M1A1 Lost with all hands...

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-04-01 01:43pm

A sniper took the driver of a Marine Corps M1A1 out as the
tank was crossing a bridge, and the now driver-less tank
ran off the bridge and landed turret-down in the river.

The other three crewmembers are feared dead; all drowned.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-04-01 01:49pm

They should have left the hatch on the bottom, even if it does reduce mine protection. Though if the river was more then a few feet deep it wouldn't matter.

meNNis · Post by **meNNis** » 2003-04-01 02:24pm

link please

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2003-04-01 02:24pm

Oh fuck dying like this is probably one of the most horrible ways.

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2003-04-01 02:39pm

I have the impression its a bad April fool joke

Pu-239 · Post by **Pu-239** » 2003-04-01 02:42pm

Montcalm wrote:I have the impression its a bad April fool joke

Duh. He didn't post the article, so it's obviously fabricated. Kind of ignomius way to die anyways.

Not funny shep.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-04-01 02:42pm

Montcalm wrote:I have the impression its a bad April fool joke

*shoots Montcalm*

Nope. I read it in my paper this morning. Vympel posted it earlier in the
Breaking News Thread

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-04-01 02:43pm

http://ad.doubleclick.net/adi/reutersne ... ord=27266?

Ted · Post by **Ted** » 2003-04-01 02:47pm

Pu-239 wrote:Duh. He didn't post the article, so it's obviously fabricated. Kind of ignomius way to die anyways.

Not funny shep.

It was on CNN last night.

Pu-239 · Post by **Pu-239** » 2003-04-01 02:53pm

Ted wrote:
Pu-239 wrote:Duh. He didn't post the article, so it's obviously fabricated. Kind of ignomius way to die anyways.

Not funny shep.
It was on CNN last night.

Don't have cable.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-04-01 03:09pm

GrandAdmiralPrawn wrote:Link doesn't bring me to an article. You sure this ain't BS?

I screwed up with the url

http://dailynews.att.net/cgi-bin/news?e ... raqtankdc#

U.S. Tank Falls in Euphrates; Four Marines Dead

Updated 3:43 PM ET March 31, 2003

AS SAYLIYA CAMP, Qatar (Reuters) - A U.S. tank carrying four U.S. Marines plunged from a bridge into the Euphrates River last week after the driver was killed in combat, apparently causing the other three crewmen to drown, U.S. military officials said on Monday.

The incident occurred on March 27 near the town of Nassiriya in southern Iraq, but the tank and the dead Marines were not pulled from the river until Sunday, U.S. Central Command said in a statement from its battle headquarters in Qatar.

Central Command said the tank driver was shot and killed while crossing a bridge and the M1A1 tank toppled into the river, landing upside down.

The other three crew were believed to have drowned, it said.

The statement did not name the river, but U.S. military personnel near Nassiriya, which has been the scene of heavy fighting since early in the 12- day-old war, told Reuters it was the Euphrates.

They said the incident occurred during a heavy sandstorm.

The names of the Marines were being withheld pending notification of their families.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2003-04-01 03:09pm

GrandAdmiralPrawn wrote:Link doesn't bring me to an article. You sure this ain't BS?

i dunno admiral, but i'm throwing you and the rest of these tasty prawns on the barbie! home-cookin'!

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2003-04-01 03:09pm

I checked on cnn.com to find the story and all i found is a funny jet airplane went off the flightdeck story.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-04-01 03:11pm

The Marines have M1-A1's?? I thought they used lighter tanks like M-60's?

Ted · Post by **Ted** » 2003-04-01 03:12pm

Stravo wrote:The Marines have M1-A1's?? I thought they used lighter tanks like M-60's?

I think they got rid of them a few years ago, getting the Army's old M1A1's.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-04-01 04:07pm

Stravo wrote:The Marines have M1-A1's?? I thought they used lighter tanks like M-60's?

No, not a single regular M60 is in service with the US Armed forces, only bridging, combat engineer and some recovery models remain. Reserve and NG units are also all M1's, and most war reserve M60's have been sold off for the cost of delivery or been scrapped or used as reefs.

The Marines began receiving M1A1's in 1989 IIRC, though they only had a battalion or so for Desert Storm, the British seventh armored brigade and later the US Armies Tiger Brigade provided modern armor support during Desert Shield and Desert Storm respectively. By 1996 all Marine Corps active and reserve tank units had the M1A1 and propositioned stocks had had them added in place of M60's as well.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-04-01 04:20pm

Considering the Marines role as a rapid deployment force I find it odd that they utilize a tank that is nortorious to deliver because of its weight. Then again I could just be badly informed. I'm glad they have the M-1 I just thought it kind of conflicted with their role as light to medium infantry.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-04-01 04:25pm

Stravo wrote:Considering the Marines role as a rapid deployment force I find it odd that they utilize a tank that is nortorious to deliver because of its weight. Then again I could just be badly informed. I'm glad they have the M-1 I just thought it kind of conflicted with their role as light to medium infantry.

Its hard to deploy, using aircraft. Shipping the things is easy. Now guess what the Marines MEU's which have a four tank platoon, and there prepositioned squadrons which have a 30 tank battalion deploy with.....

Post by **Beowulf** » 2003-04-01 05:10pm

one question: why was the driver able to have been taken out by a sniper? He should have had his hatch closed...

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-04-01 05:50pm

Beowulf wrote:one question: why was the driver able to have been taken out by a sniper? He should have had his hatch closed...

No, tank crews generally keep the hatches open and there heads out for greatly improved vision until they come under significant fire. Now combined that with vision blocks being even more worthless in a sand storm. The gunner and commander at least have a fairly good field of view through the thermal sight.

As inaccurate as it is in some many ways, Operation Flashpoint does do a good job of modeling the vision you get buttoned up in a tank or APC.

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2003-04-01 08:11pm

I read today they are not really sure if the driver was shot or not. Also there was a group of Marines working under the bridge that saw the splash, but did not see the tank itself land in the water. It seems for a little while nobody knew what happened.

What a horrible way to go. Even with a hatch at the bottom, the impact might have knocked them all senseless, my understanding is the tank landed upside down.

We will find out more later I suppose.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-04-01 08:25pm

Maybe, maybe not. If the water was shallow enough someone might have been able to jump down. The Euphrates is fairly wide, but extremely shallow. My dad described people actually wading all the way across in Baghdad.

Though the river is suppose to be currently high because of heavy winter rains

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2003-04-01 10:26pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:Maybe, maybe not. If the water was shallow enough someone might have been able to jump down. The Euphrates is fairly wide, but extremely shallow. My dad described people actually wading all the way across in Baghdad.

Though the river is suppose to be currently high because of heavy winter rains

They didnt mention how deep the water was, Im assuming from the tone of the article it was deep enough for the Abrams to disappear entirely. I think if I was one of those Marines under the bridge, Id be second guessing myself the rest of my life for not looking more closely. This paticular incident bugs me for some reason, as does the two Marines who drowned while crossing an irrigation ditch.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-04-01 10:30pm

TrailerParkJawa wrote:
Sea Skimmer wrote:
They didnt mention how deep the water was, Im assuming from the tone of the article it was deep enough for the Abrams to disappear entirely. I think if I was one of those Marines under the bridge, Id be second guessing myself the rest of my life for not looking more closely. This paticular incident bugs me for some reason, as does the two Marines who drowned while crossing an irrigation ditch.

Thing like that do happen, though I suspect canal is a better word then ditch for the thing. Iraq is filled with them, fairly narrow but quite deep and deadly for a man laden with equipment. There so freak there's not much that can be done about.

Oberleutnant · Post by **Oberleutnant** » 2003-04-02 04:05am

Why exactly do the Uncle Sam's Misguided Children use the older M1A1 instead of M1A2 or the SEP variant? Since they are often the attacking spearhead of US Forces and are sent to hotspots around the world, one would imagine that they would get the best possible equipment there is. Isn't it the same thing with USMC F/A-18s as well? When the Navy has brand new Super Hornets, the Marines have C and D models.