The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by mr friendly guy »

Someone is enjoying coronavirus. White supremacists.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/feder ... r-BB11vT0H
Federal law enforcement document reveals white supremacists discussed using coronavirus as a bioweapon
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WASHINGTON — White supremacists discussed plans to weaponize coronavirus via “saliva,” a “spray bottle” or “laced items,” according to a weekly intelligence brief distributed by a federal law enforcement division on Feb. 17.

a couple of people that are walking down the street: Right-wing extremists in Berlin in 2017 commemorate the 30th anniversary of the death of Adolf Hitler's deputy Rudolf Hess. (Maurizio Gambarini/Picture Alliance via Getty Images)© Provided by Yahoo! News Right-wing extremists in Berlin in 2017 commemorate the 30th anniversary of the death of Adolf Hitler's deputy Rudolf Hess. (Maurizio Gambarini/Picture Alliance via Getty Images)
Federal investigators appeared to be monitoring the white nationalists’ communications on Telegram, an encrypted messaging app that has become popular with neo-Nazis. In the conversations, the white supremacists suggested targeting law enforcement agents and “nonwhite” people with attacks designed to infect them with the coronavirus.

“Violent extremists continue to make bioterrorism a popular topic among themselves,” reads the intelligence brief written by the Federal Protective Service, which covered the week of Feb. 17-24. “White Racially Motivated Violent Extremists have recently commented on the coronavirus stating that it is an ‘OBLIGATION’ to spread it should any of them contract the virus.”

The Federal Protective Service, part of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, is a law enforcement agency responsible for protecting buildings owned or leased by the federal government.

Slide 1 of 49: Times Square stands mostly empty as as much of the city is void of cars and pedestrians over fears of spreading the coronavirus on March 22, 2020 in New York City. Across the country schools, businesses and places of work have either been shut down or are restricting hours of operation as health officials try to slow the spread of COVID-19.
Next Slide
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1/49 SLIDES © Spencer Platt/Getty Images
The world is battling an outbreak of a new coronavirus called COVID-19, which started in the city of Wuhan, China, and has been spreading around the globe, killing thousands. The World Health Organization declared a global pandemic on March 11.

(Pictured) Times Square stands mostly empty as as much of the city is void of cars and pedestrians over fears of spreading the coronavirus on March 22 in New York City.

Slideshow by photo services
The intelligence brief, marked for official use only, noted the white supremacists “suggested targeting … law enforcement and minority communities, with some mention of public places in general.” According to the document, the extremists discussed a number of methods for coronavirus attacks, such spending time in public with perceived enemies, leaving “saliva on door handles” at local FBI offices, spitting on elevator buttons and spreading coronavirus germs in “nonwhite neighborhoods.”

The February document appears to show that at least some white nationalists were already taking the threat of the coronavirus seriously at a time when some in government were downplaying the threat. On Feb. 26, President Trump said that he expected the cases to go down to zero in the United States in “a couple of days.” The Washington Post reported on Friday that intelligence agencies were issuing “ominous” warnings about the virus in January and February.

The Department of Homeland Security did not respond to requests for comment.


According to the Federal Protective Service intelligence brief, the discussion of spreading the coronavirus occurred in a channel on the app Telegram that is devoted to the “siege culture” philosophies of neo-Nazi author James Mason and “accelerationism.” Mason wrote a series of newsletters titled “Siege” in the 1980s that advocated for acts of racial terrorism in order to hasten a war that would cause the breakdown of society.

White Supremacist Corona by Sharon Weinberger on Scribd

In recent years, Mason’s writings became popular among members of the violent neo-Nazi group Atomwaffen Division and its offshoots. Mason could not be reached for comment. Growing numbers of white supremacists have also expressed interest in “accelerationism,” which involves advocating for extremist attacks with the express goal of provoking a larger societal conflict.

Nick Martin, who is the editor of the Informant, a newsletter focused on hate and extremist groups and a former investigative reporter at the Southern Poverty Law Center, told Yahoo News that multiple newer neo-Nazi groups with younger members have brought Mason to prominence.

“There’s a whole branch of neo-Nazism that follows James Mason's writings and uses his work as kind of their bible. Atomwaffen is part of that, but there are multiple groups that would fall under the same category,” Martin said.

Homeland Security has identified white supremacist violence as one of the major domestic extremist threats facing the United State, and there has been a push to start tracking such groups the way U.S. intelligence agencies track foreign terrorists.

News to stay informed. Advice to stay safe.
Click here for complete coronavirus coverage from Microsoft News
Atomwaffen Division has made headlines because of multiple criminal cases involving the group’s leadership. Martin, who has written extensively about the group, said some of his sources believe there is a possibility followers of Atomwaffen or similar groups could try to take advantage of the coronavirus pandemic.

“There is a big concern right now — including from people who work in counterterrorism — that it’s an opportune time for these accelerationist groups to strike,” Martin said.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Well, what's the maximum penalty under US law for committing terrorism with a bio-weapon?
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Its not just Trump: Orban in Hungary is using the coronavirus to push an "emergency bill" that would give him the power to rule by decree indefinitely (in other words, to make him dictator for life).

https://theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/ ... -by-decree
Hungary’s parliament will this week consider an emergency bill that would give prime minister Viktor Orbán sweeping powers to rule by decree, without a clear cut-off date.

The bill seeks to extend the state of emergency declared earlier this month over coronavirus, and could also see people jailed for spreading information deemed to be fake news. The government has portrayed the move as a necessary response to the unprecedented challenges posed by the coronavirus pandemic, but critics immediately labelled the legislation as dangerously open-ended and vulnerable to abuse.

“You can’t have a completely unrestricted mandate for the government,” said Márta Pardavi, co-chair of the Hungarian Helsinki Committee. “The current draft does exactly that. It basically gives an open-ended carte-blanche mandate.”

On Sunday, four Hungarian NGOs, including the Helsinki Committee, called on the government to provide a sunset clause to the emergency measures and broaden the scope for constitutional challenges to future decrees enacted within it.

The new law would also introduce prison terms of up to five years for anyone publicising false information that alarms the public or impedes government efforts to protect people. It caused disquiet among independent journalists, who have often been accused by the government and its loyal stable of media outlets of peddling fake news.

Orbán’s spokesman Zoltán Kovács said the lack of a clear end date was in case MPs became too sick for parliament to sit. Attempts to portray the bill as a threat to the free media were “biased and irresponsible”, he said. “Lives are at stake,” he wrote on Twitter, adding that the bill is “quite reasonable”.


Zagreb hit by earthquake while in coronavirus lockdown
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Part of the alarm was owing to the record of Orbán’s government over the past decade. Critics and democracy watchdogs have accused the government of rolling back democratic norms and eroding the rule of law.

“The past 10 years have served as ample proof that the Hungarian government exploits and abuses opportunities to weaken institutions serving as a check on its power, whenever it has the chance to do so,” said the Budapest-based think tank Political Capital. “Extraordinary legal situations are very easy to introduce, but it is much harder to return to business as usual afterwards.”

The government requires four-fifths of votes to push the legislation through this week, but if it does not win the support of opposition parties it can pass it a week later with a two-thirds majority, which Orbán’s party, Fidesz, commands in parliament.

As of Sunday morning, there were 131 confirmed cases of coronavirus in Hungary with six deaths, much lower than in neighbouring Austria and many other western European countries. Part of the reason for the lower numbers could be the much lower levels of testing. With a population of nearly 10 million, Hungary has so far carried out only around 4,000 tests.

Orbán has governed over the past few years on a staunchly nationalist, anti-migration platform, and has already drawn a link between migration and the virus. “We are fighting a two-front war, one front is called migration, and the other one belongs to the coronavirus. There is a logical connection between the two, as both spread with movement,” he said earlier this month.

Hungary has already introduced a range of measures to battle the virus. Last Monday, the government closed off the country to everyone but Hungarian citizens, while restaurants and shops have been limiting opening hours and schools and universities have been closed since last week.

There are question marks over how efficiently these restrictions work in practice and whether the country’s struggling healthcare system will be able to cope with the virus when the number of cases increases. Hungarian website Index reported this weekend that those with symptoms who went to hospital for testing were kept close together in waiting rooms, had no access to hand sanitiser, and were told to sign forms using a communal pen.

The ban on non-Hungarian citizens entering the country also led to foreign residents being held for long periods of time on arrival at Budapest airport in a confined space. On Wednesday, around 60 foreigners, most of them without masks, were crammed into a small area by a departure gate. When these people were finally given the green light to enter Hungary, they were not instructed to self-isolate or enter quarantine.

Other countries in the region have also adopted strict measures early in an attempt to get ahead of the curve. Poland took the decision to ban all flights and close the borders a week ago, despite a low number of confirmed cases. In the Balkans, Serbia has enforced a night curfew while Albania’s government has brought in the army to enforce a 40-hour curfew beginning Saturday lunch time. Military vehicles patrolled the streets of Tirana over the weekend.
Every fascist and authoritarian in the world is going to use this crisis for maximum effect. And a lot of them will probably succeed, because fear of the virus, and the genuine need to quarantine, will mute any opposition. This will be the true long term devastation of coronavirus- the systematic destruction of democratic institutions and the rule of law.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by The Romulan Republic »

McConnel's Aid for the Rich coronavirus response bill (the one that gives everyone a check, but gives more to the rich than to the poor) has failed to get enough votes- not only did it not get enough to avoid a fillibuster, it failed to even get a majority, with the Senate splitting 47-47 (this was due in part to five Republicans being absent due to being in quarantine).

McConnell, of course is blaming the Democrats for "obstruction" (hah, that's rich, coming from the Master of Obstruction). And all the media coverage I've seen, of course, has been being "unbiased" by repeating a "both sides" narrative where the failure of the bill is blamed on "partisanship" rather than on the Republican bill being objectively awful and the Democrats actually trying to represent the basic needs of their constituents.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by The Romulan Republic »

You know, I'm just going to laugh at the fact that the Democrats are now two quarantined Republicans away from a temporary Senate majority, because Republicans were so negligent of safety in the early days that a disproportionate number of them ended up exposed/sick.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by TimothyC »

There is a fight brewing in Ohio as to just how elective abortion is. The state government is moving to restrict those that are not considered medically necessary, while the providers are claiming that all they provide are. It's a bit of a sticky widget.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/abortion-i ... r-to-stop/#

I would note that,yes Ohio has passed some exceptionally stupid abortion laws over the last couple of years, but restrictions on what are not strictly speaking medically necessary procedures are generally considered a valid course of action in major public health emergencies.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by The Romulan Republic »

TimothyC wrote: 2020-03-23 10:50am There is a fight brewing in Ohio as to just how elective abortion is. The state government is moving to restrict those that are not considered medically necessary, while the providers are claiming that all they provide are. It's a bit of a sticky widget.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/abortion-i ... r-to-stop/#

I would note that,yes Ohio has passed some exceptionally stupid abortion laws over the last couple of years, but restrictions on what are not strictly speaking medically necessary procedures are generally considered a valid course of action in major public health emergencies.
As opposed to the additional strain on the health care system from a) more unwanted pregnancies, and b) emergency cases resulting from do it yourself abortions?

Edit: Also that abortions are something that, if you're going to do them, definitely have a strict time limit on when you can do them, after which you have to live with the life-long consequences of not having had one. Unlike some elective procedures, postponing them indefinitely isn't an option.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

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The Romulan Republic wrote: 2020-03-23 10:46am You know, I'm just going to laugh at the fact that the Democrats are now two quarantined Republicans away from a temporary Senate majority, because Republicans were so negligent of safety in the early days that a disproportionate number of them ended up exposed/sick.
Why do you assume the Democrat senators were taking more precautions and it's not just luck?
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by Zaune »

Ace Pace wrote: 2020-03-23 11:46amWhy do you assume the Democrat senators were taking more precautions and it's not just luck?
Because the Democrats have trended towards not having their heads quite as far up their arses on average over the last twenty years, perhaps?
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

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Ace Pace wrote: 2020-03-23 11:46am
The Romulan Republic wrote: 2020-03-23 10:46am You know, I'm just going to laugh at the fact that the Democrats are now two quarantined Republicans away from a temporary Senate majority, because Republicans were so negligent of safety in the early days that a disproportionate number of them ended up exposed/sick.
Why do you assume the Democrat senators were taking more precautions and it's not just luck?
Have you forgotten that in the early days (ie, two or three weeks ago), Trump was saying everything was under control, that he'd keep holding rallies, that Coronavirus was being used/made up by the Democrats to undermine him, etc? With Fox passing on the message as well? And that there were multiple cases of Republican politicians being exposed at CPAC? There was also this incident, earlier in this thread, where the RNC chairwoman attended a meeting with Trump, administration officials, and most of the Senate Republicans while being tested:

https://twitter.com/Journo_Christal/sta ... 5117184000

High level government officials and politicians in general are at higher risk of getting it than the general public, given that they're usually older, frequent travelers, and forced to intermingle with the public and crowds regularly as part of their job. But given the general Cult of the Leader mentality in the Republican Party, and Trump's history of expecting shows of loyalty (the alternative to "loyalty" being to be labeled guilty of Treason and fired), its not a huge stretch to think that some Republicans avoided taking precautions for fear of displeasing Trump, even if they knew better.

Rand Paul, the first confirmed case of an infected Senator, was out in public while awaiting test results, as well.

So no, I don't think its coincidence that its all Republican Senators in quarantine from possible (or in Rand Paul's case, confirmed) exposure.

Bottom line is, one party broadly believes in science, while the other is founded on absolute loyalty to whatever collection of conspiracy theories the Dear Leader has pulled out of his ass today.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Bernie Sanders wrote:The Republican coronavirus bill doesn't just give away hundreds of billions of dollars for a corporate-bailout slush fund, it could deny aid to nonprofits that receive Medicaid support, including Planned Parenthood, disability providers, nursing homes, mental health providers and even rape crisis centers.
Yeah, that's right. Not only does their big coronavirus response bill offer less to the poor than to the rich, it actually takes resources away from those who are struggling to fight the pandemic.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by TimothyC »

The Romulan Republic wrote: 2020-03-23 10:52am As opposed to the additional strain on the health care system from a) more unwanted pregnancies, and b) emergency cases resulting from do it yourself abortions?
Well, the strains from additional pregnancies are different than those from the abortions and COVID treatment, and even if we include Labor & Delivery, that's a three to four month lag time between when an abortion now, and the due date.
The Romulan Republic wrote: 2020-03-23 10:52amEdit: Also that abortions are something that, if you're going to do them, definitely have a strict time limit on when you can do them, after which you have to live with the life-long consequences of not having had one. Unlike some elective procedures, postponing them indefinitely isn't an option.
Yeah, there are consequences and it can't be delayed indefinitely. I also noted why this isn't being seen in good faith by people (the prior stupid restrictions/laws). It's a sticky widget with no clear answer.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by MKSheppard »

NBC News: Commissioner Daniel Nigro says 46 members of the FDNY have tested positive for COVID-19, two are hospitalized, none have acquired the virus through a patient.

He calls the supply of PPE "dangerously low" with the FDNY having weeks of supply, not months.

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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

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BBC:Bojo shuts country down for at least three weeks from this evening

Enforceable by the police, there's a link to his speech in there don't have the transcript said.

By contrast
Pence U.S. coronavirus guidance to be re-evaluated after 15-day period end which I believe is March 30th

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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

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Mr Bean wrote: 2020-03-23 05:09pmBBC:Bojo shuts country down for at least three weeks from this evening

Enforceable by the police, there's a link to his speech in there don't have the transcript said.
Hah. Enforceable with what manpower?
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

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Trump press conference imminent. Reports are the White House is fighting over how damaging the response will be to the economy (translation, they want to go back to doing fuck all about it).
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

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All non-essential business & services in Ontario and Quebec are shut down as of 11:59pm Tuesday. Key industry & supply chain companies will remain open along with grocery store, pharmacies, and beer & liquor stores.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

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Canada is considering invoking the Emergencies Act, the modern replacement for the War Measures Act:

https://cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-em ... -1.5507205
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and the leaders of Canada's provinces and territories will speak by phone tonight to discuss the possibility of invoking the federal Emergencies Act to fight the COVID-19 pandemic — legislation that empowers Ottawa to do just about anything it thinks is necessary to cope with a crisis.

Deputy Prime Minister Chrystia Freeland said Monday the Emergencies Act is a "measure of last resort," but it might be required if Canada is to implement some extraordinary measures — beyond existing provincial actions — to stop the spread of a virus that has already infected more than 2,000 people in this country.

Trudeau said he'd speak to the premiers tonight about what more they feel they need from Ottawa to clamp down on COVID-19.

Every province has declared a state of emergency already to restrict public movement and close most businesses, along with other restrictions, in an effort to limit the spread of the deadly virus.

"I can tell you that we haven't taken anything off the table — from the Emergencies Act to new measures — or existing measures under the Quarantine Act. They are tools that are at our disposal," Trudeau said.

"One of the key elements of the Emergencies Act is that it is an override over the provinces. It takes powers that normally are only in the hands of the provinces, or even municipalities, and puts them in the federal level," he said.

Trudeau promised to work closely with the provinces and territories if he takes that step — something the Emergencies Act already demands of Ottawa.

Asked Monday if he thought invoking the act is necessary, Ontario Premier Doug Ford said it's a decision for Trudeau to make.

"Every single province is different, so we want to make sure that we still have the authority to make the decisions that we require for ... the health and the economy in each province," Ford told reporters ahead of the call with Trudeau and other first ministers.

Unprecedented powers
The Emergencies Act, a sweeping piece of legislation passed in 1988 as a replacement for the controversial War Measures Act, has never been used before in Canada.

The act gives powers to the prime minister to respond to four different types of emergency scenarios: public welfare (natural disasters, disease), public order (civil unrest), international emergencies and war emergencies.

The act grants cabinet the ability to "take special temporary measures that may not be appropriate in normal times" to cope with an emergency and the resulting fallout during an "urgent and critical situation."

It gives cabinet unprecedented powers to assume jurisdiction from the provinces in areas like health and commerce.

Invoking the act might help the federal government close some interprovincial borders to stop the spread of COVID-19 — a measure that would have been almost unimaginable only days ago.

But some provinces, such as Nova Scotia and P.E.I., are already policing land crossings as they order anyone returning from a trip — even a domestic one — to self-isolate for 14 days upon entry.

The Emergencies Act could allow for the creation of travel passes to curtail movement, for example.

The act also grants cabinet powers to evacuate people and remove "personal property from any specific area," acquire property, direct any person or any class of person to "render essential services," regulate "distribution and availability of essential goods, services and resources," authorize "emergency payments," establish shelters and hospitals and impose criminal sanctions.

The act allows the federal government to essentially nationalize parts of the economy wherever it thinks it's necessary as cabinet can assume "control, the restoration and maintenance of public utilities and services" to ensure the well-being of Canadians.

Jack Lindsay is a professor in the department of applied disaster and emergency studies at Brandon University in Manitoba and an expert in the country's emergency measures legislation.

Lindsay said he doesn't see the point of invoking federal legislation at a time when the provinces already have their own measures in place to essentially shut down social and economic life in this country.

"None of the provinces are looking for an authoritarian central government right now."​​​
- Jack Lindsay, Brandon University
In our federal system of government, with its devolved powers, provinces already have the ability to act, he said.

"The act doesn't really give the federal government a lot of extra new powers that aren't already being exercised by the provinces. All of the provinces already have the ability to commandeer essential resources and supplies," he told CBC News. "None of the provinces are looking for an authoritarian central government right now.

"If I was Justin Trudeau I'd be saying, 'I want to help the provinces coordinate. I don't want to impose a national set of powers on them.' I'm curious to see what they'll do. I just don't see the advantage of that right now."

Lindsay said the act and its powers might be useful later as the pandemic spreads — if some provinces start hoarding medical supplies, for example.

Under the act, Ottawa could redirect masks, ventilators or COVID-19 testing devices from one area of the country to particular "hot spots" in dire need of equipment or supplies. Lindsay also said different "classes of people," like nurses, might be also conscripted to work in other regions.

Enforcement measures for returning travellers
Health Minister Patty Hajdu said Monday the government is considering much more stringent enforcement measures to ensure returning travellers strictly self-isolate at home for at least 14 days to reduce community spread.

Some Canadians have been flouting that rule; police could be called upon to force people to stay home, if necessary. Hajdu also suggested a "hotline" might be established to allow concerned Canadians to report cases of noncompliance.

But local and province police services can only be nationalized in wartime. Such enforcement measures would be left to local peace officers to maintain, Lindsay said.

The federal Quarantine Act, which was updated in 2005 after the deadly SARS outbreak, does give the federal health minister an arsenal of tools to force people to stay home.

Michael Bryant is the executive director of the Canadian Civil Liberties Association (CCLA). He said there is a lot of misinformation floating around about the Emergencies Act.

"I understand they want to hear from the leader of their country but, constitutionally, the federal powers that need to be enacted are being enacted now," he told CBC News, citing the provisions of the Quarantine Act.

"There are no powers under the federal Emergencies Act that need to be invoked right now because they are already being invoked by the provinces and the municipalities."

Unlike the case of the now-defunct War Measures Act — which former prime minister Pierre Elliott Trudeau invoked during the Front de liberation du Quebec (FLQ) crisis — government can't simply trigger the Emergencies Act without the participation of Parliament.

If an emergency declaration is made, Parliament must be summoned to "sit within seven days after the declaration is issued," a measure added to the act to avoid abuse by the government of the day.

"There's a constitution in place that's going to limit how much provincial, federal or municipal government does to control people and limit civil liberties," Bryant said.
Kind of feels like coming full circle, given Justin's father was the one who invoked the War Measures Act against separatist terrorists in Quebec.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Well, Dickless just said, in answer to a reporter's question, that they would "open up" America soon, and that it would not be months. Keep in mind that experts expect this to last until Summer at the soonest.

Yeah, America's going to make Italy look like a regular old flu season, at this rate. It makes you wonder if he's deliberately trying to make it bad enough to justify a declaration of martial law and sweeping "emergency powers". Or if he's just doing what Wall Street told him.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by mr friendly guy »

Now that UK is in a lockdown, what happened to the brilliant herd immunity plan? It looks like the Netherlands is the only one going through with this. And I predict the term herd immunity is going to have negative connotations now due to these plans, as opposed to the usual medical term.

I have said it before, but it looks like the UK scientific adviser who came up with that idea is the Master in disguise. :D
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by mr friendly guy »

https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/03/23/ ... rus-order/
By CNN.COM WIRE SERVICE
PUBLISHED: March 23, 2020 at 8:38 a.m. | UPDATED: March 23, 2020 at 10:14 a.m.

(CNN) — Crowds descended on California beaches, hiking trails and parks over the weekend in open defiance of a state order to avoid close contact with others.

The large number of visitors prompted officials in some cities to order parks, recreation areas and beaches to close. Marin County on Sunday closed all parks — local, state and federal — within its boundaries.

Video and photos on social media showed groups of people standing in close contact of one another at hiking trails and beaches in Los Angeles over the weekend. Health officials urge people to maintain a distance of 6 feet from one another to prevent transmission of the highly contagious coronavirus.

In response to the crowds, Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti announced on Twitter late Sunday that he was closing sports and recreation at all city parks. He also tweeted that parking at city beaches was closed.
Same shit happened in Australia with people ignoring orders and going to Bondi beach. But remember guys, according to news.com.au Jamie Siedel, quarantines don't work because you only need one to break them. As opposed to what? An entire crowd. :lol:
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by J »

The Romulan Republic wrote: 2020-03-23 07:00pm Well, Dickless just said, in answer to a reporter's question, that they would "open up" America soon, and that it would not be months. Keep in mind that experts expect this to last until Summer at the soonest.

Yeah, America's going to make Italy look like a regular old flu season, at this rate. It makes you wonder if he's deliberately trying to make it bad enough to justify a declaration of martial law and sweeping "emergency powers". Or if he's just doing what Wall Street told him.
The problem is we in North America waited too long. There are now 2 choices 1) open up the country and let the cat out of the bag, however many people die, die. 2) Lock down everything until the virus burns out or runs its course which is projected to take somewhere between 6-18 months. The latter results in a complete destruction of the economy, complete failure of all healthcare & other vital systems as all the previously unknown key nodes in the system are shut down or bankrupted and various critical supplies are exhausted. The death toll from that will likely be worse than letting the virus run its course.

Would you like to see what happens when water treatment fails? Or the power grid goes down and we can't replace the broken transformers because the only mills in the country which rolls the special steel for the transformers is out of business? Or even something simpler like transport fuels. We've just destroyed the demand for gasoline whereas diesel fuel isn't affected as much since vital goods still need to move. When crude oil is refined into diesel & gasoline, it comes out in a certain proportion which can be moved around a bit but not that much. We're eventually going to end up with a large surplus of gasoline and nowhere to store it, at which point the refineries shut down and all transport stops for lack of diesel. Either that or we figure out a way to flare off all the unused gasoline.

It's not as simple as you think. There are some very hard choices to be made by our leaders. Of course, we wouldn't be in this position if they'd gotten off their sorry asses and done their jobs 2 months ago.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by ray245 »

J wrote: 2020-03-23 08:19pm
The Romulan Republic wrote: 2020-03-23 07:00pm Well, Dickless just said, in answer to a reporter's question, that they would "open up" America soon, and that it would not be months. Keep in mind that experts expect this to last until Summer at the soonest.

Yeah, America's going to make Italy look like a regular old flu season, at this rate. It makes you wonder if he's deliberately trying to make it bad enough to justify a declaration of martial law and sweeping "emergency powers". Or if he's just doing what Wall Street told him.
The problem is we in North America waited too long. There are now 2 choices 1) open up the country and let the cat out of the bag, however many people die, die. 2) Lock down everything until the virus burns out or runs its course which is projected to take somewhere between 6-18 months. The latter results in a complete destruction of the economy, complete failure of all healthcare & other vital systems as all the previously unknown key nodes in the system are shut down or bankrupted and various critical supplies are exhausted. The death toll from that will likely be worse than letting the virus run its course.

Would you like to see what happens when water treatment fails? Or the power grid goes down and we can't replace the broken transformers because the only mills in the country which rolls the special steel for the transformers is out of business? Or even something simpler like transport fuels. We've just destroyed the demand for gasoline whereas diesel fuel isn't affected as much since vital goods still need to move. When crude oil is refined into diesel & gasoline, it comes out in a certain proportion which can be moved around a bit but not that much. We're eventually going to end up with a large surplus of gasoline and nowhere to store it, at which point the refineries shut down and all transport stops for lack of diesel. Either that or we figure out a way to flare off all the unused gasoline.

It's not as simple as you think. There are some very hard choices to be made by our leaders. Of course, we wouldn't be in this position if they'd gotten off their sorry asses and done their jobs 2 months ago.
Or You lock down the country for a few weeks until you develop the testing capacity to trace any new clusters while you bring back aspects of your workforce. Lockdowns isn't meant to bring a complete end to the virus. It's to bring the number of new cases down to an extend that it is manageable and you can once again contain clusters and isolate the cases.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by J »

ray245 wrote: 2020-03-23 08:30pmOr You lock down the country for a few weeks until you develop the testing capacity to trace any new clusters while you bring back aspects of your workforce. Lockdowns isn't meant to bring a complete end to the virus. It's to bring the number of new cases down to an extend that it is manageable and you can once again contain clusters and isolate the cases.
That ship sailed over a month ago. We are not Singapore, Taiwan, or even South Korea. The testing capacity does not and will not exist in that time frame, nor do we have the surveillance ability to backtrack positive cases and test & quarantine all their contacts.
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- Jean-Claude Juncker
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