The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by Broomstick »

ray245 wrote: 2020-04-12 08:16am
Broomstick wrote: 2020-04-12 07:05am The CDC does not actually have the authority to stop states doing their own testing, and in fact states have gone ahead with their own testing. The FDA has some authority, but in practice the Feds couldn't be bothered to get off their ass and do anything if a state was determined to push ahead.
Fair, but have states dared to ignore the federal government in regards to testing?
Don't know. Have not looked into that so I can not provide an answer to your very good question.
ray245 wrote: 2020-04-12 08:16am
Broomstick wrote: 2020-04-12 07:05amGovernors have the authority to shut down airports, commercial bus stations, and the like outside of Federal transport (like the post office). That would, effectively, shut down incoming international travel for that state. But I'm sure you can see the issue if, say, New York shut all that down but New Jersey was still allowing international flights, after which people could travel by road into New York. Shutting down roads into and out of a state is a bit problematic. In theory, it could be done under the aegis of a public emergency. Suffice to say it's never come up since the era of the interstate highway system.

The biggest problem are the folks screaming about individual rights and freedoms with a complete lack of understanding of why they might need to be temporarily restricted for the benefit of all.
It would prevent Americans from coming back home though? Or they will just find alternative routes to go back home.
It depends. I doubt we could actually completely seal the border because there is so damn much border, and lots of territory besides. You could probably prevent people from entering New York City by air or sea directly, but if someone can fly into, say, Wyoming, they can make their way by road elsewhere. Land in Canada and you can probably sneak across the border into the US if you're willing to plan a little and stick to little roads, back roads, side roads.... I am not going to talk in a public forum about how to use a small airplane to sneak across an international border even if I do have some ideas about how to do it because that can attract the sort of attention I'd just as soon avoid. Or give less savory people ideas.

You can certainly slow down the influx of people by a very large amount, though, by closing down airports, seaports, putting checkpoints on main roads, etc.
As for folks who scream about individual rights, those would still be a minority? A significant minority, but sooner or later they will have to go along if there is nothing to do in the city squares and etc.
A minority yes, but there's considerable overlap with the heavy armed nutjob contingent.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by MKSheppard »

Broomstick wrote: 2020-04-12 06:13pmI am not at all certain that ANY state could do that. Maybe one of the geographically smaller ones like Rhode Island, but even there it's problematic.
I posted a few posts above. Locate the key interstates for that state. Drive heavy trucks crosswise on road, use gradall to deploy concrete jersey barriers. Leave.

People will still be able to use side roads, but local police can be alerted to be on the lookout for out of state plates, with E.O. from the governor to treat out of state plates as equivalent to 100 MPH speeding. :angelic:
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by aerius »

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKCN21U0O7?
Smithfield shutting U.S. pork plant indefinitely, warns of meat shortages during pandemic

CHICAGO (Reuters) - Smithfield Foods, the world’s biggest pork processor, said on Sunday it will shut a U.S. plant indefinitely due to a rash of coronavirus cases among employees and warned the country was moving “perilously close to the edge” in supplies for grocers.

Slaughterhouse shutdowns are disrupting the U.S. food supply chain, crimping availability of meat at retail stores and leaving farmers without outlets for their livestock.

Smithfield extended the closure of its Sioux Falls, South Dakota, plant after initially saying it would idle temporarily for cleaning. The facility is one of the nation’s largest pork processing facilities, representing 4% to 5% of U.S. pork production, according to the company.

South Dakota Governor Kristi Noem said on Saturday that 238 Smithfield employees had active cases of the new coronavirus, accounting for 55% of the state’s total. Noem and the mayor of Sioux Falls had recommended the company shut the plant, which has about 3,700 workers, for at least two weeks.

“It is impossible to keep our grocery stores stocked if our plants are not running,” Smithfield Chief Executive Ken Sullivan said in a statement on Sunday. “These facility closures will also have severe, perhaps disastrous, repercussions for many in the supply chain, first and foremost our nation’s livestock farmers.”

Smithfield said it will resume operations in Sioux Falls after further direction from local, state and federal officials. The company will pay employees for the next two weeks, according to the statement.

The company has been running its plants to supply U.S. consumers during the outbreak, Sullivan said.

“We have a stark choice as a nation: we are either going to produce food or not, even in the face of COVID-19,” he said.

Other major U.S. meat and poultry processors, including Tyson Foods Inc (TSN.N), Cargill Inc [CARG.UL] and JBS USA [JBS.UL] have already idled plants in other states.
So we have meat & poultry processing plants getting shut down or idled all over the place. We better hope that it doesn't break the food supply chain or we're gonna have food rationing and bread lines for real.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by Broomstick »

MKSheppard wrote: 2020-04-12 08:16pm
Broomstick wrote: 2020-04-12 06:13pmI am not at all certain that ANY state could do that. Maybe one of the geographically smaller ones like Rhode Island, but even there it's problematic.
I posted a few posts above. Locate the key interstates for that state. Drive heavy trucks crosswise on road, use gradall to deploy concrete jersey barriers. Leave.

People will still be able to use side roads, but local police can be alerted to be on the lookout for out of state plates, with E.O. from the governor to treat out of state plates as equivalent to 100 MPH speeding. :angelic:
"People can use the side roads" is not blocking all the road access into a state. Blocking the interstates just screws up food transportation, it doesn't stop individuals from getting into and out of a state, especially the old farts who know how to read maps as opposed to needing a talking digital assistant and GPS to get around.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by Zaune »

MKSheppard wrote: 2020-04-12 08:16pmI posted a few posts above. Locate the key interstates for that state. Drive heavy trucks crosswise on road, use gradall to deploy concrete jersey barriers. Leave.

People will still be able to use side roads, but local police can be alerted to be on the lookout for out of state plates, with E.O. from the governor to treat out of state plates as equivalent to 100 MPH speeding. :angelic:
Assuming an executive order like that is even constitutional in the first place, the manpower to actually enforce it worth a damn is coming from where, exactly? Every patrol car detailed to watching the roads for quarantine violators is one that's not available to patrol Main Street to deter people from doing over all those shuttered stores, respond to all the cabin fever-fuelled domestic violence or fistfights in Wal-Mart over the last slab of decent beer and deal with all the other crap that's going on.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by bilateralrope »

Broomstick wrote: 2020-04-12 06:13pm Hawaii, of course, being the big exception - it's way the frack out in the middle of the Pacific. No roads from there to any other state
That's part of why New Zealand has a chance of getting rid of Covid19.

Unfortunately, we had another death. The third from a rest home cluster.
aerius wrote: 2020-04-12 08:55pm https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKCN21U0O7?
So we have meat & poultry processing plants getting shut down or idled all over the place. We better hope that it doesn't break the food supply chain or we're gonna have food rationing and bread lines for real.
How quickly can the workers from one plant be trained to work on another ?
What about training a temporary replacement from scratch ?

Because I'd want to be shifting healthy workers around and/or training up temporary replacements to limit the number that are closed at any one time.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by bilateralrope »

MKSheppard wrote: 2020-04-12 08:16pm I posted a few posts above. Locate the key interstates for that state. Drive heavy trucks crosswise on road, use gradall to deploy concrete jersey barriers. Leave.
Thing is, you'll want to keep those open to keep the trucks coming in. Especially those with essential supplies.

So checkpoints at those key interstate.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by loomer »

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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by loomer »

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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by Broomstick »

bilateralrope wrote: 2020-04-12 10:00pm
aerius wrote: 2020-04-12 08:55pm https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKCN21U0O7?
So we have meat & poultry processing plants getting shut down or idled all over the place. We better hope that it doesn't break the food supply chain or we're gonna have food rationing and bread lines for real.
How quickly can the workers from one plant be trained to work on another ?
What about training a temporary replacement from scratch ?

Because I'd want to be shifting healthy workers around and/or training up temporary replacements to limit the number that are closed at any one time.
Another wrinkle here is that a significant percentage of those workers are likely to be here illegally, and the Trump administration is still trying to enforce their notions about immigration during the global pandemic. This results in severe crowding in the living arrangements of workers, discourages workers from seeking medical treatment, and is going to make them less than eager to be involved in any official relocation/training of workers.

And because we just don't have enough goddamned reliable and available tests it is unlikely that we could find/establish a pool of uninfected workers.

This sort of food processing plant is part of the food chain, yes? And that's considered essential? Well, I'm fucking sorry but maybe the plant shouldn't shut down? I go to work every day in a supermarket where I come into contact every days with literally hundreds of people, We have ill coworkers right now, many awaiting covid-19 test results, and we don't shut down. We do have a competitor's local store that has shut down for a couple days for "deep cleaning" after a couple workers came up positive but they plan to re-open as soon as possible. Why would a meat packing plant be any less essential? We might have to run it with fewer people and a slower pace, but I am goddamned sorry, explain to me why this plant shuts down "indefinitely" when the grocery stores don't. It can't be because the owners are so fucking worried about their employees because they treat the employees like shit in those places which might be a factor in why they had that large of an outbreak

They initially said they'd close the plant for two weeks for cleaning and for the employees to go through quarantine. Why change to an "indefinite" closure? And why phrase it in that way? (Later in the article the CEO says he'll consult with "local, state and federal officials", which sounds less ominous than a phrased often associated with a permanent closure of a business)

Here's the other thing: for months pork has been the cheapest meat in our store.

I think profits are down and these guys are angling for a big-buck bailout. Fuck 'em. Rolling shutdowns of slaughterhouses might be needed but that's a far cry from "there will be no more meat".
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by Broomstick »

loomer wrote: 2020-04-13 01:16am Turns out Mossad has been playing a pivotal role in Israel's COVID-19 response. I'm shocked, simply shocked I tell you.
I detect sarcasm.

But, honestly, if you know anything about Israel the country no, this is not at all a surprise. They won't refrain from using any tool in their toolbox. They don't care if anyone else approves or not, and they're not going to ask anyone's permission.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by MKSheppard »

Well, let's see when a SINGLE plant produces 55% of South Dakota's confirmed Corona cases...

....And about 6% of the entire plant (283 or so out of 3700 workers) is infected, despite PPE and regular cleanings (USDA regs require marginal PPE when you're slaughtering and handling meat. Plus everything is stainless and is bleached regularly).

Plus, they may have run through South Dakota's entire pool of readily available illegal immigrants, and refuse to raise their payscale to:

A.) Attract legal South Dakotans
B.) Keep people working there during a Pandemic
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by MKSheppard »

Another option for Smithfield:

A local board of health was about to shut them down, since their protective measures weren't working; so they shut down to get "good PR" instead of the "bad PR" of "shut by board of health for unsafe practices".
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

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MKSheppard wrote: 2020-04-13 07:23am Another option for Smithfield:

A local board of health was about to shut them down, since their protective measures weren't working; so they shut down to get "good PR" instead of the "bad PR" of "shut by board of health for unsafe practices".
That is my reading of the situation. People sneezing into good packaging is bad for future sales
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by Broomstick »

MKSheppard wrote: 2020-04-13 07:11am Well, let's see when a SINGLE plant produces 55% of South Dakota's confirmed Corona cases...
Given the average population density of South Dakota it's not surprising their outbreaks would be patchy. You're not going to find massive outbreaks among ranchers and other isolated people, you're going to find it where a lot of people are concentrated. Like in a massive factory.
MKSheppard wrote: 2020-04-13 07:11am....And about 6% of the entire plant (283 or so out of 3700 workers) is infected, despite PPE and regular cleanings (USDA regs require marginal PPE when you're slaughtering and handling meat. Plus everything is stainless and is bleached regularly).

Plus, they may have run through South Dakota's entire pool of readily available illegal immigrants, and refuse to raise their payscale to:

A.) Attract legal South Dakotans
B.) Keep people working there during a Pandemic
And that right there is a big part of the problem: they aren't willing to spend sufficient money to make this a safe place to work that doesn't rely on the exploitation of illegal labor to generate profits. And I bet you they''ll be asking for a handout next.

You know what? If producing meat products in a safe, sanitary, non-exploitative manner makes the cost of meat go up so be it. Maybe Americans won't be able to afford as much meat but, you know what? Eating less meat would make the average American healthier and be better for the planet. Cry me a river. As I mentioned, pork has become the cheap meat because they've been cutting corners and exploiting people. That should have been fixed long ago. It wasn't, and I see no reason to reward the bastards in charge.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by loomer »

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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by ray245 »

Broomstick wrote: 2020-04-13 09:59am And that right there is a big part of the problem: they aren't willing to spend sufficient money to make this a safe place to work that doesn't rely on the exploitation of illegal labor to generate profits. And I bet you they''ll be asking for a handout next.

You know what? If producing meat products in a safe, sanitary, non-exploitative manner makes the cost of meat go up so be it. Maybe Americans won't be able to afford as much meat but, you know what? Eating less meat would make the average American healthier and be better for the planet. Cry me a river. As I mentioned, pork has become the cheap meat because they've been cutting corners and exploiting people. That should have been fixed long ago. It wasn't, and I see no reason to reward the bastards in charge.
Yeah, we do not really to eat that much meat.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by madd0ct0r »

BAME are disproprtionetly showing up in the UK stats too. Current physiological theory is link to genetic diabetes, current sociological theory is larger mixed generation households makes the virus more likely to find vulnerable people. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... -people-uk
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by madd0ct0r »

shep, thus might be an interesting graph to trail for nyc.

https://mobile.twitter.com/JeffTaylorUK ... 96/photo/1
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by Broomstick »

madd0ct0r wrote: 2020-04-13 04:46pm
BAME are disproprtionetly showing up in the UK stats too. Current physiological theory is link to genetic diabetes, current sociological theory is larger mixed generation households makes the virus more likely to find vulnerable people. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... -people-uk
Don't discount grinding poverty, neglect by the mainstream society, generations of oppression, poor diet, poor medical care....

I wish to make it clear that I in no way approve of the situation when I say it's not surprising - it's still appalling, tragic, and inexcusable.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by aerius »

Broomstick wrote: 2020-04-13 05:41amI think profits are down and these guys are angling for a big-buck bailout. Fuck 'em. Rolling shutdowns of slaughterhouses might be needed but that's a far cry from "there will be no more meat".
The main problem isn't the slaughterhouses shutting down, it's the effects further up supply chain which have the potential to break things in a bad.

This is not the 1940s where we have pigs & other animals running around in fields and then when the time is right they get rounded up and sent to the slaughterhouses. A slaughterhouse shutdown back then means the pigs stay in their fields and the farmers stop breeding new ones for a while, and when things pick up again they start sending them off to be slaughtered and start breeding new ones.

These days we have mass factory farming operations, there are no fields, the pigs get shifted from one set of pens to the next as they grow up and every day 5000 or however many pigs get sent off for slaughter. The pens get washed out, next set of pigs go in, and the production line continues. It's a tightly scheduled operation from the time the piglets are born to when they're sent off to become food. There's no place to put the pigs if enough slaughterhouses close down, they'll have to euthanize and dispose of them and if that happens the entire chain breaks down. That's when "no more meat" happens, at least not until there's enough time to breed & grow new ones.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Another side effect of COVID-19:

This was the first March in the US since 2002 without a single school shooting.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by loomer »

madd0ct0r wrote: 2020-04-13 04:46pm
BAME are disproprtionetly showing up in the UK stats too. Current physiological theory is link to genetic diabetes, current sociological theory is larger mixed generation households makes the virus more likely to find vulnerable people. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... -people-uk
Yeah, it's in the evidence out of pretty much everywhere that's keeping track of patient ethnicity. I'm not sure if I buy the genetic diabetes component being one of the main factors since the bigger sociological angle has to include the higher propensity of all the exact comorbid conditions that raise COVID-19 mortality rates, most of which aren't actually genetically linked, but either way the virus is killing the marginalized more. But that's exactly what we'd expected to see, unfortunately.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by The Romulan Republic »

The Fuhrer claims he has absolute authority as President, and can dictate when states reopen. Governors tell him to go fuck himself:

https://cbc.ca/news/world/coronavirus-t ... -1.5530731
U.S. President Donald Trump claimed the authority Monday to decide how and when to reopen the economy after weeks of tough social distancing guidelines aimed at fighting the new coronavirus. But governors from both parties were quick to push back, noting they have the primary constitutional responsibility for ensuring public safety in their states and would decide when it's safe to begin a return to normal operations.

Democratic leaders in the Northeast and along the West Coast announced separate state compacts to co-ordinate their efforts to scale back stay-at-home orders or reopen businesses on their own timetables, even as Trump tried to say it's his call.

"When somebody is president of the United States, the authority is total," Trump said at Monday's White House coronavirus briefing. "The governors know that."

But he offered no specifics about the source of his authority or his plan to reopen the economy.

Anxious to put the twin public health and economic crises behind him, Trump has backed federal social distancing recommendations that expire at the end of the month. But it has been governors and local leaders who have instituted mandatory restrictions, including shuttering schools and closing non-essential businesses.

Taking to Twitter, Trump wrote that some are "saying that it is the Governors decision to open up the states, not that of the President of the United States & the Federal Government. Let it be fully understood that this is incorrect ... it is the decision of the President, and for many good reasons."

Trump can use his bully pulpit to pressure states to act or threaten them with consequences, but the Constitution gives public health and safety responsibilities primarily to state and local officials.

'The house is still on fire'
Meanwhile, the president's guidelines have little force. Governors and local leaders have issued orders that carry fines or other penalties, and in some jurisdictions extend out into the early summer.

"All of these executive orders are state executive orders and so therefore it would be up to the state and the governor to undo a lot of that," New Hampshire Republican Gov. Chris Sununu said on CNN.

Pennsylvania Gov. Tom Wolf, a Democrat, told reporters on a conference call that until people are healthy, reopening the economy's "not going to work."

A patient arrives in an ambulance cared for by medical workers wearing personal protective equipment outside NYU Langone Medical Center in New York City on Monday. (John Minchillo/Associated Press)
"Seeing how we had the responsibility for closing the state down, I think we probably have the primary responsibility for opening it up," he added.

Wolf joined governors in New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Delaware and Rhode Island in agreeing to co-ordinate their actions. The governors of California, Oregon and Washington announced a similar pact. While each state is building its own plan, the three West Coast states have agreed to a framework saying they will work together, put their residents' health first and let science guide their decisions.

New Jersey Gov. Phil Murphy stressed the efforts would take time.

Members of the Florida National Guard assist medical personnel at a COVID-19 drive-thru swab testing site in Jacksonville, Fla., on Monday. (Bob Self/Florida Times-Union Via AP)
"The house is still on fire," he said on a conference call with reporters. "We still have to put the fire out, but we do have to begin putting in the pieces of the puzzle that we know we're going to need ... to make sure this doesn't reignite."

Though Trump abandoned his goal of rolling back social distancing guidelines by Sunday, he has been itching to reopen an economy that has dramatically contracted as businesses have shuttered, leaving millions of people out of work and struggling to obtain basic commodities. The closure has also undermined Trump's reelection message, which hinged on a booming economy.

Trump's claim that he could force governors to reopen their states represents a dramatic shift in tone. For weeks now, Trump has argued that states, not the federal government, should lead the response to the crisis. And he has refused to publicly pressure states to enact stay-at-home restrictions, citing his belief in local control of government.

A worker sprays disinfectant on a walkway area in front of a grocery store in Dallas on Monday. (LM Otero/Associated Press)
While Trump can use his daily White House briefings and Twitter account to try to shape public opinion and pressure governors to bend to his will, "there are real limits on the president and the federal government when it comes to domestic affairs," John Yoo, a University of California at Berkeley law school professor, said on a recent Federalist Society conference call.

"The government doesn't get opened up via Twitter. It gets opened up at the state level," Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, a Democrat, said.

Mississippi Republican Gov. Tate Reeves, a supporter of Trump, said the question of when to lift restrictions would be "a joint effort" between Washington and the states.

Trump says won't fire Fauci
Talk about how and when to reboot the nation's economy has come as Trump has bristled at criticism that he was slow to respond to the virus and that lives could have been saved had social distancing recommendations been put in place sooner.

Trump acted on March 16 to recommend nationwide social distancing measures to slow the spread of the virus, but had spent much of February and early March suggesting the outbreak was well under control and would swiftly pass.

His administration also waited until March to make widespread purchases of protective supplies and needed ventilators. Those were critical days that experts and even some administration officials acknowledged represented a missed opportunity to get ahead of the virus.


People practice social distancing as they line up outside a supermarket in Washington D.C. on Monday. (Manuel Balce Ceneta/Associated Press)
Trump defended the pace of his response, saying he couldn't have issued guidelines that would have had dire economic consequences until the virus began spreading rapidly in the U.S.

"We did the right thing and our timing was very good," Trump said. The pandemic has infected more than 680,000 and killed more than 23,500 in the U.S.

The president sought to persuade the public to look past his comments playing down the threat of the virus and to dismiss comments, including those by Fauci, that more could have been done. He also said he had no plans to fire Fauci.

Dr. Anthony Fauci, left, speaks about the coronavirus as Trump looks on in the James Brady Press Briefing Room at the White House on Monday. (Alex Brandon/Associated Press)
On Sunday, Fauci was asked if the U.S. could have saved lives by acting sooner. He responded that "obviously, you could logically say that if you had a process that was ongoing and you started mitigation earlier, you could have saved lives. Obviously, no one is going to deny that. But what goes into those kinds of decisions is complicated."

Trump responded by reposting a tweet that referenced Fauci's comments and included the line "Time to #FireFauci," raising alarms that Trump might consider ousting the doctor. Fauci, 79, has served in both Democratic and Republican administrations and has emerged as one of the most recognizable and trusted faces of the federal government's response.

Fauci said Monday that Trump followed his recommendations to contain the spread of the coronavirus and that the two men were on the same page. He sought to clarify his previous comments, saying that "hypothetical questions sometimes can get you into some difficulty" and that he did not intend to imply "maybe somehow something was at fault here."

Fauci said he and Dr. Deborah Birx, who is leading the White House coronavirus response, went to the president twice to discuss strong social distancing guidelines that have led to a dramatic economic shutdown. He said Trump gave his assent both times.

Medical workers at Jackson Memorial Hospital transport packages of freshly made meals provided by local restaurant for the workers in Miami on Monday. (Lynne Sladky/Associated Press)
Fauci said that when he and Birx recommended that the country needed another 30 days of social distancing after the initial 15 days, "Obviously, there were people who had a problem with that because of the potential secondary effects. Nonetheless, at that time, the president went with the health recommendation."

Trump has complained to aides and confidants about Fauci's positive media attention and his willingness to contradict the president in interviews and from the briefing room stage, according to two Republicans close to the White House. They spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss internal conversations.

Trump has told aides that he knows blowback to removing Fauci would be fierce and that — at least for now — he is stuck with the doctor. He has, on more than one occasion, however, urged that Fauci be left out of task force briefings or have his speaking role curtailed, according to the Republicans.
It has crossed my mind that these compacts between Democratic state governors to handle the coronavirus independently of Trump's decrees, could lay the groundwork for/be adapted into the basis of an alliance to resist Trump and establish an alternative government if he tries to overturn the election results.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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The Romulan Republic
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Canada and US are discussing when to reopen the border. The argument appears to be over whether to extend the initial 30 day shutdown, due to expire April 19th, by two weeks or by another thirty days:

https://theglobeandmail.com/politics/ar ... urces-say/
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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