Wuhan. They locked the whole city down, and the province soon after that, buying the world (I would guess) about four weeks of serious prep time. In the middle of the Chinese equivalent of the Christmas holiday season. Twenty-eight days from first warning to execute.

The Seattle outbreak spread undetected between mid-January and late February. Another 6-week gap between occult spread and detection by medical authorities, even with at least strategic warning that COVID-19 existed (some sources go so far as to declare that Jan 1 in Wuhan was March 1 in Seattle). After that, even with a clear understanding of the pathogen, the US government took another two weeks of foot dragging to implement a massive response, and is only now, approximately 2-3 weeks after the start of the outbreak in Seattle, looking like it's getting its act together.

Neither the US response, nor the European response, despite strategic warning, prep time, and technical intelligence, was substantially faster or more effective than the Chinese one. While yes, a more competent provincial government might have bought a few days to a week... on the whole, the system worked as well as any other. The Koreans and Japanese, on the other hand, appear to have been very fast, and leveraged warning and test kits for all it was worth.

https://bedford.io/blog/ncov-cryptic-transmission/

[Vendetta]

Neither the US response, nor the European response, despite strategic warning, prep time, and technical intelligence, was substantially faster or more effective than the Chinese one. While yes, a more competent provincial government might have bought a few days to a week... on the whole, the system worked as well as any other. The Koreans and Japanese, on the other hand, appear to have been very fast, and leveraged warning and test kits for all it was worth.

https://bedford.io/blog/ncov-cryptic-transmission/

Places that had to for-real deal with SARS had an effective structural response and executed it.

Places that didn't acted as if it couldn't happen here.

[TimothyC]

The Ohio National Guard has been activated to assist food banks in designated counties: Allen (Lima, and the Lima Tank Plant), Butler (Cincinnati), Clark (Springfield), Cuyahoga (Cleveland), Franklin (Columbus), Hamilton (Cincinnati), Hocking, Lorain (Cleveland), Lucas (Toledo), Mahoning (Youngstown), Montgomery (Dayton), & Summit (Cleveland). All have confirmed cases except for Allen, which is home to the Lima Tank Plant. Not all counties with confirmed cases are are on the list however. Ashland, Belmont, Coshocton, Darke, Delaware, Geauga, Huron, Lake, Medina, Miami, Richland, Stark, Trumbull, & Tuscarawas

https://twitter.com/GovMikeDeWine/statu ... 8344715265

[Sky Captain]

To be fair, Mr friendly guy, the search results that come up for "Serbia China" are all about Serbia stating the EU is useless in the crisis and only China can help, so I'm not sure there's any positive benefit to underplaying the help sent article.

It's not like any other EU country has surplus medical equipment. France, Spain, Germany and many smaller countries are soon going to face similar situation as Italy. With production of almost everything outsourced to China no surprise there. China probably is only country which has capacity to quickly produce large amounts of medical gear and has spread of virus under control.

Some Chinese companies are getting in on the act of making masks. And when I say some Chinese companies, I mean companies which aren't in the business of making medical masks or medical gear in general. For example, the electric car and electric battery maker BYD. Their masks appear to be similar to what we wear in hospital and not the N95 variety, ie simpler to make. During the height of the outbreak, China also converted unused factories designed for other things to manufacture masks. I am sure Europe can have empty land for factories. I can only make a wild guess that it must be the raw materials required to make masks that Europe lacks.

One small company in Latvia started to make surgical masks few days ago however they have to order base materials from China to ramp up production, I guess other countries may have similar situation that they have companies who can make masks, but lack the materials in sufficient quantities. A surgical mask is nothing special, a clothes factory should be able to make those easily.
Anyway a simple surgical mask will not prevent inhalation of virus particles although if a person is infected and coughing/sneezing it will limit the spread of infected droplets so there is some benefit. To really prevent infection you need full face mask that seals hermetically to face with breathing filters and also covers eyes. Ideally a full HAZMAT suit to be really sure.

Neither the US response, nor the European response, despite strategic warning, prep time, and technical intelligence, was substantially faster or more effective than the Chinese one. While yes, a more competent provincial government might have bought a few days to a week... on the whole, the system worked as well as any other. The Koreans and Japanese, on the other hand, appear to have been very fast, and leveraged warning and test kits for all it was worth.

https://bedford.io/blog/ncov-cryptic-transmission/

Places that had to for-real deal with SARS had an effective structural response and executed it.

Places that didn't acted as if it couldn't happen here.

Problem is nearly everyone initially thought this is going to be similar to SARS and MERS. Some spreading in a country of origin and some nearby countries and nothing much beyond that. Initially when outbreak was raging only in China it looked that way because it took some time for imported cases to start spreading virus enough to establish clearly identifiable and growing local transmission. On top of that many young people get it in a very mild form having nothing more than some coughing and sneezing or even no symptoms at all. They are perfect virus spreaders because they don't feel ill enough to stay at home.

[Broomstick]

Tempers are starting flare.

Too many customers not cooperating with the new spacing requirements. Too many old people. Too many people on supplemental oxygen - WTF? Deniers. Complainers. Bitchers about item limits.

Case number starting to spike upwards in both Chicago and my county.

Next week's schedule gives all of us 10 more hours a week to be in the place. 8-10 hours days six days a week.

One of my co-workers was taken away in an ambulance today. Not the covid virus. Suspected heart attack. She's in her 30's.

[bilateralrope]

Public transport in Wellington and Auckland is going to stop accepting cash.

Most regular passengers would have switched to other payment methods a while ago, so not much of a change for them. But anyone who needs to use it suddenly (say, due to their car getting hit) is going to have problems or be forced to take a taxi.

[ray245]

Problem is nearly everyone initially thought this is going to be similar to SARS and MERS. Some spreading in a country of origin and some nearby countries and nothing much beyond that. Initially when outbreak was raging only in China it looked that way because it took some time for imported cases to start spreading virus enough to establish clearly identifiable and growing local transmission. On top of that many young people get it in a very mild form having nothing more than some coughing and sneezing or even no symptoms at all. They are perfect virus spreaders because they don't feel ill enough to stay at home.

This is why I am a little peeved with even some of the leading experts in the field. They help and created a sense of complacency when you absolutely cannot afford to. Taiwan is perhaps the least complacent government and they've by and large managed to contain the virus pretty well.

Rejecting the worse case scenario is dangerous because you are essentially hoping the virus won't spread in a dangerous and containable manner.

[MKSheppard]

State Department has basically gone to level 4 for planet earth

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel ... issue.html

Global Level 4 Health Advisory – Do Not Travel
Global Health Advisory
March 19, 2020

Level 4: Do Not Travel

The Department of State advises U.S. citizens to avoid all international travel due to the global impact of COVID-19. In countries where commercial departure options remain available, U.S. citizens who live in the United States should arrange for immediate return to the United States, unless they are prepared to remain abroad for an indefinite period. U.S. citizens who live abroad should avoid all international travel. Many countries are experiencing COVID-19 outbreaks and implementing travel restrictions and mandatory quarantines, closing borders, and prohibiting non-citizens from entry with little advance notice. Airlines have cancelled many international flights and several cruise operators have suspended operations or cancelled trips. If you choose to travel internationally, your travel plans may be severely disrupted, and you may be forced to remain outside of the United States for an indefinite timeframe.

[MKSheppard]

[mr friendly guy]

In Australia GPs can now bill for phone consults for people who might be at risk for covid 19 and don't want to come to the practice. For example if you're elderly you're trying to do social distancing etc. So I can write a script, give test results over the phone, you can have a relative pick up the script for you etc.

Of course there is going to be misunderstanding or rorting of the system. I already had a call where someone wanted a script for a relative who wasn't willing to come because of psychiatric issues. While I understand such patients don't want to come to a practice, they don't really fit the criteria for what this is new system is supposed to do, protect those at risk from covid from needing to come into wider society and run the risk of exposure. Psych patients aren't at greater risk, patients with other chronic conditions are.

[MKSheppard]

https://www.pennlive.com/news/2020/03/a ... -wolf.html

Wolf orders shutdown of all non-essential businesses in Pennsylvania

Gov. Wolf orders all non-life-sustaining businesses to close physical locations in Pa.
Updated 7:47 PM; Today 5:06 PM

By Daniel Urie | durie@pennlive.com

Gov. Tom Wolf has ordered all non-life-sustaining businesses in Pennsylvania to close their physical locations as of 8 p.m. today to slow the spread of COVID-19.

Enforcement actions against businesses that don’t comply will begin at 12:01 a.m. Saturday, March 21, according to the governor’s office.

The order, effective immediately and to remain in effect until further notice, states:

“No person or entity shall operate a place of business in the Commonwealth that is not a life sustaining business regardless of whether the business is open to members of the public. This prohibition does not apply to virtual or telework operations (e.g., work from home), so long as social distancing and other mitigation measures are followed in such operations.”

“Life sustaining businesses may remain open, but they must follow, at a minimum, the social distancing practices and other mitigation measures defined by the Centers for Disease Control to protect workers and patrons.”

In extenuating circumstances, special exemptions will be granted to businesses that are supplying or servicing health care providers.

Food establishments that do carry-out, delivery and drive-through service can continue so long as measures are put in place to keep patrons and workers safe.

A list of what are and are not life-sustaining businesses can be found below:

[SNIP]

“To protect the health and safety of all Pennsylvanians, we need to take more aggressive mitigation actions,” said Wolf. “This virus is an invisible danger that could be present everywhere. We need to act with the strength we use against any other severe threat. And, we need to act now before the illness spreads more widely.”

The governor has directed the following state agencies and local officials to enforce the closure orders to the full extent of the law:

Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board
Department of Health
Department of Agriculture
Pennsylvania State Police
Local officials, using their resources to enforce closure orders within their jurisdictions

Non-compliant businesses or groups that fail or refuse to comply with the order will forfeit their ability to receive any applicable disaster relief and could be subject to other administrative action, according to the governor’s office. That action could include citations, fines, or license suspensions.

In addition, the Department of Health is authorized to prosecute those who fail to comply with health laws, including quarantine, isolation or other disease control measures. Violators are subject to fines or imprisonment.

The Department of Community and Economic Development is offering loans to aid businesses impacted by the coronavirus. A list of resources will be posted to the DCED website as they become available. Gov. Wolf’s administration also announced the availability of small-business loans for all of Pennsylvania via the U.S. Small Business Administration.

(You can find more information about the small-business loans and how to apply by clicking here.)

Anyone with questions is encouraged to contact the DCED at ra-dcedcs@pa.gov or 1-877-PA-HEALTH, select option 1.

The governor had previously encouraged non-life-sustaining businesses to close to mitigate the spread of COVID-19. Restaurants and bars were already required to stop all dine-in services.

COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA
OFFICE OF THE GOVERNOR

ORDER OF
THE GOVERNOR OF THE COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA REGARDING THE
CLOSURE OF ALL BUSINESSES THAT ARE NOT LIFE SUSTAINING

WHEREAS, the World Health Organization and the Centers for Disease Control and
Prevention (“CDC”) have declared a novel coronavirus (“COVID-19”) a “public health
emergency of international concern,” and the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services
(“HHS”) Secretary has declared that COVID-19 creates a public health emergency; and

WHEREAS, as of March 6, 2020, I proclaimed the existence of a disaster emergency
throughout the Commonwealth pursuant to 35 Pa. C.S. § 7301(c); and

WHEREAS, I am charged with the responsibility to address dangers facing the
Commonwealth of Pennsylvania that result from disasters. 35 Pa. C.S. § 7301(a); and

WHEREAS, in addition to general powers, during a disaster emergency I am authorized
specifically to control ingress and egress to and from a disaster area and the movement of
persons within it and the occupancy of premises therein; and suspend or limit the sale,
dispensing, or transportation of alcoholic beverages, firearms, and combustibles. 35 Pa. C.S. §
7301(f); and

WHEREAS, in executing the extraordinary powers outlined above, I am further authorized
during a disaster emergency to issue, amend and rescind executive orders, proclamations and
regulations and those directives shall have the force and effect of law. 35 Pa. C.S. § 7301(b);
and

WHEREAS, in addition to my authority, my Secretary of Health has the authority to
determine and employ the most efficient and practical means for the prevention and suppression
of disease. 71 P.S. § 532(a), 71 P.S. 1403(a); and

WHEREAS, these means include isolation, quarantine, and any other control measure
needed. 35 P.S. § 521.5.

NOW THEREFORE, pursuant to the authority vested in me and my Administration by the
laws of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, I do hereby ORDER and PROCLAIM as follows:

Section 1: Prohibition on Operation of Businesses that are not Life Sustaining
All prior orders and guidance regarding business closures are hereby superseded.

No person or entity shall operate a place of business in the Commonwealth that is not a
life sustaining business regardless of whether the business is open to members of the public.

This prohibition does not apply to virtual or telework operations (e.g., work from home), so long
as social distancing and other mitigation measures are followed in such operations.

Life sustaining businesses may remain open, but they must follow, at a minimum, the
social distancing practices and other mitigation measures defined by the Centers for Disease
Control to protect workers and patrons. A list of life sustaining businesses that may remain
open is attached to and incorporated into this Order.

Enforcement actions will be taken against non-life sustaining businesses that are out of
compliance effective March 21, 2020, at 12:01 a.m.

Section 2: Prohibition on Dine-In Facilities including Restaurants and Bars

All restaurants and bars previously have been ordered to close their dine-in facilities to
help stop the spread of COVID-19.

Businesses that offer carry-out, delivery, and drive-through food and beverage service
may continue, so long as social distancing and other mitigation measures are employed to
protect workers and patrons. Enforcement actions will be taken against businesses that are out
of compliance effective March 19, 2020, at 8 p.m.

Section 3: Effective Date and Duration

This order is effective immediately and will remain in effect until further notice.

GIVEN under my hand and the Seal of the
Governor, at the city of Harrisburg, on this
nineteenth day of March two thousand twenty, the
year of the commonwealth the two hundred and
forty-fourth.
TOM WOLF
Governor

[MKSheppard]

Here's PA's list:

https://htv-prod-media.s3.amazonaws.com ... 653124.pdf

[mr friendly guy]

Looked at one of my covid trackers this morning, and oh shit.
https://dash-coronavirus-2020.herokuapp.com/

Italy now has more deaths than China despite having like what, 1 /23 the population. Their fatality rate is greater 8%. We can speculate about whether they had the S strain or the more deadly L strain of the virus, but I think the big factor is their health system is simply being overwhelmed. I am sure people can do the maths and work out with 40-70% of the population estimated to catch the coronavirus, then work out a fatality rate varying from 2-8% and work out number of lives saved if we can just "flatten the curve," and spread it out. It doesn't help that its flu season over for you guys in the Northern Hemisphere.

The EU has reported more cases (not active cases, more total cases) than China has.

On another note I am stocked up in case Scott Morrison asks us to self isolate ourselves. Now that numerous Western countries are doing it, I think its a bit easier for us to do it. Before it was just draconian China and we would never do that. Although 2 days ago, news.com.au (supposedly Australia's most widely read newsite) was still saying quarantines don't work, but social distancing does. Apparently the former is authoritarian and the latter is not, although I am pretty sure covid 19 doesn't give a shit about your political ideology. Lets see if ScoMo follows advice from experts and not journalists.

[Nicholas]

The first case of COVID-19 was reported in the county where I live today. All that has been said is that the person infected is self isolating. The county health department added that 80% of people who contract COVID-19 will get a mild to moderate illness and most of them do not need to be tested or see a doctor.

It does make me wonder. Just what percentage of US residents have the material and psychological resources to effectively self isolate for as long as it will take for them to stop being capable of spreading COVID-19? Sending them home seems like a guarantee that anyone who lives with them is going to get it as might anyone who helps care for them. I can't see this working as a means of eliminating this virus although it will help flatten the curve.

Nicholas

[bilateralrope]

Gamestop has declared itself essential and refuses to close during lockdowns:

GameStop: We Can Stay Open During Lockdowns Because We're 'Essential Retail'

Jason Schreier
Mar 20, 2020, 7:03am

The struggling video game retail chain GameStop told all of its stores this afternoon to stay open even in the event of state or city lockdowns to protect against the covid-19 pandemic, emphasising that it is “essential retail” alongside groceries and pharmacies and should therefore be exempt from enforced closures.

“Due to the products we carry that enable and enhance our customers’ experience in working from home, we believe GameStop is classified as essential retail and therefore is able to remain open during this time,” the retailer said in a memo to staff this afternoon, obtained by Kotaku.

“We have received reports of local authorities visiting stores in an attempt to enforce closure despite our classification. Store Managers are approved to provide the document linked below to law enforcement as needed.”

The document in question encourages police officers to call GameStop’s corporate headquarters if they have a problem with this policy.

The retailer said later this afternoon that it would be reducing hours, postponing all events, and suspending used game trade-ins until March 29.

Meanwhile, GameStop employees all across the United States have feared for their safety in the wake of the company’s misguided responses to the covid-19 crisis. “Been with company almost a decade,” one told Kotaku this afternoon. “This is indefensible.”

Lets see who gets arrested over this bit of greed.

[MKSheppard]

Something you might want to invest in is a blood pulse oxiometer.

Because the Northern Hemisphere is just coming out of flu season and now entering allergy season with blooming plants, it's really hard to tell if it's allergies or COVID-19, since many symptoms overlap, and testing in the US is completely fucked.

I'm having to medicate with allegra every morning just to stay somewhat functional, this mild winter in the DC area has caused early allergies.

Being able to see if your blood pulse oximetry is 97-98% is a good sign.

Basically:

Healthy Person: 94-100% SpO2 saturation
You need Oxygen support at less than 93% SpO2 saturation (Call for help)

[Dominus Atheos]

The governor of California is expecting half of his population to get covid 19 over the next 8 weeks?

Ok, mild panic time.

[mr friendly guy]

Healthy Person: 94-100% SpO2 saturation
You need Oxygen support at less than 93% SpO2 saturation (Call for help)

A good battery powered one cost me $80 AUD, and I have been using it for the past 2 years. To elaborate on what you said, the oxygen Hb dissociation curve is roughly S shape.

https://vivadifferences.com/wp-content/ ... ure-10.png

So going from 100 to 94 %, you're still at the top of the curve, so the oxygen in Hb isn't that much difference. Once you go below 93, 92% the oxygen in Hb drops dramatically (you can see the image I linked to above).

That being said, be careful if you live in high altitudes, because your sats can be low, especially if you aren't a native and are not use to it. I injured myself in Ecuador and when I went to hospital they stuck a pulse oximeter on me and my sats were low.

[chimericoncogene]

This is why I am a little peeved with even some of the leading experts in the field. They help and created a sense of complacency when you absolutely cannot afford to. Taiwan is perhaps the least complacent government and they've by and large managed to contain the virus pretty well.

Rejecting the worse case scenario is dangerous because you are essentially hoping the virus won't spread in a dangerous and containable manner.

Uhh... it was clear to me (and I presume everyone) that this was waaay worse than SARS by Jan 20, when HKU estimated 20-40,000 infected-but-still-asymptomatic in Hubei Province, an order of magnitude more people than SARS managed to infect in a year.

That week (Jan 20-27) was when Asian governments started panicking/acting, and everyone started doing things that were never done in SARS, like forbid (14-d quarantine if you've been there) travel to China, quarantine entire cities, and lock down cities (no going out!) in the middle of a major holiday. The actions taken were by no means a carbon copy of the SARS response - if anything, they were substantially stricter. I don't recall a mandatory government shutdown and business work-from-home in the middle of the SARS outbreak, although the tech didn't permit it back then.