Hungarian democracy dies with thunderous applause

[His Divine Shadow]

Yeah I'm not gonna embrace anytihng global of any kind. I know what it'll be, more everything for the cities, less for us. That's what it is even if it's socialist it'd still be run by city people for city people and their opinions and prejudices about rurals as inbred rednecks who need to be stomped out. Nearly 20 years on this forum cemented that viewpoint in me.

[The Romulan Republic]

Yeah, I know. The tendency toward isolationism and destroying globalism in some portions of the Left is probably our biggest weakness, as its one of the most effective tools the Right has to divide and conquer us, and to coopt portions of the Left in their nationalist, xenophobic agenda (see Leftists backing Brexit, Bernie or Busters and the US Greens helping Trump and defending him on stuff like Russian collusion).

What we really should be doing is not promoting xenophobic isolationism and destruction of the status quo at any price (even if it means crawling into bed with fascists). We should be promoting an alternative vision of global unity, in the form of a global socialist movement to oppose global capitalism.

It's easy to talk about it, but many humans need to see some form of physical interaction for xenophobia to subside, or for people to be more eager to embrace any form of globalism ( socialistic or capitalistic).

What do you mean by "physical interaction". If you're referring to the statistical link between Right-wing views and people who have never left their own communities/traveled/encountered other cultures, then yeah. More and more, I'm coming around to the idea of a mandatory year abroad as part of schooling (or as work/volunteering). I know there's probably nowhere near the political will to implement such a thing right now, even without the fucking pandemic, but its something I'd like to see, and I think it would do a lot of good.

[His Divine Shadow]

That's such a head up the ass huffing your own farts thing as I have ever read. God.

This modern travel fetishism is jus another sick consumer culture concept.

And it really just reeks of bigotry, people who travel who think they are better than others, are infact the worst people.

[loomer]

I'm a fan of bioregionalism, myself.

[The Romulan Republic]

That's such a head up the ass huffing your own farts thing as I have ever read. God.

This modern travel fetishism is jus another sick consumer culture concept.

And it really just reeks of bigotry, people who travel who think they are better than others, are infact the worst people.

So, rather than actually contributing anything worthwhile, or address the well-known link between exposure to other places and cultures and more tolerant worldviews, you make a bunch of assumptions about me, my values, my attitudes, my experiences, and my motives, launch a deluge of personal abuse, and basically post 100% ad hominems. Par for the course, I see, though this is pathetic even by the standards of this board's faux Leftist fascist apologist contingent.

So, let me get this straight- experiencing the world outside your home town is "consumer culture", so we should all stay isolated and hate and fear the Other- for Socialism!

Oh, and of course I'm the REAL bigot- I've never heard a xenophobic racist scream that they're the ones really being persecuted when someone calls them out before, nosiree.

I know you're trying to paint me as a Rich Privileged Liberal Elitist in order to strawman me (also rhetoric right out of the Alt. Reich's playbook for stoking white male resentment, surprise surprise), but fun fact- I just got laid off from my minimum wage job due to COVID-19, and I haven't traveled more than a couple hours' drive in over seven years. So why don't you kiss my ass, you faux-Leftist crypto-fascist piece of fucking shit?

But hey, thanks for providing an object example of the kind of tools I was talking about- the people who call themselves Leftists but who's opposition to capitalism is really just an excuse for isolationism and hating the Other, and who will happily sell us all to rich privileged capitalist white men like Trump, Boris Johnson, and Putin to spite the "establishment" (by which its pretty obvious you really mean globalism and multiculturalism, not capitalism).

[The Romulan Republic]

Seriously, more than half the shit-flinging on this board for the last five years has been because this board's faux-Leftist "anti-establishment" dictator apologist brigade constantly attacks, libels, abuses and harasses me for daring to argue that you can be both a Leftist and a globalist/internationalist.

Edit: And, admittedly, because I refuse to turn the other cheek. But hey, don't dish it out if you can't take it.

[His Divine Shadow]

Take what?

[Ziggy Stardust]

Jesus fucking Christ, people. Can ALL of you just shut the fuck up? It takes two to tango, and all of you have done your duty to derail this thread with an idiotic and pointless tangent. Either talk about Orban or let the thread die, there's no reason to turn this into another pedantic pissing contest.

[The Romulan Republic]

Jesus fucking Christ, people. Can ALL of you just shut the fuck up? It takes two to tango, and all of you have done your duty to derail this thread with an idiotic and pointless tangent. Either talk about Orban or let the thread die, there's no reason to turn this into another pedantic pissing contest.

So what do you think we should do? Just ignore xenophobic bigots, and let them dominate every conversation unchallenged? Because they're not going to stop being assholes.

His Divine Shadow outright admitted earlier in this thread that his primary ideology/agenda is not socialist or Leftist, as he has pretended, but xenophobic isolationism motivated by resentment and fear of "urban" communities. Then when I posted some perfectly civil comments about the value of interacting with other cultures in combating xenophobia and authoritarianism, comments which weren't even directed at him, he responded with a post consisting entirely of abuse, ad hominem, and more xenophobic ranting about how traveling to other parts of the world was "consumer culture". Literally, he accused me of bigotry for suggesting that people should interact with other cultures. Which I then called out because THAT SHIT FUCKING SHOULD BE CALLED OUT.

And yeah, its relevant to Hungary and Orban, because these sorts of views are how men like Orban take power and keep power, and they end up infecting and derailing any discussion of politics here or anywhere else. Whether we support isolationism or multiculturalism, and how we do so, is relevant to literally any discussion involving Right-wing or isolationist politics, anywhere.

And yet, predictably, I get equal blame. I'd attribute that to my reputation (crafted in part by several years of persistent provocation, ad hominem, and libel from this board's faux leftist crypto-fascist contingent), but I don't think it is just that any more. Its always like this. When there's a scene, people blame both sides, regardless of who started it or who's right. Because it has the illusion of being fair, and it easier than using your own judgement. But it ultimately benefits the biggest asshole, by putting them on an "equal" footing with their opponents.*

I also feel, as a progressive, a personal responsibility for calling out xenophobic assholes in our ranks. I and many others have often condemned Republicans for tolerating the xenophobes and extremists in their party until they took over the party. How can we then ignore shit like that on our side, without being complete and utter hypocrites? We can't. If progressives tolerate xenophobes in our ranks, we'll go the same fucking way as the Right, and then both sides really will be just as bad.



*To give an obvious example of this process in action on a much larger and more significant scale, this is pretty much how Trump won. Seriously, that's how. Because we reached a point as a society where the accepted political "wisdom" was that a serial rapist Quisling endorsed by the Klan was no worse than any other politician.

[LaCroix]

Today, there was a statment by the hungarian embassy.

The hungarian constitution mandates that emergency decrees by the prime minister can only last for 15 days, period. After that, they need a law to extend the emergency powers for either a set duration, the end of crisis, or all decrees are immediately invalidated. Even after extending the powers to quickly react to a crisis via decree, parliament can still replace decrees by formal laws or revoke them at any time they can get around to do this.

Don't know the exact text of these laws, but it seems the act of parliament was constitutionally mandated and correct, or else they would not be able to further mandate a shelter in place order, among other emergency regulations currently in place.

Also - about the fake news part - I am getting kind of bombarded by corona denial and conspiracy memes right now on the hungarian side of facebook, so I kind of get what they are worrying about.

[The Romulan Republic]

Today, there was a statment by the hungarian embassy.

The hungarian constitution mandates that emergency decrees by the prime minister can only last for 15 days, period. After that, they need a law to extend the emergency powers for either a set duration, the end of crisis, or all decrees are immediately invalidated. Even after extending the powers to quickly react to a crisis via decree, parliament can still replace decrees by formal laws or revoke them at any time they can get around to do this.

Don't know the exact text of these laws, but it seems the act of parliament was constitutionally mandated and correct, or else they would not be able to further mandate a shelter in place order, among other emergency regulations currently in place.

Also - about the fake news part - I am getting kind of bombarded by corona denial and conspiracy memes right now on the hungarian side of facebook, so I kind of get what they are worrying about.

That there is a legitimate crisis is undeniable. That is what makes the attempted power grabs (in Hungary and many other countries) so dangerous, as they are likely to succeed under the guise of necessity.

Hopefully the parliament will exercise their powers to revoke the decree if need be.

[His Divine Shadow]

I think the only thing that called out was showing once again you got shit for brains TRR.

[aerius]

Jesus fucking Christ, people. Can ALL of you just shut the fuck up? It takes two to tango, and all of you have done your duty to derail this thread with an idiotic and pointless tangent. Either talk about Orban or let the thread die, there's no reason to turn this into another pedantic pissing contest.

I think the only thing that called out was showing once again you got shit for brains TRR.

Considering that you know who is the common denominator in every shitted up thread...and yet he maintains that he's the victim.
Clearly, SD.net is filled with meanies, and there's a conspiracy of oldtimers who are out to get him.

[madd0ct0r]

Jesus fucking Christ, people. Can ALL of you just shut the fuck up? It takes two to tango, and all of you have done your duty to derail this thread with an idiotic and pointless tangent. Either talk about Orban or let the thread die, there's no reason to turn this into another pedantic pissing contest.

I think the only thing that called out was showing once again you got shit for brains TRR.

Considering that you know who is the common denominator in every shitted up thread...and yet he maintains that he's the victim.
Clearly, SD.net is filled with meanies, and there's a conspiracy of oldtimers who are out to get him.

Jesus fucking Christ.

His divine shadow, aerius. Stop shitting up the thread in an attempt to get the last word. The travel question interests me so I'm starting a new topic on it. Go look.