The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by Dominus Atheos »

MKSheppard wrote: 2020-03-18 04:37pm The Imperial College (London, UK) COVID-19 response team has published a report titled “Impact of non-pharmaceutical interventions (NPIs) to reduce COVID19 mortality and healthcare demand”

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperi ... 3-2020.pdf

which has more detailed in-depth breakdowns of the age susceptibility factors for COVID-19.

They are:

Image

Meanwhile, Italy today had a fatality rate of 475 from COVID; where in a typical flu season in Italy, IIRC about 24-36~ die each day.
So this chart, what does "require hospitalization" vs "require critical care" mean?

What percentage of the "require hospitalization" group are going to die if they don't receive any professional medical care? Just the "require critical care" portion or more than that?
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

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From another board
SitRep Richmond, VA:

Just off the phone with an ICU nurse at large Regional Hospital:

- 24 of 24 ICU beds now full with presumptive cases
- 10 of 10 isolation rooms full with presumptive cases
- Many on vent, including (1) 30yr old with no co-morbidity
- Staff mood is somber, PPE is locked up and limited but stable for now
- None expected this to happen as quickly as it has

She's off till Monday, and isn't planning to answer the phone for a call-in.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

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Dominus Atheos wrote: 2020-03-19 09:12pmWhat percentage of the "require hospitalization" group are going to die if they don't receive any professional medical care? Just the "require critical care" portion or more than that?
Require Critical Care Portion, basically. You need a ventilator at that point.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

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PHOENIX (3TV/CBS 5) - Gov. Doug Ducey made some major moves on Thursday to combat the spread of the coronavirus in Arizona.

He activated the National Guard to help out grocery stores and food banks with high demand. Ducey issued an executive order that stops all elective surgeries in the state to "free up medical resources and maintain the capacity for hospitals." The order also requires restaurants in counties with a confirmed case of the coronavirus to provide only dine-out options, closes bars, movie theaters and gyms. Restaurants will also be allowed to deliver alcohol to customers with a food purchase. Also, part of Ducey's order was delaying expiration dates on Arizona driver's licenses.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

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Liquor Sales Booming via another board:
I do distributor sales (99% beer) for a living and what we are seeing is completely ridiculous. Being in various accounts and seeing how much has sold is blowing our minds. We have been doing off-day deliveries all week just to refill the stores.

Every day feels like the day before the 4th of July with how packed the stores are with customers and the volume we are cranking out.

Problem is that we are literally running out of product in or warehouses. We have product on the water right now from WA but we did those projections months ago. And once those boats get here, we aren't going to have anything behind them for a while.

The store managers have been saying all week the best three words a salesman can hear: "Load it up."

I just dropped over 2200cs in my largest store yesterday and I'm dropping another 600 tomorrow to get through the weekend. This is about twice compared to say a hot July week about 4x a typical March week. Plus our bars are closed.

If the distributors in your area get their beer brewery direct you may be okay but for the others that dont, expect booze shortages.
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"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

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https://www.foxla.com/news/glendora-man ... ida-report
LOS ANGELES - A Glendora man who died just days ago after testing positive for COVID-19 recently visited Walt Disney World and Universal Studios in Florida, it was reported Thursday.

In a Facebook post, family members of Jeffrey Ghazarian, 34, said he died Thursday morning at a Pasadena hospital after being hospitalized for several days, according to TMZ.

His family stated he had a history of asthma and frequent bronchitis as a child. He also had beat testicular cancer back in 2016, which made him a higher risk for contracting coronavirus.

According to TMZ, his sister stated, "He suffered a lot and put up a good fight. We will miss our Jeff every day but we are thankful for all the fun happy memories of the times we had together."

According to his family, Ghazarian flew from Los Angeles to Orlando on March 2 for a work conference. During his time in Orlando, he went to Disney World and Universal theme parks with friends.

TMZ reported that Ghazarian began to develop a cough on March 7 and the next day he coughed up blood.

He returned to Los Angeles International Airport on March 9 and immediately went to the emergency room, where he also had a high fever.

TMZ reports that medical personnel performed a chest x-ray and confirmed that Ghazarian had pneumonia. He was reportedly tested for COVID-19 before he was sent home with antibiotics and fluids and was instructed to self-quarantine while he awaited the results.

He found out he tested positive for coronavirus on March 13, TMZ reported. The next day he was taken to the hospital by ambulance and quickly transferred to the ICU. At which point, doctors discovered that his lungs were 60-70 percent blocked with pneumonia.

Doctors chose to sedate and intubate him in hopes that using a ventilator would help his lungs heal.

Ghazarian passed away Thursday morning.
:wtf: So he's all coughing up blood, decides to get onto a plane and fly home instead of going to a local ER in Florida? :wtf:
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by mr friendly guy »

Dominus Atheos wrote: 2020-03-19 09:12pm
So this chart, what does "require hospitalization" vs "require critical care" mean?
Generally the term means require an ICU bed as opposed to a regular hospital bed. In my experience a regular hospital bed can provide you with oxygen supplementation, observation, give antibiotics (if you develop a secondary bacterial infection) etc. Some may be able to give you non invasive pressure ventilation like a CPAP or BiPAP machine, ie you're still conscious and the machine supplements your breathing.

A critical care bed can provide you with intubation and ventilation ie the machine does 100% of the breathing for you and you are unconscious in a medically induce coma. ICU can do superior monitoring like putting in central lines, having one nurse per patient instead of 1 nurse per 2 or 4 patients, and provide inotropic support (ie give medications to boost your blood pressure up if it drops) and can do ECMO if they have enough machines.

Basically in hospital, when a patient gets too sick for the regular ward, we go a a HDU (level just lower than ICU) or ICU. Naturally, most hospital beds are not critical care beds.
Last edited by mr friendly guy on 2020-03-19 09:24pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

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https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus- ... l-11960597
Coronavirus: 'They call it the apocalypse' - inside Italy's hardest-hit hospital

The sheer numbers of people succumbing to the coronavirus is overwhelming every hospital in northern Italy.

Stuart Ramsay - Chief correspondent
Chief correspondent @ramsaysky

Thursday 19 March 2020 23:13, UK

Staff frantically wave us out of the way, pushing gurneys carrying men and women on mobile respirators, it's not chaos but it is hectic.

They rush past wards already rammed with beds all filled with people in terrible distress; gasping for air, clutching at their chests and at tubes pumping oxygen into their oxygen-starved lungs.

I'm in the main hospital in Bergamo, the hardest-hit hospital in Italy in the hardest-hit town in the hardest-hit province, Lombardy - and it's just plain scary.

Masked, gloved and in a hazmat suit, my team and I are led through corridors full of gasping people who look terribly ill.

I ask what ward I am in.

"This isn't really a ward, it's a waiting room, we just have to use every bit of space," my guide, Vanna Toninelli, head of the hospital press office tells me.

The medical teams are fighting a war here and they are losing.

The sheer numbers of people succumbing to the coronavirus is overwhelming every hospital in northern Italy, it could easily overwhelm the rest of the country as well.

The staff are working flat out trying to keep their patients from deteriorating further. They are trying to stop them from dying.

In groups they crowd around the latest patients. Attaching monitors, drips and most importantly respirators. Without them the patients will simply go downhill fast.

Really fast. Deadly fast.

It looks like an intensive care unit (ICU) but it is actually just an emergency arrivals ward. The ICU is full. The people being treated are new arrivals, but they look far worse than that.

Anywhere else in the world they would be intensive care cases but here, to qualify, you are actually on the point of death, not just gravely ill.

In this pandemic gravely ill is considered a reasonable position. It really is that bad.

The arrival of people here is an absolute constant. This killer pandemic is virtually out of control.

We have all heard what has been going on here, but no journalist has been allowed in here to see it, until now.

The city of Bergamo invited us in to show everyone what a catastrophic emergency, that nobody has ever experienced before, looks like.

They want you to see it. They want the world's population to question their own governments' responses.

Because there can be no excuse anymore that nobody knew. Italy did not. Now everyone else does.It looks like an intensive care unit (ICU) but it is actually just an emergency arrivals ward. The ICU is full. The people being treated are new arrivals, but they look far worse than that.

Anywhere else in the world they would be intensive care cases but here, to qualify, you are actually on the point of death, not just gravely ill.

In this pandemic gravely ill is considered a reasonable position. It really is that bad.

The arrival of people here is an absolute constant. This killer pandemic is virtually out of control.

We have all heard what has been going on here, but no journalist has been allowed in here to see it, until now.

The city of Bergamo invited us in to show everyone what a catastrophic emergency, that nobody has ever experienced before, looks like.

They want you to see it. They want the world's population to question their own governments' responses.

Because there can be no excuse anymore that nobody knew. Italy did not. Now everyone else does.

Through plastic bubbles that fit over the heads of the most ill, staff struggle to communicate with patients.

The weak can barely speak and above the noise of the ward and the constant bleep of heart monitors and breathing pumps, it's almost impossible to make out what they are saying.

The bubbles are attempting to equalise the air pressure in the lungs.

Nobody expected this, nobody even imagined they would be treating so many so quickly.

And for the record, it is NOT like flu, it is more often than not chronic pneumonia and it is killing hundreds here each day.

The head of emergency care, Dr Roberto Cosentini, says they have never seen anything like it, and he and his staff are warning other countries, especially the UK, that they will see it soon.

"It's a very severe pneumonia, and so it's a massive strain for every health system, because we see every day 50-60 patients who come to our emergency department with pneumonia, and most of them are so severe they need very high volumes of oxygen.

"And so we had to reorganise our emergency room and our hospital [to] three levels of intensive care."

The Papa Giovanni XXII hospital is one of the most advanced in Europe, but even this gleaming mega hospital is on its knees.

Bergamo is the absolute centre of this epidemic and the hospital is attempting to deal with a crisis that was never imagined.

Many of the medical staff have worked or trained in the UK. Dr Lorenzo Grazioli worked in Leicester for a year.

He says his friends have been ringing him constantly to get a sense of what it is like. He told me they are bracing themselves for the same and are very worried.

He, like every other doctor and nurse I spoke to, urged the UK to follow the example of China and Italy, and lock down everything straight away.

It is, they say, the only way to slow the virus down: not beat it, slow it.

"I have never felt so stressed in my life, I'm an intensivist, and I am quite used to intense moments, and the choices, and people are critical and die without any treatment, and you [usually] make the difference," he told me.

"But when you are at this point you realise that you are not enough.

"We are 100 anaesthetists, we are doing our best, but maybe it's not enough."

In labs, staff are continuously testing for the virus and attempting to find something that can beat it. They say it's a long way off.

The problem facing health services across the world is that when the infection curve goes up it rockets, and all resources, all testing, all supplies are used up instantly. Multiple hospitals all making the same demands at the same time.

It's crippling - here they call it the apocalypse.

Bergamo wanted us to see this, as I have said, and they want to send a simple message: "Get ready".
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"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

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Right now, I'm pretty stressed:

Brother is "it's just the flu bro" and is all like "it only kills old people" -- I don't even think he's taken precautionary moves like buying extra food. If he shows up when quarantine is declared because he has no food at his place, I'm gonna rip him a new one.

Mother is slightly on board, but she keeps doing stupid stuff like going out to thrift stores (she's 60+, morbidly obese AND diabetic) since she's on furlough from her job as a school nurse. She also can't understand why we have to ration food, and keeps wanting to eat preps -- she's still in the mindset of "oh, I can just go to the store and get more food" -- what happens if you go to the store and there's NO FOOD?

She doesn't seem to want to believe there may be a quarantine in place within a week's time; and can't understand that what we have in our pantry is it for the forseeable future -- if you open your good food NOW, you have to eat it now before it spoils, and can't save it for say, week 3 or 4 of quarantine.

I did a brief shopping run at a local Giant after work today. Some shelves were slowly being restocked, but entire areas were pretty hard hit -- the milk section was pretty thin and the prepared meats section was still completely wiped out.

My dad is slightly on board, I had to keep bugging him to make some preps, but he managed to get them.
Last edited by MKSheppard on 2020-03-19 09:31pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by Zaune »

MKSheppard wrote: 2020-03-19 09:19pm :wtf: So he's all coughing up blood, decides to get onto a plane and fly home instead of going to a local ER in Florida? :wtf:
Maybe the local ER was out-of-network for his insurance coverage.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

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california

state wide order to stay at home beginning tonight.

Not yet mandatory, still voluntary
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

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MKSheppard wrote: 2020-03-19 09:58pm california

state wide order to stay at home beginning tonight.

Not yet mandatory, still voluntary
Pennsylvania Governor Wolf shut down all non-life-sustaining businesses which translates to the following
  • Beer distributors
    Grocery stores
    General merch (Walmart/Target)
    Car repair
    Gas
    Building supply
    Pharmacies
    Restaurants (serving takeout only)
    Home delivery (FedEx/Amazon/etc.)
Beyond that everything else should be shut down and day by day the Governor is pushing back on individual stores like for example Gamestop declaring itself essential retail


It's still a fairly broad list since your Target, CVS, Walmart, Home Depot, local Grocery store but everything from Dog Grooming to Thrift stores are supposed to be shutting their doors. No big fines just naming and shaming so far.

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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

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Republican Senator and Chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee Richard Burr (R NC) appears to have engaged in insider trading- engaging in a massive sell-off of stock after receiving briefings on coronavirus, and warning his rich buddies about the threat, while assuring the public that everything was under control:

https://propublica.org/article/senator- ... eparedness
ProPublica is a nonprofit newsroom that investigates abuses of power. Sign up to receive our biggest stories as soon as they’re published.

Soon after he offered public assurances that the government was ready to battle the coronavirus, the powerful chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Richard Burr, sold off a significant percentage of his stocks, unloading between $628,000 and $1.72 million of his holdings on Feb. 13 in 33 separate transactions.

As the head of the intelligence committee, Burr, a North Carolina Republican, has access to the government’s most highly classified information about threats to America’s security. His committee was receiving daily coronavirus briefings around this time, according to a Reuters story.

A week after Burr’s sales, the stock market began a sharp decline and has lost about 30% since.

On Thursday, Burr came under fire after NPR obtained a secret recording from Feb. 27, in which the lawmaker gave a VIP group at an exclusive social club a much more dire preview of the economic impact of the coronavirus than what he had told the public.

Help Us Report on Coronavirus
Are you a public health worker, medical provider, elected official, patient or other COVID-19 expert? Help make sure our journalism is responsible and focused on the right issues.

“Senator Burr filed a financial disclosure form for personal transactions made several weeks before the U.S. and financial markets showed signs of volatility due to the growing coronavirus outbreak,” his spokesperson said. “As the situation continues to evolve daily, he has been deeply concerned by the steep and sudden toll this pandemic is taking on our economy.”

Burr is not a particularly wealthy member of the Senate: Roll Call estimated his net worth at $1.7 million in 2018, indicating that the February sales significantly shaped his financial fortunes and spared him from some of the pain that many Americans are now facing.

He was one of the authors of the Pandemic and All-Hazards Preparedness Act, which shapes the nation’s response to public health threats like the coronavirus. Burr’s office did not respond to requests for comment about what sort of briefing materials, if any, on the coronavirus threat Burr may have seen as chair of the intelligence committee before his selling spree.

According to the NPR report, Burr told attendees of the luncheon held at the Capitol Hill Club: “There’s one thing that I can tell you about this: It is much more aggressive in its transmission than anything that we have seen in recent history ... It is probably more akin to the 1918 pandemic.”

He warned that companies might have to curtail their employees’ travel, that schools could close and that the military might be mobilized to compensate for overwhelmed hospitals.

The luncheon was organized by the Tar Heel Circle, a club for businesses and organizations in North Carolina that are charged up to $10,000 for membership and are promised “interaction with top leaders and staff from Congress, the administration, and the private sector.”

Burr’s public comments had been considerably less dire. In a Feb. 7 op-ed that he co-authored with another senator, he assured the public that “the United States today is better prepared than ever before to face emerging public health threats, like the coronavirus.” He wrote, “No matter the outbreak or threat, Congress and the federal government have been vigilant in identifying gaps in its readiness efforts and improving its response capabilities.”

Are Hospitals Near Me Ready for Coronavirus? Here Are Nine Different Scenarios.
How soon regions run out of hospital beds depends on how fast the novel coronavirus spreads and how many open beds they had to begin with. Here’s a look at the whole country. You can also search for your region.

Members of Congress are required by law to disclose their securities transactions.

Burr was one of just three senators who in 2012 opposed the bill that explicitly barred lawmakers and their staff from using nonpublic information for trades and required regular disclosure of those trades. In opposing the bill, Burr argued at the time that insider trading laws already applied to members of Congress. President Barack Obama signed the bill, known as the STOCK Act, that year.

Stock transactions of lawmakers are reported in ranges. Burr’s Feb. 13 selling spree was his largest stock selling day of at least the past 14 months, according to a ProPublica review of Senate records. Unlike his typical disclosure reports, which are a mix of sales and purchases, all of the transactions were sales.

His biggest sales included companies that are among the most vulnerable to an economic slowdown. He dumped up to $150,000 worth of shares of Wyndham Hotels and Resorts, a chain based in the United States that has lost two-thirds of its value. And he sold up to $100,000 of shares of Extended Stay America, an economy hospitality chain. Shares of that company are now worth less than half of what they did at the time Burr sold.

The assets come from accounts that are held by Burr, belong to his spouse or are jointly held.

Correction, March 19, 2020: This story about Sen. Richard Burr’s stock sales originally misstated the amount and the number of transactions. Burr sold between $628,000 and $1.72 million in 33 separate transactions, not between $582,029 and $1.56 million of his holdings in 29 separate transactions.

Do you have access to information about the coming corporate and economic bailouts that should be public? Email Robert at robert.faturechi@propublica.org or reach him on Signal/WhatsApp at 213-271-7217. Here’s how to send tips and documents to ProPublica securely.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by Dominus Atheos »

mr friendly guy wrote: 2020-03-19 09:20pm
Dominus Atheos wrote: 2020-03-19 09:12pm
So this chart, what does "require hospitalization" vs "require critical care" mean?
Generally the term means require an ICU bed as opposed to a regular hospital bed. In my experience a regular hospital bed can provide you with oxygen supplementation, observation, give antibiotics (if you develop a secondary bacterial infection) etc. Some may be able to give you non invasive pressure ventilation like a CPAP or BiPAP machine, ie you're still conscious and the machine supplements your breathing.

A critical care bed can provide you with intubation and ventilation ie the machine does 100% of the breathing for you and you are unconscious in a medically induce coma. ICU can do superior monitoring like putting in central lines, having one nurse per patient instead of 1 nurse per 2 or 4 patients, and provide inotropic support (ie give medications to boost your blood pressure up if it drops) and can do ECMO if they have enough machines.

Basically in hospital, when a patient gets too sick for the regular ward, we go a a HDU (level just lower than ICU) or ICU. Naturally, most hospital beds are not critical care beds.
I understand that part, my question is "will any regular ward patients die if there are no more regular ward beds (or HDU or ICU or anything)?" Before it gets to the point of ventilation, what does just "require hospitalization" mean when there are 26 million sick people and even 1 percent of those "require hospitalization" but don't "require critical care", do any of just "require hospitalization" patients die?
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

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Mnuchin announces US aid plan to give every American adult 1,000 dollars, 500 per child, within the next three weeks- and do it again if Trump's state of emergency declaration continues six weeks later.

https://cnbc.com/2020/03/19/coronavirus ... -kids.html
“The first one would be $1,000 per person, $500 per child,” Mnuchin said. “So for a family of four, that’s a $3,000 payment.”

“As soon as Congress passes this, we get this out in three weeks. And then, six weeks later, if the president still has a national emergency, we’ll deliver another $3,000,” Mnuchin said.

The Trump administration’s proposal comes as stocks continue to fall, jobless claims start to rise and the number of Americans infected with or killed by the COVID-19 virus continues to expand.

Mnuchin said the White House’s plan would also allocate $300 billion for small businesses, noting that “there will be loan forgiveness” for employees who keep their workers on the payroll. $200 billion would also be used for “more facilities” with the Federal Reserve, as well as secured lending to airlines and other critical industries being strangled by the crisis.

The administration’s plan may face opposition on Capitol Hill, however. Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., argued on the floor of his chamber Wednesday that sending one-or-two-time checks would not provide enough to support people who lose their jobs.

Schumer suggested instead that providing expanded and “beefed-up” unemployment insurance would cover Americans “for a much longer time and would provide a much bigger safety net.”

Mnuchin has spoken with Schumer multiple times over the past few days.

President Donald Trump has already approved multiple emergency aid packages aimed at slowing the spread of the virus and helping Americans who could lose their jobs or otherwise be affected. An increasing number of cities and states have banned large gatherings of people and have forced many businesses to limit their services, sparking fears that mass unemployment could follow.

Earlier this month, the president signed into law an $8.3 billion bill that sailed through Congress with near-unanimous support. On Wednesday, Trump signed an additional $100 billion package that includes provisions for emergency paid leave for workers as well as free testing for the deadly virus.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Holy Fuck! The coronavirus recession got REPUBLICANS to support a law capping executive pay:

https://cnbc.com/2020/03/19/coronavirus ... 25000.html
Executives at companies that would receive bailout cash from the coronavirus-relief bill unveiled by Senate Republicans on Thursday would see their annual compensation capped at $425,000 for two years.

The legislation would also allow the government a chance to make money off its investments in these firms.

Under the proposal, the American airline industry would receive $50 billion, cargo air carriers would get $8 billion, and other ailing industries would get $150 billion. The money for cargo air carriers was an addition to the White House’s original proposal, a person familiar with the situation told CNBC.

Senate Republicans now must negotiate the terms of the final bill with their Democratic counterparts, as well as with lawmakers in the Democratic-controlled House.

According to the measure, no executive at a company receiving money may make more than $425,000 in total annual compensation for two years, retroactive to March 1.

Company employees whose salary has already been determined through collective bargaining agreement may be exempt from that restriction. That likely applies to the union workers at companies accepting aid.

Politicians on both sides of the aisle have acknowledged a need to offer aid to industries like the airlines, for fear their fall would eliminate jobs for thousands of workers. But Democrats have warned against any corporate aid that appears to be lining the pockets of executives. Republicans have worried about the appearance of flagrant spending.

“We are not talking about a taxpayer-funded cushion for companies that made mistakes,” said Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell earlier Thursday on the Senate floor.

“We are talking about loans, which must be repaid, for American employers whom the government itself is temporarily crushing for the sake of public health,” he said.

Governments from the federal to the local level have called on people to practice social distancing and avoid unnecessary travel from their homes in a bid to limit exposure to the coronavirus and slow the pace of its spread. In turn, airlines have slashed capacity dramatically, and the hospitality industry has seen business plummet.

Layoffs have already started to spike, according to unemployment claim data released Thursday. The worst is likely yet to come.

The bill also states the government has right to “participate in the gains” of businesses to which it is lending. That could be through warrants, stock options, common or preferred stock, or other equity tools.

President Donald Trump said Thursday he would consider taking an equity stake in companies accepting federal aid, a move that would ultimately dilute shareholders. Trump didn’t specify which companies he was referring to but called out those that have bought back stock. Delta, American, Southwest and United airlines have collectively spent about $39 billion over the last five years buying back shares.

Democrats have said they may push for more restrictions, like forbidding stock buybacks. Trump himself said he would be “OK” with such a stipulation.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., and Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., said in a joint statement: “Any economic stimulus proposal must include new, strong and strict provisions that prioritize and protect workers, such as banning the recipient companies from buying back stock, rewarding executives, and laying off workers.”

Airlines for America, a lobbying group that represents U.S. airlines including Delta, American, United and Southwest, earlier this week issued a dire warning about the industry, saying its “survival” depends on government aid. The group originally requested $25 billion in direct grants and another $25 billion in loans.

The hotel and tourism industry, meantime, has requested $150 billion in direct grants.

Trump himself owns several hotels and resorts.

-CNBC’s Leslie Josephs contributed to this report.
Meanwhile, Democratic Senators Klobuchar and Wyden have introduced a bill to guarantee mail ballots for all American voters in November:

https://thehill.com/policy/technology/4 ... ing-during
A group of Democratic senators led by Sens. Amy Klobuchar (D-Minn.) and Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) introduced legislation on Wednesday to promote mail-in and early voting to decrease the spread of the coronavirus.

The Natural Disaster and Emergency Ballot Act (NDEBA) would ensure voters have 20 days of early voting in all states, require that all mail-in ballots submitted during 21 days leading to an election be counted, and ensure that all voters have the option to request absentee ballots.

The legislation would also provide $3 million to the Election Assistance Commission (EAC) to begin implementing some of the bill’s requirements, along with reimbursing states for doing the same.

Both Klobuchar and Wyden pointed to recently delayed primaries in Ohio, Kentucky, Louisiana, Georgia, and Maryland because of coronavirus fears in emphasizing the need to utilize mail-in ballots.

In-person voting dropped in Florida, Arizona and Illinois on Tuesday, when the states held their primaries.

Klobuchar, who serves as the top Democrat on the elections-focused Senate Rules Committee, said in a statement that Americans are facing “unprecedented disruptions to their daily lives” and pushed for providing them voting options during national emergencies.

“As Congress prepares to provide states with medical and economic relief, we should also act swiftly to pass my legislation to ensure that every American has a safe way to participate in our democracy during a national emergency,” Klobuchar said.

Wyden said in a separate statement that “if Ohio, Louisiana, Georgia, Maryland and Kentucky had vote by mail on the books years ago, they wouldn't have had to postpone their elections. This bill will give our country the highest chance of avoiding delayed elections and ensure Americans can exercise their Constitutional rights. No one should have to put their health at risk to vote.”

Klobuchar and Wyden previously penned an op-ed in The Washington Post promoting the introduction of the new bill, pointing to the mounting number of Americans who have contracted the coronavirus as illustrating the need for changes in how Americans vote.

More than a dozen other Democratic senators are co-sponsoring the legislation, including Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) and former candidates Sen. Kamala Harris (D-Calif.) and Sen. Cory Booker (D-N.J.).

However, at least one Republican has already voiced his opposition to the bill.

Rep. Rodney Davis (R-Ill.), the ranking member of the House Administration Committee, came out against the legislation in a statement on Wednesday, citing concerns around taking away election authority from states.

"While I appreciate the Senators’ efforts, imposing additional constraints on states from the federal government is the opposite of what we should be doing right now,” Davis said. “Most states have already integrated these methods of voting, and we don't know how long it would take the rest of the country to be able to successfully implement these programs. We should not be pushing through unnecessary policies in a time of emergency.”

Davis noted, however, that he was supporting efforts to give more election funding to the EAC to distribute to states “in the upcoming months.”

“This will allow states to improve the administration of elections, including covering costs associated with absentee voting and vote by mail, extending no-excuse absentee, and reimbursing for poll worker recruitment and training,” Davis said. “I hope we work across the aisle in Congress to accomplish this mission and ensure that states are prepared to deal with COVID-19 and keep their elections running smoothly and securely.”

The EAC has taken steps to help states to prevent the spread of the coronavirus at the polls this week. The agency told states in a notice on Tuesday that they would be allowed to use funds from the more than $800 million appropriated by Congress for election security efforts since 2018 to purchase cleaning supplies, masks and other necessities to fight the coronavirus.
This crisis is forcing a lot of changes that we really should have made a long time ago. Its fucking awful that it happened this way, but isn't that almost always the way of it? Humans as a species are generally very good at improvising and coming together and thinking outside the box was something because an immediate crisis- we're not so great at doing it before.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by His Divine Shadow »

The Romulan Republic wrote: 2020-03-20 12:00am Republican Senator and Chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee Richard Burr (R NC) appears to have engaged in insider trading- engaging in a massive sell-off of stock after receiving briefings on coronavirus, and warning his rich buddies about the threat, while assuring the public that everything was under control:
https://twitter.com/TwinklingTania/stat ... 7087770624
According to stock sales disclosures by Senators after a closed door briefing on January 24 about the Coronavirus threat, the following senators sold stocks:

Senator Richard Burr
Senator Kelly Loefner
Senator Dianne Feinstein,
Senator Ron Johnson
Senator Jim Inhofe
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by The Romulan Republic »

They should also be investigated by the FBI.

I'm glad there aren't more Democrats on the list, but Dianne Feinstein is rapidly moving up the list of people I want primaried.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by The Romulan Republic »

I'm not the only one who fears that the closing of borders might be more permanent than temporary:

https://theglobeandmail.com/politics/ar ... from-this/#_=_
In the 1930s, the United States raised tariffs on goods coming in from Canada, which retaliated with new tariffs of its own, worsening and lengthening the Great Depression for both countries. Wednesday, in an effort to limit the spread of the coronavirus, President Donald Trump and Prime Minister Justin Trudeau agreed to partially close the Canada-U.S. border, which likewise will worsen and lengthen the mutual economic damage from the pandemic.

Walls, once up, don’t easily come down. In the long run, the most lasting harm from this pandemic could be the closing of borders, the closing of minds.

There are good public-health reasons for keeping foreigners out when a country is trying to control the spread of a disease. The Trudeau government and Trump administration deserve praise for co-operating to limit the harm by exempting crossings that are essential to trade and commerce.

But these restrictions will make for a stickier border. They will make it more cumbersome to do business, weakening supply chains. Restrictions restrict, often in ways that no one intended.

The big difference between the banking crisis of 2008 and today’s economic emergency is that the United States under George W. Bush was a reasonably open society, while Donald Trump has been banning foreigners and raising tariffs and building walls since the day he was inaugurated.

The American president is not alone. China this week ordered journalists from several major American news organizations to leave the county. The regime in Beijing grows more hostile and isolated as criticism mounts of how it handled the initial outbreak.

The members of the European Union sealed their borders against each other and the rest of the world for public health reasons. But nativist fear of the Other has been spreading there for years, contributing to Britain’s decision to leave the EU altogether.

The COVID-19 attack accelerates the ongoing weakening of globalization, which some see as a good thing. For them, this pandemic is simply the latest evil of modernity. “COVID-19 is but a modest emergency compared to what’s coming in our crowded, mobile, just-in-time delivered era of hyper-globalization,” the journalist Andrew Nikiforuk wrote in The Tyee.

Even defenders of open borders wonder whether the world order built up over the past seven decades will survive the combined ills of the pandemic and the Trump administration.

“This pandemic is reshaping the geopolitics of globalization, but the United States isn’t adapting,” the American political scientists Henry Farrell and Abraham Newman wrote this week in Foreign Affairs magazine. “Instead, it’s sick and hiding under the covers.”

STORY CONTINUES BELOW ADVERTISEMENT



But to replace the free flow of goods, people and ideas with beggar-thy-neighbour barriers would be a global tragedy.

The number of people living in extreme poverty declined from 44 per cent of the human population in 1981 to 8.6 per cent in 2018, according the World Bank. That’s globalization.

Last year, for the second year in a row, as many girls as boys sat the primary-school graduation exams in Kenya (and achieved a higher average score). That’s globalization.

Last year as well, Taiwan became the first place in Asia to legalize same-sex marriage. That’s globalization.

And globalization is both a reason for and result of a world that has avoided a global war for three quarters of a century.

When this pandemic ends, will the walls come down? Or will governments find it easier and more popular to continue restricting the entry of foreigners? Will they decide to become more self-sufficient, even if economic isolationism leaves everyone poorer and less innovative?

Will the Canada-U.S. border reopen? Or will this President or his successor decide to repatriate factories and raise tariffs? It took every effort of the Trudeau government to preserve and renew the North American free trade agreement that the Trump administration was threatening to scrap. Will that effort turn out to have been a waste of time?

Canada is a trading nation, a nation of immigrants, a nation open to the world. When this pandemic ends, we should lead the world in tearing down walls – internal as well as external – and championing the greatest possible openness among economies and peoples.

The alternative is a return to the insular, frightened planet of the 1930s. And that we must avoid at any cost.
While I will not shed a tear for the death of unfettered global capitalism, globalization is more than just that. Its the exchange of ideas, its international cooperation on problems of global concern which require global responses, its freedom of movement. What I would hope is that we can preserve the merits of globalization while moving beyond the age of capitalism, rather than lumping them all together and embracing fascistic isolationism.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by Broomstick »

Nicholas wrote: 2020-03-19 08:20pmIt does make me wonder. Just what percentage of US residents have the material and psychological resources to effectively self isolate for as long as it will take for them to stop being capable of spreading COVID-19?
A very good question.

There are 18 occupied units in the apartment building I live in. Of all those people, only two currently have a job to go to: myself, and the guy who works in a medical testing lab. The apartments are small, one and two bedroom, and some of them have 6 or 7 people living in them.

I anticipate hearing domestic disputes on a fairly regular basis. I just hope no one starts shooting.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by mr friendly guy »

Dominus Atheos wrote: 2020-03-20 12:16am

I understand that part, my question is "will any regular ward patients die if there are no more regular ward beds (or HDU or ICU or anything)?" Before it gets to the point of ventilation, what does just "require hospitalization" mean when there are 26 million sick people and even 1 percent of those "require hospitalization" but don't "require critical care", do any of just "require hospitalization" patients die?

Will any regular ward patients die if there are no more regular ward beds (or HDU or ICU or anything)?"
1. Given that the deterioration occurs after a few days, I can imagine regular ward patients needing HDU/ICU beds. And if there are no beds and they can't create more, or move a patient who is improving out of ICU, then yeah I imagine they will palliate. As to the second part of your question, whether there are no more regular ward beds, I imagine some requiring hospitalisation might be able to tough it out at home, but if they deteriorate we are back to the same problem of lack of critical care beds.

Before it gets to the point of ventilation, what does just "require hospitalization" mean when there are 26 million sick people and even 1 percent of those "require hospitalization" but don't "require critical care"

2. Hospitals will have their own admission criteria for patients. But as a broad rule, if you think they could deteriorate / they need observation in case they deteriorate then admit them to be on the safe side. This may change with the lack of beds.

If you're asking for very specific things to look for, there are protocols for severity in pneumonia, which I am sure can be adapted to covid. Signs to look out for are age > than a certain age, (65 for some protocols), confusion, increase respiration rate, low blood pressure, and raised blood urea, low oxygen saturations etc. If you don't match these, you could potentially be followed up in an outpatient clinic and not admitted.

Keep in mind, I am no longer in the hospital system (thank goodness) so I am not sure of what protocols doctors there have been instructed to use.

3. Do any of just "require hospitalization" patients die?

Possible if they deteriorate to the require critical care bed stage. If they don't get treatment while in the "just require hospitalisation" stage, they might very well deteriorate to the require critical care bed stage.

Hopefully this helps.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by ray245 »

chimericoncogene wrote: 2020-03-19 09:07pm Uhh... it was clear to me (and I presume everyone) that this was waaay worse than SARS by Jan 20, when HKU estimated 20-40,000 infected-but-still-asymptomatic in Hubei Province, an order of magnitude more people than SARS managed to infect in a year.

That week (Jan 20-27) was when Asian governments started panicking/acting, and everyone started doing things that were never done in SARS, like forbid (14-d quarantine if you've been there) travel to China, quarantine entire cities, and lock down cities (no going out!) in the middle of a major holiday. The actions taken were by no means a carbon copy of the SARS response - if anything, they were substantially stricter. I don't recall a mandatory government shutdown and business work-from-home in the middle of the SARS outbreak, although the tech didn't permit it back then.
There was repeated statement by the Singaporean government that they think the chances of asymptomatic transmissions is low and unlikely, despite some reports warning about it. While listening to the alarmist reports might not be the most sound scientific principle, you cannot lose much by being safe than sorry in a epidemic outbreak.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by Elheru Aran »

This might be illuminating:

Someone I know from Facebook has been sick for a 'while' (I'm assuming about a week or so) with flu-like symptoms. Their GP sent them to be tested for coronavirus yesterday.

They are now under at least a six day quarantine, up to fourteen days, pending test results.

They won't know the results for a WEEK.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by Lord Revan »

Elheru Aran wrote: 2020-03-20 09:44am This might be illuminating:

Someone I know from Facebook has been sick for a 'while' (I'm assuming about a week or so) with flu-like symptoms. Their GP sent them to be tested for coronavirus yesterday.

They are now under at least a six day quarantine, up to fourteen days, pending test results.

They won't know the results for a WEEK.
Some countries were woefully underprepared for the amount of testing needed, including my own (as in the country I live in, I don't actually own any countries as far as I know ;) )
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by bilateralrope »

New Zealand is up to 53 cases, including two where no link to overseas travel was found. So we have community transmission.
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