The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by MKSheppard »

mr friendly guy wrote: 2020-04-10 08:21pmSo this article actually reveals more than the reports previously. Good find Shep. Previously I knew that countries have purchased from a non approved government supplier and then cried foul. It seems they purchase antibody detection kits instead of PCR. :D
I think what's happening is the naked rogue capitalism prevalent in CCP is trying to scam/make a quick buck off desperate foreign customers who don't know any better: e.g. the mask grades (Hospital/General Public) thing.

This isn't good for Chinese public image globally, and will accelerate "decoupling" from Chinese producers for critical items.
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"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

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The UK just issue a new report based on 4,690 patients in England, Wales and Northern Ireland w/ confirmed #COVID19
https://t.co/yGr75sLlMK @ICNARC
Of 1689 patients in ICU, 51.6% died; ventilator in 1st 24 hrs 67% died, deaths in young noteworthy (lag noted w/ pending status)
pic.twitter.com/XNxLyPPR80
Eric Topol Eric Topol (@EricTopol) April 10, 2020
The @ICNARC data was updated today (Apr 10) with nearly 1700 ICU patients and the largest cohort followed, reported on a mechanical ventilator, to date. The mortality, if on a ventilator in the 1st 24 hrs, was nearly 70% (note lag of pending status, too)
https://t.co/jduQirvWaK pic.twitter.com/T5BbRhrQTA
Eric Topol Eric Topol (@EricTopol) April 10, 2020
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"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong

"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

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Beowulf wrote: 2020-04-10 05:36pm
loomer wrote: 2020-04-10 01:37am Fuck the Pope. He's on Pell's side.
Who's Pell, why is he bad, and what does it have to do with the topic?
Pell's a homophobic, transphobic, racist piece of shit pedophile enabler and pedophile who happens to be a Cardinal in the Church. As for what it has to do with the topic - when someone says 'hey, the pope's a cool guy' and he's backing said homophobic, transphobic racist piece of shit pedophile and pedophile enabler, I'm going to comment on it.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by MKSheppard »

loomer wrote: 2020-04-10 09:27am COVID-19 has exposed the inequalities of New York once again. People in the Bronx are dying twice as much as the rest of the city, and so are Black and Latino New Yorkers generally.

We are not, in fact, 'all in this together'. That's never been realistic. The marginalized and impoverished are facing a disproportionate toll of both infections per capita and death rates.
Corona hits stupid people the hardest.

So MR FRIENDLY GUY....

Remember all the tales about the Chinese welding people into their apartment buildings?

That was basically because Chinese Boomers and FluBros refused to comply, and carried on with their mahjohngg games on the front steps of the apartments with their fellow Boomer/FluBros.

So the local police sealed off and welded shut those entrances, while leaving the secondary exits, which didn't have front steps etc open.

They also went around confiscating key pieces from every mahjohngg gamepiece they could find; making it impossible to actually win a game of mahjohngg.

So....

https://abc30.com/health/fresno-officia ... s/6075737/
Fresno City officials already started closing parking lots at parks weeks ago, but staff will now remove basketball rims as well as tennis nets at City-owned parks.
This is happening all over America; in Florida, etc; you can find people complaining on twitter about it.

Meanwhile in Kentucky:

http://kentuckytoday.com/stories/even-s ... says,25286
Holy Week and Easter Sunday are typically times when families come together.

But this is a whole new time.

Gov. Andy Beshear said at his Monday press conference that even small gatherings of people staying six feet apart outside are not allowed in these days of the coronavirus because of how easily the disease can spread from person to person.

"The answer to that, folks, and it's a hard one, has to be no," he said. "We're trying to make sure that we are not increasing contacts, even from six feet away. We have direct proof that any crowd, anywhere can spread this virus and ultimately cause harm to Kentuckians."

It’s simply not worth the risk, the governor said, noting, “We have direct proof that any crowd anywhere can spread this virus and ultimately cause harm to Kentuckians.”

Exceptions cannot be made for Easter or any other time, he said. House parties, he said, are an area where Kentuckians need to improve generally.

“Sure, it's smaller than a large gathering, and yes, I know you want your kids to be able to play with other kids, I desperately do, but we cannot be having house parties," Beshear said. "Social distancing is about making sure when you come across somebody, that you are at a sufficient distance not to spread the coronavirus. But it can't be an excuse or a crutch, and I know that's a hard way of saying it when we are talking about Easter, wanting to get together, but it can't be a reason that we don't stay at home."

Many Kentucky Baptist churches will be having Easter services online through YouTube and Facebook platforms. Some churches will be doing drive-in services, but Beshear said those can only be done by following the proper guidelines that include staying in the car and not passing anything from car to car.

Hopkins and Jefferson counties are not allowing drive-in church services.
https://www.courier-journal.com/story/n ... 133851002/
Louisville Metro Police officers will be writing down the license plate numbers of those who attend church services over Easter weekend, Mayor Greg Fischer said Friday.

Fischer has asked Louisvillians to forgo in-person gatherings, including drive-in services, to lessen the spread of the coronavirus. He said the license information would be given to the city's health department.

"If we allowed this in Louisville, we'd have hundreds of thousands of people driving around the city Sunday, and boy, the virus would just love that," Fischer said.

....

Gov. Andy Beshear announced a similar new policy on Friday evening, saying that state police will also note the license plate numbers of those who attend any in-person mass gathering, church services included.
https://www.wlky.com/article/beshear-pa ... s/32111301
FRANKFORT, Ky. —
Gov. Andy Beshear has issued an executive order to prevent the spread of COVID-19 this Easter.

During his daily press conference, Beshear said if anyone goes to mass gathering this weekend, such as church, that person’s license plate will be recorded by police.

That information will be forwarded to health departments and health officials will come to that person’s house with an order to self-quarantine for 14 days, he said.

“We absolutely cannot bring people together in one building like that. That's how the coronavirus spreads, and that's how people die,” Beshear said.

Louisville Mayor Greg Fischer echoed similar sentiments when asked about mass gatherings during Easter weekend. He also spoke about his stance on drive-in church services, saying the services could lead to the spread of the virus.
Boomers/flubros are lucky that Corona's fatality rate is still pretty low (1% to 5%) versus the regular flu's (0.1 to 0.2%) rate.

If this was even 10% as deadly as fictional super diseases like Captain Trips or "Contagion's" superflu, active measures would be undertaken to contain it.

You don't want to know what "active measures" consist of.

PS: This is why I can't stand Stephen King's "The Stand", everyone in it is dumber than a pack of rocks.
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong

"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by mr friendly guy »

MKSheppard wrote: 2020-04-10 08:57pm
mr friendly guy wrote: 2020-04-10 08:21pmSo this article actually reveals more than the reports previously. Good find Shep. Previously I knew that countries have purchased from a non approved government supplier and then cried foul. It seems they purchase antibody detection kits instead of PCR. :D
I think what's happening is the naked rogue capitalism prevalent in CCP is trying to scam/make a quick buck off desperate foreign customers who don't know any better: e.g. the mask grades (Hospital/General Public) thing.

This isn't good for Chinese public image globally, and will accelerate "decoupling" from Chinese producers for critical items.
I think a lot of companies are in it because of increase demand and lets make a quick buck. Now Joe Average might not know better, but you would expect a company in charge of procurement of medical supplies should know better. The Spanish company didn't even check if the company they purchased testing kits from were Chinese government approved.

It may lead to a decoupling of Chinese producers for medical supplies, and there is two points I want to make. Easier said then done. Look at rare earths. There is some decoupling, but China still holds more than 50% of the supply (last I checked it was in the 70s or so percent). Secondly, I think its possible for rich Western nations to make their own in good quantities (rich Asian nations already do), but I think there will still be demand for Chinese medical products like ventilators, PPEs from poorer and developing nations like South American ones, and African nations, or as I describe them, as the next generation of consumers for Chinese products. :D
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

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MKSheppard wrote: 2020-04-10 08:57pm
mr friendly guy wrote: 2020-04-10 08:21pmSo this article actually reveals more than the reports previously. Good find Shep. Previously I knew that countries have purchased from a non approved government supplier and then cried foul. It seems they purchase antibody detection kits instead of PCR. :D
I think what's happening is the naked rogue capitalism prevalent in CCP is trying to scam/make a quick buck off desperate foreign customers who don't know any better: e.g. the mask grades (Hospital/General Public) thing.

This isn't good for Chinese public image globally, and will accelerate "decoupling" from Chinese producers for critical items.
Ain't gonna happen as long as we're run by beancounters & MBAs instead of engineers and tech people. I used to work in manufacturing, given the choice between sourcing a Chinesium bearing that cost 1/5th as much as a Swedish or German one but only last 1/10th as long and results in equipment breakages and downtime when it dies, the beancounters will source the Chinese shit every time. Fucking retards.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

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aerius wrote: 2020-04-10 10:09pmAin't gonna happen as long as we're run by beancounters & MBAs instead of engineers and tech people. I used to work in manufacturing, given the choice between sourcing a Chinesium bearing that cost 1/5th as much as a Swedish or German one but only last 1/10th as long and results in equipment breakages and downtime when it dies, the beancounters will source the Chinese shit every time. Fucking retards.
People don't die when a Chinesium bearing in a random piece of equipment breaks, shutting down a production line. People do die when N95/surgical masks end up being chinesium.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by mr friendly guy »

I came across this Vox article which explains advantages and disadvantages of antibody testing vs PCR testing.

I was actually interested to see if anyone has documented how long it takes antibodies against COVID to form. The Vox mentions a few days, which is typical for lots of infections, but not COVID specific. Fun fact, some diseases like HIV takes a long time to form antibodies, so that's why its traditionally retested 3 months later if the test is negative.

https://www.vox.com/2020/3/30/21186822/ ... r-antibody
Serological tests use blood serum, the liquid part of blood, excluding cells and clotting proteins. Even though SARS-CoV-2 isn’t typically present in blood, an infection causes white blood cells to make antibody proteins that help the immune system identify viruses and stop them, or mark infected cells for destruction.

Although these proteins can be detected in the bloodstream and blood serum, it can take several days for someone to make these antibodies after an infection. So a serological test isn’t always useful for finding an active infection — and can yield a false negative, showing that someone doesn’t have the virus when they actually do. The results of these tests can also be trickier to interpret than results from the more common RT-PCR tests used to diagnose Covid-19, which detect the virus’s genetic material.

But antibodies can linger long after an infection has faded. That’s why serological tests for antibodies can identify past cases of the virus.

“That’s a great screening tool to figure out what proportion of our patient population had it or what proportion of our hospital staff has been exposed to it,” said David Pride, associate director of microbiology at the University of California San Diego.
So if European procurers were buying Chinese antibody tests and expecting them to detect it early like PCR tests, then they fucked up. Kudos to that article Shep posted to at least explain this was the type of product they were purchasing rather than going like other media, Chinese goods suck.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by Napoleon the Clown »

LaCroix wrote: 2020-04-10 05:13pm There are a lots of reports surfacing the last few days that while people do not test positive for the virus, a lot do have antibodies. A sizeble part of the population, in fact.

This raises the question - are we in the second wave? Like back then, with the spanish flu?

The first wave of that was kind of deadly, already, but that was in a society with pretty much no medicine we would consider modern. Any flu was more deadly, back then. A few months later, it mutated and hell broke loose.

I remember having a really nasty cold back in movember/december. Constant light fever, dry cough. No sneezing, though. Took two weeks to get over it. Lots of people had that.

What if that was the first wave, and this is the mutated form?
Unlikely. We don't have any sort of numbers on how accurate the antibody testing being used is. Based off the stuff I see on Twitter (from people who are familiar with the subject of tests) there's a very real chance that a lot of positives will be false positives. I saw a tweet with some more solid figures several days ago and I don't recall the exact numbers or the account tweeting it. The important point, though, is that the false positive rate can be high enough to make the test unable to reliably tell us whether or not someone has actually had the disease. Maybe 95% of positive tests really do mean you've got antibodies. Maybe it's only 70%. Or less.

Based off the current rate of spread, I highly doubt that it has been quietly spreading and we got a relatively recent mutation that resulted in a drastic change in how serious it was. Flu-like symptoms during flu season? Probably had a strain of the flu or a particularly nasty cold. SARS-CoV-2 has had a remarkably slow rate of mutation so far. Yeah, there are people who have it or have had it that either never got tested and recovered or did get tested, the test was a false negative, they recovered, and now they think they never had it. I highly doubt that it's something like 30% of the population, though.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

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CNN
Africans in Guangzhou are on edge, after many are left homeless amid rising xenophobia as China fights a second wave of coronavirus
CNN Digital Expansion 2017. Jenni Marsh
By Jenni Marsh, Shawn Deng and Nectar Gan, CNN

Updated 0741 GMT (1541 HKT) April 11, 2020
Racism and xenophobia are on the rise as the coronavirus spreads
Source: CNN

Racism and xenophobia are on the rise as the coronavirus spreads 05:56
Hong Kong (CNN)The African community in Guangzhou is on edge after widespread accounts were shared on social media of people being left homeless this week, as China's warnings against imported coronavirus cases stoke anti-foreigner sentiment.

In the southern Chinese city, Africans have been evicted from their homes by landlords and turned away from hotels, despite many claiming to have no recent travel history or known contact with Covid-19 patients.
CNN interviewed more than two dozen Africans living in Guangzhou many of whom told of the same experiences: being left without a home, being subject to random testing for Covid-19, and being quarantined for 14 days in their homes, despite having no symptoms or contact with known patients.
Health authorities in Guangdong ​province and the Guangzhou Public Security Bureau did not respond to CNN's request for comment.
The move comes amid heightened media coverage of the so-called second wave of coronavirus cases, emanating from infections outside of China. Earlier this week, Chinese President Xi Jinping urged authorities to carefully watch for imported cases from ​other countries, state news agency Xinhua reported.
But one aspect of the data has received relatively less public attention: on March 26, Vice Minister of Foreign Affairs Luo Zhaohui said 90% of China's imported cases held Chinese passports.
On Thursday afternoon, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian said: "Since the beginning of the coronavirus outbreak, China and African countries have always supported each other and have always fought against the virus jointly.
"I would like to emphasize that the Chinese government treats all foreigners in China equally, opposes any differentiated practices targeted at specific groups of people, and has zero tolerance for discriminatory words and actions."
Cases spark a backlash
Guangzhou has long had the largest African community in China. Because many Africans in the city have short-term business visas, they travel into China several times a year, making it difficult to calculate the size of the African population the city. But in 2017, approximately 320,000 Africans entered or left China through Guangzhou, according to Xinhua.
African residents say local hostility to their presence is nothing new. But when coronavirus cases emerged in the African community this month it served to amplify existing tensions.
An African in Guangzhou is tested for coronvirus at his apartment.
A report on April 4 alleged that a Nigerian national with Covid-19 had attacked a Chinese nurse who tried to stop him leaving an isolation ward at a Guangzhou hospital​. The report was shared widely on social media, and local Africans CNN spoke to say a racist backlash against the African community ​followed.
Then on April 7, Guangzhou authorities said five Nigerians had tested positive for Covid-19.
Fearing a cluster among the African community, Guangzhou authorities upgraded the risk level of Yuexiu and Baiyun, the areas home to the city's two African enclaves, from low to medium, state-owned Global Times reported.
​The local government Tuesday reported 111 imported cases of Covid-19 in Guangzhou, with 28 patients from the UK and 18 from the US. In interviews with CNN, Americans and British nationals in Guangzhou said they had not heard reports of forced testing, home evictions and additional quarantine measures being imposed on members of their communities.
On Saturday, however, the US Consulate in Guangzhou warned African-Americans to avoid travel to the city.
"In response to an increase in Covid-19 infections, officials in the Guangzhou metropolitan area escalated scrutiny of foreign nationals," the consulate said in a statement. "As part of this campaign, police ordered bars and restaurants not to serve clients who appear to be of African origin. Moreover, local officials launched a round of mandatory tests for Covid-19, followed by mandatory self-quarantine, for anyone with 'African contacts,' regardless of recent travel history or previous quarantine completion.
"African-Americans have also reported that some businesses and hotels refuse to do business with them."
Homeless in Guangzhou
On March 21, Nigerian goods trader Chuk, who did not want to use his full name for fear of government reprisals, flew back to Guangzhou, his home since 2009. With China's coronavirus cases seemingly under control, he wanted to resume his trading business, which had been stymied by the pandemic.
The area around Guangzhou is a manufacturing heartland, where many Africans buy cheap goods to sell back home.
Chuk returned seven days before China closed its borders to most foreign nationals, but upon arrival, he says he was told that he needed to enter government quarantine at a hotel for two weeks.
As a trader, Chuk travels frequently, and is accustomed to staying in hotels during his time in China.
But on Tuesday, Chuk says that when he was released, along with about 15 other Africans, with a clean bill of health, they effectively became homeless.
Africans sleeping on the street in Guangzhou, after being unable to find shelter.
Africans sleeping on the street in Guangzhou, after being unable to find shelter.
"We went to the hotel with the certificate, but we were rejected," he said. The group went to the police station to report that hotels were refusing to let Africans stay, but "they refused to talk to us."
The Guangzhou Public Security Bureau, which oversees the police, did not respond to CNN's request for comment about events described by anyone CNN interviewed.
Chuk says he had no choice but to sleep rough for two nights, before finding a friend's couch to crash on. "Rain fell that day and the next and we were all drenched and our belongings soaked," he said.
His story was echoed by others who spoke to CNN.
Earlier this week, images began circulating online of rows of Africans sleeping on the streets of Guangzhou, beside their luggage, having either been evicted from their apartments or been turned away from hotels. Other videos showed police harassing Africans on the street.
A video of Africans in San Yuan Li, in Guangzhou, shot on April 9, 2020.
On Thursday, CNN called 12 hotels in Guangzhou, wanting to book a room for an African guest, and was informed by 10 that they would not be "accepting foreign guests anymore."
Meanwhile, multiple Africans CNN spoke to reported being abruptly evicted from their homes.
No one had evidence of a government directive asking landlords or hotels to turn away or reject foreigners. Rather, they say, these appeared to be decisions made by private individuals and business owners.
On Wednesday, Nigerian trader Nonso, whose name has been changed to protect his identity due to fear of government reprisals, says he and his girlfriend received a message from their landlord at 7 p.m. on WeChat, a Chinese messaging app, saying they needed to vacate their flat by 8 p.m.. "I told him I can't vacate in one hour," said Nonso, who pays 1,500 yuan ($212) a month for his apartment in the Nanhai, on the outskirts of Guangzhou, and has lived in China for three years.
At 10 p.m. he says his landlord came to the flat and cut off the electricity and water supply.
"I asked them, what did I do? I've paid rent until September with two months' deposit. They didn't give me any reason," he said.
Nonso called the police, who let them ​remain in the apartment for the night. But in the morning, ​Nonso says the landlord returned with a different officer, who said he had to leave. ​Nonso says he has struggled to find a new apartment to rent. "We have contacted a lot of agents none of them are leasing to black foreigners," he said.
Volunteers in Guangzhou give out food and supplies to Africans.
Chris Leslie, also from Nigeria, said he was abruptly evicted from his Guangzhou apartment on Thursday, despite not defaulting on his rent and having a valid contract. He had nowhere to sleep that night. "I will just hang out outside," he said. "It is so pathetic. In a country where people don't accept you and they criticize, this is just a bitter humiliation. The most important thing is having somewhere to sleep."
On Thursday, several volunteer groups emerged on WeChat, mostly populated by scores of other foreigners, rallying around the displaced Africans, organizing food, masks and sanitation products for those left wandering the streets of Guangzhou without a bed.
Katie Smith, an American living in Guangzhou with her Moroccan boyfriend, made two deliveries to newly homeless Africans on Thursday. Her name has been changed to protect her identity, as she, too, fears reprisal from local authorities.
"As we drove down the street we saw a lot of Africans walking around," said Smith. "The police came and said they couldn't stay there. They're not letting them gather in groups. So they're just walking up and down the streets with nowhere to go."
Videos filmed by a member of one of the WeChat volunteer groups, seen by CNN, shows police trying to prevent volunteers from helping the Africans.
"As a black person living in China right now it's pretty scary," said one volunteer who didn't want their name to be reported for similar reasons, said via WeChat. "Don't use the African/black community as a scapegoat for the virus."
Imported cases discrimination
The five Nigerians confirmed to have Covid-19 had been to eight restaurants, nine hotels and 12 public places before testing positive, according to the state-run Global Times.
Since then, Africans across Guangdong province have reported being tested in their homes, despite having no recent travel history or contact with a Covid-19 patient.
Maano Gaasite, an international student from Botswana at a Guangzhou university, said that at 3 p.m. on Sunday she received a WeChat message from her course administrator saying she needed to be tested, despite having not left China for over six months.
An African restaurant in the San Yuan Li area of Guangzhou, near where five Nigerians tested positive for the virus.
An African restaurant in the San Yuan Li area of Guangzhou, near where five Nigerians tested positive for the virus.
"It was only when I got there I realized it was only African students. There are other students from India (in my halls of residence, but) they were all not there. Just our small community (of Africans)," she said. The officials took a swab from the back of her throat and said they would call if she had the virus. She never heard back.
As a student, Gaasite says she has no contact with the Nigerian trading community.
Meanwhile, in Shenzhen, a city about 140 kilometers (87 miles) south of Guangzhou, Youssouf, a Senegalese man who did not want to disclose his surname for security reasons, said that at 1 p.m. on Wednesday, the Chinese authorities came to the apartment he shares with his Canadian wife in a compound with many foreign residents.
Police come to the house of an African resident in Beijing.
Police come to the house of an African resident in Beijing.
"They knocked on the door. A guy showed me his phone with my full address, my full name and my country," said Youssouf. He told Youssouf to go to hospital by 5 p.m. to get tested. Youssouf asked if they also wanted to test his Canadian wife. Neither of the couple had left China in the past 12 months.
"They said, 'No we are just testing Africans,'" Youssouf said. Canada has more than 20,000 confirmed cases of coronavirus and is on the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs' list of high-risk countries.
The Shenzhen municipal health commission did not respond to CNN's request for comment.
"African people are not welcome in China. We've been discriminated against repeatedly," he said.
Africans in China have long complained of racism, in the form of Chinese people holding their noses as they walk past, racially offensive adverts on television, and Chinese actors performing in blackface in a nationwide gala.
Earlier this year, when Beijing proposed changes to its immigration laws around permanent residency, a backlash emerged on Chinese social media site Weibo against Africans. Many of the comments have since been removed from the platform.
Africans stand in front of the Don Franc hotel in Guangzhou, before the coronavirus crisis.
Africans stand in front of the Don Franc hotel in Guangzhou, before the coronavirus crisis.
Africans on lockdown
Smith, the American expat who helped coordinate the food drop, lives in Guangzhou with her Moroccan boyfriend.
In late February, the couple went on holiday to Malaysia. She returned on March 17, and says she was was asked to self-isolate at home for 14 days. He returned on March 25, and says he went into a government quarantine facility, paying 400 yuan ($56) a night at a designated hotel, and emerged on Wednesday after testing negative twice.
On Thursday, health authorities came to the couple's flat and said that Smith's partner, who did not want to be identified in this piece, would have to quarantine at home for 14 days because all Africans in the city were being put on lockdown, Smith says.
Smith says her employer, an international school in Guangzhou, was informed on Thursday that all Africans needed to go into lockdown, as it has several South African employees. CNN has spoken to several other Africans who were visited by authorities on Thursday and told they needed to quarantine at home for 14 days. They say police put alarms on their front doors, which will alert officials if they leave home.
There have been no public statements confirming or refuting the existence of an official policy about these measures.
Smith was told if she chose not to live in the apartment she shares with her African boyfriend, who has twice tested negative for the virus, she would not have to quarantine. "There's resentment in Guangzhou that a lot of Africans are perceived to be here illegally and that they overstay," said Smith. "There's been a push in Guangzhou to get them out. This has been an easy excuse to push this community out."
Police come to the house of an African resident in Beijing.
Police come to the house of an African resident in Beijing.
When the authorities came to Peter Busari's Guangzhou apartment on Wednesday to test him, he filmed the exchange and went live on Facebook. That footage shows officials also asking to see his passport and checking his visa.
Wang Wei, a PhD candidate at the University of Hong Kong, who has been studying the African community in Guangzhou for several years, said testing Africans gave the government a chance to conduct a mass checking of passports, too.
"It threatens the undocumented Africans," he said. "Officially, African foreigners (in Guangzhou) decrease every year but we all know that undocumented Africans still live in this circle doing business underground or through brokers. But because of the pandemic they will become exposed."
Those caught overstaying their visas will be taken into police custody, asked to pay a 10,000 yuan ($1,421) fine and often charged for their airfare back to their home country, said Wang.
Roberto Castillo, an assistant professor at Lingnan University, who has researched the African community in Guangzhou for nearly a decade, says the Yuexiu district where the Nigerian Covid-19 cases were found has "historically been a place where the African community is in more tension with the authorities," and was a troubled site during the Ebola crisis of 2014, when Africans of all nationalities were stopped and checked, regardless of whether they were from affected nations.
The African migrants giving up on the Chinese dream
The African migrants giving up on the Chinese dream
In 2009, a riot among Africans was sparked in Yuexiu after a Nigerian man who was rumored to be undocumented was injured jumping from a building to avoid a passport check.
Africans in Guangzhou have been encouraged to leave the city in recent years through a series of immigration policies, economic developments and heightened policing.
Meanwhile, on Thursday reports emerged from Africans in China that the crackdown on Africans is wider than Guangzhou. One Ghanaian family in Beijing, with no recent travel history or contact with Covid-19, reported that police came to their apartment in the early hours of Thursday morning and ordered them to leave. The Ghanaian embassy in Beijing confirmed that two Ghanaian nationals were currently seeking refuge there, but declined to comment. Africans in Chengdu and Fujian province also told CNN they had been visited by community officials.
China-Africa relations
"Why are we being discriminated against like this? Are there no Chinese in Africa?" one African is heard asking a Chinese policemen on the street in Guangzhou, in a video shot on Thursday evening, as many faced another night sleeping rough on the streets of the city.
It is a question that speaks to the implications a crackdown on Africans in China could have on Beijing's bilateral relations with governments on the continent, which they have courted with investments for decades and where anti-Chinese sentiment is already rumbling. About 1 million Chinese are estimated to be living in Africa.
On Twitter, one user noted that Kenya allowed a plane of Chinese nationals to land in Nairobi, at the height of China's crisis, but when the virus reached Africa the same compassion had not been shown in Guangzhou.

Geoffrey Onyeama

@GeoffreyOnyeama
Invited the Chinese Ambassador to Nigeria, Mr Zhou Pingjian to communicate @NigeriaGov's extreme concern at allegations of maltreatment of Nigerians in Guangzhou, #China and called for immediate Chinese Govt. intervention. 🇳🇬🇨🇳#StayHomeSaveLives #COVID19 @DigiCommsNG @NigeriaMFA

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On late Thursday night, local time in Abuja, Nigerian Foreign Affairs Minister Geoffrey Onyeama tweeted that he had invited the Chinese Ambassador to Nigeria Zhou Pingjian to communicate his government's "extreme concern at allegations of maltreatment of Nigerians in Guangzhou."
China has been trying to position itself as a friend to African states, as they battle the virus. Li Mingzhu, an official at the National Health Commission, said earlier this month that China has been sending medical teams to African countries for 57 years and would continue to offer help to African countries to improve their ability in combating the novel coronavirus outbreak.
But not all African nations are satisfied with that.

Blessings Ramoba 🇿🇦
@BlessingsRamoba
The South African economy has already lost billions of rands due to Wuhan Virus. The Chinese govt must cancel the debt owed by South Africa as a sign of remorse.

Where is South Africa going get money to pay them back, in addition to causing the deaths of our innocent citizens?

10:55 AM - Mar 31, 2020
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Ghana's finance minister called on China to ease African countries' debt burden earlier this month, while on March 31, Blessings Ramoba, President of Mining Forum of South Africa, tweeted that the coronavirus had caused the South African economy to lose "billions of rand." "The Chinese govt (sic) must cancel the debt owed by South Africa as a sign of remorse," he said.
Zhao Lijian, the Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson, addressed the matter of debt earlier this week, saying: "I believe China will resolve these countries' difficulties via consultation through diplomatic channels."
Castillo said one reason the Chinese might be cracking down on Africans in Guangzhou is because they don't trust the low numbers being reported by various nations. But to acknowledge that could be diplomatically awkward.
"It's already a PR mess for China," said Castillo. "When they're doing this to foreigners, it's just exacerbating the negativity."
So, this is apparently happening in China.
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Ralin
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by Ralin »

Yeah, word about that has been circulating in expat groups on Wechat for awhile, along with less extreme stuff happening to white foreigners. It's really terrible. Hopefully the national government will step in soon.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by FaxModem1 »

So, a coworker of mine, also 'essential' like me. Due to his lack of vehicle, took rides from a friend of his. Friend may have been exposed to the virus, so coworker is forced to be taking next couple of weeks off. So, this is starting to hit where I live. We'll see what happens next.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by chimericoncogene »

Racism is entrenched as frick in East Asia. Liberal, conservative, commie, social democrat, very old, middle-aged, young... pretty much pervasive across the entire demographic and political spectrum. I've seen whole medical teams (doctors old and young, nurses, social workers, et al - and this is what passes for a liberal, well-educated demographic over here) make horribly racist jokes throughout meetings from one end to the other.

The problem is a relative lack of exposure, and a lack of sensitivity towards the issue. East Asian nations are ethnically relatively homogeneous, with majority ethnic groups accounting for >90% of local populations.

On the other hand, I have a hard time picturing East Asians yelling racial slurs at, beating up, throwing corona beer cans at, or otherwise trying to intimidate Africans (may or may not have happened out of sight, though; since East Asians seem to have no problems trying to lynch mainland Chinese, I think it may just be because Europeans, Africans and Indians are on average taller and more intimidating than the average East Asian). As far as I can tell, racism in East Asia tends to be polite and non-violent: holding up noses is very much the far end of what I would expect. Choosing to stand instead of taking a seat next to people of color (or next to Caucasians rudely failing to wear masks when 95+% of the population is wearing a frickkin' surgical mask - might be an observer bias, but everyone around me seems to agree it's true...), or standing a little far off from them, is pretty much the standard. Oh, and of course the song and dance of systematic and unconscionable discrimination in the workplace, service, and housing - and government action in place of vigilante racism...

This is probably not a better state of affairs than racism in the more racist parts of the West, but if you particularly dislike being beaten up or threatened physically, then a different value judgement may be made. I have a hunch that this different value judgement is pretty much why Asians are often so shocked by racism in North America and Europe - they "expect" "polite" discrimination and believe everyone is internally racist (YMMV regarding whether this is true); yelling slurs at other people in the street, on the other hand, is beyond their imagination.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by loomer »

More voices on the pandemic being a consequence of anthropocentrism. Jane Goodall and Andrew Peters now. It's becoming increasingly clear to me that the ecojurisprudential school of legal theory is going to be one of the most crucial developments of the next decade.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by Solauren »

aerius wrote: 2020-04-10 10:09pm Ain't gonna happen as long as we're run by beancounters & MBAs instead of engineers and tech people. I used to work in manufacturing, given the choice between sourcing a Chinesium bearing that cost 1/5th as much as a Swedish or German one but only last 1/10th as long and results in equipment breakages and downtime when it dies, the beancounters will source the Chinese shit every time. Fucking retards.
Thus, building in a 'need replacement' market as well.

This is why nothing lasts anymore. Short term financial by sacrificing long-term stability and utility.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by mr friendly guy »

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 58796.html
Coronavirus: Doctor who warned Boris Johnson about lack of protective equipment dies from Covid-19
‘We have to protect ourselves and our families’

Harriet Sinclair @sinclair_h
1 day ago
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A consultant who warned Boris Johnson about the need for more personal protective equipment (PPE) to support NHS staff during the coronavirus crisis has died from the disease.

Abdul Mabud Chowdhury, 53, made a direct plea to the prime minister in a Facebook post last month, when he asked Mr Johnson to “ensure urgently personal protective equipment (PPE) for each and every NHS worker”.

Mr Chowdhury, who worked as a consultant urologist at Homerton Hospital in east London, said in his post: “People appreciate us and salute us for our rewarding job which are very inspirational but I would like to say we have to protect ourselves and our families/kids in this global disaster/crisis by using appropriate PPE and remedies.”


The prime minister, who is currently being treated for Covid-19 at St Thomas’ Hospital in London, has repeatedly come under pressure to address the issue of PPE being made available to all frontline workers tackling the pandemic.

In late March, 3,963 doctors penned an open letter in The Sunday Times, saying that they were “putting their lives on the line every day” by working without adequate protection.

“Intensive care doctors and anaesthetists have told us they have been carrying out the highest-risk procedure, putting a patient on a ventilator, with masks that expired in 2015,” the letter said.

It came despite the communities secretary Robert Jenrick insisting at the time that good progress was being made on securing PPE for frontline staff.

Mr Chowdhury died on Wednesday after contracting coronavirus, and was praised by his friend and fellow doctor Golam Rahat Khan as a “life-loving person”.

“He liked singing and liked our own Bengali culture and loved English heritage,” Dr Khan said.

“He was so caring, he would call us very often to come to his house. I last saw him on February 1 at my house for my son’s eighth birthday.”
The British government has a great strategy which they copied from Trump. Blame China rather than their own incompetence. I hear from British media they still can't provide PPEs. Mr Chowdhury warned them on march 18. Its almost one month since then.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by Jub »

Canadian health officials have basically thrown up their hands about the mask issue. They're still saying exactly what they've always said about them (that they do jack and shit to protect you from Covid-19 or any other virus) but that they may help slow the spread if you yourself are a carrier.

https://globalnews.ca/news/6786043/bonn ... Z8-7Ea2S-c

In other news, the Canadian numbers are looking surprisingly good still. ~22,000 confirmed cases, from ~400,000 people tested, with 16 deaths per million across Canada. It's even better in BC with ~11 deaths per million and a very well handled curve.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by bilateralrope »

Coronavirus: Vaccine could be available by September, Oxford professor says
A coronavirus vaccine could be available for the general public by September, an Oxford professor has claimed.

Sarah Gilbert, a professor of vaccinology at Oxford University in the UK, is leading a team of researchers in the development of a vaccine that would protect the world against coronavirus.

In an interview with The Times, the professor said that she and her team have already created a potential vaccine that is due to begin human trials within two weeks.

She told the paper she is "80 per cent" confident of its success, "based on other things that we have done with this type of vaccine".

Most industry experts say that a vaccine could take as long as 18 months to be developed and distributed globally.
Is this too much to hope for ?
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by Zaune »

bilateralrope wrote: 2020-04-11 04:43pmIs this too much to hope for?
Probably, but you never know.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by mr friendly guy »

bilateralrope wrote: 2020-04-11 04:43pm
Is this too much to hope for ?
Considering China and the US are already testing their vaccines while this professor still hasn't started, and they don't predict a vaccine available by September, I am incline to think she is being optimistic, but we can only hope.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by Napoleon the Clown »

Here are some Twitter threads on the statistics of the testing situation. The directly linked tweet, as well as the quoted tweet, contain a breakdown of the math.

The tl;dr of it is that we need a much lower false positive rate than ~4.4%. At the described test's ~4.4% false positive rate, we can expect more false positives than true positives unless the true number of infections is way higher than we think it is.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by bilateralrope »

mr friendly guy wrote: 2020-04-11 07:48pm
bilateralrope wrote: 2020-04-11 04:43pm
Is this too much to hope for ?
Considering China and the US are already testing their vaccines while this professor still hasn't started, and they don't predict a vaccine available by September, I am incline to think she is being optimistic, but we can only hope.
Optimistic for her vaccine, sure. But what's the likely timeline on someone creating and properly testing a vaccine ?
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by The Romulan Republic »

US has passed Italy for highest death toll of any country in the world.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by Zaune »

bilateralrope wrote: 2020-04-11 08:33pmOptimistic for her vaccine, sure. But what's the likely timeline on someone creating and properly testing a vaccine?
How long's a piece of string? The virus is still new enough that a lot of the information needed to start developing a vaccine -most notably how fast new strains of it develop- isn't nailed down beyond reasonable doubt yet. Folding@Home and Rosetta@Home are putting on big recruitment drives specifically to speed up the task of firming up the numbers.
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